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View Full Version : Divemaster Advantages and Disadvantages?



Ryanh1801
06-05-2008, 23:11
Need to figure out this summer if I want to take the DM/ Rescue course this next semester. Problem is I really have no interest in helping with classes, well I think it would be fun, but in all reality I will never use it. Im really more interested in just diving and getting training in Tech area's later when I build up some more dives.
So far this is my list.

Advantages.
- More diving
- More education in general.
- Free diving while in the class.
- Get Rescue cert.
- Its free.

Disadvantages
- Less time to do the type of diving I want to do on the weekends.
- Ill never use the DM cert.
- Liability issues.
- I have issues with some of the way things are taught. (basically the difference between what NAUI says and what would happen in the real world and how things IMO should be done)


About all I can think of, I would love to hear some people that have gone through the course, and what they think.

Thanks

CompuDude
06-06-2008, 01:05
It's a REALLY good education. Even if you don't end up using it, you'll be happy you did later.

Don't sweat the liability issues.

buddhasummer
06-06-2008, 05:20
If its free why not, you almost certainly will be a better diver for it and if you have the time...I wish I could do it for free.

WV Diver
06-06-2008, 05:51
Taking the DM course should, depending on instructors, sharpen your skills and make you a better diver even if you never help with a class. And you can't beat free my friend.

ReefHound
06-06-2008, 08:05
Some of your bullet points conflict. If you aren't going to use the DM cert then how does it take away from your weekends or give you free diving in class?

Everyone should take Rescue, IMO. You not only learn how to help others but how to help yourself. DM will teach you to be more observant which will help in all your diving. Working classes keeps you fresh on the skills.

I think liability concerns are overblown. I'm sure there are cases where people get sued unfairly but you see all kinds of wierd stuff in the news that never seems to happen to people you know.

As for disagreeing with how things are taught versus the real world, I would caution that you not get ahead of yourself and not start thinking you know better than the established industry, esp. at your experience level. The skills and procedures were developed as the result of a lot of thought, discussion, and data.

ReefHound
06-06-2008, 08:06
Oh yeah, you forgot to mention the money in the Advantages list. :smilie39:

chinacat46
06-06-2008, 08:31
To me there doesn't seem to be much of a question. It's free, you get credit for it, it will improve your skills and you get to dive. Even if you have no interest in being a DM the rescue skills and first aid alone are worth learning. GO FOR IT!

Travelnsj
06-06-2008, 10:06
I think it is a no brainer. I am going to take a rescue class. I had a friend who just went thru this
http://forum.scubatoys.com/tragedies-accidents-unfortunate-events-etc/13858-thinking-about-maldives-beware.html

Due to CO poisioning the DM's were out and my friend (who is a DM) and his wife were the only ones on board who knew CPR!

DiveSooner
06-06-2008, 10:09
I agree with the comments, go for it Ryan!

Ryanh1801
06-06-2008, 13:14
Some of your bullet points conflict. If you aren't going to use the DM cert then how does it take away from your weekends or give you free diving in class?

Everyone should take Rescue, IMO. You not only learn how to help others but how to help yourself. DM will teach you to be more observant which will help in all your diving. Working classes keeps you fresh on the skills.

I think liability concerns are overblown. I'm sure there are cases where people get sued unfairly but you see all kinds of wierd stuff in the news that never seems to happen to people you know.

As for disagreeing with how things are taught versus the real world, I would caution that you not get ahead of yourself and not start thinking you know better than the established industry, esp. at your experience level. The skills and procedures were developed as the result of a lot of thought, discussion, and data.

Well mainly take away from my diving time while in the class, I want to say they do 6 weekends. Some helping with OW and the AOW class weekends.

Ill be interested to see how much more we do in the Rescue part. We did a pretty in depth rescue part in out Master diver cert, which was really good. Also our instructor is a paramedic so he had some good real world info.

I really was not sure about the liability part, just seemed like something to think about, but after reading yall's thoughts, guess its not that big of a deal.

As for the last part, well their where certain things I had a big problem with, and after talking to much more experienced divers, my concerns were valid, but its just how its taught.


Thanks to everyone that posted. Guess ill go ahead and sign up for it. :smiley20:

FailedExistence
06-06-2008, 13:26
If it were me, I would do it just for the experience and skills learned.

Out of curiosity how are you getting it for free?

Ryanh1801
06-06-2008, 13:30
If it were me, I would do it just for the experience and skills learned.

Out of curiosity how are you getting it for free?

Flat rate tuition, its offered through my school.

PlatypusMan
06-06-2008, 13:32
Oh yeah, you forgot to mention the money in the Advantages list. :smilie39:

...and the women..don't forget the women, man! :smilie39:

PPM

thesmoothdome
06-09-2008, 21:54
Oh yeah, you forgot to mention the money in the Advantages list. :smilie39:

...and the women..don't forget the women, man! :smilie39:

PPM

Chicks dig Rescue Divers :smiley31:

Vercingetorix
06-09-2008, 22:08
You should be able to take Rescue without going the full DM route. PlatypusMan was my TA during AOW and Rescue. And he told me then...the women really go for Rescue Divers. Even fat, old, balding Rescue Divers, like me. I'm still waiting, Platy...

rumblefish
06-09-2008, 23:15
It's a REALLY good education. Even if you don't end up using it, you'll be happy you did later.

Don't sweat the liability issues.

Can you elaborate on the liability issues. I'm thinking about taking a DM course. However, the idea that I need to pay ~$300/yr for insurance to protect myself kind of turns me off.

Divingguy
06-10-2008, 07:02
As a DM, you are a diving PROFESSIONAL. That rank or rating carries with it direct liability in various circumstances. NAUI explicitly requires that any DM carry liability insurance in order to be "active" status. I have got to tell you, I did DM to improve my personal skills, and because I love teaching and helping others, but considering that I get paid NOTHING in any direct sense, other than student tips, and discounts on gear, but will be sued right along with the instructor if some student gets injured, the liability is a VERY REAL concern, at least for me. If you want to improve skills, without going Pro, do Rescue, and Master Diver.

CompuDude
06-10-2008, 15:20
As a DM, you are a diving PROFESSIONAL. That rank or rating carries with it direct liability in various circumstances. NAUI explicitly requires that any DM carry liability insurance in order to be "active" status. I have got to tell you, I did DM to improve my personal skills, and because I love teaching and helping others, but considering that I get paid NOTHING in any direct sense, other than student tips, and discounts on gear, but will be sued right along with the instructor if some student gets injured, the liability is a VERY REAL concern, at least for me. If you want to improve skills, without going Pro, do Rescue, and Master Diver.

So don't pay NAUI, PADI, or whoever their dues, and go "inactive". Then you're not officially a DM anymore.

If the poo hits the fan, everyone around is going to be sued, DM or not. An Inactive DM is no longer a professional and does not have to meet the same standard of care. (IANAL)

thesmoothdome
06-14-2008, 07:51
As a DM, you are a diving PROFESSIONAL. That rank or rating carries with it direct liability in various circumstances. NAUI explicitly requires that any DM carry liability insurance in order to be "active" status. I have got to tell you, I did DM to improve my personal skills, and because I love teaching and helping others, but considering that I get paid NOTHING in any direct sense, other than student tips, and discounts on gear, but will be sued right along with the instructor if some student gets injured, the liability is a VERY REAL concern, at least for me. If you want to improve skills, without going Pro, do Rescue, and Master Diver.

So don't pay NAUI, PADI, or whoever their dues, and go "inactive". Then you're not officially a DM anymore.

If the poo hits the fan, everyone around is going to be sued, DM or not. An Inactive DM is no longer a professional and does not have to meet the same standard of care. (IANAL)

Agreed. If someone gets hurt on a charter you're on, everyone's going to be a target for the vultures. Unless you're working on that particular charter or class, I can't really see someone with professional card being any more liable than someone with a rescue card. Of course, I'm not a lawyer and have morals and scruples, so my thoughts may differ from the vultures.

Sansho
06-14-2008, 09:03
Having just completed it myself, I'd say everyone should do Rescue Diver. If you have the Divemaster program available to you at no charge, I'd do it for the additional education/experience. Just don't act like the Divemaster documented in Lessons for Life in the current Scuba Diving magazine.

JugglingMonkeys
06-14-2008, 16:16
How do you get equipment discounts if you're a DM? How does that work?
Is it direct from manufacturers?

I'm Rescue now, and considering doing DM.

Thanks

thesmoothdome
06-14-2008, 17:40
How do you get equipment discounts if you're a DM? How does that work?
Is it direct from manufacturers?

I'm Rescue now, and considering doing DM.

Thanks

Most of my discounts came directly through the shops that I worked for. Occassionally, manufacturers would offer "key deals" through the shop to get DMs and instructors in their gear. I remember paying $400.00 for a Viking Sport and $150.00 for a Poseidon Odin through a key deal. Beat the hell out of the discount we received from the shop.

scubasamurai
06-14-2008, 22:02
if your a DM and work for a shop, they may cover your liability insurance, and take care of you on the trips. as long as you teach or help out with some courses. the equipment i usually get is when i am in the shop and the rep comes in, so i spend as much time in the shop as possible if i am not diving. plus look at it this way. the more classes you help with the better prepared you will be if you take the instructor course.

have fun do the DM course you will dive more than you think and might get lucky teaching those models !!

cgvmer
06-14-2008, 22:17
My son and I just finished Rescue, and I wish I had the time to get my DM (and instructor) but I just don't
If it was no additional cost, I would take it, and I also agree Rescue should be the minimum goal for MOST divers.

Desert_Diver
06-15-2008, 11:43
I have done both Rescue and DM (both PADI). Rescue was, without a doubt, one of the funnest diving classes I have taken. I was almost all "in water" with the exception of the first aid/CPR classes. I had a ball and I learned worthwhile stuff.

DM is much more theory and book learning oriented. I am glad I took it since all prior PADI classes taught you what to do but they were very light on why you do it. Physics, physiology and decompression material was interesting and valuable to me. Some of the other material was somewhat business/marketting oriented but I survived anyway. I'm glad I took the class and felt that it was time well spent.

Art

in_cavediver
06-15-2008, 17:08
You know, I personally think there are better classes than DM for someone who doesn't want to be a pro. If it is truly free, there isn't a downside to doing it but failing to get the liabily insurance to become 'active'.

I am an inactive DM. Did it for a few years and enjoyed it. Now though, I get more fun and enjoyment from the tec side though I still threaten to break down and get my instructor card every now and agian.

Crimediver
06-15-2008, 18:37
I took the DM course mainly for the professional level of diving education you get. I also did not feel like instructing as I was not crazy about the liability that went with it or paying for insurance. The OW classes I helped with was akin to trying to herd cats. Stuff can and will happen that you need to be ready for. I only later went into instruction as my state LE agency is self-insured so I could be active without personally paying insurance but I only instructed agency divers.

Liability is the main issue for me as well. I am still not crazy about the liability but it goes with the job. I also have to instruct other high liability areas such as police firearms so I figured why not. Officers I have instructed in firearms and officer survival training have killed people and I have not been sued. Not all incidents result in lawsuits, despite the growing number of litigation. In my case I was only involved in the training of state officers. In the event I was sued the Attorney General's office should represent me if something goes bad.

The key is to train people right, in a professional manner and in accordance with accepted standards and you should be OK.

I would take the course for the knowlege. It is worth it. And chicks dig Divemasters over rescue divers any day of the week.

PlatypusMan
06-16-2008, 07:44
..And chicks dig Divemasters over rescue divers any day of the week.

Hey! You've obviously never reaped the rewards of fighting the Dark Overlord's minions, eh? :smiley2:

PPM

cgvmer
06-16-2008, 08:00
Liability issues shouldn't be that bad, unless you are representing yourself as a DM you shouldn't be held to the professional standards of a DM.

Joe_Tucker
09-01-2008, 21:53
I'm in the middle of my DM course and am really enjoying it. I'm in the same boat as you - no interest in doing the work of a DM - just want to be the best diver I can be. Take the class - it's worth it.

BillS
09-02-2008, 09:23
Who knows, you may change your mind in the future and decide to instruct or have a chance to work in a dive shop. I would sure take advantage of the no-cost training.