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Garrobo
03-18-2008, 09:47
Gasoline in my area in Ohio is selling for $3.30 a gallon. I was recently down in Honduras where the price is right at L80 (Lempira) a gallon or $4.00 (USD) a gallon, in a country where the average income is about $700 a year. So you think you've got it tough? Kwicherbichin.

Ohmdiver
03-18-2008, 11:57
So are you advocating higher gas prices? :smilie40:

My problem isn't so much the cost, but that the public isn't outraged by the $10,000,000,000.00 (Ten BILLION DOLLARS) profits that the Oil Companies post per qaurter.....

and if my state taxes gasoline at a percentage, and the price goes up they are collecting more from the gas tax, Why is my TAXES still increasing?

JTMoney
03-18-2008, 12:00
That kind of thinking never works. If it did then no one would be unhappy, except maybe the one guy that has absolutely nothing to live for, because there's always someone that has it worse than you do.

Big Mike
03-18-2008, 12:10
I hate to say it, but: Gasoline, Tobacco, Alcohol are all government "Cash Cows":smiley19:

JahJahwarrior
03-18-2008, 12:10
So are you advocating higher gas prices? :smilie40:

My problem isn't so much the cost, but that the public isn't outraged by the $10,000,000,000.00 (Ten BILLION DOLLARS) profits that the Oil Companies post per qaurter.....

and if my state taxes gasoline at a percentage, and the price goes up they are collecting more from the gas tax, Why is my TAXES still increasing?

It's capitalism. For us to be outraged at a company to be making profit, we'd have to have a communistic mindset. I'm glad they are making money. Of course, I'm driving less nowadays...

Couldn't agree more about taxes though. In my home county, gas is consistently 15-30 cents more than here at college thanks to the Alachua County Commissioners. I hope their cars break down and they are given hummers as rentals!!!

cummings66
03-18-2008, 12:39
I agree, we shouldn't be outraged at them making 10 billion dollars, we're not socialist here, we're a capitalistic society and we believe in turning profits.

They just make more than most because they have the product we all want. I wonder what the salt industry makes?

georoc01
03-18-2008, 12:48
No one was shedding a tear for the Oil companies when oil prices were around $10 a barrel in the 90's and they were laying people off all over Texas and Colorado.

And then the question is..who really owns the oil companies? Its us, in our 401Ks and retiree accounts. Its people like my mom who got some shares from her father when he died 20 years ago.

Like it or not, its the only way are going to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Its a question of national security. High prices lead to changes in consumer preferences and development of alternatives.

Brazil learned this lesson in the 70's and is now a net exporter of oil. The US didn't and increases its dependency every year.

RoyN
03-18-2008, 12:59
I just saw gas close to $4.75 in my area :smiley11:

chris in the socal
03-18-2008, 13:04
Here in california
I pay 36 cents fed gas tax
18 cents state tax
and 3.9 for various others

thats 57.9 cents for no reason but to rip us off here

And oh yah gas is 3.69 here

chris in the socal
03-18-2008, 13:06
Oh and I forgot there is another EPA tax that I think is 9 or 12 cents

Osprey
03-18-2008, 13:40
I just saw gas close to $4.75 in my area :smiley11:

The hell kind of pricing is THAT??

Ohmdiver
03-18-2008, 13:49
I am not against making money, I just know we (as a public) are all struggling to make it. Home foreclosures and all, It is the insanely huge amount of profit.(Monopolies are broken up when ever they occur for just this reason, additionally there are laws against price gouging, is that anti-capitalism?) I wonder what that works out to be for each gallon of gas? And desiel is even more outragous, it takes less to refine and cost more at the pump.
I get it, it is supply and demand.

Gas $ 3.45/gal
I saw desiel @ 4.03/gal the other day...

As far as forien oil, harumph!! - There is a major chain (I wish I could remember which one ) that claims it is only selling products from Domestic supplies, if so why are they at the same prices? I am not a fan of conspiracy theroies, but I think there is more to the price than we know...

WAHMof2
03-18-2008, 14:53
You think gas is expensive now? I don't think we've even begun to see high prices yet. I expect to see present prices triple in my lifetime, but also in that time I expect to see other forms of energy being used more than gasoline. It will all level out I think. It's not like we have an unlimited supply of oil anyway, so why stress over it?.

texdiveguy
03-18-2008, 15:04
Regular at a local 7-11 was $3.09 here today.

WV Diver
03-18-2008, 15:06
I just saw gas close to $4.75 in my area :smiley11:

:smiley29::smiley5: That is way high. It's $3.45 here. $4.75 is really high as far as I am concerned.

I kind of agree with ohmdiver. It's good to make a profit, it's not so good to stick it to your fella Americans. Give me a break, it seems like everywhere you turn somebody has their hand in your pocket. I mean more than usual, not just gas.

Garrobo
03-18-2008, 15:39
Ohmdiver:: Nope. Not advocationg higher gas prices, just pointing out that others around the world are paying a lot more compared to us. Also, I will say that I am glad to see the oil companies making large profits. Now maybe they will have the money to build the 12-14 refineries we need around this country to ease the lack of gasoline capacity. It costs billions of dollars to build a refinery, takes years to complete and will need lots of dollar to grease the skids to get it done. They'll need to pay off the politicians, the wacko environmentalist and the states and counties where the refineries need to be located. Queston::If you were working at a job which paid say twenty dollars an hour and all of a sudden your profession was not able to supply industry with enough people to do your type of work so the going price for people in your profession jumped to fifty dollars an hour would you refuse to accept this increase in pay because you thought you would be gouging the public? I don't think so.

cummings66
03-18-2008, 15:41
I agree that the govt has so many hands in our pocket right now that they could lose a few of them.

I personally think they should get out of it altogether and leave it to the states and go back to what they were created for in the first place.

However, with the taxes on fuel we do see the benefit of some of that. I'm sure that not all of it goes back into the infrastructure based on the state of our current roads, but some tax is necessary.

mpd525
03-18-2008, 18:03
I'm pretty sure it might have something to do with our presidents, nice retirement fund, when he's out of office. Because there is absolutely nothing being done about it within our government.

mpd525
03-18-2008, 18:05
hence the war in Iraq, and yes i can say that, i got to enjoy 375 days there

Garrobo
03-18-2008, 22:58
mpd525:: Oh, to be young again. Nothing I'd rather be able to do than to personally dispose of a couple dozen ***heads. Lucky you.----Actually, the Prez doesn't get that much when retired compared to lotsa CEO's both in the oil industry and other businesses. Just a drop in the bucket considering the trillions of OUR dollars the gov't spends each year. I think that Truman and Eisenhour were the only presidents that were not millionairs either going in or out of office since WWII. (Don't know about Ford.) So the yearly pittance that they would recieve would be pocket change to most of them.

mpd525
03-18-2008, 23:17
but the subsidies, and all the other money, that big oil throws at president, and the rest of congress for that matter, goes to that good ol' retirement fund. When we went into Iraq the first thing that was secured was the Oil, "for the economy of the Iraqi people" ****s***, because it wasn't even 6 months after that Haliburton was transporting oil to the harbors, and I am almost willing to bet that the money from the sell of that oil didn't go the Iraqi people.

Now don't get me wrong, your damn right we shouldve went to war after 9/11, but we should've stayed in Afgan, where the TERRORISTS WERE!!!! How many times did they change the reason we are in Iraq. Bottom line is, our soldiers, airman, sailors and marines are the best in the world, and we will get the job done, no matter why we went in the first place.

I know that was completely off topic of gas (sort of), but i needed to vent. I'm proud of my service, and i would do it again in a heartbeat, I just wish we would have went there with all the right reasons, and not just a one or 2 real reasons, and several lies.

johnyringo
03-18-2008, 23:30
Heard on the news today to expect prices in excess of $5.00 a gal. this summer here in Ca.

RoyN
03-19-2008, 00:59
Heard on the news today to expect prices in excess of $5.00 a gal. this summer here in Ca.

:smiley19: With my parents driving an SUV with a load of rental tanks for divers on the charter, and then the boat fuel cost, I always make sure they don't give me a discount just because I'm their kid. :smiley29:

Oh and this is Saturday and Sunday, not counting special days and extended trip.

hooligan
03-19-2008, 01:25
Here in Japan, it's about 165yen/liter at 97yen to $1, that makes it roughly $6.80 a gallon :smiley5:. It cost me $30 to fill up my motorcycle the other day. When i first moved here the exchange rate was around 125yen/$1.

kingfish
03-19-2008, 02:57
About 1.40 AUD a litre here which i think works out about 5 USD a Gallon.
Lucky i drive a V8.:smiley5:

Jas.

maggs_the
03-19-2008, 06:13
i saw (and participated in) a survey from last year on one of the news networks websites that asked

How much does gasoline have to cost before you will even begin to think about changing your driving habits?

the most common response was $4.50/gallon

i dont enjoy giving my money away to anybody but i agree that if the demand is there and i'm willing to buy it... that's about the end of it. it hurts but if China is willing to pay more for the gas, why would anybody sell it to us cheaper?

my boyfriend works in the oil industry and could go on for days about this stuff but here in the US, they are under very tight scrutiny and regulations and they dont set the prices. i would be over stepping my knowledge if i tried to remember but either Wall Street or OPEC or maybe a combination of both is where the prices are hammered out?

John Yaskowich
03-19-2008, 08:02
Here in Ottawa this morning I saw gas at $1.08/litre which is about $4.12/gal (US$, US gal). "They" are predicting $1.50/l this summer (~$5.70/gal). OUCH!!

georoc01
03-19-2008, 10:47
Remember in California, Chevron is trying to expand its refining capacity in Richmond, but the locals are fighting it. The less refining we have, the higher the prices they will pay it that region.

MSilvia
03-19-2008, 11:07
So are you advocating higher gas prices? :smilie40:
I am, and I have been since the early 90's. IMHO, it's nice to see some incentive driving demand for alternatives. In the mean time, I don't so much mind that it costs me $30 every couple of weeks to fill my 10 gallon tank.

It must be a lot more of a burden for all the V8 and SUV drivers I pass in traffic while commuting to work. Their gas gulpers don't seem to get them there any faster than my 1.5L 4-cylinder.

MicahEW
03-19-2008, 12:50
Just paid $3.89/gal for diesel (the garbage of the refining process)

I was watching how much daily products increased over the last year. piza dough has gone up 300% the Milk has increased 100%. All of these are higher than the 3% rate of inflation. Inflation is even through the roof and dropping the prime rate only made it worse. Then on top of all that they are messing with My second ammendment AGAIN!

mm2002
03-19-2008, 13:06
[quote=Ohmdiver;146544]
It must be a lot more of a burden for all the V8 and SUV drivers I pass in traffic while commuting to work. Their gas gulpers don't seem to get them there any faster than my 1.5L 4-cylinder.

Yep. I drive a suburban, man what a gas hog! I have to have a vehicle like that for my business, so I don't have a choice. What really gripes my ass is all the people driving around in big SUVs that don't use or need a vehicle like that. There are a lot of older retired couples around here, and it seems that they love tooling around all day in their big rig burning up gas with nowhere to go. In my eyes all they are doing is making the future tougher on my kids, and I despise that.

Kabniel
03-19-2008, 13:14
Just paid $3.89/gal for diesel

$3.89??? I wish!! Here in the UK we're now paying the equivalent of between $9 - $10 /gallon for diesel

:smiley5:

MSilvia
03-19-2008, 13:30
There are a lot of older retired couples around here, and it seems that they love tooling around all day in their big rig burning up gas with nowhere to go. In my eyes all they are doing is making the future tougher on my kids, and I despise that.
I hear that... I saw a young but clearly self-important woman driving her empty Hummer in the "High Occupancy Vehicle" express lane the other day.

Sometimes my finger has a mind of it's own.

I also recently saw a Hummer on fire in the breakdown lane, with a distressed looking business man standing nearby gesticulating wildly as he shouted into his cell phone. My friend in the passenger seat commented, "Do you think he's burning more gas now, or less?"

caroln
03-19-2008, 14:14
My gas budget is currently over 1K a month for myself and my husband. It has doubled in the last 2-3 years, and that hurts, but we just have to suck it up and cut corners elsewhere. Gas by work I paid 3.69 this morning for regular

Hybrid cars are a nice idea--but the technology just isn't where it should be yet, and they have not been proven to be as long lasting. Since I drive 50K miles a year just to get to work, I need a car that can be relied on to last at least as long as my loan will, and that means something tried and tested.

Last I checked, we were all free to make our own choices. I find it pretty obnoxious for anyone to smugly sit and judge someone elses priorities based on what they're driving.

Garrobo
03-19-2008, 14:45
Personally I drive a 4-wheel drive Silverado. It gets about 15 miles to the gallon like most pickup trucks. I couldn't care less about the mileage since I don't drive that much. If I was putting 100 a day on it like I did when I was working I'd probably be a little concerned though. Not that I would buy anything else. I like that big V-8 and the power and speed that goes with it along with the heavy frame, sitting up high where you can see down the road instead of looking at someone's license plate and am willing to pay the price instead of ridng around in one of those little clown cars with my knees under my chin.

MSilvia
03-19-2008, 15:07
Hybrid cars are a nice idea--but the technology just isn't where it should be yet, and they have not been proven to be as long lasting. Since I drive 50K miles a year just to get to work, I need a car that can be relied on to last at least as long as my loan will, and that means something tried and tested.
Agreed... that's one of the big reasons I went with a reliable, conventional, easy to work on internal combustion engine with a 7 year 100K warranty. That it powers a comfortable 4 door sedan with enough trunk space for HP100 doubles and gear for two drysuit divers was frosting on the cake. Since Toyota only charged me $15K for this year's model, which gets 35 mpg highway (without two divers & gear, of course), it was pretty hard for me to pass up. It won't win many races, but I've never entered one, and even with a lunchbox for an engine it'll go a lot faster than traffic generally gives me the opportunity to.

Of course, your mileage (and priorities) may vary. As Caroln said, we're all free to make our own choices.

cummings66
03-19-2008, 16:22
Personally, I like the Jeep Grand Cherokee, it's got me into places a small car can only dream of going and I've never been stuck in it. If the snow gets deep enough to make those little cars stay home I'm out on the road with the other Jeeps and stuff.

I think I wouldn't want a car I can't count on to get me where I want when I want, no matter what. I called one dive this year because I took the van which gets better gas milage, but it can't handle the ice and snow like my Jeep and I wasted $30 gas due to it.

mm2002
03-19-2008, 16:25
Hydrogen is where it's at. The main problem with that right now is that the power plants which produce the electricity necessary for hydrogen production, and their byproducts, come into play. The cars themselves though, their only by product is water vapor. I know there are other ways of producing hydrogen, but the simplest is electricity and water.

The "hybrid" cars are fine and dandy for right now, but they don't fix the problem, as they still depend on fossil fuels.

Garrobo
03-19-2008, 18:50
msilva: Wait'll you slam into one of those gas guzzlers in your clown car. Then maybe you'd wish you had one.

Garrobo
03-19-2008, 18:52
MicahEW:: Looks like we might get a positive Conservative response from the Supremes on the 2nd Amendment suit considering the way the discussion went.

Garrobo
03-19-2008, 18:56
mm2002:: Damn, I thought I was reading something that B. Kennedy Jr. (Mr. Geen himself) had written, defending the fact that there were at least 4 SUV's parked in his garage. ONLY he and his family NEEDED them along with his private jet. No one else should be allowed to drive them though.

Garrobo
03-19-2008, 19:04
I too previously thought that a hydrogen generator would be the answer to the gasoline problem until I had it explained to me that it took the equivelent of three gallons of gasoline to produce enough hydrogen to produce the power equivelent to one gallon of gasoline at fifty times the cost to build the power plant. Plus you are riding around with a nuclear bomb under your ass. Huh?

bechwel
03-19-2008, 21:57
Yep filled up my truck today $102 $4.00 gallon for diesel. That last me about 4 days I need to make more money so I can afford to get to work.

mm2002
03-19-2008, 22:18
mm2002:: Damn, I thought I was reading something that B. Kennedy Jr. (Mr. Geen himself) had written, defending the fact that there were at least 4 SUV's parked in his garage. ONLY he and his family NEEDED them along with his private jet. No one else should be allowed to drive them though.

Well hey, I don't know about him, but I really do need the transportation I have. So far I haven't found anything that will pull a trailer with a 4000 lb automobile on it and still get 35 mpg. :smiley2:
Now, to have 4 of them...well yeah, that's stupid.
Now you made me feel bad too, so I'm selling my jet.:smiley19:

mm2002
03-19-2008, 22:19
I too previously thought that a hydrogen generator would be the answer to the gasoline problem until I had it explained to me that it took the equivelent of three gallons of gasoline to produce enough hydrogen to produce the power equivelent to one gallon of gasoline at fifty times the cost to build the power plant. Plus you are riding around with a nuclear bomb under your ass. Huh?

That's just because the technology is still young. Give it some time brother.

terrillja
03-19-2008, 22:37
Hydrogen is where it's at. The main problem with that right now is that the power plants which produce the electricity necessary for hydrogen production, and their byproducts, come into play. The cars themselves though, their only by product is water vapor. I know there are other ways of producing hydrogen, but the simplest is electricity and water.

The "hybrid" cars are fine and dandy for right now, but they don't fix the problem, as they still depend on fossil fuels.
The most common way to produce Hydrogen now is using Methane (Natural Gas). So it really isn't a great option unless someone develops some new technology.

mm2002
03-19-2008, 22:50
The most common way to produce Hydrogen now is using Methane (Natural Gas). So it really isn't a great option unless someone develops some new technology.


I agree, but the key statement there is "The most common way to produce hydrogen now". What we can do "now" and what we can do in the future are two totally different things. At least that's the way I see it. Remember that 100 years ago, internal combustion engines using fossil fuels weren't very efficient either.

terrillja
03-19-2008, 22:55
The most common way to produce Hydrogen now is using Methane (Natural Gas). So it really isn't a great option unless someone develops some new technology.


I agree, but the key statement there is "The most common way to produce hydrogen now". What we can do "now" and what we can do in the future are two totally different things. At least that's the way I see it. Remember that 100 years ago, internal combustion engines using fossil fuels weren't very efficient either.
True, the future could be different. I find it rather amusing though that the diesel engine was first designed to run on peanut oil, the we have been using petroleum fuel, and now we are looking to run diesel engines on biofuels. Full circle.

Grizbear98
03-19-2008, 22:57
When you can't afford to get to school and work anymore, what the heck is the point in going anymore? I know it's higher in other countries and has been for awhile, but they at least have ways of getting around it, like better public transportation

scuba Widow
03-19-2008, 23:07
In my opinion, there is nothing you can do about the price of gas so there is no need to complain about it...I am one of those drivers of a gas guzzler...91 Ford Explorer 4x4 and I think it is better than walking or riding a bike 15 miles to work and 15 miles back home in the mountains of East Tennessee.

mm2002
03-19-2008, 23:12
When you can't afford to get to school and work anymore, what the heck is the point in going anymore? I know it's higher in other countries and has been for awhile, but they at least have ways of getting around it, like better public transportation


That's the worst problem. Unless you live in a "big city", the options for public transportation are few if any. I know that where we live, most people have to commute at least 20 to 40 miles just to have a decent job, and there is NO public transportation available. The best they can come up with around here is carpooling, but that isn't fixing anything either.
I think a good idea to fix that problem (for now) would be fuel allowances for students and workers who require said amount of fuel to survive. If the welfare and food stamp people, or retired people want gas, they should pay full price.......they're costing us enough as it is.

MSilvia
03-20-2008, 11:45
msilva: Wait'll you slam into one of those gas guzzlers in your clown car. Then maybe you'd wish you had one.
Not likely with 4 star crash test results, but you're certainly entitled to your biases.

MSilvia
03-20-2008, 11:54
The most common way to produce Hydrogen now is using Methane (Natural Gas). So it really isn't a great option unless someone develops some new technology.
It doesn't need to be made that way. I've seen a very simple 12v solar system that breaks pond water down into component hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis. The small lunchbox sized "proof of concept" model isn't efficient enough to produce a quantity of fuel that would keep (for example) a boat engine running "on demand", but it'll fill a balloon with explosive gas in about 3 minutes. The biggest challenge was keeping the electrodes clean.

I see no reason it wouldn't be viable in the not too distant future as photoelectric technology improves.

gthomas
03-27-2008, 10:26
We're in trucking. With diesel at almost $4 a gal and a truck thats get about 5 to 6 ml per, its pretty hard to make a living.

UCFKnightDiver
03-27-2008, 10:43
I heard one of the big trucking companys is governing their semi's to 62 mph which will give them a 10% gain in milage I dont know if I agree with it because if the trucks have to accelerate they cant but oh well

Garrobo
03-27-2008, 13:04
msilva::Talk to your local state cop or sherriff deputy about the survivability of these little so-called "safe" cars.

emalebiga
03-27-2008, 13:31
All i have to say is public transportation. In Mexico city it is 45 cents to ride the bus. I live in minneapolis and only drive my car once a week. Every other day I am commuting by bus or bike.

divechaplain-sara
03-27-2008, 20:03
Most states (I had thought all states) tax gas at a per gallon rate instead of a percent like sales tax. Where do you have to pay sales tax (percentage) on gas?

Mtrewyn
03-27-2008, 23:59
Wow this is an interesting thread!
I think the Bush family made all their money in oil, I could be wrong but I thing that is the case.

High fuel costs are relay the last thing we should be concerned about, has anyone looked it the required emission standards for other countries? Ours is the worst, at around 20 or so, and not relay rising much for the future, while the rest of the world is requiring alot higher in the near future, what that means is that we the US will not be able to export any of our cars to other countries....That makes me VERY nervous, we think we have issues now, cost of living, Milk cost, bread, ect... what about all those workers that have lost their job because the big three cannot compete in the world market (not that they are doing all that well now) this oil issue is a symptom of bigger problems and and nobody seems to be looking to treat the real problem.

Didn't Brazil go to 100% alcohol for their cars and trucks? Then sell us the oil that they don't even use in their country? It seems like I read that some where.

UCFKnightDiver
03-28-2008, 00:34
the real problem is we need to find an alternative to oil but oh well

also I think in one of the threads i posted an MSN article about an upcoming requirement for decreased emmisons for cars in the US so that might not be such a problem then again I havent really researched the issue at all

UCFKnightDiver
03-28-2008, 00:42
ok I found the link that I posted awhile back

End of an Era? - MSN Autos (http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=455013&topart=luxury)

Ok well I reread it and it kinda says it could happen so we will have to wait and see.

Z-naught
03-28-2008, 03:54
From what I've read, hydrogen fuel cells are not the solution, at least for automobiles. Storing energy as hydrogen, as opposed to using some sort of battery, is just ridiculously inefficient. (However, hydrogen fuel cells will probably be utilized in aircraft and may serve as a backup to batteries in cars.) Battery electric vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car) (BEVs) are what offer the greatest efficiency, and given that they can use the preexisting electrical grid, unlike hydrogen powered vehicles that would require an amazingly expensive hydrogen infrastructure be built, BEVs are most likely to supplant the internal combustion engine vehicles of the present day. However, in the next decade or so, I think it's likely that ultracapacitor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracapacitor) based electric vehicles will come to dominate (http://web.mit.edu/erc/spotlights/ultracapacitor.html) due to their nearly infinite lifespan and ultra rapid recharge times. There's allot of literature out there that clearly spells this out. In light of that, I think it's a highly spurious claim that humanity's energy troubles will be solved by a "hydrogen economy".

Gas prices will only get higher, profits of oil companies will only increase, and environmental destruction will only accelerate as long as the world relies upon the burning of hydrocarbons for energy. There's good news though. Throughout the world, many people are developing new technologies that provide better ways of producing and utilizing energy. For automobiles, I think it is clear that internal combustion engines are on their way out. It's just a matter of time.

MSilvia
03-28-2008, 07:30
I just saw that there's a company competing for the x prize with a compressed air powered car due to be released on the US consumer market in 2010. It's a 6 seater with an 848 mile range and a top speed of 96 mph. Zero Pollution Motors - Air Car (http://zeropollutionmotors.us/)

Garrobo
03-28-2008, 09:59
Air car?? Is that anything like air guitar?? Looks like someone streamlined 1/2 of a shoe box. Probably OK for dwarfs.

cummings66
03-28-2008, 10:11
Hit one of those air cars and I'll bet you get a BIG BANG.

Mtrewyn
03-28-2008, 12:04
I'm not sure the higher emission standards are the "real problem" I was more saying that the high gas prices are a symptom and we need to find a way to treat the issues that surround it, finding an alternative to oil is the solution, but anything we come up with will have a whole other set of problems.

We all know the laws of Conservation ( energy can nether be created or destroyed it is just transformed to another state)

Wind if we pull all of the energy out of the wind...our weather will be effected "butterfly effect" from Chaos theory.

Solar if we absorb all the energy from the sun.... not as much heat in the environment.

I think there are problems with all things, people have just become too dependent on "energy" I'm one of them I don't want to loose my car or give up my TV or other things, things need to change I don't know how but they do.

One thing that is different in other countries is that people don't drive near as far to and from work as we do here in the US and that may be part of the solution maybe not, but it would help. Better mass transport would be a good help to, That might even help with the health issues that we have, walking a little to and from work every day... every little helps you know.

I don't know kinda makes me want to say " we are all screwed why try" you know its hard to think about I could never do that but you know some times you relay want to just chuck it.

UCFKnightDiver
03-28-2008, 12:07
From what I've read, hydrogen fuel cells are not the solution, at least for automobiles. Storing energy as hydrogen, as opposed to using some sort of battery, is just ridiculously inefficient. (However, hydrogen fuel cells will probably be utilized in aircraft and may serve as a backup to batteries in cars.) Battery electric vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car) (BEVs) are what offer the greatest efficiency, and given that they can use the preexisting electrical grid, unlike hydrogen powered vehicles that would require an amazingly expensive hydrogen infrastructure be built, BEVs are most likely to supplant the internal combustion engine vehicles of the present day. However, in the next decade or so, I think it's likely that ultracapacitor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracapacitor) based electric vehicles will come to dominate (http://web.mit.edu/erc/spotlights/ultracapacitor.html) due to their nearly infinite lifespan and ultra rapid recharge times. There's allot of literature out there that clearly spells this out. In light of that, I think it's a highly spurious claim that humanity's energy troubles will be solved by a "hydrogen economy".

Gas prices will only get higher, profits of oil companies will only increase, and environmental destruction will only accelerate as long as the world relies upon the burning of hydrocarbons for energy. There's good news though. Throughout the world, many people are developing new technologies that provide better ways of producing and utilizing energy. For automobiles, I think it is clear that internal combustion engines are on their way out. It's just a matter of time.


I am just wondering...where does that electricity come from....? mainly coal power plants which tend to pollute the atmosphere even with the clean coal technologies it still has emissions and then its also a Fossil Fuel and yes the US has a ton of it but I would like to see a renewable energy come out instead of another fossil fuel being used in some way or another... so I dont think electric cars are the solution imho

torrey
03-28-2008, 12:14
Hit one of those air cars and I'll bet you get a BIG BANG.

That's just a theory :)

MSilvia
03-28-2008, 12:20
Looks like someone streamlined 1/2 of a shoe box. Probably OK for dwarfs.
You must be thinking of the 2 seater prototype shown on the main page. The 6 seater form factors are still on the drawing board, but I don't have any reason to suspect they wouldn't be roomy enough for me. At 6' and 275# I'm certainly no dwarf.

Hit one of those air cars and I'll bet you get a BIG BANG.
A bang, yes. An explosion, probably not. Why would a compressed air car be any less safe than one with onboard gasoline or hydrogen? I'm pretty sure overpressure relief burst discs would work on a car as well as they do on a scuba tank, and it shouldn't take a genius to make them let go if there's an impact.

Besides, it would give me a good shot at convincing my wife I NEED a HP fill station.

Garrobo
03-28-2008, 15:14
$4.00 a gallon for gasoline is not a 'symptom'. It's a major illness and the cure is to drill for more oil along our coasts and Anwar or anywhere else there might be oil available on land that is owned by us, our friends and allies. In the meantime the brain people can waste their time trying to find an alternative to the internal combustion engine which is probably a bad dream and waste of research money. More oil is the answer.

Mtrewyn
03-28-2008, 15:46
$4.00 a gallon for gasoline is not a 'symptom'. It's a major illness and the cure is to drill for more oil along our coasts and Anwar or anywhere else there might be oil available on land that is owned by us, our friends and allies. In the meantime the brain people can waste their time trying to find an alternative to the internal combustion engine which is probably a bad dream and waste of research money. More oil is the answer.


this seems like the solution to being poor is to print more money.

there is only so much oil left, when its is gone its GONE no more don't pass go don't collect $200 gone end of story, is there more off our cost probably, will that solve our problem, not relay when that goes away we are right back to where we started 4.00 a gallon, more oil solution not relay just a band aid relay.

MSilvia
03-28-2008, 15:52
In the meantime the brain people can waste their time trying to find an alternative to the internal combustion engine which is probably a bad dream and waste of research money.

What about looking for alternatives do you think is a waste of time? Is it that you believe no power source could ever possibly rival the combustion engine? What is it that makes the search, as you so colorfully put it, a bad dream?

'Brain people'?


More oil is the answer.
More oil is a short term, short sighted band-aid, not a solution.

Garrobo
03-28-2008, 16:26
A lot of day-dreamers have this idea that some magical discovery will turn the world around overnight and our dependence on oil will just all of a sudden disappear. Unless you have been living in a closet for the last 50 years you would realize that this is just what I called it, a "pipe dream". If a person has any sense at all he/she would realize that the scientific community has with diligence been looking for this 'holy grail' for decades and have found nothing to replace oil as the entire modern world's main energy source. If it is out there and is an economical replacement for oil they've been keeping a secret from the rest of us earthlings. I have no problem with people dreaming and searching but one must come to grips with these facts and admit that there is no viable alternative for the time being. In which case the sensible thing to do is to find more oil. Otherwise we will all destruct along with these foolish fantacies.

georoc01
03-28-2008, 16:35
$4.00 a gallon for gasoline is not a 'symptom'. It's a major illness and the cure is to drill for more oil along our coasts and Anwar or anywhere else there might be oil available on land that is owned by us, our friends and allies. In the meantime the brain people can waste their time trying to find an alternative to the internal combustion engine which is probably a bad dream and waste of research money. More oil is the answer.


this seems like the solution to being poor is to print more money.

there is only so much oil left, when its is gone its GONE no more don't pass go don't collect $200 gone end of story, is there more off our cost probably, will that solve our problem, not relay when that goes away we are right back to where we started 4.00 a gallon, more oil solution not relay just a band aid relay.

The USA is the only country in the world that hordes its own resources and exploits the rest of the worlds. Oil is one example. Lumber is another.

Mtrewyn
03-28-2008, 16:50
more oil is like telling the Heroin addict that is in withdraw that more heroin in the solution and it is not, the solution is to get unhooked, or not be dependent on it, (sounds familiar).

or another way to look at it is having a high temperature is not the problem, the bacteria, is the problem, aspirin or more oil, won't help but for the short term, you have to get rid of the problem, bacteria, heroin, or in our case oil, will this happen soon who knows, but it has to soon.

Their was a program on HBO a while back called "who killed the electric car" you need to watch it, the guy had a battery that would run his car a LONG time, and he got the idea patented and the government forced him to sell his patent to OPEC, humm sounds odd to me.

remember a while back there use to be a be a race across the outback? Well that was a big deal, schools from all over the world use to make cars to go across it with out any oil of any kind. has any one heard any thing about this in a while? Humm sounds odd to me... Bush family, oil, OPEC buying pattens for good batteries, going to war in the part of the world where most of the oil is for no real reason ( well some good reasons, but a lot of lies also) the tax credit going away for hybrid cars, no credit for making your house more efficient like you got in the '70's, than companies making and people buying cars that get less than 10 mpg (hummers) no incentive to make things better, and the press telling us that we are not successfully unless we have all this stuff that we don't need ( any one know Tyler Durden) "We are polishing the brass on the Titanic" we have to find a solution soon.

UCFKnightDiver
03-28-2008, 17:04
The USA is the only country in the world that hordes its own resources and exploits the rest of the worlds. Oil is one example. Lumber is another.


your kidding right? heck oil China uses almost as much oil as we do and will surpass us soon....a good reason that the price of lumber has gone up is because we have been building alot that we destroyed in Iraq (or so im told by a guy who owns a logging and lumber company) so we may hoard the oil we have which is not a ton and we need it currently, but Lumber is certainly not an example of this.

MSilvia
03-28-2008, 17:08
A lot of day-dreamers have this idea that some magical discovery will turn the world around overnight and our dependence on oil will just all of a sudden disappear.
Other dreamers think that deliberate individual decisions to embrace viable changes can wean our dependance both individually and collectively without waiting for single a "magic bullet" solution that probably isn't coming.

As such a dreamer, I converted my house to non-oil heating for about what a couple of years worth of fuel oil would cost me. Next year, it's paid for itself. I got a high mpg vehicle, and have a tank half as big that I fill less often. MY dependance on oil is dramaticly less as a result, and the high costs of fuel haven't bothered me nearly as much as they did a year ago. I plan on reducing my dependance further as cost-effective alternatives present themselves... and they DO present themselves.


If a person has any sense at all he/she would realize that the scientific community has with diligence been looking for this 'holy grail' for decades and have found nothing to replace oil as the entire modern world's main energy source. If it is out there and is an economical replacement for oil they've been keeping a secret from the rest of us earthlings.
Again, I think we can agree that a single perfect solution for all applications probably isn't coming any time soon. Nevertheless, some of the power sources that have seen huge advances in recent decades include solar, wind, electric storage batteries, marine hydraulic power, geothermal, crystalized NG, compressed gas, fuel cells, and even biomechanics. Maybe you've heard of some of them?


I have no problem with people dreaming and searching but one must come to grips with these facts and admit that there is no viable alternative for the time being. In which case the sensible thing to do is to find more oil. Otherwise we will all destruct along with these foolish fantacies.
I'll make a deal with you. You agonize about $5 a gallon gas while coming to grips with there not being any alternative, and I'll continue to drive to work in my spacious "clown car" and heat my house with low cost "foolish fantasies". Frankly, I've got better things to do than waste my money on self-destructing.

MSilvia
03-28-2008, 17:11
remember a while back there use to be a be a race across the outback? Well that was a big deal, schools from all over the world use to make cars to go across it with out any oil of any kind. has any one heard any thing about this in a while?
Actually, yes! It was announced a week ago, and there's a $10,000,000 prize for the winner.

Progressive Automotive X PRIZE (http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/)

UCFKnightDiver
03-28-2008, 17:25
nice I look foreward to seeing what comes from this

Mtrewyn
03-28-2008, 17:25
remember a while back there use to be a be a race across the outback? Well that was a big deal, schools from all over the world use to make cars to go across it with out any oil of any kind. has any one heard any thing about this in a while?
Actually, yes! It was announced a week ago, and there's a $10,000,000 prize for the winner.

Progressive Automotive X PRIZE (http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/)


cool I'm glad to hear that that has nod been swept up too.:smiley20:

Is it the same one or a new one recently started?

Mtrewyn
03-28-2008, 17:32
Just wondering, when I was in Canada last summer I saw some cars that they were calling "smart cars" and said they get something like 30-50 km per l of gas , I don't remember the numbers exactly and they were REAL small two people no cargo small but for back and forth to work.

by the way 50 km per l

about 2 km in a mile 25 mi per l
about 4 l in a gal 100 mpg

but the us won't import them, apparently you cannot even get one across the border.

clown car yes but gas $4.00 a gal well there is a good band-aid for you.

Garrobo
03-28-2008, 19:35
And then there's always UFO's, Nessie, Sasquatch, the Bermuda Triangle, Hitler and Elvis to worry over. Same categories as 'alternative energy resourses'. Electric cars are a laffer unless all your driving is around the corner to the market and back.

UCFKnightDiver
03-28-2008, 20:04
wow Garrabo I kinda have to laugh by your thinking we shouldnt or wouldnt have advanced pass the stone age

PlatypusMan
03-28-2008, 20:43
but the us won't import them, apparently you cannot even get one across the border.

clown car yes but gas $4.00 a gal well there is a good band-aid for you.


IIRC, the original reason is that these cars allegedly did not meet US safety requirements in certain areas. I'm not saying the cars aren't safe, just that there are standards required here by regulation that they didn't get a pass on.

Having said that, it appears that they are bringing these vehicles to the U.S. as of January 2008 as you can read in Mini to the max: Will the Smart car grow on U.S. drivers? - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/11/08/smart.car/index.html)
along with some of the concerns going forward.

Beyond the 'wow' factor like we saw when the Mini Coopers hit, I see this as the ultimate commute-to-work vehicle around a city, with the SUV being used for longer-haul trips.

PPM

Mtrewyn
03-28-2008, 21:56
but the us won't import them, apparently you cannot even get one across the border.

clown car yes but gas $4.00 a gal well there is a good band-aid for you.


IIRC, the original reason is that these cars allegedly did not meet US safety requirements in certain areas. I'm not saying the cars aren't safe, just that there are standards required here by regulation that they didn't get a pass on.

Having said that, it appears that they are bringing these vehicles to the U.S. as of January 2008 as you can read in Mini to the max: Will the Smart car grow on U.S. drivers? - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/11/08/smart.car/index.html)
along with some of the concerns going forward.

Beyond the 'wow' factor like we saw when the Mini Coopers hit, I see this as the ultimate commute-to-work vehicle around a city, with the SUV being used for longer-haul trips.

PPM

for trips to work and such like witch is most of my trips, and if people will relay look at their driving habits most people i think will see that a LOT of gas to drive to quick trip to get their donuts and cigarettes its is the small trips that kill your gas millage.

Garrobo
03-29-2008, 08:34
Where I live there are no quick trips. The nearest grocery store, farm hardware store or Walmarts is 15 miles away. About a gallon each way. So I figure on $6.50 at local current gasoline prices to go to town. So I combine everything into one trip a week by keeping a list of everything I'll need for that time. I pass by a Carter lumber yard on the way. I might have to make a specialty trip to Carters now and then so that would cost me another $3.50 each trip. I actually could get by with only using around four or five gallons a week if I were disiplined in my driving but I go overboard sometimes and use up to 6-10 gallons some weeks. Plus I like to go about 80mph on the county roads and I know that that causes my Chevy 400 hp, 4-wheel drive pickup with all the bells and whistles, extended cab and long bed to use more gas. But, having a solid frame and lots of weight to back it up, I feel a lot safer at those speeds on our rough roads than if I were driving a Yugo or MiniCooper plus I really like the power coming out of that big-assed V-8. I found some steel pack mufflers to fit it which helps the mileage a little and really sounds off when you back off of it at 70 or 80. I've been looking for a set of mudflaps with the really cool lights on them too.

Mtrewyn
03-29-2008, 12:16
Where I live there are no quick trips. The nearest grocery store, farm hardware store or Walmarts is 15 miles away. About a gallon each way. So I figure on $6.50 at local current gasoline prices to go to town. So I combine everything into one trip a week by keeping a list of everything I'll need for that time. I pass by a Carter lumber yard on the way. I might have to make a specialty trip to Carters now and then so that would cost me another $3.50 each trip. I actually could get by with only using around four or five gallons a week if I were disiplined in my driving but I go overboard sometimes and use up to 6-10 gallons some weeks. Plus I like to go about 80mph on the county roads and I know that that causes my Chevy 400 hp, 4-wheel drive pickup with all the bells and whistles, extended cab and long bed to use more gas. But, having a solid frame and lots of weight to back it up, I feel a lot safer at those speeds on our rough roads than if I were driving a Yugo or MiniCooper plus I really like the power coming out of that big-assed V-8. I found some steel pack mufflers to fit it which helps the mileage a little and really sounds off when you back off of it at 70 or 80. I've been looking for a set of mudflaps with the really cool lights on them too.


wow, I give

Shellback
03-29-2008, 16:04
Where I live there are no quick trips. The nearest grocery store, farm hardware store or Walmarts is 15 miles away. About a gallon each way. So I figure on $6.50 at local current gasoline prices to go to town. So I combine everything into one trip a week by keeping a list of everything I'll need for that time. I pass by a Carter lumber yard on the way. I might have to make a specialty trip to Carters now and then so that would cost me another $3.50 each trip. I actually could get by with only using around four or five gallons a week if I were disiplined in my driving but I go overboard sometimes and use up to 6-10 gallons some weeks. Plus I like to go about 80mph on the county roads and I know that that causes my Chevy 400 hp, 4-wheel drive pickup with all the bells and whistles, extended cab and long bed to use more gas. But, having a solid frame and lots of weight to back it up, I feel a lot safer at those speeds on our rough roads than if I were driving a Yugo or MiniCooper plus I really like the power coming out of that big-assed V-8. I found some steel pack mufflers to fit it which helps the mileage a little and really sounds off when you back off of it at 70 or 80. I've been looking for a set of mudflaps with the really cool lights on them too.
Sounds like the price of gas is really not too much of an issue. Like myself, when it is time to hook up the boat to the truck I don't find myself complaining too much and just take it in stride. Kind of a cycle I guess since in the 80s vehicles in the US started down sizing and lots of compacts on the road and then the 90s hit and Bigger was better !

And then again, how about the folks that went to diesel vehicles in th last few years and then the price of diesel crept past gas, you just can't win it seems.

mark44883
03-29-2008, 17:08
time to ride my bike

cow109
03-29-2008, 18:29
>>>"I agree, we shouldn't be outraged at them making 10 billion dollars, we're not socialist here, we're a capitalistic society and we believe in turning profits."<<<

What???? In reality, we are a contradictory mixture of 50% socialism and 50% capitalism. It's just that we don't notice the socialism (same way a fish doesn't notice water) and we choose to wax rhetorical about the capitalist part. And you better get down on your knees and thank God (or your lucky stars) for socialism because it gives us roads, schools, etc., and even health care is a form of "private socialism" (your contributions pay for other people's health care). Socialism is likely what is keeping your grandmother alive. American society is a dialectical tension between socialism and capitalism, and rightly so.

Not that profiteering is inherently wrong, but because gasoline is as central to our daily survival as food and air, it needs to be a public utility (like water & electricity), not a commodity in the hands of corporate pirates. Right now gasoline is making .001% of the world's population very rich, and making the rest of us poor. So there!

mentalmarine
03-29-2008, 19:04
I have been driving the wifes car a lot more recently. The suv sucks down gas at 14mpg :( The prices of hybrids have been coming down making them more attractive. Though at 6'5" size is also an isse, I doubt I would fit in the smart car, it truley would be a clown car. I hope to purchase a car in the near future that would be better for the environment, and my wallet.

Suther2136
03-29-2008, 20:07
Just wondering, when I was in Canada last summer I saw some cars that they were calling "smart cars" and said they get something like 30-50 km per l of gas , I don't remember the numbers exactly and they were REAL small two people no cargo small but for back and forth to work.

by the way 50 km per l

about 2 km in a mile 25 mi per l
about 4 l in a gal 100 mpg

but the us won't import them, apparently you cannot even get one across the border.

clown car yes but gas $4.00 a gal well there is a good band-aid for you.

I think you read something wrong. On Yahoo auto the smart car is listed at 33/41 mpg, they also sport a 1L 3 cyl 70HP engine! My lawn mower is just less powerful than that. 0 to 60 take about 3 days and a strong tail wind. The car is also a big money saver in a crash; doubles as a coffin, just bury the whole thing. Not a bad little intercity car, but I wouldn't take one cross-state or cross country.

scubasamurai
03-29-2008, 20:25
time for a vespa scooter hahah and i am riding my bike even more

FishFood
03-29-2008, 20:29
Just wondering, when I was in Canada last summer I saw some cars that they were calling "smart cars" and said they get something like 30-50 km per l of gas , I don't remember the numbers exactly and they were REAL small two people no cargo small but for back and forth to work.

by the way 50 km per l

about 2 km in a mile 25 mi per l
about 4 l in a gal 100 mpg

but the us won't import them, apparently you cannot even get one across the border.

clown car yes but gas $4.00 a gal well there is a good band-aid for you.

I think you read something wrong. On Yahoo auto the smart car is listed at 33/41 mpg, they also sport a 1L 3 cyl 70HP engine! My lawn mower is just less powerful than that. 0 to 60 take about 3 days and a strong tail wind. The car is also a big money saver in a crash; doubles as a coffin, just bury the whole thing. Not a bad little intercity car, but I wouldn't take one cross-state or cross country.

Yep.

THere are already a number of cars that get the kind of milage, and are much larger than the Smart car. I don't see how the smart car is very smart ;)

tndiverdude
03-29-2008, 20:37
Gasoline is 3.08-3.20 a gallon here. I remember back in teh 70s when gas went up and teh government stepped in to stop price gouging. Its teh same now, only we dont have the same peopel in power to bring it up and do something about it.
As a farmer I am looking into producing my own fuel.
The price of fuel definatly has put a crimp on my job, as I am also a routeman for merchandising.
I heard that fuel in canada is 5 dollars a gallon US.
And my wife the other day sat at atraffic lighta nd watched teh rpice flutuate from 309 to 316 down to 313 in a matter of a minute!
its insane.

jimmy

Mtrewyn
03-29-2008, 22:51
Just wondering, when I was in Canada last summer I saw some cars that they were calling "smart cars" and said they get something like 30-50 km per l of gas , I don't remember the numbers exactly and they were REAL small two people no cargo small but for back and forth to work.

by the way 50 km per l

about 2 km in a mile 25 mi per l
about 4 l in a gal 100 mpg

but the us won't import them, apparently you cannot even get one across the border.

clown car yes but gas $4.00 a gal well there is a good band-aid for you.

I think you read something wrong. On Yahoo auto the smart car is listed at 33/41 mpg, they also sport a 1L 3 cyl 70HP engine! My lawn mower is just less powerful than that. 0 to 60 take about 3 days and a strong tail wind. The car is also a big money saver in a crash; doubles as a coffin, just bury the whole thing. Not a bad little intercity car, but I wouldn't take one cross-state or cross country.

I got my info from the people in Canada driving them, I do know that cars in other countries are always more efficient, it is almost like the US lowers the efficacy of the cars for us to have something to wine about (HA HA:smiley36:) the couple I talked to there could have been pulling my leg but the Jeep Cherokee from South America gets around 25 mph, mine gets about 15, I could be wrong. but either way, they have had them for a lot of years, we are just now getting them?!?!? I see something wrong with that picture.

Ohmdiver
03-30-2008, 12:39
Ohmdiver:: Nope. Not advocationg higher gas prices, just pointing out that others around the world are paying a lot more compared to us. Also, I will say that I am glad to see the oil companies making large profits. Now maybe they will have the money to build the 12-14 refineries we need around this country to ease the lack of gasoline capacity. It costs billions of dollars to build a refinery, takes years to complete and will need lots of dollar to grease the skids to get it done. They'll need to pay off the politicians, the wacko environmentalist and the states and counties where the refineries need to be located. Queston::If you were working at a job which paid say twenty dollars an hour and all of a sudden your profession was not able to supply industry with enough people to do your type of work so the going price for people in your profession jumped to fifty dollars an hour would you refuse to accept this increase in pay because you thought you would be gouging the public? I don't think so.

Well, that is interesting, but I think you are comparing apples to oranges, as least from my point of view.

I like capitalism, big fan. I think that the oil companies are gouging the American people, that is my point, I think they can make a reasonable profit with out hurting the general public.

I work construction, if we need 10-15 more refineries why weren't we building them 10-15 years ago. I also know that failing to plan is a plan for failure.

Paying off officials is not as widespread as you may think, enviromentalist are not all wackos, and should not be part of your rationale for higher prices.
Health insurance is no diffrent, my health insurance increased 30% in one year, and I get less coverage, the down side is that this was still the only insurance availible to us. I know of one person who pays $210 per week for Health insurance provided by the company he works for. Meanwhile the Insurance companies are crying poverty and a CEO retires with a $12,000,000 cash bonus plus stocks...Oh the poor Insurance company.

Again I am not against profit I am against being raped everytime I have to open my wallet.

Sorry it took some time to respond, been away....

jtkkym
03-30-2008, 16:15
I'm wondering why diesel price higher than gasoline. Diesel fuel take less refine process than gasoline so diesel fuel should be cheaper. Other countries' diesel fuel is less expensive than gasoline.

FishFood
03-30-2008, 16:53
I'm wondering why diesel price higher than gasoline. Diesel fuel take less refine process than gasoline so diesel fuel should be cheaper. Other countries' diesel fuel is less expensive than gasoline.

Because other country's diesel IS less refined. Ours however, is no longer simply a by product of creating gasoline. Especially now with the "Ultra-Low Sulfer" diesel, it means more refining for diesel fuels. Oh well... the evironment is worth it right? :smiley29: :smiley11:

cummings66
03-30-2008, 18:45
So we're back to the wacko's causing the diesel prices to be higher...

I think a lot of it is how we drive, if we could drive more efficiently we'd get better gas mileage and cut consumption which should make demand less which should lower prices.

My Jeep Cherokee got me 18.5 mpg this past weekend on my dive trip. I could probably get it up to maybe 20 if I was willing to drive 60 or less. Might get better with regular road tread too, my mileage dropped about 2 mpg when I put on the Geolander AT/S tires compared to the Good year ATS's I had.

Don't keep your speed going up hill, let it drop. Gain it back going downhill. Don't brake to a stop, coast to one. Don't drive 70, go 60. I gain about 1 mpg by driving 60 instead of 70 for example. Wind resistance, those Jeep Cherokee's block a lot of wind.

The best I ever got out of my JGC was about 21 mpg, and the worst was about 14 mpg.

I used to get 35 mpg out of my Ford Sable, but you know what? It couldn't carry my diving gear and camping gear for a full weekend without making the interior so crowded as to be dangerous if you got hit. That's why I have what I do now, it's got enough room for me, the Wife and daughter and carry all the gear for camping and diving.

mitsuguy
03-30-2008, 20:36
Just wondering, when I was in Canada last summer I saw some cars that they were calling "smart cars" and said they get something like 30-50 km per l of gas , I don't remember the numbers exactly and they were REAL small two people no cargo small but for back and forth to work.

by the way 50 km per l

about 2 km in a mile 25 mi per l
about 4 l in a gal 100 mpg

but the us won't import them, apparently you cannot even get one across the border.

clown car yes but gas $4.00 a gal well there is a good band-aid for you.

I think you read something wrong. On Yahoo auto the smart car is listed at 33/41 mpg, they also sport a 1L 3 cyl 70HP engine! My lawn mower is just less powerful than that. 0 to 60 take about 3 days and a strong tail wind. The car is also a big money saver in a crash; doubles as a coffin, just bury the whole thing. Not a bad little intercity car, but I wouldn't take one cross-state or cross country.

Yep.

THere are already a number of cars that get the kind of milage, and are much larger than the Smart car. I don't see how the smart car is very smart ;)

I didn't really want to get into this thread, but here it goes...

the problem with a car like the Smart Car, and all other small, fuel efficient cars, is that there aren't enough of them on the road...

the real problem with small cars is big trucks... I don't mean big trucks like semi's and delivery trucks, I mean big trucks that people drive to/from work and don't haul anything in the back of, or the family of three has has a ford excursion that seats 15 (ok, so, 8, but still)... If a smart car got into a wreck with another smart car, it would be within reason, but if a smart car got into a wreck with a Ford F-350, the person in the smart car is going to die...

crash testing may show good marks for these small cars, but remember, they are being crashed into stationary objects, and the only momentum they have to disperse is their own... bring a F350 or even a half ton Suburban into the mix, and you've got 6-8000 lbs worth of kinetic energy that needs to be dispersed as well...

I think we know what happens here... small car gets pummeled, big truck, driver keeps going "that was a big speed bump..."

FishFood
03-30-2008, 20:54
Hmmm... Did you mean to reply to my post, or Suther2136's?


The smart car is a Sub-Subcompact that gets the same fuel milage as a mid-90s Escort/Civic/Geo. All three of which can seat 4 people reasonably. Toss scuba gear for two people in an Escort/Civic hatch and you're good to go. Try fitting anywhere near that amount of crap in a Smart car and see how it goes. :smiley36:

The smart car (IMO) is a step backwards. "Big trucks" can't be blamed for the Smart car's crappy gas milage. I do get what you're saying, however, Itll be many many years untill the size of American vehicles finally drops signicantly .

MicahEW
03-31-2008, 17:42
heard that truckers went on strike today to protest fuel prices thought I would join in cause I drive a diesel too lol.

georoc01
04-01-2008, 09:48
Made for a great commute this morning with the truckers off the road. Not sure that was the effect they were looking for. Now if every trucker that supplied a grocery store called in sick for a week, we would start to see the effects.

Or if every truck driver agreed to drive at 5MPH down the road for a day or two...

EuphoriaII
04-01-2008, 10:11
heard that truckers went on strike today to protest fuel prices thought I would join in cause I drive a diesel too lol.

I heard it was only like 5% of the truckers in the US.

When I saw gas prices skyrocketing last year, I had a feeling it was more than temporary so we sold the wife's Toyota Sequoia for some thing much smaller/efficient. It's been a huge savings in gas. The only problem is when we go on vacation to Florida, we had to send some of our 'stuff' with her parents in another car. I just have 1 more year till my oldest kid is out of the house but this years vacation will be a challenge to fit everything in.

Garrobo
04-01-2008, 10:30
Trucker strike. What a laffer.

FishFood
04-01-2008, 10:45
Trucker strike. What a laffer.

Hardly (http://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/truckers-strike-forum/)

Garrobo
04-01-2008, 13:21
One percent of truckers and you call that a "strike"? In the old days we'd kick some a**, turn over and burn the job shacks and destroy the building when we struck. They're a bunch of wusses these days.

Mtrewyn
04-01-2008, 14:12
One percent of truckers and you call that a "strike"? In the old days we'd kick some a**, turn over and burn the job shacks and destroy the building when we struck. They're a bunch of wusses these days.

:smiley5:




I just cannot stop reading this thread!?!?? it's like a train wreck. You know it bad but you have to look anyway

georoc01
04-01-2008, 15:28
If the truckers wanted to make a point, take to the roads and drive really slow. That would get people's attention in a hurry..Especially if they drive abreast of each other preventing anyone from passing on the highway.

UCFKnightDiver
04-01-2008, 15:39
sounds like they would get arrested for that minumum speed limit is what 40 mph

MSilvia
04-01-2008, 15:57
sounds like they would get arrested for that minumum speed limit is what 40 mph
Probably depends on the state. It wouldn't take much though... I remember back in the '90s a LOT of folks in CT protested the 55 mph speed limit by strictly obeying it for a day. It was a freakin' nightmare.

terrillja
04-01-2008, 16:16
sounds like they would get arrested for that minumum speed limit is what 40 mph
45 in NH. Interestingly the speed limit for modular homes (in transport) in NH is also 45, so they have to be right on the edge. But I agree w/ Matt, if the trucks are driving 45 on all the highways, the highways would be a huge mess.

mobeeno
04-12-2008, 19:42
I just saw gas close to $4.75 in my area :smiley11:
Gotta dive more before its $5.75 or more.