Fixed vs Folder dive knifes

[det4220]

I wouldn't go so far as to say Titanium is worthless, but it is all what you value in a dive knife. There is no question that H1 and X15 beat out Ti, even Beta Ti, in edge holding/ wear resistance. These 2 materials are also resistant to "micro-chipping" that happens when stainless steels rust out microscopically at the edge creating a dull feeling knife. If you do not use a knife while fiving a lot, then Ti is fine, as it will never rust and requires absolutely no care on your part. I do feel that H1 is the same way, but there are no current production H1 fixed blade knives suitable for diving (although Spyderco is supposed to have one out shortly). X15 beats out even H1 is edge holding and wear resistance, but can't quite match it in corrosion resistance. It's all about compromise. If there was one material that did it all, all of the knife companies would be using it.

If going for a Ti knife, I would defineatly make sure to get a serrated edge as that will help cut even when the knife is a little dull.

[teog]

Interesting, who makes H1 and x15 bladed dive knifes?

[marchand]

Benchmade makes a dive knife and a line cutter with the X15 alloy. Spyderco makes a few folders with the H1 alloy. In my opinion Benchmade makes better quality knives. MSRP for the Benchmade knife is $130 and for the line cutter is $53.
knife
line cutter

You can find better prices if you look around. I think I saw the knife for $100 and the line cutter for $35 a while back.

[marchand]

Found the lower prices on the knife and line cutter.

knife $95
line cutter $36

[teog]

Originally Posted by marchand

Benchmade makes a dive knife and a line cutter with the X15 alloy. Spyderco makes a few folders with the H1 alloy. In my opinion Benchmade makes better quality knives. MSRP for the Benchmade knife is $130 and for the line cutter is $53.
knife
line cutter

You can find better prices if you look around. I think I saw the knife for $100 and the line cutter for $35 a while back.

Ohh the old who is better spyderco or benchmade.
Im sure you'll find for every benchmade person there is some one who prefers a sypdie over on bladesforum.com. I have both, but also tend to prefer my Benchmade 710d2.

Im familiar with the benchmadedive knife. By the way newgraham has the best price and service when it comes to knives.

[Znaught]

Titanium is no good for knives. It dulls really fast and is hard to get a good edge on it.

Nonsense. I've refuted your spurious claim before in another thread --> A knife so sharp...

Some titanium blades are (dramatically) better than others. Titanium blades with superior edge retention are made of a beta alloy and not the more widely produced and less expensive alpha-beta alloy of 6Al-4V, aka "grade 5". Wenoka/Deep See makes an excellent and affordable BC knife made of beta alloy titanium. Ocean Master makes several as well, and in my experience very high quality ones at that.

In general, a high quality dive knife with a beta alloy titanium blade will have similar cutting ability and endurance as conventional dive knives made with martensitic stainless alloys, e.g. 420, 440, but with less weight and ZERO maintenance requirements (because titanium is impervious to corrosion). Thus, a quality titanium dive knife can serve just as well as a conventional stainless steel dive knife, and in some respects even better. A quality titanium dive knife needn't be expensive either. LeisurePro sells the Wenoka/Deep See BC knife I mentioned for as little as $36.95.

What det4220 said, "it is all what you value in a dive knife.", is quite correct. Newer alloys of stainless steel, like H1 and X15, can offer better corrosion resistance compared to conventional martensitic stainless alloys and increased hardness than beta alloy titanium. Thus, if hardness is the most important characteristic for someone shopping for a dive knife, then H1 or X15 based dive knives would be a good choice. Unfortunately, there are few dive knives (or diving suitable) made of these alloys that are currently available. If corrosion resistance (i.e. lack of maintenance) or a lack of weight is of higher priority, then beta alloy titanium is unrivaled. It all depends on what is important to the diver. However, all of these differences really seem to be more academic than pragmatic. Any of these alloys will perform more than adequately for a diver. Ironically, I've used my dive knives most often as tools for preparing lunch during a surface interval, e.g. making a sandwich. I think it's safe to say that all dive knives are quite capable of doing that.

[Duckydiver]

Someone metioned sheares. Thats what I uses along with a short dive knife, I think its made by deep sea. EMS sheares are cheep and If I loose it I won't care much.

[marchand]

Originally Posted by Znaught

Nonsense. I've refuted your spurious claim before in another thread --> A knife so sharp...

Some titanium blades are (dramatically) better than others. Titanium blades with superior edge retention are made of a beta alloy and not the more widely produced and less expensive alpha-beta alloy of 6Al-4V, aka "grade 5". Wenoka/Deep See makes an excellent and affordable BC knife made of beta alloy titanium. Ocean Master makes several as well, and in my experience very high quality ones at that.

In general, a high quality dive knife with a beta alloy titanium blade will have similar cutting ability and endurance as conventional dive knives made with martensitic stainless alloys, e.g. 420, 440, but with less weight and ZERO maintenance requirements (because titanium is impervious to corrosion). Thus, a quality titanium dive knife can serve just as well as a conventional stainless steel dive knife, and in some respects even better. A quality titanium dive knife needn't be expensive either. LeisurePro sells the Wenoka/Deep See BC knife I mentioned for as little as $36.95.

What det4220 said, "it is all what you value in a dive knife.", is quite correct. Newer alloys of stainless steel, like H1 and X15, can offer better corrosion resistance compared to conventional martensitic stainless alloys and increased hardness than beta alloy titanium. Thus, if hardness is the most important characteristic for someone shopping for a dive knife, then H1 or X15 based dive knives would be a good choice. Unfortunately, there are few dive knives (or diving suitable) made of these alloys that are currently available. If corrosion resistance (i.e. lack of maintenance) or a lack of weight is of higher priority, then beta alloy titanium is unrivaled. It all depends on what is important to the diver. However, all of these differences really seem to be more academic than pragmatic. Any of these alloys will perform more than adequately for a diver. Ironically, I've used my dive knives most often as tools for preparing lunch during a surface interval, e.g. making a sandwich. I think it's safe to say that all dive knives are quite capable of doing that.

Yeah, but titanium is extremely brittle making it less suitable for prying. It is easier to chip a titanium blade. You say that Titanium has zero maintenance requirements, but, for people who actually use there knives, it dulls fast and is hard to get a good edge on it. You will have to sharpen a titanium knife more often than a knife made with a high quality steel, and the edge will never be as nice as a steel edge. I don't know about most people but I need to trust my knife to cut when I need it to cut, and I want it to cut fast.

[Znaught]

titanium is extremely brittle making it less suitable for prying.

Marchand, you have a penchant for superlative language and unjustified generalization. As a rule, it is inaccurate to say that titanium is brittle, let alone "extremely" brittle. Brittleness depends on many factors, including alloy type, ambient temperature, crystalline microstructure, among other factors. In fact, contrary to being brittle, many titanium alloys are known for being quite elastic and have been widely used to make springs. Hardly an application for a brittle material.

Simply put, some titanium-based alloys can be thought of as be brittle, depending on the application, crystalline microstructure, alloy type, ambient temperature, etc. However, a beta alloy's property of having increased strength and hardness at the expense of reduced ductility is seen in iron-based alloys (e.g. martensitic steel) as well. Thus, brittleness is an aspect of all materials suitable for knives. As a point of interest, many titanium alloys are actually much less brittle than cutlery grades of steel. As far as knives are concerned, a beta alloy titanium knife blade will be less ductile than an alpha-beta alloy blade (which is not an ideal knife blade alloy), but certainly not brittle to the point of being unusable as a knife.

...for people who actually use there (sic) knives, it dulls fast and is hard to get a good edge on it.

Your implication that I don't use my knives is unwarranted and ill conceived. I use my titanium knives extensively and have never had to even sharpen them. However, I use my knives as they were intended: to cut things, not to pry things apart (get a crowbar for that), not to dig holes (get a shovel for that), not to drive nails (get a hammer for that), etc. You seem so convinced as to the susceptibility of titanium knives to dulling and to chipping or breaking the blades that I can't help but wonder how you've used them. Maybe you ought to examine how you've used titanium dive knives instead of categorically condemning them outright. In my experience, a beta alloy titanium dive knife is at least as sharp and durable as conventional stainless dive knives, when used appropriately.

[CaribbeanDiver]

in over 100 dives, I have never had the occasion to use a knife but I will agree that if that time comes it is best to have a knife that is accessible. I have a winoka squeeze lock titanium and a folding scuba max that is also titanium.
I know they will cut a line if I got entangled and I dont care if they hold an edge, I am not cooking while diving, I only carry the knife as a precaution.
I have and had SS knives in in salt water use, they rust in a heartbeat. Titanium does not rust, even after a week of diving (20-25 dives) without rinsing them even once.
I think a folding knife does have some inherit problems. I agree that when you need your knife, it is best not to have to fumble with it. the folding knife I have has a line cutter on the outside so it doesnt have to be opened to cut line. Plus it has a lanyard on it and if I had to pull it out of the sheath, I would be sure and take the lanyard out first to slip over my wrist before unsheathing the knife.
Short story, you want something accessible. You want something that will not rust. If you dive salt, get titanium, if you want something small and out of the way, get something for your BCD. If you dont wear gloves, usually, a small handled knife is fine.