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Clanggedin
03-09-2008, 16:04
Yesterday I visited some of the LDSs in my area shopping for a reg and octo. During my visits conversation would always turn to what type pf setup I have and when I mentioned BP/W and they automatically assumed that I was going cave diving and that I wanted to die. Never did I mention cave diving. I either said something about my BP/W or that I was going to use a long hose and the people at the shops would automatically place in the the tech diving category.

All I want to do is stay within recreational limits, yet use a more tech setup because I like it.

I told my brother that we should call ourselves techreational divers, and thought I had come up with something new, but after googling the term I realized that the term is not new, but I couldn't find a good definition of what techreational really means.


What is considered techreational? Can we use the term for the so called "new breed" of divers who use tech gear, yet stay within the recreational limits?

NoTime58
03-09-2008, 16:17
I keep coming across the same question at the dive shops I've been in "what kinda diving you doing". I usually respond with, "the kind where you get wet", then wait to see the look on there face before I tell them I have all kinds of interests and I'm looking for something that is compatible with, deep, wreck, drift, and reef diving. Never used the term "techreational" before, heard it, never used it.

WV Diver
03-09-2008, 17:00
Actually I am in this category and trying to decide what BP/W set up to go with. I like the configuration and ideology of the tech types but I won't likely be diving the Doria anytime soon.

Splitlip
03-09-2008, 17:22
BPW I don't believe is reserved for tech divers any more. I wear BPW, necklaced 2nd, gauges on my wrists, thigh pockets (just makes sense for me) and SPLIT fins.

Although somebody today did tell me I was looking pretty "teched out".

WV diver, a plate is pretty much a plate. A harness is pretty much a harness. Wings have subtle differences and it would be good to try different ones. Just don't over size it.
30# or so singles wing is probably a good first wing.

WV Diver
03-09-2008, 18:03
BPW I don't believe is reserved for tech divers any more. I wear BPW, necklaced 2nd, gauges on my wrists, thigh pockets (just makes sense for me) and SPLIT fins.

Although somebody today did tell me I was looking pretty "teched out".

WV diver, a plate is pretty much a plate. A harness is pretty much a harness. Wings have subtle differences and it would be good to try different ones. Just don't over size it.
30# or so singles wing is probably a good first wing.

That's what I am looking at. I notice there are a certain few suppliers that most tech folks like though, like DiveRite, Halcyon, Deep Sea Supplies, Oxycheq and one or two others. I wonder why I don't see too many of those techie types discussing Zeagle more often. From what I can see they seem to have a very large number of well adapted accessories made to configure with all their gear. They are the only ones I have seen so far that offer bladder rebuild kits.

I may be going that way unless someone can show me some light I can't see.

I'm not planning on doing a lot of deep dives or penetrating deep into wrecks or anything. I just want the buoyancy and trim that BP/W offer. I have been wearing a necklace and using wrist gadgets for a while and will likely ditch the split fins when I change over. They just don't go backwards. I may even get a 7' hose. I will definitely be using a pony.

Don't mean to Pirate this thread. I can start a new one if you want me to. Just say the word OP.

Splitlip
03-09-2008, 19:05
I have DiveRite plates. Aluminum for summer, steel for winter. They are lower profile than my hammer head. Oxycheq wings.

Why Zeagle and Apeks are not in the main stream, I cannot say. OMS is very popular with the North East wreck divers. Dive Rite among the non GUE cavers here with Oxycheq building a market share. Halcyon (owned by JJ) is popular among many of the GUE cavers. Open water divers I see a mix of all with the exception of DSS. They are more left coast I think.
By far, I still see primarily conventional BC's. Seaquest/USD, Scubapro and Zeagle.

cummings66
03-09-2008, 21:40
I think you can use the term how you want, it gets the point across though.

I've seen other dive shops think just because you have a BP/W that you're a technical diver, funny huh. They wouldn't have thought that in the 60's or 70's.

texdiveguy
03-09-2008, 22:52
I think all the diving most of us conduct is just recreational sport diving. The gear you chose to use does not dictate really if you are recreational only or rec/tech. I hear this same stuff at shops I go in....folks are just interested in what type of diving you do.

Scubastud16
03-09-2008, 23:31
I don't think there is much cross over between the two sides of diving. You can wear tech diving equipment in rec diving and use tech diving techniques in rec diving, but I don't think you can cross the two styles.

ianr33
03-10-2008, 09:19
I've always thought of "techreational" being that gray area between recreational and technical. (which are arbitrary names at best)

Most of my local dives are "techreational" 130 feet,maybe 140. Turn at 1500 psi in my doubles or max of 20 minutes deco on computer. Maybe use 100% O2 for a bit,maybe not.

Clearly not recreational but not really technical either.

Scubastud16
03-10-2008, 10:49
Ian,

If you go into deco, or go into an overhead environment, it's technical in my opinion. Long safety stop....I'll do that as a precaution when I have the extra gas or time, but if you're stoping on deco and using 100% o2, it's tech in my book. (Not trying to pick a fight, just sharing an opinion related to the thread).

texdiveguy
03-10-2008, 10:59
IMHO it's ALL 'recreational' diving first off....whether you are a O/W diver doing a reef at 60fsw on a single tank with air.....or me doing a trimix dive with multi deco/travel gases on a deep structure/reef. We are preforming these dives as recreation/sport. The technical side is an extension for some of us to our recreational diving. I don't belief in this 'gray' area definition...its all recreational IMO with technical training/skills/protocols for certain dive missions. :)

cummings66
03-11-2008, 07:36
but I don't think you can cross the two styles.

Sure you can, but it's not "required". Take the mentality. You can do that. Take the planning, you can do that. Take the stops, no reason you can't do that too. In short every aspect of technical diving can be done in recreatioal diving, but it doesn't have the same importance.

I'd venture a guess and say DIR divers come closest to diving that mentality in every dive.

I don't believe O2 makes a dive technical, you could penetrate a wreck and come back to the surface without needing deco for example.

BSea
03-11-2008, 08:10
You realize of course that if any PADI honcho sees this thread, then there will be a new class with a new card.:smiley5:

On the serious side, that's kind of how I look at it too. I've always liked the simplicity of a BP/W, and that's why I use it. I may or may not get more into technical diving, and if I do, then I'll at least have a good start the the gear.

Kingpatzer
03-11-2008, 09:16
tech-rec is the term in use around here. And maybe I'm lucky, but my LDS is very ok with folks in that category. PADI fun dives one weekend and deep tech dives the next are pretty much the norm around here. And their showroom contains everything from typical wrap-around vest BC's to holgarth set-ups and rebreathers and everything in between.

rfb3
03-11-2008, 09:28
Ian,

If you go into deco, or go into an overhead environment, it's technical in my opinion. Long safety stop....I'll do that as a precaution when I have the extra gas or time, but if you're stoping on deco and using 100% o2, it's tech in my book. (Not trying to pick a fight, just sharing an opinion related to the thread).


I agree. I recently read an article that says tech diving is any one of the three:

Overhead env diving
Mixed gas
Extended range (deco)

MSilvia
03-11-2008, 10:50
I don't think there is much cross over between the two sides of diving. You can wear tech diving equipment in rec diving and use tech diving techniques in rec diving, but I don't think you can cross the two styles.
No? Okay.. if I do a 120 foot recreational wreck dive, plan to keep in within NDL, but bring a contingency plan for decompression with my back gas if I decide to stay an extra 10 or 15 minutes, which "side" is that dive on? As I see it, any dive that requires a "safety stop" has a deco requirement, and is only different from a dive with a longer deco obligation in the length of the planned stop. If I think that the deco schedule for my stops is excruciatingly long and accelerate it by using a higher FO2 deco gas, I'm not sure that puts the dive in a different league.

As I see it, there aren't two sides, there are points on a continuum. One dive may be more technical than another, but I don't see it as either/or. Am I misunderstanding what you mean by "crossing the two styles"? I do dives like this pretty regularly.

rfb3
03-11-2008, 11:11
Technical diving - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_diving)

cummings66
03-11-2008, 12:36
I think Matt nailed what I was saying. He said it better than I did but that's what I was getting at.

I'll edit the Wiki page to reflect my viewpoint in a bit, too much stuff in there. I think it needs to be condensed. That by the way is the reason I don't like Wiki, it's a popular opinion not one of facts in some cases. I could delete every bit of that page and replace it with 3 lines and that'd be the new definition.

MSilvia
03-11-2008, 13:02
Long safety stop....I'll do that as a precaution when I have the extra gas or time, but if you're stoping on deco and using 100% o2, it's tech in my book.
So... if you do a 5 minute hang as a precaution, it's recreational, but if you do a 5 minute hang because it's required that's technical? I don't see the big division between the two, unless it's education and understanding.

I'll agree that EANx>40 "advanced nitrox" for accelerated decompression is a technical gas mix, but what if you deco on air?

rfb3
03-11-2008, 13:55
I think Matt nailed what I was saying. He said it better than I did but that's what I was getting at.

I'll edit the Wiki page to reflect my viewpoint in a bit, too much stuff in there. I think it needs to be condensed. That by the way is the reason I don't like Wiki, it's a popular opinion not one of facts in some cases. I could delete every bit of that page and replace it with 3 lines and that'd be the new definition.

Are these the three?

Overhead env diving
Mixed gas
Extended range (deco)

Scubastud16
03-11-2008, 15:21
As I see it, there aren't two sides, there are points on a continuum. One dive may be more technical than another, but I don't see it as either/or. Am I misunderstanding what you mean by "crossing the two styles"? I do dives like this pretty regularly.

I think there is a misunderstanding. What I was trying to say is that techniques, equipment, mentalities, they can call be crossed over between the two. What cannot be changed over are the actual finer points of the dive a.k.a. penetration, deco, extended range, etc.

A required safety stop is deco, therefore tech in my opinion. Recreational divers do safety stops for added safety, they aren't a requirement, so that's why i say rec.

If you change your dive plan to include deco obligations, that's tech to me. Using different gas mixes to do deco on, that's technical as well.

More clear?

cummings66
03-11-2008, 20:41
Any dive below 100 feet according to my Padi tables requires a mandatory SS. It's still recreational diving according to Padi. You are right that it is a deco stop, it's just called a safety stop. In fact, all dives are deco dives whether or not they're called that.

DarinMartell
03-12-2008, 12:00
DIR wanabe, Stroke, Tech-rec, techreational, techie

All of those who believe that no one organization or group have a lock on what makes a safe and comforatable dive. And use a mixture of the different aspects of these other divers that make the most sense in their own situation.

Why not borrow a page from DIY and take ownership of a popular phrase to decribe yourself. If anyone makes a comment about how I am one of the above mentioned group, I will reply and say no, I'm not DIR I'm CYA.... Becuase isn't that what we are doing? We are picking different things from different places to make the diving we do more safe to Cover Our A$$?

MSilvia
03-12-2008, 12:20
More clear?
Yeah, I guess it's clear, but I still find the distinction to be an artificial one that isn't particularly meaningful or useful.

It's all just diving to me. If some of the decisions I make during my dive or dive planning make my dive fall into one or the other of the categories you've defined, that's fine, but I don't see how the distinction is actually useful, or how it tells you anything important about the dive.

What value does dividing scuba diving into arbitrary "recreational" and "technical" subdivisions add?

rfb3
03-12-2008, 13:13
What value does dividing scuba diving into arbitrary "recreational" and "technical" subdivisions add?

Nada...

Scubastud16
03-12-2008, 20:30
More clear?
What value does dividing scuba diving into arbitrary "recreational" and "technical" subdivisions add?

Absolutely nothing!

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
03-12-2008, 20:48
There's sport diving and commercial diving. Tech diving is basically just sport diving that's not blessed by the recreational agencies.

FyVe
03-12-2008, 21:16
so techcreational is more "pinion" than anything else from what i've read.
does that sound right?

i was looking at a bp/wing since my brothers feels ok in the water, but i dont see my self getting rid of my zeagle BC. with a bp/w i'd still be a rec diver doing reefs and shores.

Scubastud16
03-12-2008, 21:56
More and more people every day convert to BP/W (like myself) for recreational diving.

Clanggedin
03-13-2008, 13:23
Hopefully with more and more people using BP/W and long hose in a rec situation, less people will automatically classify you as "tech" just because of the gear you wear.