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castanagajt
06-02-2008, 22:17
:mad:

As you all now know that I got out of the military a year ago and had to sell my gear for an embarrassing amount of money because I thought that there isn't a place to dive once I come back here also that my PADI Open Water Cert hasn't been completed and PADI doesn't have a record of me just because of a crooked PADI instructor didn't want to process my paper work.

Now, that a spark starts in my my mind to give diving another chance and some scuba shop had to slap me at my face about it and giving me second thoughts about diving again.

Well, here is how the chain of events went. My brother "Jonas" and I went to
GR8DIVN Dive Shop around 1130am to extend a friendly hello and tell them that I am half way done with the SSI home study program also to buy an SSI Dive Log.

Just when I walked in there I just saw "dollars" on their faces when they saw my little brother. "Allan" asked me "When I will sign up for my open water course and how I will be paying for it debit or credit?" I replied "Not today, I am just half way on my book." Allan commented when you are ready for your open water, maybe we can outfit you with your total gear system."

This is when the trouble starts. I told him that I was already ahead of them in getting my total gear system and I ordered my total gear for $1,511 in SCUBATOYS.COM and can't wait for it to come in. He had an angry face on and muttered "you bought your gear online...great. So you come here to buy your equipment somewhere else and just get your training."

Then Tony jumped in and asked why I bought my gear from somewhere else. "I wanted Zeagle, it is a brand that I have seen in the military from time to time." He did not want to accept my answer. Allan butted in and said "He got fired in Sport Chalet and he should have bought Aqualung crap while you were there!" I don't care. Allan explains that it would take 4-6weeks for scubatoys to service my Zeagle gear and on the shop they can get their gear out in a day. Allan also said "Bring your total gear system in so that we can inspect that your gear is worthy for open water." I am aware of the turnaround time and still stood my ground.

In the back of my mind i thought with careful planning before my annuals, a few weeks delay for shipping and turnaround will not be a problem.

Vickie comes and talks to me in a pissed off mood and says that they will charge me 350.00 for the class from 300.00 even though I didn't buy my snorkel setup. "I am charging you 350.00 instead of 300.00 because I thought you were going to buy your total gear system from us, this is your consequence and I hope you learn from it!" In fact, I am going to pay 250.00 because I bought my study materials from them.

Ron all he said that he can't believe that I did not buy my gear from a real dive shop. All I can sum up from each one of them; Allan, Tony, Ron, Vickie was "GET OUT OF OUR STORE!"

Welcome to GR8Divn.Com (http://www.gr8divn.com)

I thought once my training is all done and over with it would be 372.00 plus what ever accessory I may buy and that I told them that I will do my specialty courses through them will make me a loyal customer.

I am not sure of their intentions in belittling me and try to make a fool of myself in my decision to buy my gear from SCUBATOYS.com. I see it as that I wanted Zeagle, they did not carry Zeagle and I am not interested in spending $2200 plus and 7.8% state tax for a scubapro knighthawk with a fancy gray whistle, Sherwood Wisdom 2, some octo, scubapro mk25 s600. Decent deal just too spendy for my blood.

My gear is $1,511 for Zeagle Brigade, Sherwood Wisdom 2, Zeagle Flathead reg set, Zeagle envoy octo. That sounds like a much better deal with the limited lifetime free parts for my regulator and BCD also 3 year free parts for my Sherwood from Scubatoys. All I pay for is shipping and handling and 50.00 for labor charge.

Post here and we would all want to hear your input about this issue. I thought that welcoming potential divers to this sport is foremost than all. Respect "To each his own" policy and treating the customer, right the first and every time.

FishFood
06-02-2008, 22:21
Im confused, are you still doing your training with them?

castanagajt
06-02-2008, 22:28
I want to persue SSI but it sucks to be treated like trash. These people were extremely helpful when they found out that I wanted to give diving a try at the first time to check the place out. Second time they were friendly when I signed up to pay for the SSI study materials which I have spent a $100.00 for it . I honestly don't know if I should even considering of going back.

Geoff_T
06-02-2008, 22:34
hmm my thoughts here is that somebody missed their calling selling used cars. Seriously if you are in vegas find another shop or better yet maby somebody can hook you up with a good independant instructer. Their price was a bit high to start with and then they slap you in the face because you are not going to commit to buying 2k worth of gear with them at the outset. Most divers I know do not own anything more than their mask fins and snorkel when they finish ow. They will pick these other items up over time as money allows so it alerdy sounds like they are just getting greedy. As this is pretty much where you sat when you walked in the door.

FishFood
06-02-2008, 22:34
Remember, you are the customer. You have no obligation to do busniess with them.

Although, looking at it from their point of veiw, I would be slightly insulted. Signing up with their training then buying your gear elsewhere is, well... I would have atleast gave them a chance to come down on the price for acceptable items.

Of course, treating a customer like dirt is no way to drum up busniess. Again, you're not obligated to do business with them, and a shop acting like you are is pittyfull. Are their any other SSI shops around?

ReefHound
06-02-2008, 22:49
Although, looking at it from their point of veiw, I would be slightly insulted. Signing up with their training then buying your gear elsewhere is, well... I would have atleast gave them a chance to come down on the price for acceptable items.

Come down on the price of what? He wanted a specific brand which they did not carry.

rawalker
06-02-2008, 23:01
I hope that you slap them back and tell them to take a flying leap.
Not all independant instructors are more expensive. If you want SSI contact them and ask for a list of instructors in your area and ask if it can be broken down by shop affiliations and independants.
I will not spend my money in shops that aren't greatful for the business I bring their way and without holding a grudge when I make purchases elsewhere.

FishFood
06-02-2008, 23:02
Although, looking at it from their point of veiw, I would be slightly insulted. Signing up with their training then buying your gear elsewhere is, well... I would have atleast gave them a chance to come down on the price for acceptable items.

Come down on the price of what? He wanted a specific brand which they did not carry.

Which is why i said acceptable items. The computer could have been bought there. The regs could have easily been replaced by an item they carried. The Brigade of course isn't exactly an item that can be replaced by another brand, but if the shop wants the business they'll get it. Show the shop you're an educated customer and they'll either show you the door or try to compete.

EDIT - In other words, show the shop that you want to give them your business and they'll respect you for it. If they don't/won't budge on prices/products, leave. -EDIT


Im (obviously) a fan of trying to help the little guy. Sometimes its works and you get a good local deal, and sometimes they're dicks that don't know how to operate a business (which sounds like the OP's LDS)... :smiley5:

Ryanh1801
06-02-2008, 23:05
That is ridiculous. Reading this I really can't believe you are even thinking of going back. Diving should be fun. Their is no excuse for that kind of behavior.I would have told them to take their scubapro knighthawk and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Ryanh1801
06-02-2008, 23:15
Although, looking at it from their point of veiw, I would be slightly insulted. Signing up with their training then buying your gear elsewhere is, well... I would have atleast gave them a chance to come down on the price for acceptable items.

Come down on the price of what? He wanted a specific brand which they did not carry.

Which is why i said acceptable items. The computer could have been bought there. The regs could have easily been replaced by an item they carried. The Brigade of course isn't exactly an item that can be replaced by another brand, but if the shop wants the business they'll get it. Show the shop you're an educated customer and they'll either show you the door or try to compete.

EDIT - In other words, show the shop that you want to give them your business and they'll respect you for it. If they don't/won't budge on prices/products, leave. -EDIT


Im (obviously) a fan of trying to help the little guy. Sometimes its works and you get a good local deal, and sometimes they're dicks that don't know how to operate a business (which sounds like the OP's LDS)... :smiley5:


I don't follow your logic at all. The shop should have been respectable and earned his business on small things. What business is it of theirs to know and care where you bought your equipment. Guess im lucky I have never ran into this. ST is somewhat close, so I can go in their and be treated great no matter what im doing in there. I have also bought some small stuff and air from a shop down the street, they have always been nice and respectful to me and never questioned why I bought my gear elsewhere( which is what I expect). How people like the ones in the OP stay in business amaze me.

castanagajt
06-03-2008, 00:30
As of now I am looking for another SSI training facility and I have come up with no luck so far. I like that idea with calling SSI and send me a list of instructors and the breakdown of shops they may be.

I will admit that upon my first visit I told them that I wanted to take SSI through them.

I also told them that I really want to buy a whole Zeagle set up for $1,400 and they did try to let up in selling their brands but all I got was 10% off of 888.00 Sherwood Wisdom 2 computer if I bought their $2,200 total gear system. Wow that $88.00 wouldn't cover half for the state tax.

They had expensive Atomic regulators, Scubapro MK25 S600 regulators galore, a single Sherwood Scuba SR1 regulator, Dive rite trans pack BCD, Scubapro Knighthawk BCD and one single Aeries reef rider BCD on display. I would think this would force the new guy or girl to buy expensive gear that they may not need.

Maybe it is best that I won't bring my total gear system there so I don't need to hear their ridicule. With the price of 350.00 altogether for their SSI OW I might as well as borrow their gear because it is part of their set price, anyways.

Geoff_T
06-03-2008, 02:09
if you go to the ssi web site they have a tool to search for affiliated dive centers. Or you could do as others have suggested and shoot them an e-mail and ask about independent instructers as well. Also ask around who do you know that dives they may be able to point you in the direction of a competent instructer.

oddbod
06-03-2008, 03:54
Go elsewhere, even if it works out a bit dearer, there is no way with that attitude that they are going to take the time to teach you properly anymore.
When you get your cert card go in and get an airfill (even if you have to borrow a tank from someone ) and then never go near the store again. But keep diving because most guys out there are nice, the ones that aren't don't deserve our business.

ReefHound
06-03-2008, 08:46
Which is why i said acceptable items. The computer could have been bought there. The regs could have easily been replaced by an item they carried. The Brigade of course isn't exactly an item that can be replaced by another brand, but if the shop wants the business they'll get it. Show the shop you're an educated customer and they'll either show you the door or try to compete.

EDIT - In other words, show the shop that you want to give them your business and they'll respect you for it. If they don't/won't budge on prices/products, leave. -EDIT

We both know this shop wouldn't be happy with part of his business. We've all seen this type of shop before. Just their insinuation that scubatoys is not a "real" dive shop reveal either blatant ignorance or petty jealousy.

I understand your general point of preferring to help the small guy or the local guy but I disagree with the mindset that we the customers should be the ones doing backflips trying to please the shop as if we're trying to date a hot babe. I disagree that we should be willing to compromise on our preferred gear to accomodate the brands the shop carries or that we should pay significantly more for it in the name of "support".

Geoff_T
06-03-2008, 11:56
We both know this shop wouldn't be happy with part of his business. We've all seen this type of shop before. Just their insinuation that scubatoys is not a "real" dive shop reveal either blatant ignorance or petty jealousy.

I understand your general point of preferring to help the small guy or the local guy but I disagree with the mindset that we the customers should be the ones doing backflips trying to please the shop as if we're trying to date a hot babe. I disagree that we should be willing to compromise on our preferred gear to accomodate the brands the shop carries or that we should pay significantly more for it in the name of "support".

Back here in the world I own a freelance busness. It occures to me that when I pay a person for training be it photographic or dive. I am makeing them a service provider in some way. Now why would you tolorate that kind of treatment form somebody who is oue of your service providers in any busness. Even if you viewed them as a client this would make them nothing more than a grinder and not worth working for in the end. Just somthing I thought about over breakfast.

terrillja
06-03-2008, 12:18
We have a shop near us that has the same attitude, they will not fill any tank which does not have a vis sticker from a "local" shop. So when I brought in a tank from ST with the ST vis sticker and all info on it, he said he would not fill it without ding his own vis, at $30. Later on I went there, just trying to use up the fill card we had bought, and he had no trouble filling my other cylinders which just had the PSI sticker w/ inspector #. No contact info, no location, nothing. How a sticker with an inspector # and all the shop's info could be viewed as more suspicious/ dangerous than a PSI sticker with just the inspector # is beyond me.

This is a shop who knows my dad and I, we each have bought a DS, (undergarments, the whole package) from them, taken a specilaty course, and I bought a tank there, and he still treats us like that. Once the fill card is used up, we won't be back.

They also have a somewhat questionable practice of not having the PADI cards mailed to you, but rather to the shop, so you have to go there to get them.

Navy OnStar
06-03-2008, 14:57
:mad: Vickie comes and talks to me in a pissed off mood and says that they will charge me 350.00 for the class from 300.00 even though I didn't buy my snorkel setup. "I am charging you 350.00 instead of 300.00 because I thought you were going to buy your total gear system from us, this is your consequence and I hope you learn from it!" In fact, I am going to pay 250.00 because I bought my study materials from them.

I wouldn't be going back to a store that tries to up the price just because I didn't buy ALL my gear from them. I would tell them thank you for the SSI materials and that is the last dollar you'll get.

I take my classes at one LDS but I bought almost all my gear at another LDS and ScubaToys because I wanted the best pice and the LDS I took my classes from is overpriced and won't come down. So far I think I've spent about 8,000 at ST and a competing LDS because of it. They cold've had a big sale from me but they were idiots when it comes to business. Still nice people though when it comes to classes and filling tanks from ST.:smiley20:

OnStar

Grizbear98
06-03-2008, 18:23
There would be no way I would go back there. As someone that works in retail, you simply cannot treat customers like that, it kind of makes me sick. At my LDS when I first started diving, I didn't even ask them to go down in price on my gloves and boots, but since I was new they took a good bit off of them, I didn't even know you could barter with them. I rent through them and also bought my snorkel and a mask case through them, which they gave me a decent deal on, but this is before I knew of scuba toys. If they pulled that on me, I don't think I'd go back. The buying power comes from the consumer.

ScottW
06-04-2008, 08:53
As of now I am looking for another SSI training facility and I have come up with no luck so far. I like that idea with calling SSI and send me a list of instructors and the breakdown of shops they may be.
Unfortunately SSi doesn't allow independent instructors like other agencies. As I posted at another forum you need to drop that store from your favorites list and find another. If your set on SSI, these stores have SSI affiliations according to the SSI site

DESERT DIVERS
5720 E CHARLESTON BLVD
LAS VEGAS
and
COLORADO RIVER DIVERS
1321 NEVADA HIGHWAY
BOULDER CITY

paulwall
06-04-2008, 10:48
As of now I am looking for another SSI training facility and I have come up with no luck so far. I like that idea with calling SSI and send me a list of instructors and the breakdown of shops they may be.

I will admit that upon my first visit I told them that I wanted to take SSI through them.

I also told them that I really want to buy a whole Zeagle set up for $1,400 and they did try to let up in selling their brands but all I got was 10% off of 888.00 Sherwood Wisdom 2 computer if I bought their $2,200 total gear system. Wow that $88.00 wouldn't cover half for the state tax.

They had expensive Atomic regulators, Scubapro MK25 S600 regulators galore, a single Sherwood Scuba SR1 regulator, Dive rite trans pack BCD, Scubapro Knighthawk BCD and one single Aeries reef rider BCD on display. I would think this would force the new guy or girl to buy expensive gear that they may not need.

Maybe it is best that I won't bring my total gear system there so I don't need to hear their ridicule. With the price of 350.00 altogether for their SSI OW I might as well as borrow their gear because it is part of their set price, anyways.

First of all, thank you for your service.

Secondly, the only thing you did wrong (in my opinion) is buy stuff without trying it in various makes/models/sizes.
However, I am very happy with all of my Zeagle purchases, and with ST's service, so you can recover from a revised decision, if it turns out you'd like some other gear better.

ST's turnaround for service in my experience is < 1 week. Excellent service, and I live in LA.

A search of SSI's web Site (http://www.divessi.com/fac_search)

Shows one other facility in LV.
NV 89142 LAS VEGAS
5720 E CHARLESTON BLVD
DESERT DIVERS
NV 89142 LAS VEGAS
5720 E CHARLESTON BLVD
http://www.divessi.com/data/Image/icons/info_20.gif (http://www.divessi.com/code/thickbox/facility_quest_show.php?facility_id=801941&language=ENG&keepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=450&width=700)

Instructors:
47408 Aguilar, Carlos
36264 Gabriel, Lance
22177 Lynch, Alicia
22178 Lynch, Douglas
8474 Westrich, Mark

castanagajt
06-04-2008, 23:42
Thanks for all your contributions to this.

Rogue and PaulWall thanks for the exact address for desert divers. I will definitely give them a call.

Rogue,

Many thanks for supporting our troops.

As for testing out different products. I tried the scubapro knighthawk and loved it in Okinawa. I worked in Sport Chalet fora brief period but got to try some of the SeaQuest, Mares, Sherwood Scuba BCD. Out of the three brands Sport Chalet carried I liked the feel of the Seaquest Balance.

After reading and researching for many months I have concluded that I will want Zeagle the most out of manufacturers like cressi, seaquest, sherwood, mares, scubapro, tilos, many others.

So yesterday, my brother and I went to a local dive shop called "Neptune D Divers" the owner was very nice and very apathetic for my bad experience at "Gr8divin." The deal fell short with scubatoys, my fault for running my credit card up. So "Neptune Divers" owner let me make a layaway plan that we both agreed of 125.00 every month for a full year. In the mean time I will just do my courses while I keep on chipping away to someday own my own total dive gear system.

mitsuguy
06-05-2008, 07:36
Check out a place called Scubaviews... it's a small shop, but the owner/instructor Bill is a great guy.... I did my OW there, and got a better deal on some Tusa stuff than Scubatoys lists on their site (I didn't mind paying a few extra because of tax and no 10% discount) At any rate, they are PADI, but I believe they also carry Zeagle gear as well... Not to say you shouldn't buy from Scubatoys, but I am sure they can service it if you need it done locally...

Any reason you are dead set on SSI? With just a basic Open Water course, all of the above will be pretty much the same, with the difference being the quality of the instructor... I had a private pool lesson, and my OW checkout dives was just myself and one other person - Bill works around your schedule, not the other way around...

Just a thought...

rumblefish
07-01-2008, 07:38
"...this is your consequence and I hope you learn from it!"

I can't believe she said that. Someone has to remind those people who is the customer and who is really doing who a favor. In a word, run. You want to have a good relationship with your local diveshop. An experience like this could leave a bad taste in your mouth for a long time. Believe me, I know. The shop I took OW with was so bad, I almost decided to quite diving before I started. Thankfully I didn't, but I have never stepped foot into that shop since and will never spend another dime of my money there.

cowgirldiver
07-01-2008, 10:48
I remember reading this thread when it first started and thinking "what the...." I work in a service facility. The fact is, that if you don't treat the customer right, they will go elsewhere. This is especially important for a small business as most scuba shops are.
I know there are others of you that have had "hobbies" (hard to think of scuba as a hobby but that is what everyone I know calls it "my new hobby") before scuba. With all the other things I did, I seldom only went to one shop. I'm a bargain shopper-I like to look at different places to see who gives me the best deal. But, if someone treats me right, really right, I feel a certain loyalty to them and will pay above what I would pay others.

FailedExistence
07-01-2008, 10:56
After being scared away from the first dive shop we used I bought our equipment online. Once I found another shop to start using and frequenting I was completely upfront and honest with them - they were very supportive and even commented that our gear setup was really good and that we should be happy with it for a long time. That's how I expect to be treated ... the experience you had would have caused me to tell them where they could shove their poor customer service skills.