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matt151617
04-10-2008, 22:11
Change the options to make 0, then 1-24, instead of 0-24, for number of dives logged. I don't think it's fair that someone who hasn't even taken a class yet counts the same as someone with 24 dives.

cmburch
04-11-2008, 02:45
I do not think it is meant as the person with the most wins. It may be useful as a tool when writing (vs talking) discussing equipment or experiences. Some who dive a lot do not list their dives. Some list their dives by the number of times they descend and surface while others list it by tank use or change of location.

mentalmarine
04-11-2008, 07:30
I agree with cmburch, it not supposed to be a compitition. Its just nice to know where people are coming from. Like when I offer my .02 they know I havnt been diving for long time compared to cmburch, his advice might hold a little more weight.

NoTime58
04-11-2008, 09:06
I agree with cmburch, it not supposed to be a compitition. Its just nice to know where people are coming from. Like when I offer my .02 they know I havnt been diving for long time compared to cmburch, his advice might hold a little more weight.


And I agree with the both of you, it's not a competition, it's just a "number". Some of the people posting on the forum don't list there total number of dives, but by the posts you read written by them you can tell they've been diving a while.

cummings66
04-11-2008, 16:46
Sometimes the number of dives doesn't mean much no matter what the number is. If you've got 100 dives and they're all 6 feet deep about all I can assume is you've probably got good buoyancy. If your dives are in the Ocean and all below 100 feet I can draw a much different conclusion.

If they're all low vis, or good vis, you get the point. A number doesn't really indicate how you will do in a different environment. Obviously to an extent that's not accurate, a guy with 1000 dives will probably do fine with low vis environment.

I kind of think the number of hours you have might be a better scale to rate divers on.

texdiveguy
04-11-2008, 16:59
I had heard that Larry was giving discounts based on the number of dives a forum member has logged............................................ ...........................yea right--LOL

navyhmc
04-11-2008, 17:39
To be honest, I quit logging dives years ago. Last one logged was somewhere around 750. I have since lost that log and have had to restart. I'm thinking about deep and possibly Tech so I have to start logging again.

matt151617
04-12-2008, 01:19
I didn't mean it as a competition, just as a better way of keeping track of experience... more of differentiating the noobs from the veterans.

FishFood
04-12-2008, 02:00
I didn't mean it as a competition, just as a better way of keeping track of experience... more of differentiating the noobs from the veterans.

I wouldnt call someone with 24 dives a veteran :smiley2:

I do get what you're saying however. With 0-24 you can't tell if the user is certified yet. Could help in answering questions if that info is known, and not everyone comes right out and says it.

UCFKnightDiver
04-12-2008, 02:06
Matt if someone fills out there profile theres a not certified yet in the diving agency section or an agency if you fill it out

Black-Gorrilla
04-12-2008, 11:14
but that info doesn't show up...

mobeeno
04-12-2008, 11:18
After logging quite a few cold water dives I thought diving the tropics would be easy. However on the first tropical dive, I used up so much air quickly because my weighting was all different, the current was strong and I could see so far in all directions.

CompuDude
04-12-2008, 12:05
I didn't mean it as a competition, just as a better way of keeping track of experience... more of differentiating the noobs from the veterans.

I wouldnt call someone with 24 dives a veteran :smiley2:

I do get what you're saying however. With 0-24 you can't tell if the user is certified yet. Could help in answering questions if that info is known, and not everyone comes right out and says it.

Frankly, the difference between someone with 0 dives and the someone with 1 dive is pretty negligible also. At 1 dive, you're not finished getting certified, and your skills certainly all that developed.

And honestly, how many people with 0 dives hang out on dive forums? If they're into it enough to be hanging out here, they're going to be getting certified soon enough.

May as well leave it as it is, IMO.

I do agree that someone with 24 dives or less is not exactly an old pro at diving.

Wolfie2012
05-02-2008, 10:42
I really hope nobody is placing any weight on how many dives it says in somebodies profile. It's not like anybody is verifying it. It's much more intelligent to judge a person's knowledge based upon what they say rather than what they choose in the drop-down list for # of dives.

Besides that, even somebody being truthful about the number of dives can be an idiot - whether it's 1000+ or 24.

CompuDude
05-02-2008, 11:53
I really hope nobody is placing any weight on how many dives it says in somebodies profile. It's not like anybody is verifying it. It's much more intelligent to judge a person's knowledge based upon what they say rather than what they choose in the drop-down list for # of dives.

Besides that, even somebody being truthful about the number of dives can be an idiot - whether it's 1000+ or 24.

If someone is spouting off like an expert, and yet saying things are blatantly wrong, and I look and see they have listed 0-24 dives, you can be sure I'm going to give some weight to the number of dives posted when I correct them.

They either need to learn a little more before posting, or they're liars. Hopefully the former. Anyone who purposely lies deserves any grief they get.

rawalker
05-02-2008, 12:28
Not that it would help with verification or even suggest knowledge or experience but I'd like to see a dive frequency number based on the prior year or maybe an average of 3 years with notes of divers active for less than 3 years.

Once a year
Twice a Year
Quarterly
Every other month
Monthly
More often than monthly

This may serve to show those that are actively practicing and learning.

A diver who is active and expanding their abilities may have more to offer than a diver with 200 logged dives over 10 years and the first 150 dives logged over 9 years ago.

elijahb
05-02-2008, 13:58
Change the options to make 0, then 1-24, instead of 0-24, for number of dives logged. I don't think it's fair that someone who hasn't even taken a class yet counts the same as someone with 24 dives.
I agree why not 1-23 ( basic open water) 24-x advanced open water?

hoobascooba
05-02-2008, 22:19
i'm at 14 "logged" dives... just in case if anybody wished to know.

hoobascooba
05-02-2008, 22:24
I do agree that someone with 24 dives or less is not exactly an old pro at diving.


if you dove with me, you would NOT know that I'm still *new* at diving, unless I told you. I promise you that. Well crap, I kinda just did, didn't I? lol

Last Sunday was my first dive boat dives, nobody knew it.

CompuDude
05-02-2008, 22:34
I do agree that someone with 24 dives or less is not exactly an old pro at diving.

if you dove with me, you would NOT know that I'm still *new* at diving, unless I told you. I promise you that. Well crap, I kinda just did, didn't I? lol

Last Sunday was my first dive boat dives, nobody knew it.

So how many OOA divers have you dealt with in your diving career? How many new diver questions have you fielded? How many dry dives in 45 degree water that exceeded recreational limits? How many beach entries through 5' surf? How many times have you had to execute a search pattern to find a missing buddy in water with 3' vis... in the clear places? I'm not asking if all of these things were done flawlessly... but were they done at all? And can you therefore actually know what they're like?

Experience brings all kinds of extras to the table that might not be immediately apparent. Inexperience brings all kinds of "holes in knowledge" that also might not be immediately apparent... to the new diver, OR the casual observer.

Some people are naturals... and if they are (and you are), kudos. But that doesn't mean we should give your advice the same weight as an instructor with 15,000 dives who has been teaching diving since 1965. It doesn't mean we should ignore, you either... and I wouldn't. But you have to realize that there IS at least some correlation here.

texdiveguy
05-02-2008, 23:27
I am not real big on dive count either being much of a guild or indicator of a divers abilities or skills.

I know divers that are under the 200 count in 3-4 years of sport diving that are really good! I also know a good number of recreational instructors that list thousands of dives to their career...the great bulk are 20-25 minute dives to 20-30ft. with students and many are at the same local location year after year. IMO alot more to this than dive count....at best it is a rough indicator of in water time thats all. But like everything else there are exceptional exceptions to my observation.

jwdizney
05-03-2008, 08:36
Sometimes the number of dives doesn't mean much no matter what the number is. If you've got 100 dives and they're all 6 feet deep about all I can assume is you've probably got good buoyancy.

We can log dives to 6 feet?... I guess I need to change my profile!..:smiley36:

hoobascooba
05-03-2008, 09:05
I do agree that someone with 24 dives or less is not exactly an old pro at diving.

if you dove with me, you would NOT know that I'm still *new* at diving, unless I told you. I promise you that. Well crap, I kinda just did, didn't I? lol

Last Sunday was my first dive boat dives, nobody knew it.

So how many OOA divers have you dealt with in your diving career? How many new diver questions have you fielded? How many dry dives in 45 degree water that exceeded recreational limits? How many beach entries through 5' surf? How many times have you had to execute a search pattern to find a missing buddy in water with 3' vis... in the clear places? I'm not asking if all of these things were done flawlessly... but were they done at all? And can you therefore actually know what they're like?

Experience brings all kinds of extras to the table that might not be immediately apparent. Inexperience brings all kinds of "holes in knowledge" that also might not be immediately apparent... to the new diver, OR the casual observer.

Some people are naturals... and if they are (and you are), kudos. But that doesn't mean we should give your advice the same weight as an instructor with 15,000 dives who has been teaching diving since 1965. It doesn't mean we should ignore, you either... and I wouldn't. But you have to realize that there IS at least some correlation here.

I agree totally to the correlation between number of dives and 'experience'. But again, it's not always the best rule of thumb (someone with 100+ dives could give bad advice [too confident, perhaps?] it happens, I've seen it). And I never said that my advice should have any more or any less, or even equal weight to the next diver that has way more "logged" dives than me.

As to your ?'s however, no, I've never had to deal with OOA divers in my diving hobby. I have answered many good questions of new divers, based on my own experience though. I will never repeat hearsay. I don't dry dive. But I have dove wet in 52 deg water, and could give real good advice in that regard. I've only made 1 beach dive entry in 3' surf, and that was not fun, I can tell you that much. As for the rest of your ?'s (which I realize they were hypothetical anyway), I'm getting finished with my AOW this weekend... so I'll get back to you after I've got a few more hundred dives under my belt... say 5 years???

Here's some good advice for relatively *new* divers [less than ~20 dives]: Don't answer ANY questions, unless you can PROVE your direct experience. For example, if you've only owned 1 BCD, you can't compare it to any other. Am I right, or what?

i'll shutup now.

hoobascooba
05-03-2008, 09:11
I think this is the best suggestion yet. Take out NUMBER of dives altogether. It's misleading anyway.


Not that it would help with verification or even suggest knowledge or experience but I'd like to see a dive frequency number based on the prior year or maybe an average of 3 years with notes of divers active for less than 3 years.

Once a year
Twice a Year
Quarterly
Every other month
Monthly
More often than monthly

This may serve to show those that are actively practicing and learning.

A diver who is active and expanding their abilities may have more to offer than a diver with 200 logged dives over 10 years and the first 150 dives logged over 9 years ago.

hoobascooba
05-03-2008, 09:17
I really hope nobody is placing any weight on how many dives it says in somebodies profile. It's not like anybody is verifying it. It's much more intelligent to judge a person's knowledge based upon what they say rather than what they choose in the drop-down list for # of dives.

Besides that, even somebody being truthful about the number of dives can be an idiot - whether it's 1000+ or 24.

If someone is spouting off like an expert, and yet saying things are blatantly wrong, and I look and see they have listed 0-24 dives, you can be sure I'm going to give some weight to the number of dives posted when I correct them.

They either need to learn a little more before posting, or they're liars. Hopefully the former. Anyone who purposely lies deserves any grief they get.

I won't mention any names... but seriously, I know of at least ONE diver that has listed more than 50 dives, talks like he's been diving for years, seems real intelligent too... but I'll tell you this: I've seen him post some erroneous information, not once, but a couple times. And not only on just THIS forum, but also on a couple others that I know of.

I'm pretty sure he won't be the first one I take advice from.

mm2002
05-25-2008, 19:13
What about people like me who have hundreds of dives, but show only a few on the forum profile so newbies won't be intimidated? Maybe we ask "newbie" questions under contract by ST just to help them sell more gear?


































Or maybe I'm just full of S**T! :smiley36:

DOWNDEEP73
05-26-2008, 01:00
Or maybe I'm just full of S**T! :smiley36:

Maybe? :smiley2:

Geoff_T
05-26-2008, 01:26
What about people like me who have hundreds of dives, but show only a few on the forum profile so newbies won't be intimidated? Maybe we ask "newbie" questions under contract by ST just to help them sell more gear?

Or maybe I'm just full of S**T! :smiley36:


Hey for what its worth I probialy only have like 30 or so logged. That is logged there was a point when I was diving probialy weekly for 2 years but did not log most dives as they were in the quarry and shallow. Or other locations that in my mind at the time just did not warrent me takeing the time to bother with logging them.

Geoff_T
05-26-2008, 01:32
Not that it would help with verification or even suggest knowledge or experience but I'd like to see a dive frequency number based on the prior year or maybe an average of 3 years with notes of divers active for less than 3 years.

Once a year
Twice a Year
Quarterly
Every other month
Monthly
More often than monthly

This may serve to show those that are actively practicing and learning.

A diver who is active and expanding their abilities may have more to offer than a diver with 200 logged dives over 10 years and the first 150 dives logged over 9 years ago.


I agree and I am one of those people you mentioned who has the majority of his dives loged 4 or more years ago. Though hopefully not for long.

mm2002
05-26-2008, 06:43
Actually, since it seems most folks agree that it takes 50 dives or so to be a decent diver, I think the dives logged should be 1-50, 50-100, over 100. The secondary could be the frequency of diving. Like was said, a diver who's been diving for 40 years with 100 dives may not be an extremely experienced person. On the other hand, someone who's been diving for 2 years and has 100 dives definitely has a little experience under their belt.

chinacat46
05-26-2008, 08:31
I don't really care about the whole logging issue. What I care is that the numbers are inconsistent. Here are the categories

0-24
25-50
51-100
101-500
500-1000
1000+

So what group am I in if I have 500 dives am I 101-500 or 500-1000?
Also think the groups should end on 49, 99, 499, 999 to be consistent with the first group which ends on 24.

thesmoothdome
05-26-2008, 11:34
This discussion is pretty amusing. #'s don't = experience, but neither does knowledge. I can read all about skydiving before I do it, but it's not like I can or should be giving advice on it. There's a big difference between understanding theories and having personal experience with a given circumstance. I don't care how many dives a person has, but rather their experience in the given situation.

When I did my IE back in 1992, we went off the beach at Corona Del Mar. The waves were in the 6-8 foot range. I had always found conditions like that fun (not anymore :)), but I could see the tension etched on the faces of my fellow candidates. Some opted not to make the entry, while others tried and failed. In their own way, I'm sure they're very qualified divers, for the conditions they were trained in. Would I want them teaching in California conditions? No. Not until they gain the practical experience to handle what the conditions out here can throw at them. Unfortunately, there's no number that can quantify that.

Zyxistal
05-26-2008, 13:36
So what group am I in if I have 500 dives am I 101-500 or 500-1000?



Neither, just go ahead and dive #501 to avoid confusion.

elijahb
05-26-2008, 14:03
So what group am I in if I have 500 dives am I 101-500 or 500-1000?



Neither, just go ahead and dive #501 to avoid confusion.
I think that is what most people do

Mycroft
05-26-2008, 15:00
Interesting dscussion, now to throw some monkey wrenches into the works.

My current count is just 130 dives over 10 years (next month). But this includes dives in many conditions, and some years were lean and others long. I never went 6 months between dives, though I came close once.

I have multiple dives in the pacific.
I have overhead experience.
I have been trained through rescue to Master Diver level.
I am still working on Cavern training.
I have a lot of dives in the caribean.
My dives range from 59 degrees on up.
I have 2 dives in a drysuit.
I have one self rescue under my belt.
I have one OOA rescue in an overhead environment to my credit.
I was rescued twice.

I was around 90 dives or so that I started to really feel comfortable in the water - in the middle of my first liveaboard trip.

My self recue was dive 13. Does this show experince or following the training? First time I was rescued I made some mistakes and ended up in the water with no mask and only one fin - but didn't panic. The second time was in kelp for the first time. I needed help getting out of it.

The rescue I did in an overhead. Am I glad I had over 100 dives behind me at that time! My buddy reached for my reg and I was ready for that.

Bottom line is that I don't offer a lot of advice anyway, other than to list things when people ask. Or I almost alway couch it in terms of what worked for me, not an absolute.

Of course, I am a wierdo anyway, still using film cameras underwater.

And I will always answer questions about uwatec computers, inside and out. Why, because even diving them, I also studied the computers thouroghly and can decipher their raw data.