DM Cert = More liability??

[georoc01]

I can tell you that my AOW instructors when not teaching dive on their PADI Master Diver card, not under their Instructor #. They don't want to be on the list as an instructor if something did go wrong.

[Kingpatzer]

Originally Posted by DivingCRNA

PADI standards only require insurance when leading PADI DM lead programs, and not when assisting an instructor or supervising certified divers. The do, however, recommend insurance in all circumstances.

Insurance isn't about meeting PADI standards, it's about making sure you can keep your savings, home and income when some lawyer tries to get ahold of you. If you are going to have the DM certification, then having insurance to cover any potential liability exposure is essential.

[CompuDude]

Originally Posted by Kingpatzer

Insurance isn't about meeting PADI standards, it's about making sure you can keep your savings, home and income when some lawyer tries to get ahold of you. If you are going to have the DM certification, then having insurance to cover any potential liability exposure is essential.

Agreed. In addition, while it is not "required" for you to have insurance while assisting a class (with an insured instructor), most instructor policies specifically exclude covering any DiveMasters, so while the instructor is covered in an accident, you are not... unless you buy your own policy. The cheaper "assisting-only" policy will suffice there, since you are not conducting programs on your own, but I decided it was worth it to me to spend the little extra to get a full policy so I never have to worry about it.

It's up to you if you want the full policy to cover you completely independently, but IMO, if you plan to work at all, even if it's not technically required, it would behoove you to be covered at least in the once circumstance where you are most likely to need it: A teaching scenario with untrained students.

[scubaculture]

Originally Posted by georoc01

I can tell you that my AOW instructors when not teaching dive on their PADI Master Diver card, not under their Instructor #. They don't want to be on the list as an instructor if something did go wrong.

I have heard a few horror stories about just that, they have a pleasure dive (as they should be allowed to!) something happens to a diver who is not their buddy and somehow it comes out that they are an instructor and they get into trouble for not helping out.

Will try find some old forum links about it

[WaScubaDude]

Great stuff. Love to hear about the "real world" situations

[DivingCRNA]

Originally Posted by georoc01

I can tell you that my AOW instructors when not teaching dive on their PADI Master Diver card, not under their Instructor #. They don't want to be on the list as an instructor if something did go wrong.

Heck, I just have rescue and master diver and use my AOW or EAN number when going on a guided dive on a trip. After I finish DM I will NOT flash the DM card when getting on a charter boat. No way.

I do not use DMs or instructors at home.

[CompuDude]

Originally Posted by scubaculture

I have heard a few horror stories about just that, they have a pleasure dive (as they should be allowed to!) something happens to a diver who is not their buddy and somehow it comes out that they are an instructor and they get into trouble for not helping out.

Will try find some old forum links about it

From a legal standpoint, I can tell you that in a diving accident where someone wants to sue, EVERYONE within 300' of that diver is going to get sued. Most will be dropped, but the general method is a scattergun approach to make sure you don't miss anyone. Once discovery starts, it WILL easily be discovered (via subpoenas and/or various other litigation tools) if you are an instructor or not. So trying to "hide" the fact that you are instructor in this manner, for this reason, is simply a false peace of mind, but hey, whatever lets you sleep at night.

[ReefHound]

It may be discovered but it also demonstrates that you were not holding yourself out to others on the boat that you are a dm or instructor which could have a bearing on liability.

[CompuDude]

Originally Posted by ReefHound

It may be discovered but it also demonstrates that you were not holding yourself out to others on the boat that you are a dm or instructor which could have a bearing on liability.

Doubtful. The fact that you (theoretically) had the skills to assist and did not, or did not adequately, pretty much negates that argument.

You need to think like a plaintiff's lawyer, not use common sense, if you want to predict litigation outcomes. And in either case, you're already being sued... the difference is, if you have insurance, they're paying for the lawyers, not you.

[WaScubaDude]

Originally Posted by CompuDude

Doubtful. The fact that you (theoretically) had the skills to assist and did not, or did not adequately, pretty much negates that argument.

You need to think like a plaintiff's lawyer, not use common sense, if you want to predict litigation outcomes. And in either case, you're already being sued... the difference is, if you have insurance, they're paying for the lawyers, not you.

Having been in court, I will have to agree with compudude. A lawsuit, the trial, and proceedings have nothing to do with common sense. Has everything to do with how lawers on each side can twist information. I am imagining the cross examination..."so Mr. DM you were trained to handle said situation were you not?" and "you didn't even attempt to help in this situation!"