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View Full Version : Finished the drysuit class today.



mpd525
03-12-2008, 20:31
Me and my local dive buddy finished our DS cert today. As some of you know, i had issues the last time out with my borrowed Tri-lam. Shortly after that i found a Bare DS on ebay, and bought it for 180 bucks. had my LDS look at it, and everthing was in great shape, and he didn't even think it had hit the water, probably a demo. But we did replace the wrist seals.

So on to today, i was real nervous about it, because of the problems i had. But we got suited up, and hit the water, and i had a great time, a couple of equipment issues that are now fixed, and my feet are still trying to come over my head, so i can cure that with ankle weights. But all in all, it went good. I had a leak in the seals, and we figured out the problem with that, so i'll be hitting the water again, next wednesday and keep, getting better.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
03-12-2008, 20:37
Congratulations. If your like me after about 10 dives you will not want to dive wet again.

jwdizney
03-12-2008, 20:55
Congrats, L! man, that's a great deal on the dry suit too! i talked to Tim earlier today and he said he had been diving this morning, must have been your dry suit class!...we're waiting for late April, early May for wetsuit season!.....

mpd525
03-12-2008, 21:25
yep that was us, i think i was there looking at his thailand pics when you called. Was it about the FD, or something

cummings66
03-12-2008, 21:30
If you're having floating feet issues don't do the ankle weights just yet, try using less air in the suit. Most of the time it's because you have too much air.

What I use as an illustration is to squeeze all the air out you can on the surface prior to diving, go down about 15 no more than 20 feet. Remember that feeling, now keep the air in the suit so that you have the same feeling at any depth and you'll probably find out that your floaty feet problem is gone.

On the occasions when you use a lot of air in the suit to stay warm then you can learn to deal with it as well.

How did they teach buoyancy control? That's a major factor to floaty feet in some cases.

mpd525
03-12-2008, 22:23
we use our BC's to control bouyancy, and just use enough air in the DS, to keep the squeeze off. I am probably using a bit too much air, but i also swim, a little head down, so alot of my air is going to my feet. I'll get it worked out with time and patience.

Thanks Though.

firstdive2005
03-12-2008, 23:11
[quote=mpd525;144660]we use our BC's to control bouyancy, and just use enough air in the DS, to keep the squeeze off.

Hi mpd525! congrats of the drysuit card. Did u mean control bouyancy at surface? if not this is the reason I think you should not be using your bcd during your dive and only using your drysuit-
1. it assures proper volume to avoid suit squeeze.
2. it eliminates the task of loading of trying to control two sets of valves at once,especially during ascents and descents.
3. it keeps the proper amount of air or argon in your undergarment for insulation.
Once you start your descent you should have dumped the bcd air, once the descent has begun start controlling suit squeeze with short bursts, the same as you would use with your bcd in wetsuit diving. Spread eagle yourself to distribute the air while descending. I personally also agree dont get in the habit of using ankle weights. It will come. Practice at shallow depths do lots of rolls, get a feel for the air movement in your suit, this helped me alot. I also wanted to use weights but my mentors helped me this way. I spent a lot of time in the pool before I hit the real thing. I must have rolled several hundred times and removed my bcd way too many times. But I can do these things very well now, so I can concentrate on the other very necessary skills of safe diving. I dont mean to sound like a pro, I am new, the things I wrote up top are from padi, not me. The other stuff was taught to me not sure if its padi but I feel good in the water. Have fun dude. kev

Skyjunky
03-12-2008, 23:37
^You will probably learn to do the opposite of what PADI says to do in the class.

firstdive2005
03-12-2008, 23:43
^You will probably learn to do the opposite of what PADI says to do in the class.

I hope not they keep telling me to keep my reg in my mouth while in the water. What do you mean by your statement. Was I wrong? Can u give the proper way to bouyancy then. thanks, u may help me get better than I am now, it would be good to learn better techniques.

cummings66
03-13-2008, 07:36
Most drysuit divers do not dive the way you were taught, we were also taught that as well, but told of the better way of doing it.

Nothing wrong with the Padi method, other agencies as well. NASE taught me that way. However, in real life it's just not how most do it. I believe every diver should be 100% comfortable diving it that way, especially technical divers, but I also believe you should know how to do the other. I practice both because I need to be able to handle anything that comes up.

Suit for squeeze, BC for BC, that's how it's most often done. There are vocal proponents for both sides though.

skdvr
03-13-2008, 08:06
When I went through my PADI drusuit class the instructor told us that PADI wants us to use the drysuit for buoyancy control because they do not want you to have to worry about managing 2 air spaces. He knew that myself and the other guy in the class with me wanted to get into tech diving so he told us that a large portion of people that dive drysuits all the time just use the drysuit to stay dry and the BC for buoynacy control (Hence the name). He said that you should be able to manage 2 air spaces and not really have to think about it. So that is the way the he taught us, since we both were going to go that direction anyway.

I understand why PADI teaches it that way. They do not want a newer student to get overloaded and confused. It is tough to un-learn something though after it has become second nature, so I am glad that I got to do my class the way that I did.

In the end each diver needs to do what makes them comfortable through the learning process. Before to long it will be second nature and you will not even think about it anymore.

Phil

firstdive2005
03-13-2008, 10:37
Most drysuit divers do not dive the way you were taught, we were also taught that as well, but told of the better way of doing it.

Nothing wrong with the Padi method, other agencies as well. NASE taught me that way. However, in real life it's just not how most do it. I believe every diver should be 100% comfortable diving it that way, especially technical divers, but I also believe you should know how to do the other. I practice both because I need to be able to handle anything that comes up.

Suit for squeeze, BC for BC, that's how it's most often done. There are vocal proponents for both sides though.


Thanks for the reply, I hope I'm not hijacking this post. I have not used my BC for bouyancy, are you saying it is a better way to dive, using the BC at depth? Why if so? I am not quite sure what you mean by tech divers should be 100% with it, which way? I totally agree about being able to handle all situations, I appreciate your reply. kev

firstdive2005
03-13-2008, 10:50
When I went through my PADI drusuit class the instructor told us that PADI wants us to use the drysuit for buoyancy control because they do not want you to have to worry about managing 2 air spaces. He knew that myself and the other guy in the class with me wanted to get into tech diving so he told us that a large portion of people that dive drysuits all the time just use the drysuit to stay dry and the BC for buoynacy control (Hence the name). He said that you should be able to manage 2 air spaces and not really have to think about it. So that is the way the he taught us, since we both were going to go that direction anyway.

I understand why PADI teaches it that way. They do not want a newer student to get overloaded and confused. It is tough to un-learn something though after it has become second nature, so I am glad that I got to do my class the way that I did.

In the end each diver needs to do what makes them comfortable through the learning process. Before to long it will be second nature and you will not even think about it anymore.

Phil

I posted the above without reading yours, you answere my questions. I agree with the unlearning thing. So all tech divers use their BC at depth? Why? What is the value of having 2 air spaces to work with a depth? Is it simplicity with inflating/deflating BC? Maybe I should just get to depth and try it. I just dont see the value when I trim easy with my DS. My bouyancy is easily controled with my DS. What situations would call for BC control other than suit failure? I dont dive doubles yet. So obviously I am not tech yet. My circle of drysuit friends dont use their BCs at depth. At my LDS meeting next this topic will come up. thanks

Divingguy
03-13-2008, 11:15
Part of the reasoning for using the BC is because it can supposedly "dump" faster. That of course depends upon each DS, and each BC. Where is my popcorn????

skdvr
03-13-2008, 11:29
When I went through my PADI drusuit class the instructor told us that PADI wants us to use the drysuit for buoyancy control because they do not want you to have to worry about managing 2 air spaces. He knew that myself and the other guy in the class with me wanted to get into tech diving so he told us that a large portion of people that dive drysuits all the time just use the drysuit to stay dry and the BC for buoynacy control (Hence the name). He said that you should be able to manage 2 air spaces and not really have to think about it. So that is the way the he taught us, since we both were going to go that direction anyway.

I understand why PADI teaches it that way. They do not want a newer student to get overloaded and confused. It is tough to un-learn something though after it has become second nature, so I am glad that I got to do my class the way that I did.

In the end each diver needs to do what makes them comfortable through the learning process. Before to long it will be second nature and you will not even think about it anymore.

Phil

I posted the above without reading yours, you answere my questions. I agree with the unlearning thing. So all tech divers use their BC at depth? Why? What is the value of having 2 air spaces to work with a depth? Is it simplicity with inflating/deflating BC? Maybe I should just get to depth and try it. I just dont see the value when I trim easy with my DS. My bouyancy is easily controled with my DS. What situations would call for BC control other than suit failure? I dont dive doubles yet. So obviously I am not tech yet. My circle of drysuit friends dont use their BCs at depth. At my LDS meeting next this topic will come up. thanks

I cannot say that all tech divers use their BC's and not their DS for buoynacy control. I am not a Tech Diver by the way. This is just what my instructor told us and what I have hear and read from other divers. As to why I would rather manage two air spaces instead of just usin gmy drysuit, here is my opinion on it. The biggest reason I can think of is being able to dump excess air in just about any orentation (head up, head down, or on my side). If I am only putting enough air in my DS to keep the squeeze off and keep me warm, and then if I happen to start getting a lite feeling of ascending and not wanting to I know that I can try to swim down while dumping air from my BC. If all of the air is in my DS I cannot swim down and dump air at the same time. It is easier to manage a small bubble in a large space than a large bubble in a large space. I would prefer to manage that large bubble in a small space.

Again that is just my opinion in a rather limited amount of diving experience that I have, and even less with a DS. Just the way I look at it.

If you are comfortable doing it the way you do it then I say keep it up. Unless someone offers some reason (safety wise) that you should do it differently...

Phil

cummings66
03-13-2008, 11:50
I'm not saying they "all" use the BC, what I'm saying is that as a technical diver you're probably going to be diving a gear config where if you lose your wing or drysuit the other must be able to be used safely to get you back to the surface.

A technical diver may have a deco obligation, or be in a cave, either way, they can't risk a ride to the surface with injury or getting trapped in the cave, wreck, whatever.

That means you better be proficient at using your gear, you best be able to use the BC to control buoyancy and the drysuit to control buoyancy, both are vital to your survival if something goes wrong with either. If you're not used to one or the other you can make mistakes, mistakes kill.

When I said most divers what I mean is MOST DIVERS, not a select group of divers, ie tech divers use the BC and rec divers use the suit. I mean that in my circle of friends whom I dive with, they ALL use the BC to control buoyancy and the drysuit to control squeeze. They can use use the suit for a BC as well if needed.

What I'm saying is there is the way it's taught, and there is the way it's done. Both need to be known. You can dive it either way, but to be honest you'll find that using the BC as a BC will make diving the drysuit fun and as easy as a wetsuit. You make it harder by using the drysuit as a BC.

IMO a diver should be taught to use the drysuit only to relieve squeeze in the start, it's safer and after they master it then add the part about using it as a BC. It's harder to manage that bubble than it is to manage a BC, make it easy and then add in things. That's my thoughts.

I will only say dive it how you want, I do it both ways and am comfortable with either method. I will often use the drysuit only to stay warmer when I do manage to get chilled, plus it keeps me in practice for feeling where the bubble is.

mpd525
03-13-2008, 12:46
i was taught to use the BC for bouyancy, and i even asked him which is better, and he said you always use your BC for bouyancy, so there is no need in complicating things, and changing what you normally do, just for a specific suit.

To me using the BC for bouyancy is natural, it's the way i've always done it, so it's comfortable for me. I don't see the point in complicating things by trying to learn a whole new form of bouyancy control. As i originally said, the only problem i'm having is feet high, and once i get that under control i'll be doing fine, because other than that I had no problems yesterday.

But as somebody else already said, there are different views on both, and what works for some may not work for others. It's like everything else in diving, it's all about what you feel good about doing, to a safe extent. Obviously i'm a new DS diver so i'm no expert, and i haven't tried using the DS for bouyancy, but IMHO, it would be too much of a headache, more air to contend with, not you have to be a certain way to dump the air.

ScubaJW
03-13-2008, 13:35
You can use ankle weights or gaiters (that is to wrap around your lower legs to prevent the air from entering your lower legs/feet area). I used gaiters, it worked well!

firstdive2005
03-13-2008, 22:15
Thanks everyone for the experiences. I think I will try out using my BC. In my mind it makes sense. I can see being able to control the bubble easier. I'm glad I learned to totally feel comfortable not using the BC, I think that helped me learn to trim without extra wieghts at my ankles. I dont know that for sure. but regardless thanks for the views.

cummings66
03-14-2008, 07:00
You may discover you're foot heavy without lots of air in the legs, but if you're used to moving the bubble around I suspect you'll handle it fine. If you try the BC I think you'll like it, but do stay in practice with both methods. The drysuit is a backup for if your BC fails, or vice versa.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
03-16-2008, 17:36
In the pool today, I used both methods with a single tank. Both were just fine.

I believe it all comes down to how large the free air volume needs to be to obtain neutral buoyancy. With a single 80, the free air volume fits very comfortable in the drysuit. With doubles the volume is too large for using the drysuit alone in a comfortable (and safe) manner.

So if diving doubles, use the BC. If diving singles, you might find that using the drysuit works great.

DivingsInMyBlood
03-21-2008, 23:58
Im happy doing it both ways, i remember last year the first time i dove dry in a shallow area and losing the bubble due to too much air in the suit and getting all upside down feet up (pretty funny). With pracice both ways will be as easy as each other. my guess (not that I know) with the tech types using the B.C as a B.C underwater is because they have a back inflate (wing) and alot of heavy gear (2 tanks, bail outs) and want to keep the air in one place and not have a air bubble rolling around inside their suit.

cummings66
03-22-2008, 12:56
It's not tech types exclusively, I was taught the book method or drysuit for BC, but when it came down to it the second non book method they taught is what worked best as a new diver.

Managing the BC and drysuit is simple, it's not as hard as they would have you believe. The reason you're taught to use the drysuit is because they figure you're not skilled enough to do both. It has nothing to do with technical or recreational, it's because they don't think you can handle two methods of control.

A technical diver would actually manage 3, we have the drysuit, BC, and lift bag and you need to use all 3 of them in practice in case you have multiple failures. The lift bag is the most versatile thing because it doubles as a third method of buoyancy control and as hang lines, lift bags, etc. Very useful item to have.

So I have a drysuit with who knows how much lift, a 49 lb doubles wing, and a 60 open bottom Halcyon lift bag with a dump valve to modulate it's lift as needed. Reel and spool for the bag.

The main point of this post is, it's not a tech thing to use the BC for a BC when diving a drysuit. It's an ease of use thing only. For what it's worth, my older Viking drysuit manual doesn't even have you use a BC, just a plate and tanks. The newer one has you using a BC. They're slowly swinging around to realizing it's easier and safer to use a BC for what it was meant to be used for.