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snagel
05-12-2008, 18:07
Just got the new Evo 2 in from Scubatoys. Joe did it again, great price on a great suit.

For all you experts out there a couple questions about the seals (Latex).

How do you know if you have a good fit on the wrist and neck seal?
What is too tight and/or too loose?

What is the best method for trimming the seals if this is needed?

For me, I can get the wrist seals over my hands on my wrist, but the feel tight and pops the veins in my hands. The neck seal will go on, but it does feel a little tight. Not enough to cut off circulation obviously, but feels on the tight side.

I'm use to neoprene seals, so this is a little different.

S. Nagel

snagel
05-12-2008, 18:32
A follow-up....should I try and stretch the seals first?

S. Nagel

Splitlip
05-12-2008, 18:37
You need to work with someone who knows what he or she is doing. Have a friend or fellow diver who knows assist you. Don't cut anything yet.

Have you taken a DS class yet?

spatman
05-12-2008, 18:46
before you start cutting anything, you could try stuffing soda cans in the wrist seals and stretching the neck seal over the top of a tank. leave it that way for 24hrs and see if they are a bit more comfortable.

skdvr
05-12-2008, 18:59
I do not think that stretching the seals will do anyting for latex. It should go right back to where it was before. It works for Neoprene seals but not latex. I too would suggest having someone help you out with the cutting but if you cannot get someone or do not want to wait (which is the way that I was), you can do it yourself. I did not have to cut my wrist seals but I did have to cut my neck seal. It does not have to be SUPER tight but you need a good enough seal around you neck that you can move around with causing any gaps between your neck at the seal. When I did mine I just had my wife hold the seal flat while I SLOWLY trimmed off about a 1/4" then I tried it on again and it was still to tight so I trimmed another 1/4". I think I ended up doing it 3 times before I thought it was good. I actually thought it still felt a little tight but left it that way so I could dive it. After diving it I figured it was perfect. No leaks and it did not cause me to black out or to make my head look like a cherry. Just make sure you cut off small amounts and try it on and realize that it will feel a little different in the water...

So do you now have a backup suit or did you get rid of your other DS?

Phil

snagel
05-12-2008, 19:24
Thanks....

Yes, I have DS Cert.

Yes, I now own 2 suits...one crushed neoprene and the Evo 2. I just couldn't help myself and Joe gave me a great deal. The crushed neoprene is a great suit, but a little tight in the shoulders. I thought I would dive the Evo 2 a little and see if I like one more than the other. If I like them both, I will keep both with one for colder temps and one for warmer temps, or as a backup or as a loaner to my dive buddies who are just now going through the certification process. My last option would be to sell one of them (atleast that is what I told my wife).

I think I might hold off and make a dive or 2 without doing any trimming and see how it goes. I'm thinking the seals will relax a little. Although, I'm mechanically inclined, I'm a little nervous about trimming them. Maybe I will have somebody who has done it before help me out.

I guess a good gauge would be if I can get a finger around the seal it should be good. Right now I can, but it's a struggle.

S. Nagel

spatman
05-12-2008, 19:43
I do not think that stretching the seals will do anyting for latex. It should go right back to where it was before. It works for Neoprene seals but not latex.

my new latex neck seal was a bit too tight when it was first put on. after about 20 dives or so, it was much more comfortable. i'm guessing that the seal stretched a little bit since my neck didn't shrink.

tedwhiteva
05-12-2008, 19:48
I do not think that stretching the seals will do anyting for latex. It should go right back to where it was before. It works for Neoprene seals but not latex.

my new latex neck seal was a bit too tight when it was first put on. after about 20 dives or so, it was much more comfortable. i'm guessing that the seal stretched a little bit since my neck didn't shrink.

Or more likely you go used to it. Either way, a goo example of why to give it a couple of dives at least.

CompuDude
05-12-2008, 20:10
As long as you're not impairing circulation, definitely give it a couple of dives before you trim your latex seals. Mine definitely loosened up after a few dives, and I was lucky I hadn't trimmed them further (which I had intended to do but got busy).

As for the actual trimming, I highly recommend having an experienced friend show you, but I'll say that I've been very pleased with the results I've gotten from a plastic cutting board and a rotary exacto rolling cutter. You can find them at any JoAnn's or similar sewing supply store. I think even Staples and Office Depot carries them.

elijahb
05-12-2008, 20:48
I think you would be best to put in a weekend of diving (at least 4 dives) in the suit as it is before you trim it. If you trim it too much it may not seal... I bet you can just get used to it. My dive master recommended using barrier cream on your neck and then ky jelly to get the suit on and off easier

fireflock
05-12-2008, 22:40
For wrist seals, I stretch the seal over a can (soda or soup) and use a new exacto blade to slowly cut around the circle. Cut only a little, try it on, and do it again if you need to.

That's for connical seals, though. Doesn't the pinnacle come with bottle seals on the wrists?

CompuDude
05-13-2008, 03:37
For wrist seals, I stretch the seal over a can (soda or soup) and use a new exacto blade to slowly cut around the circle. Cut only a little, try it on, and do it again if you need to.

That's for connical seals, though. Doesn't the pinnacle come with bottle seals on the wrists?

Do you find you use a different method to cut conical seals vs. bottle seals? They're both latex, after all.

fireflock
05-13-2008, 06:19
The cone seals have rings, which make it easier to follow where you're cutting and easier to duplicate the same cut on the second side. My bottle seals don't have much taper, so you would have to cut a lot of seal to get much size difference. It might be better to get get a different size bottle seal to start with. I don't know....

CompuDude
05-13-2008, 13:23
The cone seals have rings, which make it easier to follow where you're cutting and easier to duplicate the same cut on the second side. My bottle seals don't have much taper, so you would have to cut a lot of seal to get much size difference. It might be better to get get a different size bottle seal to start with. I don't know....

Rings aren't inherent to cone seals, just the ones you happen to be using. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever had to trim bottle seals (the ones I used to have on my old DS fit perfectly out of the box), but I don't see much likelihood that I would use a different procedure if I did.

A chalk pencil, like the kind used by seamstresses, might assist in drawing a temporary line to follow on the cut, if that helps.

I cut straight through both layers at once, so there is no need to "duplicate the same cut on the second side".

fireflock
05-13-2008, 13:41
By second side, I meant the other arm.

cummings66
05-13-2008, 16:42
The key thing is measure twice and cut once.

I tried a method suggested by Viking, measure your body part for that seal, cut so that the seal is 25% smaller and try it out. For me that worked fine.

snagel
05-13-2008, 17:10
Beware....Stupid Question......

What is a connical seal vs. bottle seal?

Honestly, I took a drysuit class, but this was not covered.

S. Nagel

CompuDude
05-13-2008, 17:21
Beware....Stupid Question......

What is a connical seal vs. bottle seal?

Honestly, I took a drysuit class, but this was not covered.

S. Nagel

Bottle shaped:
http://www.ossystems.com/repair/dls-2t.gif

Cone-shaped is just a straight tapered cone.

snagel
05-14-2008, 18:00
Got it... Thanks....

I believe mine are then the bottle shaped; which, it doesn't make sense to trim.

S. Nagel

huvrr
05-17-2008, 03:48
thanks guys, my new suit should be in next week. I got the snap on gloves though so the neck will be my only concern.

LCF
05-17-2008, 11:42
It's been my experience that latex seals do relax over a few dives, so it's a good idea not to cut a neck seal, or cut it the absolute minimum required to dive it safely. You want them snug; mine feel slightly uncomfortable on land, but are fine in the water. You do NOT want them so tight that you get a headache or that your face changes color (impeding venous drainage from the head). If you have those symptoms with an uncut seal, you will need to trim it before diving the suit.

snagel
05-18-2008, 08:50
I made my first dive with the Pinnicle Evo 2 Saturday (5/17). Awesome suit, but that's for another thread. Before the dive, I did take a little off the neck seal and it feels a lot more comfortable. It was in my opinion too tight before and I was afraid of passing out especially under water. I left the wrist seals alone (bottle type). I did notice some pain on my right wrist (top), but think I might not have gotten the seal completely flat. After the dive, I did notice some tingling in my left hand (fingers). Not sure if this was really related to the seals or not, because I'm starting to notice some median nerve issues in my left hand. I'm going to leave them alone and see what happens. Not really sure if you can trim these type of seals anyway.

I think they are okay, because I have extremely small wrist and have to believe these are good.

S. Nagel

CompuDude
05-18-2008, 14:29
I made my first dive with the Pinnicle Evo 2 Saturday (5/17). Awesome suit, but that's for another thread. Before the dive, I did take a little off the neck seal and it feels a lot more comfortable. It was in my opinion too tight before and I was afraid of passing out especially under water. I left the wrist seals alone (bottle type). I did notice some pain on my right wrist (top), but think I might not have gotten the seal completely flat. After the dive, I did notice some tingling in my left hand (fingers). Not sure if this was really related to the seals or not, because I'm starting to notice some median nerve issues in my left hand. I'm going to leave them alone and see what happens. Not really sure if you can trim these type of seals anyway.

I think they are okay, because I have extremely small wrist and have to believe these are good.

S. Nagel

You can trim any type of seals (except neoprene, which you stretch instead of time). If your circulation is impaired, you should trim them down a bit.

Latex does relax over the first few dives, though, so don't trim over-enthusiastically or too early.

mm2002
05-19-2008, 08:39
It makes sense to me that you could trim the bottle type wrist seals. The part that seals over your wrists is pretty wide, which would create more tension. By trimming it, you'd create a narrower surface area, making it a bit easier to stretch, relieving some tension. NO?

Disclaimer: this theory comes from someone who's never even tried on a drysuit. :smiley2:

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
05-19-2008, 12:14
Latex does relax over the first few dives, though, so don't trim over-enthusiastically or too early.

Now you tell me ;)

I'm about to have a backup zip seal because I trimmed one of them a little too much. It seeps enough that my right wrist is wet after any dive of reasonable length. It's quite divable and I don't feel it during the dive. I keep finding other things to spend money on (like charters) but I know it's gotta be done.

CompuDude
05-20-2008, 00:09
mm2002: Yup, pretty much.

BouzoukiJoe: Hang onto that seal, once you replace it. You might want to try dry glove rings at some point, at which point the loose seal is less of a problem, and you can install it into your iffy seal and save the good ones for non-dryglove dives. :)