Minimum Number of Logged Dives before Dive Master / Open Water Instructor

[DiveSooner]

Hello fellow divers:

Here is that age old question, "What is the minimum number of logged dives a Dive Master / Open Water Instructor should have before being responsble for others?"

I am not asking should certain organizations re-evaluate there standards, but what are the opinions of divers in general.

I have been holding off getting my DM until now, I have 200+ logged dives and I believe that if I am going to be responsible for somebody elses well being, I wanted experience in as many different scenrios as possible before taking the next step.

Some people are book smart, some learn from the school of hard knocks and experience. Both only make you a better diver.

I have been involved in several training classes with several instructors and learned different methods of training; course work, pool and open water.

I know divers that have completed the minimum required logged dives and have passed the OWI course, in less than a years time. Yes I understand that LDS want to test them out to make money off of them and in hopes they will generate more business for the LDS.

Again, I believe that I am ready to take the next step. I am thankful that my instructors all had well over the required amount, one in the 5,000+ mark. I don't believe that I would have felt comfortable in open water sessions with a DM / OWI that had the bare minimum or required logged dives.

Again, I'm not asking for organization bashing, but merely what do you believe is a good experience level.

Respectfully.

DiveSooner

[Puffer Fish]

It depends on the person and the type of dives they have... I had around 500 when I went for instructor...in a wide range of conditions... but in those days you had to be an assistant for at least a year. Is 200 enough... I would think so, if they were quality dives.

[DiveSooner]

Thank you for the reply and the input. Again, I am trying to be as generic as possible, but for me, hopefully from my thread you can tell that I'm conservative.

[NitroWill]

To me, I think the limits need to be raised. I dont feel 50-100 dives gives someone the experience, training, and rage of conditions that a divemaster should need.

I cant tell you how many times ive been on boats in all different areas with DMC's on boats who were a wreck. Ive seen DMCs who got in the water where there were strong currents - and they had no idea how to handle it. DMCs that had no idea how to react in possible emergencies. There has just been so many times when DMCs didnt have near the experience they should have to be assisting, helping, supervising, and leading other divers.

Does this mean that no diver with 50-100 dives could be a good divemaster? No, but I just feel that 50-100 dives isn't suitable to gain the real life experience in many different conditions to make you a good leader.

Ive been diving almost 5 years now with around 700 dives and I am just now going for my divemaster. Was I ready several hundred dives ago? Probably. But I want to be absolutely confident in my abilities and be the best I can to lead other divers.

[DiveSooner]

Those are my thoughts as well, Will. Thank you.

[in_cavediver]

Way back when, I started as a DMC with 25 dives. While doing the course, over about 9 months, I logged around 125-130 dives, took advanced nitrox, cavern and intro to cave. I finally got my card just before I left for my Full Cave class in July.

From my expierence, number of dives doesn't tell the whole story but PADI's min to start training of 20 for DM and 60 for OWSI is horribly low (cert at 60 for DM, 100 for OWSI). Looking back, I had no buisness thinking about taking care of uncerted divers at that point, but it was in standards and the norm.

My opinion, instructor certs should start being available around 150 dives or so with a checkout dive prior to starting the training. There are divers who will be ready at a 150 or so to teach and there are many who never will be ready. The only way to know is do a checkout dive or two to see where their personal skills are at. We all know if you can't dive yourself, how in the world can you take care of others while diving.

Of course, that runs counter to the industry norm and isn't profittable so it'll never happen.

[diversteve]

"What is the minimum number of logged dives a Dive Master / Open Water Instructor should have before being responsble for others?"

More than me...lol.

I'd take you seriously as a DM with 200 dives. With Rescue, CPR and other First Aid training also - whatever your agency offers. No need to collect cards beyond the ones that will be beneficial in your DM role however.

I think I'd like you in the 500 and up range to be my instructor. I can typically tell who's in the 500-1000 range on a boat by their gear familiarity and ease in the water. A good instructor needs to have confidence and the ability to impart their knowledge to others.

And it would be good if you've done more diverse diving i.e. ocean, in currents, lakes, quarry etc. with more dives in the conditions found in your area.

[DiveSooner]

Thank you in_cave for the reply. True. Everyone have there strong suits, some are better with the tables, some are better in the pool, and others need a little more time. Every dive is a different and curcimstances can arise, even at dive site you've dove several times. Be ready or the unexpected and quicky be ready to react. That's why I beleive that more dives and experience is preferable when your taking somebodys life into your hands. I not saying that 60 dives makes for a bad DM but one that is growing and learning as we all are.

[DiveSooner]

Thanks DiverSteve. Diver safety is number one.

[CompuDude]

If I was the one setting the standards, I'd say minimum 100 for DM, minimum 200 for Instructor. No starting the class until you meet the minimums. And I like the idea of a checkout dive, too.