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Black-Gorrilla
08-06-2007, 00:09
i've worked at a paintball store, and we use to fill tanks to 4500-5000psi.. and not keep them in water while we did it...
so why are they filled under water? to keep them cool? to see if leaks occur?
if it is to keep them cool... would that not be useless reason withing a couple of fills??

thanks.

DirtyWaterIL
08-06-2007, 00:11
it is so you can fill the tank faster without it heating up too much

the gooch
08-06-2007, 00:13
From my understanding it is to cool the tanks. I have also heard that some people think it will help with shrapnel should a tank explode in to pieces (highly unlikely I would think).

Black-Gorrilla
08-06-2007, 00:14
extremely unlikely on that shrapnel idea...
but what about when shops fill a ton of tanks late on a Saturday... do the constantly add cold water? or whatever happens happens and the water doesn't really heat up too badly?
cause i know those little paintball tanks got pretty hot!!

texdiveguy
08-06-2007, 00:15
To simply make a mess....no meaningful reason for the practice....in my area I know of only one shop that does it.

ScubaToys Larry
08-06-2007, 00:15
They should not be filled in water. Luxfer has on their page somewhere, a note about that. That is an attempt to try to keep them cool so folks can "slam" them - but luxfer says a tank should never be filled faster than 300 psi per minute. If we just have one tank to fill, we'll still hook up several so they can all fill together and keep the fill rate down - and we don't put them in water.

If you fill at the proper rate, aluminum tanks don't heat up much... steel ones still do - so you have to take them slower still.

ScubaToys Larry
08-06-2007, 00:19
From my understanding it is to cool the tanks. I have also heard that some people think it will help with shrapnel should a tank explode in to pieces (highly unlikely I would think).


Yea.. doesn't help much.

http://www.napsd.com/tank5.jpg

"Gee. How come you guys won't fill my old US Divers tank made from T5351 aluminum? I had a Vis+!"

http://www.napsd.com/tank4.jpg

the gooch
08-06-2007, 00:24
Holy $h**

DirtyWaterIL
08-06-2007, 00:25
where are those pics from? the first scubatoys shop? jk

Black-Gorrilla
08-06-2007, 00:27
any casualties in that incident?

Black-Gorrilla
08-06-2007, 00:28
oh... the pink insulation is full of blood. doesn't look good.

ScubaToys Larry
08-06-2007, 00:31
where are those pics from? the first scubatoys shop? jk


It was from a Force E in Florida. The red on the insulation in the top photo is the blood of the guy who was filling the tanks. He lived, but lost part of a hand. This was one of the most publicized examples of what happens when stress load cracking occurs in the pre 1990 tanks. It's why we will not fill any tank before that date that is a luxfer, dacor, us divers, walter kiddie, etc.

Since that time, at least 6 other dive shops that I've heard about have had those tanks blow up either while filling, or one in someones car after being filled.

The pieces of the tank you see... it was in current hydro and vis. When this information surfaced, I scrapped all my old aluminum tanks.

Black-Gorrilla
08-06-2007, 00:41
holly jeez.
i will avoid anyone with 1990 and down tanks from now on... thats brutal stuff.

Dive-aholic
08-06-2007, 02:57
Here's a Luxfer link on SLC and alloy 6351 (http://www.luxfercylinders.com/support/faq/sustainedloadcracking-australia.shtml)

Actually, Luxfer stopped making the 6351 in 1988. Any tanks manufactured in the US in 1989 and after are okay. Also, Luxfer did make some non-6351 tanks prior to that, so not all pre-1989 tanks are evil.

PlatypusMan
08-06-2007, 07:09
Here's a Luxfer link on SLC and alloy 6351 (http://www.luxfercylinders.com/support/faq/sustainedloadcracking-australia.shtml)

Actually, Luxfer stopped making the 6351 in 1988. Any tanks manufactured in the US in 1989 and after are okay. Also, Luxfer did make some non-6351 tanks prior to that, so not all pre-1989 tanks are evil.

Okay---but do YOU want to take the chance?

I've said this many times: if I'm going to make an error, let it be on the side of caution.

No Misses
08-06-2007, 07:17
Sorry, I was wrong. I will not let it happen again :-)

Dive-aholic
08-06-2007, 08:22
Here's a Luxfer link on SLC and alloy 6351 (http://www.luxfercylinders.com/support/faq/sustainedloadcracking-australia.shtml)

Actually, Luxfer stopped making the 6351 in 1988. Any tanks manufactured in the US in 1989 and after are okay. Also, Luxfer did make some non-6351 tanks prior to that, so not all pre-1989 tanks are evil.

Okay---but do YOU want to take the chance?

I've said this many times: if I'm going to make an error, let it be on the side of caution.

It's not a chance. There's nothing wrong with pre-1989 tanks that aren't made from the 6351 alloy. I'm a certified cylinder inspector and I have my own compressor and fill my own tanks, even the couple I have that were manufactured in 1988. I don't pass or own anything I wouldn't be willing to fill myself.

ScubaToys Larry
08-06-2007, 08:39
It's not a chance. There's nothing wrong with pre-1989 tanks that aren't made from the 6351 alloy. I'm a certified cylinder inspector and I have my own compressor and fill my own tanks, even the couple I have that were manufactured in 1988. I don't pass or own anything I wouldn't be willing to fill myself.

Then I will send everyone who wants one of those tanks filled to you - as there are no shops or dive sites in the dallas area, and throughout most of Florida, or the rest of the country for that matter, that will fill them. Someone walks in with a tank that has a sticker that says vis+, you can buy those stickers on the net. And yes... of course it's a chance. There is a chance that any tank could blow up at any time. And if you look at the story surrounding those 6351 aluminum tanks... it's a bit scary.

The DOT issued a Safety Alert Bulletin back in 1994 regarding scuba tanks made out of alloy 6351-T6.

For a 2 year period Luxfer offered a trade in program to anyone who had one toward a new tank. From a business standpoint, if Luxfer made the claim these tanks were not safe, they would be forced by the consumer protection agency to do a recall and replacement of all that series tank which would bankrupt the company.

There have been about 10 of these to blow up... and the stats folks will tell you gee... that's 10 out of millions of tanks. Great odds. But stats can say what you want. Look at it his way, 400 air fill stations in the US do over 80% of the tank fills. Now that translates into so far... statistically, and they are not done exploding yet if people continue to fill them, but so far the odds are about 1 in 40 that I will blow up the back of my shop, injure or kill an employee or customer... to make 5 bucks?! Uh... No.

The tank was about 100 bucks 20 years ago. It's cost you $2 a year to own the tank. Play it safe - get rid of it.

Seriously, if you want to fill them and dive them - that is your choice - but I will not even ride in a car that has one of them filled in it, but everyone has to make their own choices... but 2 bucks a year, or 5 bucks for a fill, or 150 for a new tank is not worth the risk of my hand, arm, life, or shop even if the chances are remote.

WaterRat
08-06-2007, 11:50
I had a couple of pre 1990 tanks that I just sold as scrap. I didn't want to take the chance.

Ron

cummings66
08-06-2007, 11:53
The only reason my dive shop has a water bath is to check for leaks on stuff, they don't fill tanks in it. That went away several years back from what I understand.

ScubaToys Larry
08-06-2007, 11:56
The only reason my dive shop has a water bath is to check for leaks on stuff, they don't fill tanks in it. That went away several years back from what I understand.

Yes, it is handy for that. Our pool is about 20 feet from our fill station, so we just toss stuff in there if looking for leaks... Tanks, Regs, Tires... :smiley2:

mike_s
08-06-2007, 12:19
There was also a more recent explosion up in Conneticut where a 6351 tank exploded. Luckily no one was hurt.

Also recently at another shop where a 6351 tank developed a crack/leak while being filled. It didn't explode, and they stopped the fill and drained the tank, but I'm sure that some underwear had to be changed afterwards.

I saw that last tank in the shop and saw the crack. It was tiny. it had just been hydro'd and visualed the week before and passed both. Just goes to show that your tank is only as good as it's last inspection.

3rdEye
08-06-2007, 12:40
where are those pics from? the first scubatoys shop? jk


It was from a Force E in Florida. The red on the insulation in the top photo is the blood of the guy who was filling the tanks. He lived, but lost part of a hand. This was one of the most publicized examples of what happens when stress load cracking occurs in the pre 1990 tanks. It's why we will not fill any tank before that date that is a luxfer, dacor, us divers, walter kiddie, etc.

Since that time, at least 6 other dive shops that I've heard about have had those tanks blow up either while filling, or one in someones car after being filled.

The pieces of the tank you see... it was in current hydro and vis. When this information surfaced, I scrapped all my old aluminum tanks.

ouch....good to know

Dive-aholic
08-06-2007, 23:04
It's not a chance. There's nothing wrong with pre-1989 tanks that aren't made from the 6351 alloy. I'm a certified cylinder inspector and I have my own compressor and fill my own tanks, even the couple I have that were manufactured in 1988. I don't pass or own anything I wouldn't be willing to fill myself.

Then I will send everyone who wants one of those tanks filled to you - as there are no shops or dive sites in the dallas area, and throughout most of Florida, or the rest of the country for that matter, that will fill them. Someone walks in with a tank that has a sticker that says vis+, you can buy those stickers on the net. And yes... of course it's a chance. There is a chance that any tank could blow up at any time. And if you look at the story surrounding those 6351 aluminum tanks... it's a bit scary.

The DOT issued a Safety Alert Bulletin back in 1994 regarding scuba tanks made out of alloy 6351-T6.

For a 2 year period Luxfer offered a trade in program to anyone who had one toward a new tank. From a business standpoint, if Luxfer made the claim these tanks were not safe, they would be forced by the consumer protection agency to do a recall and replacement of all that series tank which would bankrupt the company.

There have been about 10 of these to blow up... and the stats folks will tell you gee... that's 10 out of millions of tanks. Great odds. But stats can say what you want. Look at it his way, 400 air fill stations in the US do over 80% of the tank fills. Now that translates into so far... statistically, and they are not done exploding yet if people continue to fill them, but so far the odds are about 1 in 40 that I will blow up the back of my shop, injure or kill an employee or customer... to make 5 bucks?! Uh... No.

The tank was about 100 bucks 20 years ago. It's cost you $2 a year to own the tank. Play it safe - get rid of it.

Seriously, if you want to fill them and dive them - that is your choice - but I will not even ride in a car that has one of them filled in it, but everyone has to make their own choices... but 2 bucks a year, or 5 bucks for a fill, or 150 for a new tank is not worth the risk of my hand, arm, life, or shop even if the chances are remote.

Okay, I think there's a misunderstanding here. I'm not saying I own or fill the 6351 alloy tanks. I'm saying I own pre-1990 tanks that are not 6351 and I do fill those. It's not the year of manufacture that's a problem, it's the aluminum alloy that's a problem. And it's easy to tell what tanks were made from that alloy by the markings. The year manufactured is really irrelevant.

woody
08-07-2007, 03:06
If that is the accident that I think it is...Yes. The operator was killed. Very sad story.

On this one the operator did survive. He lost about half of his hand. Thumb and 2 fingers plus half the palm. There was a death in (i believe) the Florida panhandle. I never heard of the final report. Dive Excursions or something like that.

TommyB
08-07-2007, 03:41
Here's a good read on why the water-bath fill is pretty much useless
The Case For Dry-Filling Scuba Tanks (http://fillexpress.com/library/tankfill.pdf)

And this from
Cracking and Ruptures of SCBA and SCUBA Aluminum Cylinders
(Made from 6351 Alloy)
by Bill High, President, PSI, Inc.

http://www.psicylinders.com/library/Current/cracking.htm

Dive-aholic
08-07-2007, 05:05
If that is the accident that I think it is...Yes. The operator was killed. Very sad story.

On this one the operator did survive. He lost about half of his hand. Thumb and 2 fingers plus half the palm. There was a death in (i believe) the Florida panhandle. I never heard of the final report. Dive Excursions or something like that.

Cave Excursions in Luraville had a death a few years back, but it wasn't a filling issue. One of the employees was carrying an oxygen deco bottle and dropped it. The valve of the tank fell at just the right angle that it caused the tank to explode. I don't know specifics of the tank, etc. But this was an AL40 with an older valve. My understanding was it was the valve that was the cause.

ScubaToys Larry
08-07-2007, 06:42
Okay, I think there's a misunderstanding here. I'm not saying I own or fill the 6351 alloy tanks. I'm saying I own pre-1990 tanks that are not 6351 and I do fill those. It's not the year of manufacture that's a problem, it's the aluminum alloy that's a problem. And it's easy to tell what tanks were made from that alloy by the markings. The year manufactured is really irrelevant.

What markings are you referring to? I know the SP6498 - but there were millions of those tanks made that had 3AL stamped. And when luxfer had the trade in program, they said if the tank was an 88 or 89 stamped 3AL, it was still suspect, but call with the serial number. They would look them up, and then tell us if they qualified for the trade in program... and every pre 90 3AL we had did... And we took in and traded out a little over 300 tanks. We used to gather them up for a few weeks, then ship pallets of tanks to them. And many with 3AL markings.

Dive-aholic
08-07-2007, 07:51
Okay, I think there's a misunderstanding here. I'm not saying I own or fill the 6351 alloy tanks. I'm saying I own pre-1990 tanks that are not 6351 and I do fill those. It's not the year of manufacture that's a problem, it's the aluminum alloy that's a problem. And it's easy to tell what tanks were made from that alloy by the markings. The year manufactured is really irrelevant.

What markings are you referring to? I know the SP6498 - but there were millions of those tanks made that had 3AL stamped. And when luxfer had the trade in program, they said if the tank was an 88 or 89 stamped 3AL, it was still suspect, but call with the serial number. They would look them up, and then tell us if they qualified for the trade in program... and every pre 90 3AL we had did... And we took in and traded out a little over 300 tanks. We used to gather them up for a few weeks, then ship pallets of tanks to them. And many with 3AL markings.

That's the first I've heard that. In all the reading I've done on the subject, including Luxfer's site, High's book, Harlow's books, etc, I haven't seen that. Do you have a reference that actually states this? Or was this something Luxfer said to you?

Here's an article with some details:

http://www.bsac.com/legacyorg/news/luxfer240700.htm

ScubaToys Larry
08-07-2007, 08:07
That's the first I've heard that. In all the reading I've done on the subject, including Luxfer's site, High's book, Harlow's books, etc, I haven't seen that. Do you have a reference that actually states this? Or was this something Luxfer said to you?

Here's an article with some details:

http://www.bsac.com/legacyorg/news/luxfer240700.htm

It was told to us by our Luxfer rep years ago when they were doing the trade in program. There was a form we had to fill out to get the $50 coupons toward our next purchase. We had so many we were doing as we did a deal for our customers where they didn't have to send them in. They could just walk it into the shop, and we'd give the credit toward a new tank and we'd ship them in bulk... so we saw a lot of tanks!

And you can see a bunch of the mid 1980's tanks with the big US Divers logos on them that were really luxfer tanks - and stamped 3AL... same for Walter Kiddie, and others - and according to them, same with just straight Luxfers. Now the WK's were not part of the trade up program, but most the WK will have a 3AL on them depending on the year.

You may want to jot down the serial numbers of any 88 or before luxfer (or luxfer made tanks) and just call them up. The girl we would call would just let us know if they would allow the credit for the tank or not. Let us know what you find! Better Safe than Sorry!

Black-Gorrilla
08-07-2007, 09:16
Here's a good read on why the water-bath fill is pretty much useless
The Case For Dry-Filling Scuba Tanks (http://fillexpress.com/library/tankfill.pdf)

And this from
Cracking and Ruptures of SCBA and SCUBA Aluminum Cylinders
(Made from 6351 Alloy)
by Bill High, President, PSI, Inc.

http://www.psicylinders.com/library/Current/cracking.htm

good info. Thanks.
:smiley20:

badfrog88
08-07-2007, 10:37
I'm hoping someone here can help me out. I suspect that my tank is made from the 6351 alloy. I just got off the phone with Luxfer and, frankly, the customer service rep was not very helpful. All she did was point me back to the company's website.

If I remember correctly, I purchased my cylinder in 1989. The markings are as follows:

CTC/DOT-3AL3000-S80
P367805LUXFER5(a symbol that looks like "^"over a "T")88

From what I could find on the website I am really suspect about the tank, but I would like an answer from someone who knows better than I.

If it is made from the 6351 alloy how is the best way to dispose of it?

Kent

mike_s
08-07-2007, 10:45
I'm hoping someone here can help me out. I suspect that my tank is made from the 6351 alloy. I just got off the phone with Luxfer and, frankly, the customer service rep was not very helpful. All she did was point me back to the company's website.

If I remember correctly, I purchased my cylinder in 1989. The markings are as follows:

CTC/DOT-3AL3000-S80
P367805LUXFER5(a symbol that looks like "^"over a "T")88



from http://www.luxfercylinders.com/news/releases/20021209.shtml

To determine whether your Luxfer scuba tank is made from 6351 aluminum alloy, check the original hydrostatic test date (the earliest date) stamped on the crown. (Look for a month/year combination, such as 3/75.) If the stamped year is 1972 through 1987, the tank is made from 6351 alloy. A limited number of Luxfer scuba tanks were also made from 6351 alloy during the first half of 1988. If you have a 1988 tank with an original hydrostatic test date of 6/88 or earlier, Luxfer will assume that it is a 6351-alloy tank and issue an RG number. Tanks with an original hydrostatic test date of 7/88 or later are made from 6061 alloy and are not eligible for the trade-in program.
(note: The above referenced trade in program is over)




Here's how to read your tank markings.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/mikes2006/tanks/tank_read_alum_tank.gif




So from your above. CTC/DOT-3AL3000-S80 P367805LUXFER 5^88

The 5^88 indicates the date of May-1988 of original hydro/manufacture.

According to the above from Luxfer, they consider this to meet the criteria for it being a 6351 alloy tank.

Ironically, 2 months later, they changed to 6061 alloy, which was available when you bought your tank in 1989.





If it is made from the 6351 alloy how is the best way to dispose of it?


Send it to WhalerKyle. He'll take care of it :D

ScubaToys Larry
08-07-2007, 11:06
When we get them now... we tank them to an aluminum recycler and you get about 15 - 20 bucks for them. Keep the valve if you want it.

CompuDude
08-07-2007, 12:20
When we get them now... we tank them to an aluminum recycler and you get about 15 - 20 bucks for them. Keep the valve if you want it.
Considering you can often buy a used Al. tank that's no more than 5 years old for around $60, and you can get around $20 back for your old tank from a recycler, given the net cost of $40 it's completely beyond me why people haven't gotten rid of all of the bad tanks out there by now.

downunder
08-07-2007, 12:44
OK... Yikes! Is this only Luxfer tanks? I recently bought a used tank (ok - shows my cheapness!) for my son to use. It is a Alum 50. It has the following stamps:
3AL
DOT-SP6498-3000
R9812 USD
10 73

Then, there were hydros done in 80, 85 & 07.

The photo is here:
http://www.thesielergroup.com/tank1.jpg
http://www.thesielergroup.com/tank2.jpg

Thoughts?

ScubaToys Larry
08-07-2007, 12:49
OK... Yikes! Is this only Luxfer tanks? I recently bought a used tank (ok - shows my cheapness!) for my son to use. It is a Alum 50. It has the following stamps:
3AL
DOT-SP6498-3000
R9812 USD
10 73

Then, there were hydros done in 80, 85 & 07.


Thoughts?

My thought is slowly let out the air and take it in to be recycled. I would not use it, or let anyone I know use it, or have it in their car or house with air in it. But maybe that's just me.

Black-Gorrilla
08-07-2007, 13:20
i agree with larry, if you have a tank that shouldn't be used... such as that 50, just put it out in the backyard... slowly draining... and once completely empty, take it to be recycled... and enjoy the 15-20 bux towards the next one.
i've had a few tank scares as well (paintball though... smaller package, higher pres.)

badfrog88
08-07-2007, 13:51
I'm emptying my tank now. Do you think the places that take aluminum cans will take my bottle?

ScubaToys Larry
08-07-2007, 14:00
I'm emptying my tank now. Do you think the places that take aluminum cans will take my bottle?

They did in Dallas!

mike_s
08-07-2007, 14:08
My thought is slowly let out the air and take it in to be recycled. I would not use it, or let anyone I know use it, or have it in their car or house with air in it. But maybe that's just me.


oh heck Larry.... just let him send it to Whaler Kyle so he can shoot it! :smilie39:


Seriously, if he can get $15 to $20 bucks to recycle it, and you can prob get $15 bucks for the K valve selling it on here or Scubaboard. So it's not a total loss...


or you could always convert it into a lamp.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/mikes2006/misc_images/scuba-tank-lamp_small.jpg

Black-Gorrilla
08-07-2007, 14:09
i got a tank that i have to take in too.
just gotta find a place near me.

ScubaToys Larry
08-07-2007, 14:30
or you could always convert it into a lamp.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/mikes2006/misc_images/scuba-tank-lamp_small.jpg

Now this tank isn't bad because of the aluminum. It's the Padi stickers! :smilie39:

ScaredSilly
08-07-2007, 14:48
Last fall while down at my hydro facility they showed me an old cylinder that was marked as 3AL with a neck crack in it. I can not remember the date of mfg.

The reason alot of places are using the "We aint filling nothing made of AL before 1990" is because it is easy to remember. However, Catalina Cylinders has always used 6061AL which has not been shown to be a problem (This is what Luxfer uses as well). I have heard (second hand) that some shops are saying no AL cylinders that are more than 15 years old. I have to wonder about those shops ...

ScaredSilly
08-07-2007, 14:49
or you could always convert it into a lamp.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/mikes2006/misc_images/scuba-tank-lamp_small.jpg

Now this tank isn't bad because of the aluminum. It's the Padi stickers! :smilie39:

The worst part is that it has multiple inspection stickers on it which shows that it was not even inspected properly. I am sure it is not UL approved either. I would not turn that switch on ...

Dive-aholic
08-07-2007, 23:32
That's the first I've heard that. In all the reading I've done on the subject, including Luxfer's site, High's book, Harlow's books, etc, I haven't seen that. Do you have a reference that actually states this? Or was this something Luxfer said to you?

Here's an article with some details:

http://www.bsac.com/legacyorg/news/luxfer240700.htm

It was told to us by our Luxfer rep years ago when they were doing the trade in program. There was a form we had to fill out to get the $50 coupons toward our next purchase. We had so many we were doing as we did a deal for our customers where they didn't have to send them in. They could just walk it into the shop, and we'd give the credit toward a new tank and we'd ship them in bulk... so we saw a lot of tanks!

And you can see a bunch of the mid 1980's tanks with the big US Divers logos on them that were really luxfer tanks - and stamped 3AL... same for Walter Kiddie, and others - and according to them, same with just straight Luxfers. Now the WK's were not part of the trade up program, but most the WK will have a 3AL on them depending on the year.

You may want to jot down the serial numbers of any 88 or before luxfer (or luxfer made tanks) and just call them up. The girl we would call would just let us know if they would allow the credit for the tank or not. Let us know what you find! Better Safe than Sorry!

Thanks for the info, Larry. I know I don't have any 6351 tanks. I did a couple of years ago, but got rid of them. I just never heard there were tanks made under the 3AL code out of 6351 alloy. If that's truly the case, then there's incorrect literature out there (High's book).



OK... Yikes! Is this only Luxfer tanks? I recently bought a used tank (ok - shows my cheapness!) for my son to use. It is a Alum 50. It has the following stamps:
3AL
DOT-SP6498-3000
R9812 USD
10 73

SP6498 is not a good alloy. Tomorrow I'll pull out my book and list the markings that mean bad tank.

ScaredSilly
08-08-2007, 12:39
SP6498 is not a good alloy. Tomorrow I'll pull out my book and list the markings that mean bad tank.

A small point of clarification:

SP6498 is the Special Permit which allowed aluminum cylinders to be made. Not the alloy. The alloy used was AL6351.

I can not remember the time frame but SP6498 became 3AL as the mfg of aluminum cylinders became standard like the 3AA which are steels.

Dive-aholic
08-09-2007, 11:15
Good point. I should have clarified. SP6498 is not a good alloy tank. The SP6498 marking means the tank is made under an exemption when 6351 was still in use.

1982 is when 3AL started being used.

Jipps
10-22-2007, 18:21
I work at a dive shop here in orlando, and we wont touch any aluminum tanks pre 1990, but then again most shops wont nowadays. One other reason why i prefer to dive w/ steel tanks. And to add about the wet fill question, we dont use them because first of all, all too often a whip would get dropped in water, get water in it and someone would hook it up w/out draining it, puting water inside the tank...not good. But for protection we have a fully enclosed blast chamber that our tanks fill in, the damn thing was more expensive than our compressor!

kyfriedchipper
10-23-2007, 01:42
yeah - those are some scary pics

missnumnutz
10-23-2007, 02:08
our LDS fills them while standing the tanks in water 2 at a time only. They fill mainly steel tanks. He told me that the tanks are let cool so that pressure drops and then he turns the compressor back on so more air gets filled in the end - proper filling, instead of dodgy 210 amounts because they weren't allowed to cool so the air inside expands giving a higher reading than later when it has cooled.. "shrugs"

cummings66
10-23-2007, 15:02
I've yet to see a dive shop use a water bath since the tank mfgrs have suggested it not be done anymore. It used to be common, but not so much anymore.

WaScubaDude
10-23-2007, 15:24
or you could always convert it into a lamp.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/mikes2006/misc_images/scuba-tank-lamp_small.jpg

Now this tank isn't bad because of the aluminum. It's the Padi stickers! :smilie39:

The worst part is that it has multiple inspection stickers on it which shows that it was not even inspected properly. I am sure it is not UL approved either. I would not turn that switch on ...

You guys crack me up!

RoadRacer1978
10-23-2007, 15:32
or you could always convert it into a lamp.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/mikes2006/misc_images/scuba-tank-lamp_small.jpg

Now this tank isn't bad because of the aluminum. It's the Padi stickers! :smilie39:

The worst part is that it has multiple inspection stickers on it which shows that it was not even inspected properly. I am sure it is not UL approved either. I would not turn that switch on ...

You guys crack me up!
I love this idea. I have been looking at yard sales and such to find a pre 1990 tank for cheap just to make a lamp out of. It would make an interesting conversation peice to open up the door to talk SCUBA with friends and visitors that haven't made the plunge yet.

WaScubaDude
10-23-2007, 17:44
or you could always convert it into a lamp.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/mikes2006/misc_images/scuba-tank-lamp_small.jpg

Now this tank isn't bad because of the aluminum. It's the Padi stickers! :smilie39:

The worst part is that it has multiple inspection stickers on it which shows that it was not even inspected properly. I am sure it is not UL approved either. I would not turn that switch on ...

You guys crack me up!
I love this idea. I have been looking at yard sales and such to find a pre 1990 tank for cheap just to make a lamp out of. It would make an interesting conversation peice to open up the door to talk SCUBA with friends and visitors that haven't made the plunge yet.

Just need a more indistructable shade to have a bomb proof lamp.

marchand
10-23-2007, 18:06
I work at a dive shop here in orlando, and we wont touch any aluminum tanks pre 1990, but then again most shops wont nowadays. One other reason why i prefer to dive w/ steel tanks. And to add about the wet fill question, we dont use them because first of all, all too often a whip would get dropped in water, get water in it and someone would hook it up w/out draining it, puting water inside the tank...not good. But for protection we have a fully enclosed blast chamber that our tanks fill in, the damn thing was more expensive than our compressor!

Do you work at divers direct?

The only time, and last, that Ive been there they wouldn't fill either me or my buddies tank. They wouldn't fill mine because it is a HP 120 and apparently wont fit in the bomb proof box that they put the tanks in. It's a steel tank for crying out loud; granted, it was it's last month of hydro but they didn't even bother to check. all I got was a, "is that a high pressure 120? yes? sorry we cant fill it. it doesn't fit in the box" why would you get something that you cant fit all of the tanks in, its bad for business. and then he wouldn't fill my buddies tank because the dip tube had fallen off and was rattling around in side. he said he would have to do a visual inspection, which he probably would have charged for, when all he really had to do was open it up, reattach the dip tube, take a quick peek inside, and then fill it.

as far as I'm concerned divers direct has shoty customer service.
I'll get off my soapbox now.

Interestingly all of the dive shops around here fill the tanks in tubs of water. next time I'm in I'll talk to them about it.

mm2002
10-24-2007, 17:54
Aqua Sports in Springfield still fills them in water too. I didn't think anything of it until I read this thread.

Jipps
10-24-2007, 18:35
I work at a dive shop here in orlando, and we wont touch any aluminum tanks pre 1990, but then again most shops wont nowadays. One other reason why i prefer to dive w/ steel tanks. And to add about the wet fill question, we dont use them because first of all, all too often a whip would get dropped in water, get water in it and someone would hook it up w/out draining it, puting water inside the tank...not good. But for protection we have a fully enclosed blast chamber that our tanks fill in, the damn thing was more expensive than our compressor!

Do you work at divers direct?

The only time, and last, that Ive been there they wouldn't fill either me or my buddies tank. They wouldn't fill mine because it is a HP 120 and apparently wont fit in the bomb proof box that they put the tanks in. It's a steel tank for crying out loud; granted, it was it's last month of hydro but they didn't even bother to check. all I got was a, "is that a high pressure 120? yes? sorry we cant fill it. it doesn't fit in the box" why would you get something that you cant fit all of the tanks in, its bad for business. and then he wouldn't fill my buddies tank because the dip tube had fallen off and was rattling around in side. he said he would have to do a visual inspection, which he probably would have charged for, when all he really had to do was open it up, reattach the dip tube, take a quick peek inside, and then fill it.

as far as I'm concerned divers direct has shoty customer service.
I'll get off my soapbox now.

Interestingly all of the dive shops around here fill the tanks in tubs of water. next time I'm in I'll talk to them about it.

I know the guys down there, they are good guys. It depends on the make, some 120s fit, others dont. And as far as it goes for the dip tube, I am a tank inspector, i wouldnt have filled it either. And if you open it, you have to resticker it, most places will charge for a VIP if it has to be done. They use the visual eddy system and have to perform the full test on any tank they VIP, its company policy with divers direct. The fill tube may not have just come unscrewed, for all they knew it could have been broken, in which case it wouldnt be anything like a "simple peek inside"

skdvr
10-24-2007, 21:24
I've yet to see a dive shop use a water bath since the tank mfgrs have suggested it not be done anymore. It used to be common, but not so much anymore.

The State Park Marina at Tablerock fills tanks in water. I never really thought to much about it before. I heard that it was not a good idea because of the possibility of getting water in the tank but I just figured that they should be careful enough. Then I was just thinking that most of the time at the State Park Marina there are highschool kids working there for the summer that are filling tanks, so from now on I am going to tell them not to stick my tanks in the water, and I may ask to personally check the whip before it is placed on my tank to make sure that it is not wet.

Lots of good info in here.

Phil

Jipps
10-24-2007, 22:43
I've yet to see a dive shop use a water bath since the tank mfgrs have suggested it not be done anymore. It used to be common, but not so much anymore.

The State Park Marina at Tablerock fills tanks in water. I never really thought to much about it before. I heard that it was not a good idea because of the possibility of getting water in the tank but I just figured that they should be careful enough. Then I was just thinking that most of the time at the State Park Marina there are highschool kids working there for the summer that are filling tanks, so from now on I am going to tell them not to stick my tanks in the water, and I may ask to personally check the whip before it is placed on my tank to make sure that it is not wet.

Lots of good info in here.

Phil

easiest way to clear out the whip is just to run some air through it before its on the tank, doesnt take much air at all, so there is no reasonable reason why they should deny you.

Dive-aholic
10-25-2007, 06:53
...And as far as it goes for the dip tube, I am a tank inspector, i wouldnt have filled it either. And if you open it, you have to resticker it, most places will charge for a VIP if it has to be done. They use the visual eddy system and have to perform the full test on any tank they VIP, its company policy with divers direct. The fill tube may not have just come unscrewed, for all they knew it could have been broken, in which case it wouldnt be anything like a "simple peek inside"

No need to resticker a tank just because you pull the valve. If you're going to do an inspection, though, you should resticker it. As for the visual EDDY test, that's only used on AL tanks, not steel. If DD is doing and charging for EDDY tests on steel tanks, then they're ripping their customers off.

BobbyWombat
10-25-2007, 10:01
or you could always convert it into a lamp.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/mikes2006/misc_images/scuba-tank-lamp_small.jpg

Now this tank isn't bad because of the aluminum. It's the Padi stickers! :smilie39:

The worst part is that it has multiple inspection stickers on it which shows that it was not even inspected properly. I am sure it is not UL approved either. I would not turn that switch on ...

You guys crack me up!
I love this idea. I have been looking at yard sales and such to find a pre 1990 tank for cheap just to make a lamp out of. It would make an interesting conversation peice to open up the door to talk SCUBA with friends and visitors that haven't made the plunge yet.

Just need a more indistructable shade to have a bomb proof lamp.

Yeah, something made out of Cordura.

DennisW
10-25-2007, 13:32
I still have a Walter Kidde tanks that is the 6351 alloy. The only reason I am going to retire it is because the tank stays filled most of the time. I use it to fill the tires on the airplane. There is a shop in Melbourne, FL that still fills these tanks as long as they have an Eddy Current test. When the 6351 alloy tanks are gone, then there is no reason to do the Eddy Current test, but I'll bet you get charged for it anyway. I'm going to paint my tank to look like a dive flag and turn it into a lamp.

RonFrank
10-25-2007, 15:13
Aqua Sports in Springfield still fills them in water too. I didn't think anything of it until I read this thread.

There is nothing wrong with filling in water as long as they are not doing it to fill them too fast.

Aquanuts in the Keys used to fill in water, and unfortunately for the wrong reasons. They are gone I'm sorry to say, but I'm sure others still do this. They were often filling 40 or more tanks in less than an hour so the Capt and DM could get this done, and have some time for lunch between AM and PM trips.

cummings66
10-26-2007, 10:40
Really the only issue with filling in water is the possibility of getting water in the tank. If they're careful and blow out the whip and you made sure to blow out the valve you'd be fine.

I don't trust them unless I can watch them do it. Many guys that fill tanks don't know what they're doing and you've got to be careful.