Divemaster/Instructor liability insurance?

[jo8243]

I am considering taking a PADI DM course and have a question concerning liability. As a DM (or instructor), you are taking on some liability for the safety of any students or other divers you are assisting (regardless of signed waivers -- they have been overturned in court before). In our "place-the-blame on someone" society, we all know how common lawsuits for damages are. Do those of you who are DMs or Instructors carry any type of liability insurance specifically designed for DMs or Instructors? If so, how much does it cost and who is the provider and how much coverage are you provided with?

Thanks

[WV Diver]

The agency you cert with should offer the insurance. How much it will cost I am not sure as mine is paid for me and I never see a bill. I think most LDS's or dive ops will cover you as long as you are acting on their behalf (same deal I have). As a free agent, I wouldn't want to venture a guess. I'm sure there are those that can post that information here.

[Desert_Diver]

Originally Posted by jo8243

I am considering taking a PADI DM course and have a question concerning liability. As a DM (or instructor), you are taking on some liability for the safety of any students or other divers you are assisting (regardless of signed waivers -- they have been overturned in court before). In our "place-the-blame on someone" society, we all know how common lawsuits for damages are. Do those of you who are DMs or Instructors carry any type of liability insurance specifically designed for DMs or Instructors? If so, how much does it cost and who is the provider and how much coverage are you provided with?

Thanks

I think PADI offers DM insurance for about $200 per year. I'm not certain about insurance for instructors but my guess is that it's more expensive. I believe the DM insurance is "secondary" insurance. In other words, you make up the difference between the judgement and what the instructor's insurance covers.

I took the DM course and then elected not to certify. I found out that there have been lawsuits involving DMs when they were on vacation and just happened to be on a dive with someone who encountered difficulties. Not buddies. Not employees of the dive op. Just there at the same time.

I thought the knowledge portion of the DM class was well worth it. The rescue scenario is just the rescue diver course with more bells and whistles.

But having the card has a number of downsides and the upsides were much more limited than I realized when I started the course. I don't regret it at all. I'm just glad I found out some of the legal details before I actually sent the application in.

Art

[CompuDude]

Vicencia & Buckley provides professional liability insurance to PADI DMs and Instructors. Basic coverage is $325 per year.

https://diveinsuranceapps.com/form.php

If you plan to work, I'd recommend it.

[dludwig]

Is there that much of a benefit to being a Dive Master? I really don't get what the attraction is. Sounds like insurance etc. keeps the cost going up. I think I would rather spend that money on diving and/or equipment

[WV Diver]

Originally Posted by dludwig

Is there that much of a benefit to being a Dive Master? I really don't get what the attraction is. Sounds like insurance etc. keeps the cost going up. I think I would rather spend that money on diving and/or equipment

I guess for most it is a means to and end. It has been my experience that DM's mostly consist if those on their way to being instructors. I think there are probably more instructors than DMs and among those DMs most are on their way to instructor. Those DMs who don't go the instructor route mostly did it for the training.

I have been a DM for a while and really enjoyed the training. I like working with classes but I think I might be in the minority among DMs as I will probably not go the instructor route. I got into the DM program because I needed to do it for work and the training was paid for. I have always been comfortable with my diving skills and would probably never have forked out the bucks to do it otherwise.

[jo8243]

Originally Posted by Desert_Diver

I found out that there have been lawsuits involving DMs when they were on vacation and just happened to be on a dive with someone who encountered difficulties. Not buddies. Not employees of the dive op. Just there at the same time.

I've heard this too. Is this commonplace or one isolated incident?

[Desert_Diver]

Originally Posted by jo8243

I've heard this too. Is this commonplace or one isolated incident?

I don't remember the specifics of the DM story.

I have heard about a local instructor/LDS owner who was sued over a death. The deceased was his dive buddy. The dive did not involve any instruction or course work, just a "for-fun" dive. Eventually the insurance company settled the suit out of court. I don't know for how much but I got the impression it was for less than the damages stated in the law suit.

How often does it happen? I'm not sure. I get the impression the insurance companies don't like to talk about it, and certainly don't advertise the statistics.

Art

[PhantomCat]

[/quote]

I think PADI offers DM insurance for about $200 per year. I'm not certain about insurance for instructors but my guess is that it's more expensive. I believe the DM insurance is "secondary" insurance. In other words, you make up the difference between the judgement and what the instructor's insurance covers.


Art[/quote]
Sadly Art this is not the case. PADI requires that DM's carry thier own insurance if they are teaching, the insurance of the instructor they are assisting DOES NOT extend to the DM/AI. Also should note that once you start insurance coverage, you need to maintain it! The insurance only covers you at the time the lawsuit is brought to bear.

For example if you had insurance 2 years ago, but are not teaching anymore so let it lapse. Then a former student sues. You are not covered!
Only in America !
PC

[Dive-aholic]

Most certifying agencies require DMs through instructors to carry liability insurance in order for them to teach and assist with teaching in the US. If you don't have it, you can't do it. V&B charges in the $320 range for DMs and $600 range for instructors. There is a slightly less expensive alternative - Witherspoon & Associates. There's not much of a difference in the DM rates, but instructors pay about $100 less a year for the same insurance. Plus the customer service is so much better.

As for true liability, you can dive with whoever you want as a buddy. You should not be held accountable as a professional. The only case I've heard of that went to court involved a guy who ran a shop out of his basement. He was doing instruction for the deceased. The deceased had signed the waivers. However, that doesn't stop the family from suing. The instructor ended up losing his shop, etc. I don't know the specifics of the case or even if he was responsible for the death, but it did cost him time and money being involved in the case.

Incidents like these are rare. For the most part everyone dives and has a good time and that's it. For people who are prudent and conduct themselves as they should, liability shouldn't be a big concern.