Too deep, too soon

[BouzoukiJoe]

I bet we all have read about people who have died because they went too deep, too soon. Either their training, their experience, or their equipment wasn't up to the task.

I notice that my LDS is scheduling a couple of wreck-diving charters to sites with the sand below 130 ft, e.g. the Naeco (125-145), the Tarpon (130-140), and the Yancey (120-160). Most of their charters are to wrecks in the 90-120 ft range, and new divers are definitely not very welcome.

It makes me wonder what's an appropriate schedule for training and diving that allows for the development of enough experience to dive some of these wrecks without going too deep, too soon. Many of these wrecks are 30-50 miles offshore so knowing what you are doing would be a very good thing indeed.

Perhaps this belongs in the tech forum but I wanted to put it here to recreational deep divers (oxymoron?) more of a chance to see it.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[mwhities]

I've done quite a few sites where it was WELL beyond my training (Only OW right now, so almost every site is.), but you don't have to go the sand at 130fsw. Just stay within your training and everything *should* be fine.

EDIT: I could go to the Oriskany (I thin 212fsw to the sand and 136fsw to the deck.) at any time and it's well beyond my training to go to the sand and flight desk. The bridge is in 60 - 90 fsw and is great for OW students.

[MLenyo]

you'd think people would be a little more cautious about going so deep with so little training. i've only been about 25 feet so thinking about going 100 or more kind of freaks me out.

[fireflock]

Joe-

I did this sequence when I moved back to NC and thought it was a good way to get into things. You can also just find some good mentors and work your way up with sites like the Hyde and Markham, Gill, Spar, and so on....as you feel comfortable. I bet you'll learn a ton this weekend.

Gypsy Divers Aquatic Center; Raleigh's Finest Family Aquatic Center

Rich

[Puffer Fish]

You raise an interesting issue.... when is "enough" training, or practice or dives?

I would have to say that there are several limiting factors:

1. Your comfort factor when diving, particularly if something goes wrong. This becomes more and more important as you go deeper.

2. How you handle yourself a depth (this varies a lot with people). Some people, when narc'ed just slow down a bit, some do other things.

3. The equipment you have and how well you can handle it. Do you have the proper gear? Proper safety and backup equipment?

4. How well you deal with issues (the mostly related to you and your buddy).

Most people learn the above items about themselves and diving gradually. Other seem to favor the "jump in" and if they live thru it, feel confident to keep going.

But where one draws the line.... don't know.

[MSilvia]

As I said in the Doria thread, assuming the diver isn't a reckless crazy person, a prudent plan might go something like this:

1. Get OW certified
2. Do 100-150 NDL dives, preferably in low visibility water with temperatures below 60 degrees F. Get AOW, EANx, and Rescue certified along the way. Consider Cavern training as an introduction to penetration/overhead diving if that interests you.
3. Practice diving in doubles with a drysuit, or at least carrying an deploying a stage-mounted AL40 as a "pony" and using redundant buoyancy. Get comfortable shooting a bag from depth, and using a reel.
4. Consider Advanced Nitrox/Deco training if you want to maximize your bottom time, and get some comfort with deco dives unless you want your dives to be "touch the wreck and head home". Naturally, Trimix training would help you stave off narcosis, and DPV training would be nice too.
5. Don't underestimate the value of contingency planning. Think a lot about "what if" scenarios and how to address them.

[in_cavediver]

I just want to add a couple things to what Matt so eloquently said.

1) Just because you have the card/training doesn't mean you should be there.

2) Just because you are comfortable at a specific depth doesn't mean its true for all environments. Each has its own requirements.

For instance, I wouldn't hesitate to do a 200'-250' cave dive. I am not comfortable beyond 150'-160' in the great lakes and in offshore saltwater, I'd prefer to stay in rec limits. It took me a while to build up to the those levels.

[fireflock]

For the sites listed in the first post, why would you recommend lots of experience in low viz with colder water? Last time I was on the NAECO you could see the wreck from the hang line (90 ft below) and I was warm in my 3mm suit.

Very few (if any) of the divers I've seen at sites like those asked about have anything like the set of gear and training you list. That includes the Captains and crew. I understand the list came up in a thread about the Doria, but it seems to be more than necessary for the dives we're talking about here.

One thing to point out is that most charters want you to be a quasi-regular offshore NC diver for those sites. Anyone who meets that qualification already has a number of dives in the 100-120' range.

Rich

[cummings66]

I would add to puffer fish's list when you have the understand of the risks and can honestly apply that knowledge to manage said risks. Understanding it is very important IMO. You can feel comfortable at a deep depth and yet be very dangerous and lucky to return, it's only with understanding that you become safe.

[whse56]

When it comes to depth everyone has there own comfort level, some think nothing of going to 130ft and staying for the max time. Others will go to the max and not enjoy it because of worry. Training is important and everyone should take whatever courses are available to increase our skill levels and practice them often. And always dive with a GOOD dive buddy that you trust with your life, as we all know the deeper we go the more important safety becomes, hence the importance of a good dive buddy.