Should more dives be required for AOW?

[Birdman7]

It seems like there's a lot of people out there just going out and getting their OW and a month or 2 later getting their AOW. Do you think the rules/guidelines should be stricter about this or what's your opinion?

[cummings66]

Yes, I think AOW should contain more info than it currently does. In a way it's a give me class as it stands right now and you're no better off after it than you were before.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>In fact, I think OW shouldhave theAOW/Rescue content included.</DIV>

[CompuDude]

I think there is an industry-wide problem with the nomenclature.

"Advanced" is not a term that should applied to divers with under 20 dives, no matter how fast you learn. (Frequently it should not be applied to divers with a lot more than 20, either, I just picked a random low number as an example.)

It can be a good class, and can often give extra, instructor-supervised dives to new divers who really need more instruction and guidance before being turned out on their own. This is invaluable.

But calling some of those divers "advanced", who frequently have never had a single dive outside of class, is just ridiculous.

I'm all for additional supervised dives for new divers. I really think that "advanced" classes should be reserved for divers with at least 20 dives (giving them ~15 dives outside of a class), and Rescue at least 20 dives after that.

Rescue is a tougher call, because it is a phenomenal class that even less-experienced divers can get a lot out of. But I still think you'll gain more from the rescue class with enough experience under your belt to be less concerned with diving basics and more concerned with the new knowledge and skills.

[Vercingetorix]

Oh good...another thread on should OW or AOW require more dives? And what does "advanced" mean? Well...what does "advanced" mean? What is your definition? What is mine? In the end, we'll agree to disagree. In general, those with many dives and years will state that standards need to be tougher; those with fewer will say it's just about right.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>As of this writing, I have 15 dives. I have NAUI AOW and will subject my ego to Rescue during this weekend at CSSP. By Labor Day, I'll have about 35 dives. Do I consider myself an "advanced" diver? Compared to the OW students at CSSP this weekend, I am advanced. Compared to Woody (my Rescue instructor), Ken (my Rescue DM) and Platy (DM-candidate), I am a rank beginner.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>According to Jeff, my NAUI AOW instructor, I have demonstrated sufficient skills to classified as a NAUI Advanced Scuba Diver. So, according to NAUI standards, I am "Advanced".</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Bottom line: each person must decide for him/herself...what is Advanced?</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>cummings66 suggested that Rescue be included in OW. NAUI agrees. A rescue is included in every NUI course, including OW and AOW.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Finally, every NAUI instructor reminds his OW graduates that OW is a "learner's permit" to scuba. Before they can be considered proficient, more training (AOW and Rescue) and experience are required.</DIV>

[jacewindu]

based on experience, and some of the 'advanced' divers i've seen - i think it really depends upon the person, but is padi, or any other organization, going to individually screen each person? advanced is just a class, an advanced diver is someone who has a solid grasp of lots of skills

[Joew]

I agree with Compudude. An AOW class can be a great way for a new diver to improve their skills with instructor supervision. We just need to keep in mind that "advanced" doesn't necessarily mean advanced.

[cummings66]

My padi OW course included some basic rescue skills, not the whole thing certainly nor enough to show me that it really is a class every single diver out there should take.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I'll take the time now and tell you there are things out there that I did not in my wildest dreams imagine could get me, that is until I took the class and found there were so many things I had not even begun to think of.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I certainly don't know the half of it now I'm sure, but I do have a few more things to pull out of my bag of tricks now.</DIV>

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by jacewindu

advanced is just a class, an advanced diver is someone who has a solid grasp of lots of skills

Originally Posted by Joew

I agree with Compudude. An AOW class can be a great way for a new diver to improve their skills with instructor supervision. We just need to keep in mind that "advanced" doesn't necessarily mean advanced.

Well said.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>As I new diver, with only five dives under supervision, I took AOW (with Jeff Walters) to get more experience under supervision. I wasn't doing it for the card. In fact, had ScubaToys offered a dive package entitled "Weekend Divingwitha NAUI Instructor or DM", which would have offered six dives (including night dive) on a weekend whereby the instructor would work with me to improve my skills, I would have taken that. I'm here the education, not the certification.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Ya know...Joe, Larry, Greg W. might want to consider such a package deal. I'm certain there's an instructor or DM who might be interested. They would just have to ensure that they are covered by ST liability insurance or private insurance.</DIV>

[Birdman7]

The main reason I started this is because I've noticed on dive boats where there maybe be single divers and so the DM try to match the divers together. Some of the time they'll try to match a AOW with OW just so the AOW person who is suppose to have better knowledge or whatever so that they better watch over the OW diver. Which kind of makes me wander what if the AOW person is "that guy" who got the AOW as an achievement/bragging rights and only has b/w 15-20 half of which are training dives which were supervised. The diver thinks he knows all of what's going on just cuz of the cert card he has. Now I'm not saying any of you people are "that guy". I'm just saying wouldn't that make you worried that you may be the person matched up with this guy and having your life possibly in his hands.

P.S. Sorry if this doesn't make any sense I was having problems trying to make it make sense.

[ertechsg]

Advanced? So by some of your standards I can make DMby just taking classes.No way there should be a set # of dive and dive locations not just CSSP, TRAVIS.I'd hate to see someone with OW, AOW, RESCUEect jump off a boat in the ocean and get caught in an up currentat 90 ftand forget to ....... on the way up. None of these class or certifcations can count forbeing in differant dive situations.So yea there needs to be atleast a limited #of dives in differant conditions.