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badfrog88
05-24-2008, 14:10
I haven't been diving actively for several years but I've been an active armchair "Technical" diver.:smiley5: My daughter is now getting to the age where I would like to get her involved in snorkeling and eventually diving. We just bought the game "Endless Ocean" for the Wii and she loves that.

Now it's time to start getting new gear to replace my old, getting into shape and diving again. I really like the concept of the long hose and necklace setup along with the backplate and wing, although I've never tried either. I also have come to realize that I will most likely never get involved in "technical" diving. Is there some way to incorporate some of the "Hogarthian, technical, DIR" concepts into a recreational setup without looking like a "tec wannabe"? Photo or links would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Charles R
05-24-2008, 14:43
There are alot of people out there that do not practice DIR or Tech diving that use a BP/W and long Hose setup for recreational diving. You need to decide what gear is best suited for the type of diving that you plan to do. A BP/W is just another type of BCD only difference is its missing all the pockets, padding and gizmo's.

in_cavediver
05-24-2008, 15:47
My opinion is pretty simple. Gear is there to meet the needs of the diver. I prefer a long hose and when my wife learned to dive, she did her OW class in a long hose. She also dove a lot of 'tec' gear as a basic OW diver simply because it works and we had it. She has since graduated to tec diving as well but that was independent of the gear.

I say try what you like and realize, the concepts of gear are not unique to tec diving. A good streamlined rig, be it a jacket, back inflate or BP/W is what every diver should have. Hose lengths are personal preference. (at least as long as they meet the dive requirements).

Dive, be happy, use what you want/like and don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

RoyN
05-24-2008, 17:44
The long hose configuration is a starter. :D

cummings66
05-24-2008, 21:43
Yup, the only thing that matters is what you think of yourself.

DOWNDEEP73
05-24-2008, 22:02
I am by no means a Tech nor DIR. I am an underwater hunter...and I have a 7' hose and do not care what others think about any of my gear.
Just dive what you want dive with....and the heck with what others think!
The only important thing is to be safe and have fun!

scubasamurai
05-24-2008, 22:52
never mind what others think, just tell them size matters and smile and walk away. ok seriously i have an air setup just because i like the the streamline effect for me. i also have a buddy who also uses the air and has another octo long hose also attached to his bcd. so go with what is right for you. and in the long run, people only make fun of you after the dive in the bar.

buddhasummer
05-24-2008, 23:12
I agree with the other posters, find out what you wanna use for the type of diving you do, gear you are comfortable in the water with and enjoy diving, as long as you are happy, safe, having fun what others think is of no importance unless you want it to be I know sometimes thats easier said than done but its what I try to do and I must say Im much happier when Im not thinking about what others are thinking of me. Good luck.

Geoff_T
05-25-2008, 03:59
there is no reason not to I dive a stab jacket and a long hose have for a few years now. I will eventually go to a bp-wing when either funds allow it for me it just makes more sense to do it this way. good luck

DUnder
05-29-2008, 11:07
As everyone has said, dive what you are comfortable with and don't worry about what other people think. You dive to have fun.

Rainer
05-29-2008, 12:01
Pick gear that works for you and is safe. If you want to dive a BP/W and set up your hoses so you donate the primary and bungee your back up, have at it.

MSilvia
05-29-2008, 12:34
I really like the concept of the long hose and necklace setup along with the backplate and wing, although I've never tried either. Is there some way to incorporate some of the "Hogarthian, technical, DIR" concepts into a recreational setup without looking like a "tec wannabe"?
I guess that depends on what you think a "tec wannabe" looks like. Assuming your gear fits specific needs you have, it's the right gear for you and in my opinion doesn't matter what it looks like. What I'd advise is thinking about WHY you like the concepts, and then decide if configuring your gear that way makes sense for the dives you're doing.

For example, if you aren't going to be diving in restricted overhead passages, what good will a long hose do you? If you have a good answer for that, then it's appropriate for your diving. If you just like it because that's what the tech divers are using, well...

mwhities
05-29-2008, 12:57
The reason I went to a long hose:

http://www.msscuba.com/forum/index.php/topic,77.msg283.html#msg283

Rainer
05-29-2008, 13:00
The reason I went to a long hose:

http://www.msscuba.com/forum/index.php/topic,77.msg283.html#msg283

Sorry, but I don't see what in that story made you want to get a long hose. Care to elaborate?

mwhities
05-29-2008, 13:19
The reason I went to a long hose:

http://www.msscuba.com/forum/index.php/topic,77.msg283.html#msg283

Sorry, but I don't see what in that story made you want to get a long hose. Care to elaborate?

Sure...

"Frank held onto me and kept us going slowly up the anchor line. While we were going up, I noticed that I started "bouncing" on and off Frank. Well, his primary regulator hose wasn't that long and one of the times I bounced off Frank, the mouth piece on the regulatr unsnapped. I was floating there with only as regulator mouth piece in my mouth. I was able to grab the regulator and remove the mouth piece from my mouth and start breathing from the mouth pieceless regulator."

If Frank and I both had a long hose, I'd never lost the mouth piece off of his regulator. Then I'd never had to try to suck on the hard plastic part of his second stage and suck in water along with the air. We'd been able to stay an arms length away from each other.

Michael

Rainer
05-29-2008, 13:22
Sounds like the problem was a lack of buoyancy control (and gas management...). Don't see how the long hose would help in that case.

mwhities
05-29-2008, 13:36
Sounds like the problem was a lack of buoyancy control (and gas management...).


I can agree with that. It was. No buoyancy what so ever. Absolutely no gas management. I confess, that was my first boat dive and I think my 9th dive ever. I'm sure now I'd have no problems with diving with someone with a standard hose and either myself or them going OOA. (Granted, they've had more or equivalent training as myself now.) I've since (somewhat) dialed in my buoyancy and trim and I'm still currently training my my gas management.



Don't see how the long hose would help in that case.


Either way, the long hose would've helped as I wouldn't have had to stay so close to Frank and the mouth piece would have never been pulled off the second stage.

If you can't see that... you have more of an issue than I did then.

(OP: Sorry to hi-jack the thread. I'm done. :P)

Michael

Rainer
05-29-2008, 13:40
I'm just saying, if you don't have buoyancy under control, thinking that backing off on a long hose would somehow be a good idea is a fallacy. You're just going to be 7' away when the mouthpiece falls off, not 3'.

I dive a long hose, but if a diver I didn't know came up to me OOG, I assure you, I'd be holding onto him tightly. I likely wouldn't unhook the hose from under my can light either (minimizing the amount of hose deployed).

mwhities
05-29-2008, 13:54
I'm just saying, if you don't have buoyancy under control, thinking that backing off on a long hose would somehow be a good idea is a fallacy. You're just going to be 7' away when the mouthpiece falls off, not 3'.

I dive a long hose, but if a diver I didn't know came up to me OOG, I assure you, I'd be holding onto him tightly. I likely wouldn't unhook the hose from under my can light either (minimizing the amount of hose deployed).

Being on the anchor line and OOA, I wasn't thinking to much about buoyancy. I was thinking of gas management... aka the surface. Frank had triple + duty and I couldn't help at all. He had to worry about his safety, worry about my safety and keep me (both of us) from rocketing to the surface. I couldn't help him after the mouth piece came off. Being I only have one-arm, I had to hold the second stage in my mouth to breath off of it.

We were fine (minus being OOA) until the mouth piece fell off. Again, if we'd had a longer hose (even if it was a foot or so longer) I don't think the mouth piece would've came off and I'd never had to suck in water.

Michael

Rainer
05-29-2008, 13:57
Michale, I hear what you're saying (writing). I just don't think the long hose was the solution to your problem.

Hijack over.

mwhities
05-29-2008, 13:59
Michale, I hear what you're saying (writing). I just don't think the long hose was the solution to your problem.

Hijack over.

It's not the complete solution. I agree but, it'd been helpful minus the non buoyancy and gas management that I neglected to have. :)

Hi-jack over here too. :)

So, anyone want to breath off my 8' hose? ;)

Michael

caroln
05-29-2008, 15:02
I switched over to a long hose at around 20 dives. At first I wasn't so sure I liked it, but on a dive in Cozumel when we saw 2 people sharing air by diving piggyback style, I realized that the long hose had certain benefits. I like the flexibility I have in positioning myself when sharing air---I'm always going to be close, but to have a little room to work side by side, instead of nose to nose if the situation warrants it is nice.

The bp/w is IMO beneficial to anyone diving in cold water, tech diver or not, because it takes weight off your belt and moves it to a location that aids your stability and positioning in the water. This weekend I finally got my husband into a bp/w (albeit with a comfort harness) and a set of paddle fins--and he looked like a completely different diver. He has no aspirations whatsoever of ever doing any tech diving, but the big plus of the gear is that it's so modular, you can take what works for you and create the perfect rig for you and exactly what you want out of it rather than having to fit into a manufacturers mold of what Joe Diver wants.

rongoodman
06-01-2008, 12:51
The last time I used a short hose and standard BC was the rental gear in my OW class. No reason at all not to start with a BP/W and long hose/bungeed secondary.

Vercingetorix
06-10-2008, 19:44
I dive a BP/W with Hog harness which I bought immediately after OW cert. I used it for AOW (which were my next dives). I am not a tech diver, so I dive with regular length hoses. I dive what is comfortable for the kinds of diving I do.

I like the simplicity and configurability of the rig. I can add/remove pockets as I see fit. With a steel BP (5 lbs) and 3mm suit, I don't even need a weight belt in fresh water. My aluminum BP weighs 1 lb; so, I can wear weights.

CompuDude
06-10-2008, 20:24
I got there slowly, piece by piece, over the course of a couple of years.

Started with bp/w (with fancy transplate harness) because the bp/w just made sense to use, since we dive cold water here and need significant amounts of weight.

Then I realized I wasn't happy with the fancy harness, since I couldn't put the single d-rings (in each location) that I actually needed precisely where I needed it, so I went to the hog harness and was happier.

Then, after watching some OOA drills, I started seeing the benefits of the long hose and bungeed backup, even in OW diving. So I went there.

Then, I started wishing I had more control of my position with photography, and looking with envy at the backup kick, so eventually, out went my spit fins and in came the Jet fins.

I had a hog rig for quite a while, perfectly happy with it, well before I decided maybe I'd try out this DIR thing after all, and take Fundies.

Since then, I've only been more and more happy with my gear decisions. Because they make sense for the type of diving I do... even when that diving is simple open water reef diving.

RoyN
06-10-2008, 23:09
I started doing the long hose when I got into drysuit because it would help me more streamline and someone said the drysuit creates drag. (not sure about that!)

But I had to go to jet fin for my drysuit because of the "drag" with the drysuit and also the fact that the twin jet split fin I had didn't fit so I had to go with the jet fins.

The backplate is in the inside insert of the apek harness so that shouldn't be a problem.

The only thing I need to get rid of is that awful scubapro smartcom computer. That needs to go. Hopefully someone is willing to buy it and I could get the VT3 with an SPG gauge to have a full complate hogarthian gear configuration.

LCF
06-14-2008, 06:07
There's no reason not to use a Hogarthian setup as a single tank, recreational diving rig. I've been diving that for the last three years. It's simple, streamlined, and very effective. Donating the primary simply makes SENSE, and having a bungied backup right under my chin has saved me some anxiety in a variety of situations, not the least of which being tripping and falling face first into three feet of water on a shore entry, and being rolled in the surf on another.

If you don't want to use a canister light, you can go with a 5' hose and route it under your right arm, then behind your neck and to your mouth. It gives you almost all the advantages of a 7' hose (routing close to the body, donation of the primary, option for side-by-side swimming if you need to get back to the upline). The only thing you can't do easily is swim in single file while sharing gas, and no recreational diver should ever have to do that.

dive10killer
06-14-2008, 07:05
You might as well get the training. That way you won't feel like a wanna-be!

CompuDude
06-16-2008, 13:36
I started doing the long hose when I got into drysuit because it would help me more streamline and someone said the drysuit creates drag. (not sure about that!)

But I had to go to jet fin for my drysuit because of the "drag" with the drysuit and also the fact that the twin jet split fin I had didn't fit so I had to go with the jet fins.

Drysuits definitely have a lot more drag than wetsuits. Smooth neoprene vs. wrinkly folds of a "shrink-wrapped" drysuit? Plus the thicker undergarments plus DS material vs. a close-fitting 7mm of neoprene means you're displacing more water (thus the extra weight needed, generally), and pushing a bigger "package" through the water. More drag.

Soooooo worth it, though, when the water is cold!