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View Full Version : LDS Frustration = Scuba Toys!



blewgrass
06-01-2008, 22:17
Based on speaking to some advanced divers and seeking their wisdom I was told to make every effort to keep my Local Dive Shop in business by buying gear from them. I surfed, read, and watched divers around me for nearly two years. I am also trying to be sensitive to retailers challenges today.

However.... when I go to my LDS and see a compass that's $35 at ST, with a price sticker reading $69, I can't allow myself to do that. I'm much poorer than the LDS owner... Part of the script that the LDS employee reads from explains how the "internet dealers" are dumping grounds for second rate gear and rejects. Then I thought.. Scuba Toys is an authorized dealer of their gear, so why would their merchandise be "dumped" seconds?

When the manager insulted Zeagle gear the conversation got interesting. I countered that Zeagle seems ok for Coast Guard and military. Then they claimed that was only because they could get cheap pricing. "Hmmmm I said.." Then the argument came that I couldn't get parts when I was in the Gallapagos Islands and my reg broke. It became almost a comedy. It would have been different if they were honest, but jeez.

I don't want to mention names.. it's not about that. Just wanted to vent out loud and at the same time tip my hat to ST, which has been great so far. The deals are great and the service is fantastic. Kudos!

rawalker
06-01-2008, 23:21
I hear ya! With LDS it is hit or miss. Some will make every attempt to do the right thing, while others do the comedy routine. I do tend to give a couple of local shops a chance to earn my business. I'm also straight forward with them about the fact. As for training... With the number of choices I have in my area, between shops and independent instructors I'm not worried about being able to get quality training at a reasonable price.
Half the shops in my area have figured out they need to compete head to head with internet dealers. Those shops are on my short list of places to check with the others I expect to change their policies or close.

Geoff_T
06-01-2008, 23:33
Hey for what its worth scuba toys is my local dive shop thats how I found out about them. You know what else they are reputable too, more so than some other places I have been to. As for that script I have heard it before and its leakier than my first mask. The fact is that we live in the internet age and the busness model for places like the lds is changeing. If they don't want to keep up than they will go under and somebody better will come along.

rawalker
06-01-2008, 23:51
Hey for what its worth scuba toys is my local dive shop thats how I found out about them. You know what else they are reputable too, more so than some other places I have been to. As for that script I have heard it before and its leakier than my first mask. The fact is that we live in the internet age and the busness model for places like the lds is changeing. If they don't want to keep up than they will go under and somebody better will come along.

Can I have a Halleluiah!

MetalHealth
06-02-2008, 01:15
These guys need to realize that the Internet allows savvy shoppers to know what they should be paying these days. I don't mind paying a few more $$ for a face to face transaction and potentially easier problem resolution but when you're talking 30-50% difference, I'll take the Internet! I recently posted in the Zeagle forum about a similar situation.

rawalker
06-02-2008, 01:46
The song and dance masters would also have you believe that the manufacturers are letting the internet vendors run away with the whole retail game. Think about it yes you give you best accounts a break but you also make sure there is enough retail outlets to make sure your customers can easily get your products and the service chain is satisfactory to keep your customers happy. That's also the excuse the no internet sales manufacturers give for restricting sales and the free market system. Sorry but I'll never buy anything for MSRP and I'll never by an item that the manufacturer controls the retail price. And finally I'll never by a product that the manufacturer places heavy qualifications for warranty that are geared to restrict the open market system.

Geoff_T
06-02-2008, 06:02
It is economics 101 in a free market economy the customer can go to another distributer. If there is no other distributer avalable than there is a monopoly avalible. In the case of many LDS that is exactly what they have had for deccades. The same goes for these no net sales manufactures. Think about how many towns there with only 1 or at best 2 shops does not leave much in the way for shopping around with no net.

blewgrass
06-02-2008, 08:38
Well, you guys have certainly explained the situation very well. I've watched the "internet restrictions" in several industries. Taylor Guitars tried the same thing and gave it up due to the massive amount of business they were missing out on.

In todays retail market, you gotta play the price game if you want to be on the edge. Customer service is the second rule. Scuba Toys seems to have hit a home run with both of these.

waytooslow
06-02-2008, 09:17
Sure glad Scubatoys is close enough to be considered my LDS....:smiley20:

its a 20 - 30 min drive

fisheater
06-02-2008, 09:43
Sure glad Scubatoys is close enough to be considered my LDS....:smiley20:

its a 20 - 30 min drive

Sure. Just rub it in!! :smiley19::smiley19:

blewgrass
06-02-2008, 10:23
That's what's so cool about ST. It is a LDS, which is sufficient argument against my LDS that they can do much better-Look at these guys in Dallas, TX. Don't tell me you can't do better! Meanwhile the song and dance and endless spin continues....

I will give kudos to the Bodega Bay Dive shop which is an "on the water" type shop. They don't BS you, will give immediate discounts, and straiight talk to you like you're a peer, not a chump. Same deal with the Petaluma operation. They do tank fill cards for $3 a fill, great deals on suits, hoods, and most other gear.

Retailers need to get smart and purchase a clue on what makes a retail operation grow. Best price will move inventory... the manufacturers will give you better pricing, word will spread fast that the store is *the* place to gear up, and customer service puts the icing on the cake.

The worst thing a shop can do is make the customer feel dumb and tell them they are wrong about everything. Even if they are... they should recognize a newbie that knows how to do their consumer homework.

YamilR
06-02-2008, 10:42
I'm stationed in Cuba and I do have a LDS on base with only a 1 min. drive from my quarters, but I still rather wait 2 weeks to get my stuff from ST even though the LDS have the same equipment in stock and when I asked just for the hell of it if they could match the price they looked at me with " are you stupid face" and said that prices are final. Monopoly is a bitch!!

blewgrass
06-02-2008, 11:31
they looked at me with " are you stupid face" and said that prices are final.

They will turn out to be the stupid one when you don't spend a dime in their shop...

I'm hearing more and more divers talk about this phenomenon. Sounds like an industry wide attitude problem. Specialty shops really get some great help.... not, Could be an issue of hiring people without a high school education...

torrey
06-02-2008, 12:20
That's what's so cool about ST. It is a LDS, which is sufficient argument against my LDS that they can do much better-Look at these guys in Dallas, TX. Don't tell me you can't do better! Meanwhile the song and dance and endless spin continues....

I bought my first wetsuit from Scubatoys years ago when it was a little shop in a strip mall. Any one of these little LDS' has the same opportunity to do what Larry and Joe did. You can either whine about how the big boys are killing you, or you can do something about it and become a big boy yourself.

fireflock
06-02-2008, 12:23
A large part of the scuba industry just has it's head in the sand. They (collectively) could do better if they really wanted to.

I went to a specialty retailer to buy a pair of running shoes last week and to be honest, I expected the worst. Dealing with dive shops had me prepared to run into employees that didn't know their products, higher than market prices, and a long wait for anything that wasn't in stock.

Boy was I in for a surprise. They spent 45 min helping me find the right kind of shoe, let me try on and run in a few pairs, and then ordered a pair for me since the shoe I needed wasn't in stock (size 14). They steered me to a middle of the price range model, and their price was the same as what I could find at a number of internet retailers. I was prepared to wait a week or more for the special order, but they had it in 2 days. Finally, when I went to pick up the shoes I said 'I am going to try these on around the house for a while to make sure they fit. Can I bring them back if things don't work out?' Don't do that, they said. Go outside and run in them. You can use them for 30 days and bring them back anytime for a full refund....on a special order!

If specialty retailers can provide service like that on a $100 pair of shoes, surely dive shops can get their act together and do a better job on bigger ticket items. The running store gave me every reason to come back and buy from them again - price, service, knowledge, return policy, long term satisfaction, etc... and there are thousands of places to buy the same pair of running shoes. They were competitive on every level. I can't think of the last time a dive shop exceeded expectations like that.

Rich

Martin2
06-02-2008, 13:46
The running store gave me every reason to come back and buy from them again - price, service, knowledge, return policy, long term satisfaction, etc... and there are thousands of places to buy the same pair of running shoes. They were competitive on every level. I can't think of the last time a dive shop exceeded expectations like that.
Rich

The vast majority of dive shops simply don't seem interested in providing these services. They seem to think that they should be granted loyalty when they fail at all levels of customer service. To be fair, it isn't that way everywhere. We have a wonderful dive shop about 2 hours away that is just wonderful to work with. They have a well stated policy regarding internet sales posted on their website. Thus far, I've been very impressed with their service. The fact that they are 2 hours away is part of what keeps me from going there more often.

longtailbda
06-02-2008, 16:24
Local lds great people and good service. They have ok local dives and great traveling dives. Instructors are terrific and the classes for this area seem reasonably priced.
I always try to give them a chance to compete before buying from anybody else. The folks who own the dive shop believe with all their hearts in MSRP when it comes to major equipment ie bcd,regs ect. Their equipment prices are very,very steep. I talked to them today about a basic non-integrated bc, for myself, for traveling they came up with a special price of just $300.00, since I've dealt with them for a long time.
Shopping authorized dealers online I can find the same bc for under $150.00 and if I just look nearby at other shops I can still beat $200.00. I pointed that out to them and they said before you buy anything online let us try to compete with them. That was what I was doing and they still said that the best they could do was $300.00 but if it needed servicing they'd give me a loaner.
At the prices they're quoting for all the equipment we're going to be buying for my wife I could buy almost buy 2 of everything and keep a spare just in case.
I've always believed in supporting my lds and will continue to do so in the future when possible, but you shouldn't have to send their kids to school too. Just started purchases for my wife at ST for this reason.

Keep in mind I actually like this shop and recommend them when ever possible.

Navy OnStar
06-02-2008, 16:58
I gave my local LDS the chance after I researched online what I wanted. I figured out what gear and called around to all the dive shops that carried that brand. When I called the shop that I took my open water at I asked for a military discount (I had already spent over 1,000) with them. The guy said no. I went to a farther shop and asked for the same thing on the same gear and they gave me the discount. I bought a large sum of gear from the second shop. A little later I dove with one of the DM's from the first shop and he asked about the gear. I told him the story and he was appalled that the shop did me wrong like that. He told the shop that they lost a huge order because I went somewhere else. The next time I needed something I called the shop to give them the same chance and they still gave me a hard time about the discount. (since then my wife I had done my AOW class with them) The shop down the road has the same prices and offers the discount but they refuse to make it easy. I finally bought tanks from ST and gave the LDS the ability to match the price. Still wouldn't do it.

Even if they make 0 profit off of my order, they still move 2 tanks that have a hydro that keeps getting older. I would feel like I got a good deal and I come back for fills, classes, refer people, etc. They will make money by volume. I live in a great diving town but they don't get it. So I bought from ST. I still get my fills there, but I REFER PEOPLE TO ST.

Geoff_T
06-02-2008, 17:16
The vast majority of dive shops simply don't seem interested in providing these services. They seem to think that they should be granted loyalty when they fail at all levels of customer service. To be fair, it isn't that way everywhere. We have a wonderful dive shop about 2 hours away that is just wonderful to work with. They have a well stated policy regarding internet sales posted on their website. Thus far, I've been very impressed with their service. The fact that they are 2 hours away is part of what keeps me from going there more often.

No its even better than that. The vast majority of shops will not even post things like equiptment rental rates or air fill rates online. I can even almost understand not wanting to advertise equiptment rates if you want the ability to negotiate on an individual basis for goods. Or if your contracts state that you can not do so on equiptment. But simple services like air fills or even lesson rates come on.

USF_Diver
06-02-2008, 19:01
they looked at me with " are you stupid face" and said that prices are final.

They will turn out to be the stupid one when you don't spend a dime in their shop...

I'm hearing more and more divers talk about this phenomenon. Sounds like an industry wide attitude problem. Specialty shops really get some great help.... not, Could be an issue of hiring people without a high school education...


I do mountain biking also, and this is problem the local bike shops have vs the big online sites. The local shops that offer great service and somewhat reasonable prices are the ones that stay in business.

I give my lds a chance for items but if the price is not close I will go with ST, I work to hard for my money to pay 30% or more just cause a guy is local.

blewgrass
06-02-2008, 19:40
Amen to all here. Sounds like I am not alone in my feelings, so that in part validates all of our acitons- buy from a great dealer who cares enough to want our business.

The "anti-internet" attitude is also very suspect. Anybody who knows anything about business these days must embrace the internet, not bash it.

jtkkym
06-02-2008, 20:38
I like my LDS and would like to support them but sometime ST's deals are too good.

oddbod
06-03-2008, 04:15
I asked LDS, who deals with one of the Australian Importers, about getting a Oxycheq Mach V, said it would take 1-2 months and cost $700-800 Aust.:smiley5: ST delivered it here in 5 days (including a weekend) for $385 Aust,:smiley32: also got some other stuff at the same time for the same postage cost. So why bother?

gbrdiver
06-03-2008, 06:54
Yeah, its a strange thing down here in Oz...I was diving with the manager of one of the LDS who confessed he got some of his personal gear from ST as well 'cos it was cheaper than cost from the Oz distributor.'

Can't see them bankrupt soon though...$100 for a hydro and oxy clean for a 5lt stage cylinder ain't cheap.

CamaroChick
06-03-2008, 07:40
So what's up with the Zeagle bashing? After much research, I bought a Zena from ST and I 100% LOVE LOVE LOVE it!! I was in my LDS shopping for some clips, and the guy asked what kind of BC I had, I said a Zena. He looked puzzled. I then said, a Zeagle Zena. I couldn't tell if he looked confused or disgusted at my choice in BCs. I then looked at the one and only womens BC they carried (a jacket style) and then noticed that every single one of their BCs was a jacket style. If there wasn't the internet and ST, I wouldn't even know that back inflate BCs existed!

So I bought clips and a mesh bag from LDS, and all my real gear from ST!
:grinno:

Navy OnStar
06-03-2008, 08:57
So I bought clips and a mesh bag from LDS, and all my real gear from ST!
:grinno:

Exactly, I have been dissappointed with the prices so I buy from ST and get the little stuff at the LDS.

The LDS's around Pensacola each carry different brands so there is no competition between LDS's. You really have to drive an hour or more to find another shop with the same gear. So it really all comes down to loyalty. I shopped around for the best price on certs and classes that worked with my schedule. I ended up getting to know the guys at the LDS I picked, and I liked the gear the Instructor who did my cert had and I looked into that brand (which is what the LDS carried...go figure) and being new to diving I ended up getting that brand (but not from that LDS....I drove the hour to get a much better deal.) I am in no way dissappointed with my purchases but I may have made one or 2 changes knowing what I know now. I am semi-loyal to that LDS because they carry the brands I have, and I do my classes there. But their prices on gear are very high. So I get weights, fills, and classes there and my big gear purchases everywhere else.

(BTW anyone near Pensacola should go to Panama City to buy gear. Especially military. There is a Navy Diving School there and of course several dive shops with good military discounts, figure out what you want and give the two dive shops over there a call. They are in big competition and will work hard for your business).

OnStar

LMM1967
06-04-2008, 07:55
I tried supporting my local LDS - spent about $5k over a 3 week period of time and when I had a problem with one of the computers they made me deal directly with the manufacturer - even though they knew there was a problem with the computer when I showed them what it was doing. They refused to stand behind the product that I paid almost MSRP to them less than 10 days prior.

ST gets my business now - I have had 1 issue (small, with a pretty cheap watch) and they replaced it - no questions asked. I stand up and applaud ST - and to any LDS that does not wise up and follow in the steps of Larry and Joe - so be it, welcome to the world of being in business, perform the way your customers want or continue to struggle and eventually close down because of all those "evil" internet businesses.

merganser
06-05-2008, 16:48
Let me tell you about my awesome dealing with Scuba Toys this week. My wife and I are new divers living in Western Kentucky. We are leaving for North Carolina on Saturday. I called Joe on Monday about 11:30 am and told him I wanted to buy 2 complete sets of gear with my stimulus check that I had just received. I mentioned that we were leaving on vacation on Friday and was hoping that the gear would be here in time but if it wasn't so be it. He said don't worry and that he would make it happen.

Monday afternoon, I received an email saying that order had been shipped. However, the wet suit would be coming from the manufacturer in New Jersey.

Wednesday afternoon, all gear was delivered from Scuba Toys by UPS.

Thursday afternoon, UPS showed up with the Wet Suit shipped from New Jersey.

You guys run a great business and your customer service is awesome. Thanks to Greg Williams and Joe for great service and advice!!! You are my local dive shop.

blewgrass
06-06-2008, 00:43
I've already made two orders from ST and I have zero regrets. I did my homework on the gear, and they shipped it very fast, with no BS. They made me feel like a neighbor in their shop even though I'm 1200 miles from Dallas. That's a great accomplishment.

mudshark
06-06-2008, 04:47
This area is supposed to be about complaints but when it comes to ST I just don't have any. Last week I placed an order for a drysuit hood and a tank strap weight pocket. It was shipped later than I expected because of a holiday. When I asked about 2 day shipping they said it would arrive in time before a trip to San Diego. THEN they decide they won't charge me the added cost for 2nd day!! What can I say? ST realizes what it takes to keep customers: Think outside the box to give customers what they need and want. If it's good for the customer its good for the shop. They know it's what makes and keeps loyal customers and the lds' just don't seem to get it and in the end it will be their loss.

waytooslow
06-06-2008, 08:19
I am so glad that ST is my LDS... sorry just had to "rub" it in. After reading all these posts - it is apparent that most LDS' some have attitude, I noticed that at others in DFW area. Back when I was buying personal gear, I decided to shop around, most other stores carried one or two brands and thier prices were near double that of ST.

So needless to say the 20 minute drive is nothing and ST is the LDS that earned my loyality.

(pssst Joe can I have that 20 now?) ;)

Vercingetorix
06-06-2008, 08:40
20-minute drive to ScubaToys? Heckuva long drive. It takes me only 10 minutes to get there...

fisheater
06-06-2008, 09:02
Hey! Now you guys are rubbing it in. That hurts!!

Geoff_T
06-06-2008, 15:24
I am so glad that ST is my LDS... sorry just had to "rub" it in. After reading all these posts - it is apparent that most LDS' some have attitude, I noticed that at others in DFW area. Back when I was buying personal gear, I decided to shop around, most other stores carried one or two brands and thier prices were near double that of ST.

So needless to say the 20 minute drive is nothing and ST is the LDS that earned my loyality.

(pssst Joe can I have that 20 now?) ;)

Yeah I noticed this too before I found ST. This is why my when I finaly convince my wife to certify it will be through ST not the other place I was looking at.

Liv7301
06-10-2008, 11:21
In the same vein...

We are about 30 minutes north of ST. Even though we have a dive shop in town, we always make the drive down to ST for several reasons.

1. The in-town dive shop is the same size as my living room. As a result they don't have much gear in stock. My husband and myself have hard to fit body types and would have to order everything with out trying things on. ST has such a large inventory we are off the rack there and can try on all different brands, cuts, models, etc.

2. Pricing isn't even close. Why on earth would I want to pay MSRP+ on an item and still have to special order it to get it? Or I can drive for a half hour, get a great deal, a forum discount, and have 10 kinds to pick from.

3. We don't even fill our tanks there because they do the additional Visual Plus inspection that costs extra. Granted it's not money wasted but still we would have to pay for the extra vis inspection just to get our tanks filled there. Most of the other shops in the area don't require this.

4. I popped into another shop to ask a question about if they knew anyone who did wetsuit alterations. When I said that I do all of my shopping from ST they immediately launched into a tirade about how they were "a bunch of jerks" and don't stand behind their products. Wah?!?!?!?! Shopping at ST is consistently the best customer service and support that I get in any kind or retail establishment.

matt151617
06-10-2008, 15:28
A lot of LDS seem to thing ST is the bad guy... they don't stand behind their gear, low quality, etc. I think the LDS is just pissed that they can't match ST's prices. It's kinda like Walmart.

If I want personal face-to-face service, someone to let me play with the gear, try it on, take it in a pool, etc, then I'll go to my LDS. But if I know what I want, then I'll go through ST... price of course being the determining factor.

horsmen
06-13-2008, 13:26
well my lds isn't even a lds its a out doors store that happens to sell dive gear and teach

i have bought mmmmm 1 thing from them a set of fins i made them price match st and they didn't want to do that.

everything else i bought and buying" 2 full packages Monday" will be from st i sure if i drove all the way to LA i could find other dive shops but that 75 miles away and with gas ill pass.

so my LDS is only 50 ft or less from me at all times and open 24 hrs day Scuba Gear and Scuba Diving Equipment - Discount dive gear (Cheap online!) (http://www.scubatoys.com) is my LDS

ScottZeagle
06-13-2008, 14:18
When the manager insulted Zeagle gear the conversation got interesting. I countered that Zeagle seems ok for Coast Guard and military. Then they claimed that was only because they could get cheap pricing. "Hmmmm I said.."

Was the shop you went into actually a Zeagle dealer? If so, I would love for you to PM me the name of the shop...PLEASE???!!!!


So what's up with the Zeagle bashing? After much research, I bought a Zena from ST and I 100% LOVE LOVE LOVE it!! I was in my LDS shopping for some clips, and the guy asked what kind of BC I had, I said a Zena. He looked puzzled. I then said, a Zeagle Zena. I couldn't tell if he looked confused or disgusted at my choice in BCs. I then looked at the one and only womens BC they carried (a jacket style) and then noticed that every single one of their BCs was a jacket style. If there wasn't the internet and ST, I wouldn't even know that back inflate BCs existed!

So I bought clips and a mesh bag from LDS, and all my real gear from ST!
:grinno:


Some shops like to bash products that they are not a dealer for...or that they are unwilling to offer competitive pricing on. It is the nature of the business, unfortunately. Luckily for us, we have been a pretty solid reputation based on good products, good dealers, and good customer service. Word of mouth from end users like you is far more important to us than what Billy down at the LDS, who doesn't stock or understand our product, has to say....

Was that harsh?? I hope not.

Thanks for the continued support.

Scott

Geoff_T
06-13-2008, 14:48
Some shops like to bash products that they are not a dealer for...or that they are unwilling to offer competitive pricing on. It is the nature of the business, unfortunately. Luckily for us, we have been a pretty solid reputation based on good products, good dealers, and good customer service. Word of mouth from end users like you is far more important to us than what Billy down at the LDS, who doesn't stock or understand our product, has to say....

Was that harsh?? I hope not.

Thanks for the continued support.

Scott

Yeah whats even better is when you go into that same shop a year later and they are selling a product they used to bash and are saying how great it is.

CaptainPat
06-13-2008, 22:14
Based on speaking to some advanced divers and seeking their wisdom I was told to make every effort to keep my Local Dive Shop in business by buying gear from them. I surfed, read, and watched divers around me for nearly two years. I am also trying to be sensitive to retailers challenges today.

However.... when I go to my LDS and see a compass that's $35 at ST, with a price sticker reading $69, I can't allow myself to do that. I'm much poorer than the LDS owner... Part of the script that the LDS employee reads from explains how the "internet dealers" are dumping grounds for second rate gear and rejects. Then I thought.. Scuba Toys is an authorized dealer of their gear, so why would their merchandise be "dumped" seconds?

When the manager insulted Zeagle gear the conversation got interesting. I countered that Zeagle seems ok for Coast Guard and military. Then they claimed that was only because they could get cheap pricing. "Hmmmm I said.." Then the argument came that I couldn't get parts when I was in the Gallapagos Islands and my reg broke. It became almost a comedy. It would have been different if they were honest, but jeez.

I don't want to mention names.. it's not about that. Just wanted to vent out loud and at the same time tip my hat to ST, which has been great so far. The deals are great and the service is fantastic. Kudos!

i had a similar situation, when i finnaly got my certificaiton, i decided i wanted to buy gear, and ima pretty cool guy, i dont make a killin in money, im 19, and i do construction during the summers when im not in school, so when i went to my LDS, wanting to buy gear, i looked around, and they only carry the very tippidy top line of gear, so i was talkin to the guy behind the counter, i told him how much i wanted to spend, he laughed in my face, and told me that i should spend a minimum of like 2 grand on my first setup. than, i told him there was no way i can afford that, because college/beer/gas/girlfriends are all very expensive, and i was tyring to be cool about it, and than i made the ignorant mistake of asking about internet retailers, and he got really angry and told me "if u buy anything on the internet, and bring it into my shop, i wouldnt guarantee i would do the best job i possibily could servicing it"...im a pretty chill guy, i understand the guy is just tryin to make a living, and if he hadnt been such a prick, and essentially threataned my life, and laughed in my face, as i have been upgradeing my gear piece by piece, i would have bought it from him, even though he charges a premium.

ST is a great group of people, wheneve ri call, everyone is real polite, they cut deals (a few bucks here and there makes a real diff to me). and ive never been disapointed or even have the slightest twinge of unsatisfaction, in ANYTHING they have done for me.:smiley20:

i am a loyal customer, and should i win the lottery, and have tons of money to spend on scuba gear, ill be spending it at ST, cuz they have always been good to me, evne when i couldnt afford a 500 dollar regulator

Geoff_T
06-14-2008, 00:14
[i had a similar situation, when i finnaly got my certificaiton, i decided i wanted to buy gear, and ima pretty cool guy, i dont make a killin in money, im 19, and i do construction during the summers when im not in school, so when i went to my LDS, wanting to buy gear, i looked around, and they only carry the very tippidy top line of gear, so i was talkin to the guy behind the counter, i told him how much i wanted to spend, he laughed in my face, and told me that i should spend a minimum of like 2 grand on my first setup. than, i told him there was no way i can afford that, because college/beer/gas/girlfriends are all very expensive, and i was tyring to be cool about it, and than i made the ignorant mistake of asking about internet retailers, and he got really angry and told me "if u buy anything on the internet, and bring it into my shop, i wouldnt guarantee i would do the best job i possibily could servicing it"...im a pretty chill guy, i understand the guy is just tryin to make a living, and if he hadnt been such a prick, and essentially threataned my life, and laughed in my face, as i have been upgradeing my gear piece by piece, i would have bought it from him, even though he charges a premium.

ST is a great group of people, wheneve ri call, everyone is real polite, they cut deals (a few bucks here and there makes a real diff to me). and ive never been disapointed or even have the slightest twinge of unsatisfaction, in ANYTHING they have done for me.:smiley20:

i am a loyal customer, and should i win the lottery, and have tons of money to spend on scuba gear, ill be spending it at ST, cuz they have always been good to me, evne when i couldnt afford a 500 dollar regulator


Wow just wow that sounds like a threat to me and I would definatly make a point of letting his boss know about that "if its not his shop" right before takeing myself and anybody else in my family that dives to another shop!

cgvmer
06-16-2008, 07:48
The internet has changed most retail operations, even the local supermarket now has an online service where I submit my order, they will deliver for a charge or just have it ready for me when I arrive.
All business must adapt or die....this goes for the wholesalers/manufacturers too!

Martin2
06-16-2008, 10:07
Was that harsh?? I hope not.

Thanks for the continued support.

Scott

Nope, just reality. The fact that Zeagle thinks of divers first and foremost is one of the reasons we love them.

USF_Diver
06-16-2008, 11:38
I got some crappy local dive shops, I was there to get a tank rental and I checked there light prices 169.00 for a 80.00 light on ST geez talk about markup.

crpntr133
06-17-2008, 19:32
My LDS is probably on its way out and to be honest I really don't care. I have my own gear and a compressor in the garage. I have tried to support the LDS when I could and have had nothing but trouble.

A few years back when I first got OW they did a customer appreciation with 10% discount on anything ordered or bought that day. So I ordered hood, gloves and a few other things. That same day the owner was trying to put up a "billboard" and needed some help. Being the good OW student and wanting to get on the good side of the owner, I helped. For helping he gave me another 10% off the order. Not much but it was a token. The funny part was, with the first 10% he matched Leisure Pros price. I told him this and he said that he couldn't afford to do that every day.
He owns the building and his wife was running the shop. The only bills that he had were the utilities. Yes he had an indoor pool but had it booked several times a week for parties and a physical therapist rented it during the week day.. I'm sure that he wasn't doing as good as I think he was but he isn't doing as bad as he thinks he is.

Scott, I'm glad to see a replacement Zeagle dealer in Indiana. I'll take Zeagle regs on an dive. Just wish that your products were ALL made in the USA.

ScottZeagle
06-18-2008, 09:27
Scott, I'm glad to see a replacement Zeagle dealer in Indiana. I'll take Zeagle regs on an dive. Just wish that your products were ALL made in the USA.

Yeah Wally, I get it...you mention it every time you post.

obrules15
06-18-2008, 18:13
I've said it before and I'll probably say it again I have lived in 6 different cities in the past 10 years and had a myriad of local dive shops some good some not so good. ST was my LDS for many years and after dealing with them I have a hard time dealing with other shops. I do not like feeling like I am being treated like I am stupid and I do not like being taken advantage of. Because of my past dealings with ST I am pretty much a loyal for life customer and refer everyone to them. How you treat people makes a difference.

blewgrass
06-28-2008, 02:33
When the manager insulted Zeagle gear the conversation got interesting. I countered that Zeagle seems ok for Coast Guard and military. Then they claimed that was only because they could get cheap pricing. "Hmmmm I said.."

Was the shop you went into actually a Zeagle dealer? If so, I would love for you to PM me the name of the shop...PLEASE???!!!!

Was that harsh?? I hope not.

Thanks for the continued support.

Scott

Scott,

No, they don't carry Zeagle, and I knew her bull script was bogus from the beginning. She has made a point of being snotty to me on every possible occasion because she knows I didn't buy from her. Military can get great pricing on anything they want, as can any volume buyer. The truth came out when I did my check out dive with an instructor affiliated with the shop. He was a super cool dude, who looked at my gear and said, "wow ... why do you have such high end gear...?" I smiled and showed him my scuba toys reg bag. He smiled at me and told me that they aren't allowed to say the "L" or "ST" word around their shop...but all the instructors and employees know (and click) those words often.

I bought my Ranger BC from a Coast Guard EMT used. I love it! No regrets at all here. There are cool LDS's in my area by the way. Bodega Bay Dive offered to order Zeagle gear at the same price as ST, and they have great deals on air fills, and are just plain cool people. You know... they GET it! Give people a little... and they will give back in business. Be pig headed and smug and you certainly won't see me again... ST is a mouse click away...

Steve

diver 85
07-09-2008, 15:28
Scott, I'm glad to see a replacement Zeagle dealer in Indiana. I'll take Zeagle regs on an dive. Just wish that your products were ALL made in the USA.

Yeah Wally, I get it...you mention it every time you post.

Ah, I thought he wore a tank banger around his head/mask to hold the mask on-----but now I understand............

diver 85
07-09-2008, 15:31
To the Op, it's your call---> do you want to pay twice as much as you need to???......On the other hand we have the internet, the way to screw some people........tuff call sometimes.........

Swanny
07-09-2008, 15:38
This whole thing is nothing more than an example of the free-market at work. The internet has vastly changed the existing business model of the SCUBA industry. Smart LDS operators will figure out a way to adapt and survive. Others will close. Not sad -- just a reality.

TexasDivers
07-09-2008, 16:25
Well I for one loved dealing with ST. I shopped around at 2 of my LDS and they both came back with prices that were close to $1000 more for the exact same gear (except their quote had a stilleto instead of a brigade). I can understand some markup but when I can buy a vacation for my wife and I with the difference come on!!! I wrote them back thanking them for their time and explained that the pricing at ST was better and that I look forward to hopefully doing buisness with them (the lds) in the future. Plus I still have my advance classes to take with them.

This weekend will be the test since I need tanks and weights to dive Sunday. It will be the first time face to face since buying our gear. I hope they are as cordial as they have been in the past. Will let you know if not.

Geoff_T
07-09-2008, 17:10
This whole thing is nothing more than an example of the free-market at work. The internet has vastly changed the existing business model of the SCUBA industry. Smart LDS operators will figure out a way to adapt and survive. Others will close. Not sad -- just a reality.

I agree, what you describe is basically what has happened in the professional photo and video world. It used to be that equipment was expensive required specialized knowledge and few people had the training/ background to do this type of work. The net has changed that making things cheaper and more efficient. The photographers who used to make excellent livings doing magazine work are now finding it really tough to do. However people who changed their business model to match and adopted digital and internet work are doing quite well. I know one guy who is doing extremely well photographing children equestrian events when things were film he could not have even afforded to process and catalog everything now with the net he just dumps it to a hard drive and puts it on his web site for sale.

diver 85
07-09-2008, 17:15
This whole thing is nothing more than an example of the free-market at work. The internet has vastly changed the existing business model of the SCUBA industry. Smart LDS operators will figure out a way to adapt and survive. Others will close. Not sad -- just a reality.

I agree, what you describe is basically what has happened in the professional photo and video world. It used to be that equipment was expensive required specialized knowledge and few people had the training/ background to do this type of work. The net has changed that making things cheaper and more efficient. The photographers who used to make excellent livings doing magazine work are now finding it really tough to do. However people who changed their business model to match and adopted digital and internet work are doing quite well. I know one guy who is doing extremely well photographing children equestrian events when things were film he could not have even afforded to process and catalog everything now with the net he just dumps it to a hard drive and puts it on his web site for sale.




I wonder sometimes what it will be like in say 10 to 15 years.........If someone can only find a way to fill my tanks online....hmmm, let me think a while.......lol.....