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aprilgoddess1987
04-09-2008, 21:37
i just wrapped up my AOW was thinking about the cavern class I know i have to have a 7' hose and in case of an out of air emergency you hand you primary reg to your buddy, I have a sea cure mouth peice so could I put the 7' hose on my octo?

CompuDude
04-10-2008, 00:31
i just wrapped up my AOW was thinking about the cavern class I know i have to have a 7' hose and in case of an out of air emergency you hand you primary reg to your buddy, I have a sea cure mouth peice so could I put the 7' hose on my octo?

No. For cave/cavern, you'll need your 7' hose on the primary. Your secondary will be on a short necklace. If you use a Sea Cure, you'll need to cut it down short enough that other people can use it. Some instructors may not allow them, but that would be something to discuss with the instructor. And your buddy.

Dive-aholic
04-10-2008, 03:37
Some people will dive their necklace reg as their primary and clip off the 7' hose. It all depends on preference. It makes S-drills a little more involved, but there's nothing wrong with diving that way. You just need to discuss it with your buddy before the dive. I used to dive a Seacure before I started cave diving. I ended up going with a Comfobite and like it so much better than the Seacure. You might want to try one.

ianr33
04-10-2008, 06:44
Cavern does not require a long hose (although IMHO it is an excellent idea)

Is this a requirement of your instructor?

Sounder
04-10-2008, 14:57
I hate it when people have custom mouthpieces... drives me crazy when drilling.:smiley21:

aprilgoddess1987
04-10-2008, 15:25
Cavern does not require a long hose (although IMHO it is an excellent idea)

Is this a requirement of your instructor?

Yes its one of the requirements, along with 3 lights, a primary spool and a alternate spool

texdiveguy
04-10-2008, 15:46
There are some folks that require a Sea Cure custom bite mouthpiece because of dental/jaw issues.

It is not a requirement to do away with this piece of gear for any diver under any program rec/tech.

I have dove with a Sea Cure in the past and found it comfy....but I did switch to a Dive Rite long bite mouthpiece years ago for as equal a comfy fit, now all my regs. have the DR mouthpiece.

In the real world of diving in an OOG situation, I can 99.9% assure you that if offered a Sea Cure mouthpiece you are going to take it and be very happy with it!

I have never once seen an instructor refuse a student the use of a Sea Cure type mouthpiece....if you do encounter one its time to look for a different instructor.

As to Cavern course requiring a student to have a 7' hose....hmmmm...things must have changed of recent...I think it is a great idea for ALL divers to use them, but as to a Cavern program now making it a written requirement that is news to me.

cummings66
04-10-2008, 15:55
I don't think I've ever had to deal with a custom mouthpiece, it wouldn't be an issue no matter how you slice it. For the short time you'd be using it I suspect anybody could put up with a bite that didn't match their own.

Worst case it'd be like breathing off a free flowing regulator, that is if I couldn't close my mouth on it I'd purge it every so often. Yes, I've actually practiced that skill for the heck of it with the assumption of someday losing the rubber mount piece of a regulator. You never know, and knowing you can do something is reassuring.

Sounder
04-10-2008, 16:31
Yes, when OOG... any gas is good gas, custom mouthpiece or not. BUT, if I have my preference, I would much prefer to get a reg that fits me too.

CompuDude
04-10-2008, 17:24
I've seen people with shorter mouths gag on long sea cures.

No thanks. Any port in a storm, and all that, but on a reg that is intended for donation, I wouldn't be very happy about it.

texdiveguy
04-10-2008, 17:42
I've seen people with shorter mouths gag on long sea cures.

No thanks. Any port in a storm, and all that, but on a reg that is intended for donation, I wouldn't be very happy about it.

Not sure anyone was referring to putting a custom mouth piece on a reg. primarly designed for donation--I was not...but in the rare event someone did 'gag' on a custom mouthpiece I think that is still better than the alternative.....I am guessing the diver will resolve that issue very quickly in a survival mode.

UCFKnightDiver
04-10-2008, 17:45
I've seen people with shorter mouths gag on long sea cures.

No thanks. Any port in a storm, and all that, but on a reg that is intended for donation, I wouldn't be very happy about it.


though Im not into cavern yet I would agree with CompuDude if I was choking on a mouthpiece that was too long what good would that do.

I have heard good things about the apeks comfo bite mouth pieces I might try those.

CompuDude
04-10-2008, 18:06
I've seen people with shorter mouths gag on long sea cures.

No thanks. Any port in a storm, and all that, but on a reg that is intended for donation, I wouldn't be very happy about it.

Not sure anyone was referring to putting a custom mouth piece on a reg. primarly designed for donation--I was not...but in the rare event someone did 'gag' on a custom mouthpiece I think that is still better than the alternative.....I am guessing the diver will resolve that issue very quickly in a survival mode.

The OP mentioned having a Sea Cure mouthpiece. Merely addressing some potential issues with that which frequently aren't thought through...

texdiveguy
04-10-2008, 18:24
I've seen people with shorter mouths gag on long sea cures.

No thanks. Any port in a storm, and all that, but on a reg that is intended for donation, I wouldn't be very happy about it.

Not sure anyone was referring to putting a custom mouth piece on a reg. primarly designed for donation--I was not...but in the rare event someone did 'gag' on a custom mouthpiece I think that is still better than the alternative.....I am guessing the diver will resolve that issue very quickly in a survival mode.

The OP mentioned having a Sea Cure mouthpiece. Merely addressing some potential issues with that which frequently aren't thought through...

Cool..... :)

As I recall....the instructions indicate that users will in many situations when setting them up have to trim them a bit shorter for a proper fit...I know when I had one I had to so it became no longer than DR standard mouthpiece. From my view on them I am neutral....but in the event I had a SC handed me in an OOG....I still think even if a bit to long or not, I am going to be thankful its there.

ianr33
04-10-2008, 18:34
......................

ianr33
04-10-2008, 18:37
Cavern does not require a long hose (although IMHO it is an excellent idea)

Is this a requirement of your instructor?

Yes its one of the requirements, along with 3 lights, a primary spool and a alternate spool

Just out of interest,which agency is this with? Are these the agencies requirements or the instructors?

cummings66
04-10-2008, 19:08
I have heard good things about the apeks comfo bite mouth pieces I might try those.

I've got that on my Apeks, but to be honest I think my stock Sherwood Blizzard mouth piece is the best I've used so far. It's comfortable and won't gag a diver.

aprilgoddess1987
04-10-2008, 23:49
its an instructor requirement

texdiveguy
04-10-2008, 23:56
its an instructor requirement

Just as I suspected.

in_cavediver
04-11-2008, 05:15
Interesting. When my wife did cavern, the instructor specifically required 'rec' hoses. The rationale was this was a rec class and rec gear would be used. OOG drills are more interesting with a 'short' hose and as a rec class, that equipment is considered appropriate for that level.

Still, the last dive of the class, all the divers went back to 7ft hoses.

ianr33
04-11-2008, 07:48
I did my Cavern class with double 130's and a drysuit. Started Intro Cave the next day.

Thats the way I wanted to do it as I was used to diving doubles,knew I would get into Cave Diving and dont believe that Single tanks have any place in an overhead.

Seems to be a huge difference in Cavern classes.Might even be possible to do Cavern in Lake Travis ??!!
Dsat Technical Dive Training- Austin - ScubaBoard (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/227797-dsat-technical-dive-training-austin.html)

texdiveguy
04-11-2008, 09:46
Seems to be a huge difference in Cavern classes.Might even be possible to do Cavern in Lake Travis ??!!
Dsat Technical Dive Training- Austin - ScubaBoard (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/227797-dsat-technical-dive-training-austin.html)

You first have to attend the dive shops 'new' hey were into tech diving meeting to get any information on that recreational cavern class.......I thought that is why we have these forums.....you post information about course plans. LOL

in_cavediver
04-11-2008, 11:11
I did my Cavern class with double 130's and a drysuit. Started Intro Cave the next day.

Thats the way I wanted to do it as I was used to diving doubles,knew I would get into Cave Diving and dont believe that Single tanks have any place in an overhead.

Seems to be a huge difference in Cavern classes.Might even be possible to do Cavern in Lake Travis ??!!
Dsat Technical Dive Training- Austin - ScubaBoard (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/227797-dsat-technical-dive-training-austin.html)

I should have added that my wife stopped at cavern at that point. I did cavern/intro combined with more common cave gear. My wife later did intro/full cave in doubles, drysuit etc.

Dive-aholic
04-13-2008, 19:55
I did my Cavern class with double 130's and a drysuit. Started Intro Cave the next day.

Thats the way I wanted to do it as I was used to diving doubles,knew I would get into Cave Diving and dont believe that Single tanks have any place in an overhead.

Seems to be a huge difference in Cavern classes.Might even be possible to do Cavern in Lake Travis ??!!
Dsat Technical Dive Training- Austin - ScubaBoard (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/227797-dsat-technical-dive-training-austin.html)

When did the visibility in Lake Travis open up to 40'?


There are set standards for cavern courses. Almost all the of the agencies have identical standards. I've looked at the standard for about 1/2 dozen, including NSS-CDS, TDI, and PADI. There's not a whole lot of difference in the 3. The differences come from the instructor. I require a long hose in my cavern classes. I don't see how an effective exit can be done with short hose donation while remaining in a horizontal position. There might be a way, but I'm not going there. I don't require my students to have their own reels/spools. I supply them. The reason I do this is because I have a ton of reels and spools that I bought just trying to find the one that works for me. I've turned them into student equipment so my students don't end up waisting a lot of money on something that's not going to work for them. They get to try them out in class and then buy their own when they're done. Standards rquire 2 lights. I also have a collection of those that I will loan out if necessary. Pretty soon I'm going to be able to open up my own dive store on ebay...

ianr33
04-13-2008, 21:19
When did the visibility in Lake Travis open up to 40'?


Thats funny.

I asked the same question:
ScubaBoard - View Single Post - Dsat Technical Dive Training- Austin (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3477925-post38.html)

Apparently it only needs to be 20 feet
ScubaBoard - View Single Post - Dsat Technical Dive Training- Austin (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3480736-post44.html)

But what do I know,just a diver,not an instructor.

If Travis is O.K. for a cavern class then maybe I can do Advanced Trimix in a swimming pool. :smiley36:

texdiveguy
04-13-2008, 21:51
If Travis is O.K. for a cavern class then maybe I can do Advanced Trimix in a swimming pool. :smiley36:

LOL....thats funny now-- a pool....took me several different bodies of water and none of which were swimming pools. :)

I hear they even do Wreck Diving at Travis....even Fish ID.

Dive-aholic
04-15-2008, 02:46
When did the visibility in Lake Travis open up to 40'?


Thats funny.

I asked the same question:
ScubaBoard - View Single Post - Dsat Technical Dive Training- Austin (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3477925-post38.html)

Apparently it only needs to be 20 feet
ScubaBoard - View Single Post - Dsat Technical Dive Training- Austin (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3480736-post44.html)

But what do I know,just a diver,not an instructor.

If Travis is O.K. for a cavern class then maybe I can do Advanced Trimix in a swimming pool. :smiley36:

I have the CDS standards. Unless standards have changed, Mr. May is incorrect. I have never heard of visibility being based on the number of students/divers in a class/team.

texdiveguy
04-15-2008, 09:54
Maybe it's a British thing.

coyote
04-15-2008, 16:35
In the real world of diving in an OOG situation, I can 99.9% assure you that if offered a Sea Cure mouthpiece you are going to take it and be very happy with it!


That's what i was thinking. If I need your air, I'll use whatever you hand me - even if it's got an old sock attached to it.

CompuDude
04-15-2008, 22:59
In the real world of diving in an OOG situation, I can 99.9% assure you that if offered a Sea Cure mouthpiece you are going to take it and be very happy with it!


That's what i was thinking. If I need your air, I'll use whatever you hand me - even if it's got an old sock attached to it.

... and hopefully, you'll be able to breathe off of it and won't gag. :smiley11:

It's something worth checking during pre-dive buddy checks.

ianr33
04-23-2008, 07:58
It depends on the dive.

For an OW or Cavern dive I would be happy to breathe of anything for a few minutes.

2000' back in a cave with breathable air an hour away the last thing needed is added stress from a custom mouthpiece.

And on this subject a test: Why are the Apeks type mouthpieces (comfobite??) not DIR ?

CompuDude
04-23-2008, 15:01
It depends on the dive.

For an OW or Cavern dive I would be happy to breathe of anything for a few minutes.

2000' back in a cave with breathable air an hour away the last thing needed is added stress from a custom mouthpiece.

And on this subject a test: Why are the Apeks type mouthpieces (comfobite??) not DIR ?

They're not?

Sounder
04-23-2008, 16:58
It depends on the dive.

For an OW or Cavern dive I would be happy to breathe of anything for a few minutes.

2000' back in a cave with breathable air an hour away the last thing needed is added stress from a custom mouthpiece.

And on this subject a test: Why are the Apeks type mouthpieces (comfobite??) not DIR ?

They're not?

IF YOU USE AN APEKS MOUTHPIECE YOU'LL SURELY DIE!!

Yeah, why wouldn't Apeks mouthpieces be DIR? I know some serious koolaid main-liners :smiley20: who use Apeks mouthpieces (at least I think they do).

ChrisA
04-23-2008, 18:12
Yes, when OOG... any gas is good gas, custom mouthpiece or not. BUT, if I have my preference, I would much prefer to get a reg that fits me too.

Once, I had some one pull hard on my primary reg because they were OOA. Well not really. It was a class. We were told to go off and do some kind of navigation thing with a buddy. So we are off doing a 100 square. And then out of "no where" come this guy with no reg in his mouth, both his primary and seconday trailing as he swim fast and goes for mine. Only problem is that I had one of those "ultra good fittting" mouth piece and when he pulls he gets a reg and I keep the mouth piece. So I figure "WTF" and take the mouth piece out, stick it on my finger so as not to loose it and then give him my octo and we do the budy beathing thing passing it back and forth. I was so darn dense that it took untill we got to that stange, of passng the reg back and forth that I notice who this guy is. He is one of the instructors. It's harder to do the buddy breathing when you are laughing.

OK so why say this now? In a real OOA situation the OOA diver is NOT going to make the OOA signal and ask first. He will be near paniced and will agressivly go after your primary reg. And if it is one of those well fittig costom types the thing will not let itself be pulled out and will come apart.

This same exact thing happened one other time too. I was getting out and near the surface headed to shore but the surf was up. I wave got me. I know I flipped over and my fins caught air. I'm now under water again and take a breath off the reg and get water. I try and clear it by blowing and than talke another a breath and more water. so I go for the purge valve and there is no reg. The mouth peice is there but the tumble in the wave ripped the reg loose. Again those "well fitting" things just don't want to be pulled out of the mouth. Good or bad I don't know.

ChrisA
04-23-2008, 18:20
It depends on the dive.

For an OW or Cavern dive I would be happy to breathe of anything for a few minutes.

2000' back in a cave with breathable air an hour away the last thing needed is added stress from a custom mouthpiece.

And on this subject a test: Why are the Apeks type mouthpieces (comfobite??) not DIR ?

They're not?

Apeks is now owned by Aqua Lung. My Apex reg came with the "standard" AL "comfobite". I actually like them and even my snorkle has one. Put them my denist saya I have an unusual bite, say it is very uncommon. The comfobite work for me.

I'm sure at least 99% of Apeks users are plain old OW divers doing rec dives at resort locations.

ianr33
04-23-2008, 19:02
Yeah, why wouldn't Apeks mouthpieces be DIR? I know some serious koolaid main-liners :smiley20: who use Apeks mouthpieces (at least I think they do).

Apparently the higher profile would make it more difficult to push the reg into the mouth of a toxing diver.

I know this is true because I read it somewhere on the Internet.

I use them !

CompuDude
04-23-2008, 19:03
It depends on the dive.

For an OW or Cavern dive I would be happy to breathe of anything for a few minutes.

2000' back in a cave with breathable air an hour away the last thing needed is added stress from a custom mouthpiece.

And on this subject a test: Why are the Apeks type mouthpieces (comfobite??) not DIR ?

They're not?

Apeks is now owned by Aqua Lung. My Apex reg came with the "standard" AL "comfobite". I actually like them and even my snorkle has one. Put them my denist saya I have an unusual bite, say it is very uncommon. The comfobite work for me.

I'm sure at least 99% of Apeks users are plain old OW divers doing rec dives at resort locations.

I'm well-familiar with AL's purchase of Apeks.

I still don't get why the Apeks comfo-bite thing is not DIR. I'm not sure that's a correct assertion. I don't see any major problem with them, and while I'm hardly the arbiter of all things DIR, I don't see why anyone else would, either.

ianr33
04-23-2008, 19:14
It depends on the dive.

For an OW or Cavern dive I would be happy to breathe of anything for a few minutes.

2000' back in a cave with breathable air an hour away the last thing needed is added stress from a custom mouthpiece.

And on this subject a test: Why are the Apeks type mouthpieces (comfobite??) not DIR ?

They're not?

Apeks is now owned by Aqua Lung. My Apex reg came with the "standard" AL "comfobite". I actually like them and even my snorkle has one. Put them my denist saya I have an unusual bite, say it is very uncommon. The comfobite work for me.

I'm sure at least 99% of Apeks users are plain old OW divers doing rec dives at resort locations.

I'm well-familiar with AL's purchase of Apeks.

I still don't get why the Apeks comfo-bite thing is not DIR. I'm not sure that's a correct assertion. I don't see any major problem with them, and while I'm hardly the arbiter of all things DIR, I don't see why anyone else would, either.

For what its worth:
Comfybite and DIR? - ScubaBoard (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/93499-comfybite-dir.html)

Personally I figure that if I ever have a seizure on a dive I'm as good as dead anyway so it does'nt really matter.

Dive-aholic
04-23-2008, 21:15
I love my comfobite mouthpieces. I just wish they didn't cost so much!



Yes, when OOG... any gas is good gas, custom mouthpiece or not. BUT, if I have my preference, I would much prefer to get a reg that fits me too.

Once, I had some one pull hard on my primary reg because they were OOA. Well not really. It was a class. We were told to go off and do some kind of navigation thing with a buddy. So we are off doing a 100 square. And then out of "no where" come this guy with no reg in his mouth, both his primary and seconday trailing as he swim fast and goes for mine. Only problem is that I had one of those "ultra good fittting" mouth piece and when he pulls he gets a reg and I keep the mouth piece. So I figure "WTF" and take the mouth piece out, stick it on my finger so as not to loose it and then give him my octo and we do the budy beathing thing passing it back and forth. I was so darn dense that it took untill we got to that stange, of passng the reg back and forth that I notice who this guy is. He is one of the instructors. It's harder to do the buddy breathing when you are laughing.

OK so why say this now? In a real OOA situation the OOA diver is NOT going to make the OOA signal and ask first. He will be near paniced and will agressivly go after your primary reg. And if it is one of those well fittig costom types the thing will not let itself be pulled out and will come apart.

This same exact thing happened one other time too. I was getting out and near the surface headed to shore but the surf was up. I wave got me. I know I flipped over and my fins caught air. I'm now under water again and take a breath off the reg and get water. I try and clear it by blowing and than talke another a breath and more water. so I go for the purge valve and there is no reg. The mouth peice is there but the tumble in the wave ripped the reg loose. Again those "well fitting" things just don't want to be pulled out of the mouth. Good or bad I don't know.

Why wouldn't you just breathe out of the reg without a mouthpiece. It's quite easy. Yes, I know this from experience...

beperkins
10-16-2008, 14:28
Once, I had some one pull hard on my primary reg because they were OOA. Well not really. It was a class. We were told to go off and do some kind of navigation thing with a buddy. So we are off doing a 100 square. And then out of "no where" come this guy with no reg in his mouth, both his primary and seconday trailing as he swim fast and goes for mine. Only problem is that I had one of those "ultra good fittting" mouth piece and when he pulls he gets a reg and I keep the mouth piece. So I figure "WTF" and take the mouth piece out, stick it on my finger so as not to loose it and then give him my octo and we do the budy beathing thing passing it back and forth. I was so darn dense that it took untill we got to that stange, of passng the reg back and forth that I notice who this guy is. He is one of the instructors. It's harder to do the buddy breathing when you are laughing.

OK so why say this now? In a real OOA situation the OOA diver is NOT going to make the OOA signal and ask first. He will be near paniced and will agressivly go after your primary reg. And if it is one of those well fittig costom types the thing will not let itself be pulled out and will come apart.

This same exact thing happened one other time too. I was getting out and near the surface headed to shore but the surf was up. I wave got me. I know I flipped over and my fins caught air. I'm now under water again and take a breath off the reg and get water. I try and clear it by blowing and than talke another a breath and more water. so I go for the purge valve and there is no reg. The mouth peice is there but the tumble in the wave ripped the reg loose. Again those "well fitting" things just don't want to be pulled out of the mouth. Good or bad I don't know.

That is an interesting thought for us, I wonder if there is any way to secure your mouthpiece to the reg better short of superglue?

MSilvia
10-16-2008, 14:41
I've seen people with shorter mouths gag on long sea cures.
Simple solution: trim your seacure. It's easy, comfortable, and solves the problem.

on a reg that is intended for donation, I wouldn't be very happy about it.
Frankly, my primary reg isn't intended for donation, it's intended for me to breathe. It's AVAILABLE for donation, but that's not the same thing. Frankly, I have very little interest in how anyone else feels about the mouthpiece I donate to them in an OOG situation. Your comfort is not high on my list of concerns when I'm saving your sorry ass. I'd actually prefer that you try as hard as you can to avoid the unpleasantness of needing to put my reg in your mouth, so I'm going to do what's more comfortable for me and just make sure it's adequate for you.

CompuDude
10-16-2008, 19:12
I've seen people with shorter mouths gag on long sea cures.
Simple solution: trim your seacure. It's easy, comfortable, and solves the problem.
As long as people do it, of course. Which is why I mention the problem. Most people don't think about it.



on a reg that is intended for donation, I wouldn't be very happy about it.
Frankly, my primary reg isn't intended for donation, it's intended for me to breathe. It's AVAILABLE for donation, but that's not the same thing. Frankly, I have very little interest in how anyone else feels about the mouthpiece I donate to them in an OOG situation. Your comfort is not high on my list of concerns when I'm saving your sorry ass. I'd actually prefer that you try as hard as you can to avoid the unpleasantness of needing to put my reg in your mouth, so I'm going to do what's more comfortable for me and just make sure it's adequate for you.

Duh?

beperkins
10-17-2008, 12:37
If truly in a desperate situation could you not rip the mouthpiece off of a reg and just breath off the oval?