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Black-Gorrilla
05-04-2008, 00:35
what is the depth that OW certifies you to?
SSI
Padi
NAUI
(if they differ)

Ryanh1801
05-04-2008, 00:41
For NAUI the recommended max depth for OW divers is 60 feet. Advanced diver is 100 feet.

navyhmc
05-04-2008, 00:44
Same for PADI.

Seems to be an industry standard.

How deep you looking to go B-G? :D

DivingCRNA
05-04-2008, 08:07
BTW-All the way to the bottom is always an option. Sometimes getting back to the surface is the tricky part.

There are no SCUBA Police. Please use some sense in planning your dives.

Trey9123
05-04-2008, 08:20
SSI is 60' too

in_cavediver
05-04-2008, 16:29
The one thing to remember is by agency standards, 130' is the depth limit if your training. Padi and other have a 60' max recommended depth for OW but its a recommendation, not a limit. The recommendations are only enforced as limits during training dives. Many dive operators also use the recommended limits as hard limits as well but its not universal.

Still, the most prudent diver knows his own limits and stays within them, irregardless what an agency says. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should idea.

Dive safe

texdiveguy
05-04-2008, 17:25
PADI O/W--60ft

Always dive within your comfort and safety zone that only you really know.

:)

frogman159
05-04-2008, 21:45
PADI O/W--60ft

Always dive within your comfort and safety zone that only you really know.

:)

Recently finished NAUI and I concur with the previously stated 60'

any deeper and additional training was recomended.

frogman159
05-04-2008, 21:46
I believe a deep dive is covered in NAUI AOW

wolfen42
05-05-2008, 22:45
I believe a deep dive is covered in NAUI AOW

PADI AOW also has a deep dive as an option.

texdiveguy
05-05-2008, 22:51
I believe a deep dive is covered in NAUI AOW

PADI AOW also has a deep dive as an option.

PADI AOW requires a 'deep' dive as one of the 5 dives for that cert. level.

ChrisA
05-05-2008, 23:30
PADI AOW requires a 'deep' dive as one of the 5 dives for that cert. level.

Yes they do but they define "deep" as below 60 feet and for liability reasons you will likely will not be allowed below 100 feet.

You don't learn much in one dive. You learn by advancing your experiance level in small baby steps and by asking questions and reading but mostly by just diving

If you want to learn the #1 thing to know is how to compute your "turn pressure" that is the PSI where you need to turn around.

I'll admit to miss-computing this last Saturday. A bunch of us did a wreck dive to 97 feet. I used a to conservative number and ended up with 400 psi more than planned at the surface. I should have used paper and pencil rather then just using a number I knew for sure would work. Yes I know it beats runnig out of air but I hate to bring air back that I could have used safely underwater.

One other instructive thing I did once was to lay out a rope 100 feet long along a sandy bottom and measure the number of kick cycles and time needed to swim 100 feet at a "normal" speed. One you do this you will have a lot more respect for what 100 feet of depth means. It takes a long time to swim 100 feet

maggs_the
05-06-2008, 06:07
The one thing to remember is by agency standards, 130' is the depth limit if your training. Padi and other have a 60' max recommended depth for OW but its a recommendation, not a limit. The recommendations are only enforced as limits during training dives. Many dive operators also use the recommended limits as hard limits as well but its not universal.

Still, the most prudent diver knows his own limits and stays within them, irregardless what an agency says. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should idea.

Dive safe

fresh out of OW class i took Nitrox and had a grand total of 8 dives under my belt (including the 5 OW checkout dives and 3 other quarry dives) when I went to Key West for my Nitrox checkout dives. First dive was to 91 feet.

i rememered SSI told me 130 was rec limits, but i did not remember them telling me 60 was rec limits for non-AOW.

oops.

i am now considered AOW with SSI and my deepest dive was 114 feet but i have never taken the SSI Deep Dive class.

wolfen42
05-06-2008, 06:45
PADI AOW requires a 'deep' dive as one of the 5 dives for that cert. level.Yes they do but they define "deep" as below 60 feet and for liability reasons you will likely will not be allowed below 100 feet.

You don't learn much in one dive. You learn by advancing your experiance level in small baby steps and by asking questions and reading but mostly by just diving

If you want to learn the #1 thing to know is how to compute your "turn pressure" that is the PSI where you need to turn around.

I'll admit to miss-computing this last Saturday. A bunch of us did a wreck dive to 97 feet. I used a to conservative number and ended up with 400 psi more than planned at the surface. I should have used paper and pencil rather then just using a number I knew for sure would work. Yes I know it beats runnig out of air but I hate to bring air back that I could have used safely underwater.

One other instructive thing I did once was to lay out a rope 100 feet long along a sandy bottom and measure the number of kick cycles and time needed to swim 100 feet at a "normal" speed. One you do this you will have a lot more respect for what 100 feet of depth means. It takes a long time to swim 100 feet

Interesting. We did the kick cycle measurement thing with 100 feet of rope as part of our PADI navigation dive. I was actually a bit disturbed at how short 100 feet seemed to my eyes compared to how long it took to swim.

Black-Gorrilla
05-06-2008, 08:28
Same for PADI.

Seems to be an industry standard.

How deep you looking to go B-G? :D

i was just wondering... because i hear one thing from one person, then another from someone else and so on.... I remember being told more than 60 but could not remember the actual number. the deepest i've done is 85', and stayed within the NDlimits...


PADI O/W--60ft

Always dive within your comfort and safety zone that only you really know.

:)

I've never been uncomfortable in any of my dives.... i've never "pushed it" or anything like that.

cummings66
05-06-2008, 12:32
Ok, so now we know you exceeded the suggested limits. Big deal. If you know how to deal with things then it's safe for you to go deeper.

Many things play into that, do you know how to plan your dive around your air consumption? Do you know the additional stresses you'll run across? Do you feel comfortable? Do you have a backup in case things go south?

Basically, the limits are there to slow you down until you get to where you know those things and then it's time to move forwards.

To me 60 feet deep isn't a big deal, but to others it could very well be. I've seen divers go OOA there, that's a big deal.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
05-06-2008, 13:11
If you are willing to make one-way dives, the only limit is the sand and your available gas supply :smiley2:

BTW, there *are* scuba police in some places. I know some people who were prohibted from going below 100 ft by a DM on one of their trips because they did not have deep diver cards. It didn't matter that they each had over 100 dives with dozens below 100 ft in the open ocean offshore NC. Somehow they weren't qualified to to go to 120 in a more benign environment.

Also, FWIW, by the time I finish my deep diver checkout dives I will have been below 100 ft many times. Checkout dives were blown out multiple times last year and the shop doesn't offer any more until September. No way I'm going to let the absence of a card keep me from making the dives I am physically, mentally, and psychologically equipped to make. I probably should just ask the shop for a refund and spend the cash on a dive charter.

maggs_the
05-06-2008, 15:14
BTW, there *are* scuba police in some places. I know some people who were prohibted from going below 100 ft by a DM on one of their trips because they did not have deep diver cards. It didn't matter that they each had over 100 dives with dozens below 100 ft in the open ocean offshore NC. Somehow they weren't qualified to to go to 120 in a more benign environment.


wow.. where did this happen? i havent heard anything like this before. i have heard rumors of people being refused for not having their AOW cards but never actually met any of them or knew the specifics of the dives. the Flower Gardens trip i took strongly recommended having AOW but even then, i dont know recall it being a deal breaker if you didnt have it.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
05-06-2008, 15:23
It was in the Gulf of Mexico: Oriskany

spatman
05-06-2008, 15:26
BTW, there *are* scuba police in some places. I know some people who were prohibted from going below 100 ft by a DM on one of their trips because they did not have deep diver cards. It didn't matter that they each had over 100 dives with dozens below 100 ft in the open ocean offshore NC. Somehow they weren't qualified to to go to 120 in a more benign environment.


wow.. where did this happen? i havent heard anything like this before. i have heard rumors of people being refused for not having their AOW cards but never actually met any of them or knew the specifics of the dives. the Flower Gardens trip i took strongly recommended having AOW but even then, i dont know recall it being a deal breaker if you didnt have it.


several charters out of the florida keys will refuse to take divers to some of the deeper wrecks unless they either show them an AOW cert card or a logbook in which they have logged a certain number of deep dives within the past six months or somesuch.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
05-06-2008, 15:45
several charters out of the florida keys will refuse to take divers to some of the deeper wrecks unless they either show them an AOW cert card or a logbook in which they have logged a certain number of deep dives within the past six months or somesuch.

It's pretty much the same here. Typical is wanting either an AOW card or 20 dives including at least 2 exceeding 100 ft and 1 boat dive within the past 12 months. I find it a little strange since you can get AOW through PADI with only 9 dives and with only 1 exceeding 60 ft.

On my last charter they asked for my nitrox card even though I brought my own tanks. On the one before that, they filled my tanks with 30% and never asked for a card. Go figure.

Black-Gorrilla
05-06-2008, 17:06
Ok, so now we know you exceeded the suggested limits. Big deal. If you know how to deal with things then it's safe for you to go deeper.

Many things play into that, do you know how to plan your dive around your air consumption? Do you know the additional stresses you'll run across? Do you feel comfortable? Do you have a backup in case things go south?

Basically, the limits are there to slow you down until you get to where you know those things and then it's time to move forwards.

To me 60 feet deep isn't a big deal, but to others it could very well be. I've seen divers go OOA there, that's a big deal.

we plan... and double check with everyone to be comfortable... aways have plenty of outs (multiple ponys used in case of emergency) and everyone that i dive with i know... (other than keys charters)

CompuDude
05-06-2008, 17:12
Technically, PADI's *recommended* limits are:

OW- 60'
AOW- 100'
Deep Specialty- 130'

Those limits are pretty much going to be enforced during training... after that, it's up to you, but they're pretty good recommendations, IMO. Experience can be just as good of a teacher as class, but the class can also teach you things you hadn't considered before. And it's not a bad idea at all to be experiencing narcosis in the presence of an instructor or other person who is well-qualified to keep an eye on you under it's influence.

elijahb
05-06-2008, 22:06
15/24 AOW dives were at between 80 and 100 feet for the max depth. We also did the deep dive speciality at the same time as our AOW

texdiveguy
05-06-2008, 22:09
15/24 AOW dives were at between 80 and 100 feet for the max depth. We also did the deep dive speciality at the same time as our AOW


??? 15/24

NEVER MIND....It finally soaked in....dives 15 thru 24 were done at....

DarinMartell
05-07-2008, 10:21
Technically, PADI's *recommended* limits are:

OW- 60'
AOW- 100'
Deep Specialty- 130'

Those limits are pretty much going to be enforced during training... after that, it's up to you, but they're pretty good recommendations, IMO. Experience can be just as good of a teacher as class, but the class can also teach you things you hadn't considered before. And it's not a bad idea at all to be experiencing narcosis in the presence of an instructor or other person who is well-qualified to keep an eye on you under it's influence.

If PADI's rule is that one of the 5 specialties you take while doing AOW is deep wouldn't that make AOW 130' ?

texdiveguy
05-07-2008, 10:33
Technically, PADI's *recommended* limits are:

OW- 60'
AOW- 100'
Deep Specialty- 130'

Those limits are pretty much going to be enforced during training... after that, it's up to you, but they're pretty good recommendations, IMO. Experience can be just as good of a teacher as class, but the class can also teach you things you hadn't considered before. And it's not a bad idea at all to be experiencing narcosis in the presence of an instructor or other person who is well-qualified to keep an eye on you under it's influence.

If PADI's rule is that one of the 5 specialties you take while doing AOW is deep wouldn't that make AOW 130' ?

Comp is correct...the one 'deep' dive is an Adventure Deep dive in the PADI AOW program, this allows according to PADI's recomm. 100ft.. This one dive then can be applied towards the PADI Deep Diver Spec. rating which moves the bar to 130ft..

cummings66
05-07-2008, 10:36
And it's not a bad idea at all to be experiencing narcosis in the presence of an instructor or other person who is well-qualified to keep an eye on you under it's influence.

The problem is, the instructor is also narc'd. Who's keeping and eye on him while he's looking out for you? Air down deep has a nasty habit of affecting everybody, nobody is immune no matter how many dives you've got.

texdiveguy
05-07-2008, 10:56
And it's not a bad idea at all to be experiencing narcosis in the presence of an instructor or other person who is well-qualified to keep an eye on you under it's influence.

The problem is, the instructor is also narc'd. Who's keeping and eye on him while he's looking out for you? Air down deep has a nasty habit of affecting everybody, nobody is immune no matter how many dives you've got.

OK, I have my bowl of popcorn and A&W Root Beer.

CompuDude
05-07-2008, 12:25
And it's not a bad idea at all to be experiencing narcosis in the presence of an instructor or other person who is well-qualified to keep an eye on you under it's influence.

The problem is, the instructor is also narc'd. Who's keeping and eye on him while he's looking out for you? Air down deep has a nasty habit of affecting everybody, nobody is immune no matter how many dives you've got.

That's an entirely different issue, and you know it. I'd rather have them down there with a narc'd instructor than an equally narc'd, equally new, buddy.

CompuDude
05-07-2008, 12:26
Technically, PADI's *recommended* limits are:

OW- 60'
AOW- 100'
Deep Specialty- 130'

Those limits are pretty much going to be enforced during training... after that, it's up to you, but they're pretty good recommendations, IMO. Experience can be just as good of a teacher as class, but the class can also teach you things you hadn't considered before. And it's not a bad idea at all to be experiencing narcosis in the presence of an instructor or other person who is well-qualified to keep an eye on you under it's influence.

If PADI's rule is that one of the 5 specialties you take while doing AOW is deep wouldn't that make AOW 130' ?

The "specialties" in AOW are more like "intro to..." specialties. It's not the same as the full "Deep" specialty course.

cummings66
05-07-2008, 14:29
That's an entirely different issue, and you know it.

I do know it, and I really do think for the first few times it's a good idea to have an experienced diver there. They are more likely to see the problems even if they themselves are narc'd.

It does go back to the argument of deep dives on air not being a great idea due to narcosis.

georoc01
05-07-2008, 14:36
BTW, there *are* scuba police in some places. I know some people who were prohibted from going below 100 ft by a DM on one of their trips because they did not have deep diver cards. It didn't matter that they each had over 100 dives with dozens below 100 ft in the open ocean offshore NC. Somehow they weren't qualified to to go to 120 in a more benign environment.


wow.. where did this happen? i havent heard anything like this before. i have heard rumors of people being refused for not having their AOW cards but never actually met any of them or knew the specifics of the dives. the Flower Gardens trip i took strongly recommended having AOW but even then, i dont know recall it being a deal breaker if you didnt have it.


several charters out of the florida keys will refuse to take divers to some of the deeper wrecks unless they either show them an AOW cert card or a logbook in which they have logged a certain number of deep dives within the past six months or somesuch.

When we were out in Australia they pretty much held us to the PADI requirements. I had my deep speciality card, but not with me. Not that I was looking to go below 100' anyway. Just added it to the cards I carry now, along with my AOW and Enriched air.

DOWNDEEP73
05-07-2008, 15:43
I got certified at 45', but then went to Curacoa and did a 120' dive called the "Car Pile". I probably wasn't ready for it but I made it back alive!

spatman
05-07-2008, 16:59
I got certified at 45', but then went to Curacoa and did a 120' dive called the "Car Pile". I probably wasn't ready for it but I made it back alive!

many of have similar stories. "you don't know what you don't know"...

so the guide's decision to take me down to 115' on an AL80, knowing that i had less than 10 dives in my logbook, was a smart move? aw heck, why not? :smiley21:

texdiveguy
05-07-2008, 17:02
so the guide's decision to take me down to 115' on an AL80, knowing that i had less than 10 dives in my logbook, was a smart move? aw heck, why not? :smiley21:

That was not the 'guides' decision to take you to 115ft., that was your decision to 'follow' him/her....we each control our own destiny underwater when it comes to these choices.

spatman
05-07-2008, 17:11
That was not the 'guides' decision to take you to 115ft., that was your decision to 'follow' him/her....we each control our own destiny underwater when it comes to these choices.

my point was that i didn't have the experience or the frame of reference to know it was a bad idea. and the guide should have known better than to take a total noob to such depths.

and as a guide he has the ability to control others' destinies underwater as well.

texdiveguy
05-07-2008, 17:34
That was not the 'guides' decision to take you to 115ft., that was your decision to 'follow' him/her....we each control our own destiny underwater when it comes to these choices.

my point was that i didn't have the experience or the frame of reference to know it was a bad idea. and the guide should have known better than to take a total noob to such depths.

and as a guide he has the ability to control others' destinies underwater as well.

Did you not go through a dive course and become certified?

I hope part of the instruction included such topics as diver responsibility and topics like suggested new diver dive profiles....they did when I took the class!

The guide has no control outside that 'allowed' by any given diver to control your destiny underwater. Were are you coming up with this?

You and only you are in control of your dive....don't allow yourself into the 'follow-me' dive situations.....if you are not ready for 115ft then 'call' the dive if it is apparent your team of divers is leaving your experience/comfort zone---this should have been covered in the briefing as to depth of the dive in question you referenced.

Not trying to be an A Hole hear, but I hope you understand your responsibilities to yourself as a safe diver.

Make sure that your future team/buddy dives include a clear understanding of the profiles and goal of the dive....and remember there is NO shame in turning the dive or refusing to go beyond your persl. limits once a given dive is underway.

spatman
05-07-2008, 17:46
That was not the 'guides' decision to take you to 115ft., that was your decision to 'follow' him/her....we each control our own destiny underwater when it comes to these choices.

my point was that i didn't have the experience or the frame of reference to know it was a bad idea. and the guide should have known better than to take a total noob to such depths.

and as a guide he has the ability to control others' destinies underwater as well.

Did you not go through a dive course and become certified?

I hope part of the instruction included such topics as diver responsibility and topics like suggested new diver dive profiles....they did when I took the class!

The guide has no control outside that 'allowed' by any given diver to control your destiny underwater. Were are you coming up with this?

You and only you are in control of your dive....don't allow yourself into the 'follow-me' dive situations.....if you are not ready for 115ft then 'call' the dive if it is apparent your team of divers is leaving your experience/comfort zone---this should have been covered in the briefing as to depth of the dive in question you referenced.

Not trying to be an A Hole hear, but I hope you understand your responsibilities to yourself as a safe diver.

Make sure that your future team/buddy dives include a clear understanding of the profiles and goal of the dive....and remember there is NO shame in turning the dive or refusing to go beyond your persl. limits once a given dive is underway.

i'm not trying to be an A-hole either.

yes, i was newly certified through PADI, and their "recommendation" was that new OW divers stay with 60'. but there was little information as to WHY that limit is 60'. and as i stated earlier, i didn't know what i didn't know. namely the effects of narcosis and the risks of travelling to such depths on an 80cf tank.

the guide has the ability to control others destinies by determining that they do not have the skill level required for a particular dive profile and calling the dive, thereby eliminating any risks to divers who are in his/her charge.

each diver is not only responsible for themselves, they are also responsible for the divers they dive with. now that i have much more experience than i did then, i will not hesitate to call a dive if it is beyond my comfort level, or beyond the skill set of those that i am diving with.

cummings66
05-07-2008, 17:47
I agree, every diver should be capable of saying "no" to a dive without worry. It's something that can someday save your life.

I've told my buddy no to a dive that I'd make but I know he doesn't have the skills to. I said no hoping he'd take the hint. Mother Nature has solved the issue for now and perhaps with time I will say yes to the dive.

The point is, as a diver if you feel uncertain about a dive, if you know it's beyond anything you've ever done before, you might just want to say no. Doesn't matter if he's a DM or an Instructor Trainer. They may assume that if you say yes you are capable of the dive, without the cert saying so.

Many divers are capable of advanced dives without ever taking a course beyond OW, so the pros will sometimes leave it to the diver to say if they're good to go instead of carding you.

texdiveguy
05-07-2008, 17:58
That was not the 'guides' decision to take you to 115ft., that was your decision to 'follow' him/her....we each control our own destiny underwater when it comes to these choices.

my point was that i didn't have the experience or the frame of reference to know it was a bad idea. and the guide should have known better than to take a total noob to such depths.

and as a guide he has the ability to control others' destinies underwater as well.

Did you not go through a dive course and become certified?

I hope part of the instruction included such topics as diver responsibility and topics like suggested new diver dive profiles....they did when I took the class!

The guide has no control outside that 'allowed' by any given diver to control your destiny underwater. Were are you coming up with this?

You and only you are in control of your dive....don't allow yourself into the 'follow-me' dive situations.....if you are not ready for 115ft then 'call' the dive if it is apparent your team of divers is leaving your experience/comfort zone---this should have been covered in the briefing as to depth of the dive in question you referenced.

Not trying to be an A Hole hear, but I hope you understand your responsibilities to yourself as a safe diver.

Make sure that your future team/buddy dives include a clear understanding of the profiles and goal of the dive....and remember there is NO shame in turning the dive or refusing to go beyond your persl. limits once a given dive is underway.

i'm not trying to be an A-hole either.

yes, i was newly certified through PADI, and their "recommendation" was that new OW divers stay with 60'. but there was little information as to WHY that limit is 60'. and as i stated earlier, i didn't know what i didn't know. namely the effects of narcosis and the risks of travelling to such depths on an 80cf tank.

the guide has the ability to control others destinies by determining that they do not have the skill level required for a particular dive profile and calling the dive, thereby eliminating any risks to divers who are in his/her charge.

each diver is not only responsible for themselves, they are also responsible for the divers they dive with. now that i have much more experience than i did then, i will not hesitate to call a dive if it is beyond my comfort level, or beyond the skill set of those that i am diving with.

I understand in 'general' your points--really!! :)

But I am sorry I do disagree as to the responsibility to a dive guide to determine each divers abilities prior to a dive....this is just not possible. You as a diver have that responsibility. GRANTED a good dive op will do the best they can to 'sort' out divers whom may not fit a partc. dive setting...but it is not their final choice in reality, its you the diver---no your limits and honor them.

I am only responsible for myself in the real world of diving, and you for yourself---this is a cold and many times hard to swallow fact for many!...and of course as a prudent and responsible caring diver I will always do and respond to you as my dive buddy as best I can short of risking beyond reason my well being or life if it came to that.

It is commendable that you have gained experience and understanding of your own limits and better understand and would act on situations were you need to just say 'no'. :)

Safe and fun diving always!

spatman
05-07-2008, 18:10
I understand in 'general' your points--really!! :)

But I am sorry I do disagree as to the responsibility to a dive guide to determine each divers abilities prior to a dive....this is just not possible. You as a diver have that responsibility. GRANTED a good dive op will do the best they can to 'sort' out divers whom may not fit a partc. dive setting...but it is not their final choice, its you the diver---no your limits and honor them.

I am only responsible for myself in the real world of diving, and you for yourself---this is a cold and many times hard to swallow fact for many!...and of course as a prudent and responsible caring diver I will always do and respond to you as my dive buddy as best I can short of risking beyond reason my safety or life if it came to that.

It is commendable that you have gain experience and understanding of your own limits and better understand and would act on situations were you need to just say 'no'. :)


i understand what you're saying about the guide. in my situation specifically, it was just me and him, and if i were in his shoes right now, i wouldn't be taking that brand new diver to 115' on an AL80.

but it is my turn to disagree on the responsibilities. yes, we are all responsible for ourselves. but my actions can affect the divers i am with and can put them in harms way if i don't consider them. therefore i do have some responsibilities to them as well. if we are only responsible for ourselves, then why do we equip ourselves with an extra second stage or plan our dives with calculations to include another diver breathing off our back gas in case of failure?

texdiveguy
05-07-2008, 18:28
I understand in 'general' your points--really!! :)

But I am sorry I do disagree as to the responsibility to a dive guide to determine each divers abilities prior to a dive....this is just not possible. You as a diver have that responsibility. GRANTED a good dive op will do the best they can to 'sort' out divers whom may not fit a partc. dive setting...but it is not their final choice, its you the diver---no your limits and honor them.

I am only responsible for myself in the real world of diving, and you for yourself---this is a cold and many times hard to swallow fact for many!...and of course as a prudent and responsible caring diver I will always do and respond to you as my dive buddy as best I can short of risking beyond reason my safety or life if it came to that.

It is commendable that you have gain experience and understanding of your own limits and better understand and would act on situations were you need to just say 'no'. :)


i understand what you're saying about the guide. in my situation specifically, it was just me and him, and if i were in his shoes right now, i wouldn't be taking that brand new diver to 115' on an AL80.

but it is my turn to disagree on the responsibilities. yes, we are all responsible for ourselves. but my actions can affect the divers i am with and can put them in harms way if i don't consider them. therefore i do have some responsibilities to them as well. if we are only responsible for ourselves, then why do we equip ourselves with an extra second stage or plan our dives with calculations to include another diver breathing off our back gas in case of failure?

I agree with you on your statement of diver to diver 'response'....I think you are missing the big picture here.....we are each responsible for our own out come on each and every dive (Period). I as a responsible diver never enter into a dive that I am not fully prepared to attempt to resolve my own issues regardless of their severity....I never enter a dive based on the fact that my buddy has the skill or gear to resolve it for me.

I am fully ready and willing to assist a fellow diver as we all should be---no argument on that one from me! But as a diver I also 'strive' for 100% insistance that my actions will not incur bad experiences for others I dive with.

We can discuss this till morning....but the fact of the matter is....you and I are responsible to our own selves on all dives.....and we as good divers should be prepared to offer aid to others in need underwater till we hit that limit of no return.

:)

spatman
05-07-2008, 18:34
I agree with you on your statement of diver to diver 'response'....I think you are missing the big picture here.....we are each responsible for our own out come on each and every dive (Period). I as a responsible diver never enter a dive that I am not fully prepared to attempt to resolve my own issues regardless of their severity....I never enter a dive based on the fact that my buddy has the skill or gear to resolve it for me, so I can just go and worry about it if the time comes.

I am fully ready and willing to assist a fellow diver as I should be---no argument on that one from me! But as a diver I 'strive' for 100% insistance that my actions will not incur bad experiences for others I dive with.

We can discuss this till morning....but the fact of the matter is....you and I are responsible to ourselves on all dives.....and we as good divers should be prepared to offer aid to others in need underwater till we hit that limit of no return.

:)

i'm not missing the big picture. i completely understand that i am responsible for myself first and foremost. all i'm saying is that there are additional responsibilities when diving with others, and they should be considered when planning or executing a dive.

i think we are basically on the same page, just having a discussion that is hampered by the internet...

CompuDude
05-07-2008, 18:35
I agree with you both, to a point. Yes, spatman probably should have thought things through and declined to the dive.

I can see his point, however, that the guide definitely should not have taken a new diver on a dive like that. And not every newly-matriculated diver received the fabulous PADI education where a true "thinking diver" was born right out of the chute. Sometimes it takes some experience to realize and learn what you didn't get in class (even though you were still handed that card).

In this country, the guide likely would have been charged with criminal negligence if something had happened (convicted, I don't know, but I strongly suspect at least charged... and definitely sued, whether they won or not... and it's so far beyond standards, they wouldn't have PADI to back them up). In third-world countries, they play the odds that nothing will go wrong, so they can put food on the table every day... and if something did go wrong, their [lack of] laws could get them out of it if something did happen.

texdiveguy
05-07-2008, 18:59
i think we are basically on the same page, just having a discussion that is hampered by the internet...

Agreed!!!

Enjoyed our visit....now if we can hook up and dive together that would be even better... :)

DivingCRNA
05-07-2008, 19:21
Wow, it is kind of looking like that "other" scuba board in here lately... :)

cummings66
05-07-2008, 20:53
Naw, I didn't see any bloodied noses. It really is hard to define what a persons responsibility is in black and white type. We all "feel" what we should do, and probably realize it as well.

The trouble comes when you get DM's and other pros who violate the normal standards for whatever reasons. It causes a lot of confusion, especially to those who are new to it. Imagine you being told, don't do this, and then the pro does it anyhow. What kind of message is that?

texdiveguy
05-07-2008, 21:07
Wow, it is kind of looking like that "other" scuba board in here lately... :)

Have no clue as to your reference..?

spatman
05-07-2008, 21:09
i think we are basically on the same page, just having a discussion that is hampered by the internet...

Agreed!!!

Enjoyed our visit....now if we can hook up and dive together that would be even better... :)

if you ever make to the Pacific Northwest, drop me a line...

texdiveguy
05-07-2008, 21:20
i think we are basically on the same page, just having a discussion that is hampered by the internet...

Agreed!!!

Enjoyed our visit....now if we can hook up and dive together that would be even better... :)

if you ever make to the Pacific Northwest, drop me a line...

Will do...I have never been and would truly love the opt to dive there. Thanks

spatman
05-07-2008, 22:15
Wow, it is kind of looking like that "other" scuba board in here lately... :)

no big deal. people are allowed to disagree. :) no hard feelings here.

wolfen42
05-07-2008, 22:46
I agree with you both, to a point. Yes, spatman probably should have thought things through and declined to the dive.

I can see his point, however, that the guide definitely should not have taken a new diver on a dive like that. And not every newly-matriculated diver received the fabulous PADI education where a true "thinking diver" was born right out of the chute. Sometimes it takes some experience to realize and learn what you didn't get in class (even though you were still handed that card).


Yeah, that aspect of things was REALLY emphasized in the PADI training we had, but then again our instructor was a PADI course director so he had a lot to contribute.... :)

CompuDude
05-07-2008, 22:54
Wow, it is kind of looking like that "other" scuba board in here lately... :)

no big deal. people are allowed to disagree. :) no hard feelings here.

And THAT'S the difference between this board and the other. :smiley31:

spatman
05-07-2008, 23:41
Wow, it is kind of looking like that "other" scuba board in here lately... :)

no big deal. people are allowed to disagree. :) no hard feelings here.

And THAT'S the difference between this board and the other. :smiley31:

everybody gather round for a group hug :klem: and a few verses of Kumbaya! :sing:

wolfen42
05-08-2008, 08:22
Wow, it is kind of looking like that "other" scuba board in here lately... :)

no big deal. people are allowed to disagree. :) no hard feelings here.

And THAT'S the difference between this board and the other. :smiley31:

everybody gather round for a group hug :klem: and a few verses of Kumbaya! :sing:

I disagree. I believe that odd numbers of people hugging creates an imbalance in the number of limbs each person has wrapped around them. Only even numbers of people should be allowed to hug.

Singing is a dangerous distraction from hugging and should be discouraged in any serious hugging venture.

spatman
05-08-2008, 08:28
everybody gather round for a group hug :klem: and a few verses of Kumbaya! :sing:

I disagree. I believe that odd numbers of people hugging creates an imbalance in the number of limbs each person has wrapped around them. Only even numbers of people should be allowed to hug.

Singing is a dangerous distraction from hugging and should be discouraged in any serious hugging venture.

</ aggro SB board member>

lol. :smilie39:

diver 85
07-10-2008, 00:15
Same for PADI.

Seems to be an industry standard.

How deep you looking to go B-G? :D


Where does the 130 come in to play(for PADI)???..........

severian
07-10-2008, 00:22
Wow, it is kind of looking like that "other" scuba board in here lately... :)

no big deal. people are allowed to disagree. :) no hard feelings here.

And THAT'S the difference between this board and the other. :smiley31:

everybody gather round for a group hug :klem: and a few verses of Kumbaya! :sing:

I disagree. I believe that odd numbers of people hugging creates an imbalance in the number of limbs each person has wrapped around them. Only even numbers of people should be allowed to hug.

Singing is a dangerous distraction from hugging and should be discouraged in any serious hugging venture.


I must speak up here! this is complete nonesense! Odd group hugging numbers have been proven time and again thru the literature to create a general sense of well being. Lupus and rheumatoid have been cured by odd limb embrace, and even fibromyalgia sufferers have noted relief (albeit brief) from their pain....:smilie40:

loadcp
08-20-2009, 11:49
130 is the limit. Acheivable through the Deep Diving after completing AOW.

loadcp
08-20-2009, 11:57
Now on a similar note....I was recently in the dve shop and talking to the Instructor about AOW and Deep Diving. My dedicated Dive Buddy has done both and I wanted to knock them out so that I didn't "limit" him on any dive he might want to do. I was told that the depths (60' and 100') are recommendations and not law (except 130'). That i could, in reality, dive however I wished, but also in doing that I was accepting that there are lots of spots I could find myself in that I have not be trained to handle. Now, I talked to my buddy, and being the good friends and responsible divers that we are...we have decided to stay within the recommeded limits for my training level and venture deeper as my training continues.