Dive Instructors

[dutchman]

Wanted to know why instructors decide to go it alone. Is it because the LDS put to many constraint's on you. The liability issue must be greater when you are alone verses being part of a LDS. It seems most charge less than the LDS for certifications. Comments? Signed curious.

[ScubaToys Larry]

I can't answer much of your question - because I work in a shop . But from an insurance standpoint - it really normally makes no difference. Most instructors are independent contractors and are responsible for their own insurance and it costs the same if you are a solo instructor or in a small shop, or a shop of 100 instructors. All the folks will pay the same amount.

The only difference is some of the insurance agencies do allow a group policy for the shop, where they fall under one larger policy - but the shops that do that are pretty far and few between according to our insurance guy. We do it - but not many shops do.

So I'd say the insurance does not play in much. I think you will find the difference in pricing is due to the fact a shop is in business to make money. They have expenses... and they get a cut, the instructor gets a cut, books, cert cards, etc all come out.

So if there is a new independent instructor - and he wants to get his or her cert count up - many times - they will teach cheaper because they are not after a profit as much - and don't have the overhead of a shop.

But there are just some perspective thoughts from someone who is a shop owner... I'll leave it to the independents to share their thoughts.

[Dive-aholic]

Well, if I was in the Dallas area, I might teach for ScubaToys. But the shop I taught for wanted me to push their small line of gear. Personally, I didn't think much of their gear. The gear they tried to push may have been the money maker for them, but it was substandard IMO. I also didn't like being put into a 30' x 15' pool with another instructor and 12 students. That environment just doesn't lend itself to learning how to dive.

As Larry already stated, the liability is the same, for the most part. Most shops contract their instructors and the instructors have to carry their own liability insurance. I felt more liability contracting for a shop because I was being told how to do things that I felt weren't exactly safe - like taking too many students into open water considering the conditions. Sure, we were within standards, but I didn't feel that bringing 8 students into 10-15' of visibility was safe and didn't want to do it. I also didn't want to be told that I had to certify students if I didn't feel they were ready to be certified. (Only happy, certified students buy gear.)

Why do I charge less than most LDSs? Because I don't have the overhead they do. I can charge less and still make more than I was making when I was contracted with a shop. In fact, I make the more training 2 open water students on my own than I did training 8 open water students for a shop.

Oh, and let's not forget that I'm much happier now. I get to actually teach student divers to dive in a horizontal position without touching the bottom, not how to deal with issues while planted firmly on the bottom on their knees. I'd like to see those divers deal with a problem on a wall that bottoms out at 400'.

I'll step off the soap box now...

[cudachaser]

The LDS are notably not nice to their instructors, want too much alliance to their cause, do not respect the instructors individuality, push sales way too much.

I've been independent since 1982...though I work thru an LDS that has an attitude..."You teach the classes...we'll sell the equipment. Just tell your students to check us out first".

I work very hard to direct students their way and their sales have beat all this year.

I'm just honest with the students...If they choose Divers Direct...Talk to "Robbie" about your deal, he can usually equal or better it. I tell my students about all the local LDS's and the mail order.

I have all my own equipment for teaching...I decide on where we go for open waters, my own pool arrangements and class arrangeemnts...so much less stressing

[dutchman]

Interesting. I would think a LDS operator would want to be your best friend. As previously stated, you are an independent contractor and can go where you want. If he does not have instructors to teach, he can not sell courses. Thus loss revenues.

[ScubaToys Larry]

I think that too many businesses don't realize what their greatest asset is... their customers. And they don't realize what their second greatest asset is.. the people they employ that service those customers. Some owners feel that they are doing a person a favor by employing them to wait their tables, serve their drinks, or teach their students, instead of feeling those employees are doing you a favor by helping promote your company.

[datamunk]

honestly, i hated working for the dive shop i was at. the owners worked in another store, and made it from a dive shop to a crap filled store. we sold dive stuff, surf boads, skate boards, clothes (a LOT of random and "stylish" stuff for guys and girls) shoes etc etc... i really didnt enjoy havin to sell skirts and skateboards, but whatever.

im thinking about getting my instructor cert, but, not sure. gonna try to get a few more dives under my belt

[freediver]

I managed a dive store for awhile and taught much as part of this. I think the culminating grief was when, during a conversation one day about sales/customers, the owner made the statement "My money is in their pocket". It made me feel that instead of building a genuine relationship with those that entered the store, I was challenged to see how much money I could separate from them.
Oddly, now as an independent instructor, I actually charge a bit more for the training. I am selective in who I teach, ie. I only teach those who want scuba training and I don't teach those that need to be certified for an upcoming trip to Cozumel in two weeks! I have redirected my focus on quality scuba instruction and not quantity scuba instruction. The latitude and flexibility this affords me is unmatched from my store affiliation days.

[Dive-aholic]

Originally Posted by ScubaToys Larry

I think that too many businesses don't realize what their greatest asset is... their customers. And they don't realize what their second greatest asset is.. the people they employ that service those customers. Some owners feel that they are doing a person a favor by employing them to wait their tables, serve their drinks, or teach their students, instead of feeling those employees are doing you a favor by helping promote your company.

This is why you have such a successful business, Larry. Fortunately for you, not a whole lot of people get that. However, that's unfortunate for those of us not near you. But at least we can still order stuff.

[ian]

Originally Posted by ScubaToys Larry

I think that too many businesses don't realize what their greatest asset is... their customers. And they don't realize what their second greatest asset is.. the people they employ that service those customers. Some owners feel that they are doing a person a favor by employing them to wait their tables, serve their drinks, or teach their students, instead of feeling those employees are doing you a favor by helping promote your company.

Originally Posted by Dive-aholic

This is why you have such a successful business, Larry. Fortunately for you, not a whole lot of people get that. However, that's unfortunate for those of us not near you. But at least we can still order stuff.

Diveaholic beat me to it.

Larry, that concept is the key to why ANY business could succeed long term.

This forum proves the point, too!

And, yeah, I hate to see so many posters quoting so much of previous posts. However, in this case, thsi should be quoted often, printed up and hung on the walls of businesses everywhere. The ULITMATE statement of Capitalism.