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JugglingMonkeys
06-15-2008, 05:40
Here is my current understanding:

In PADI, an open water dive is at least 15 feet deep, and either 50 cubic feet of gas breathed, or 20 minutes bottom time.

There should also be a minimum of at least 10 minutes surface interval between dives, otherwise it is all one dive.

Is the above correct or does it need adjustment?

Thanks

Vercingetorix
06-15-2008, 06:57
For NAUI, during certification dives, it was 20 minutes below the surface.

When not doing certification dives, some folks count just getting wet as a dive, with neither duration nor depth relevant. Some folks even count pool dives.

in_cavediver
06-15-2008, 06:59
Here is my current understanding:

In PADI, an open water dive is at least 15 feet deep, and either 50 cubic feet of gas breathed, or 20 minutes bottom time.

There should also be a minimum of at least 10 minutes surface interval between dives, otherwise it is all one dive.

Is the above correct or does it need adjustment?

Thanks

These are the training guidelines and can have one more modification for ice diving - used 1/3 of the available gas supply.There are a few other specific cases such as the rescue class and the DM rescue scenario.

To me, and pretty much everybody else, the lines drawn for defining a dive don't really matter. Does it matter if I have 550 or 650 dives (or whatever my log book is up to). Nope. I just have some great memories of specific events.

tc_rain
06-15-2008, 07:19
I thought it was 5 mins SI padi required

mitsuguy
06-15-2008, 08:05
Well, I don't like the minimum 15 feet thing... I dive every thursday, and max depth is 11 feet, 12 if I really try in one spot... (dig a small hole) but it's an hour and a half long drift dive in a shallow river... it's also one of the better practice dives as near perfect buoyancy is required to have a good time else you are at the surface or dragging the bottom... I do think 15 minutes is a good maximum with a 10 minute surface interval between is good, as a general rule, but at the same time if what you wanted to see only took you 10 minutes down and back, that's a dive as well... the requirements are really only for training dives....

personally, I don't get wet unless I'll be out there for 15 minutes minimum, so every dive I do, I count, for the most part... I do not count pool time though...

thesmoothdome
06-15-2008, 10:23
Like it or not, those are the standards for training purposes. IMHO, I think that even 15 feet is insuficient for training purposes because we're suppossed to be training people to dive in a variety of situations within the scope of the course they're taking. How do you tell someone that they have the training to go to 60 feet (recommended OW limit followed by very few) if the deepest they've seen during training is 15 feet. I know not everyone has access to a 3000 foot canyon right outside their front door, but I always made sure that my skills were done in 15-25 feet and that my tours, depending on the cert dive and the group were deeper than that.

SkuaSeptember
06-15-2008, 10:38
Here is my current understanding:

In PADI, an open water dive is at least 15 feet deep, and either 50 cubic feet of gas breathed, or 20 minutes bottom time.

There should also be a minimum of at least 10 minutes surface interval between dives, otherwise it is all one dive.

Is the above correct or does it need adjustment?

Thanks

Also required are:
a. a briefing
b. equipment assembly
c. an entry
d. an exit
e. debriefing and equipment disassembly
f. logging the dive
D&E pretty much set a minimum SI.
Keep in mind that these are minimum training standards for classes. When diving for yourself, use your own judgement. BIG BROTHER is NOT watching you!
Consider this; if conditions warrant that I break my class into smaller groups, take one group out for 30 or 40 minutes, come in with them and then take the second group out without gearing down or changing tanks myself, by training standards I've only done one dive. I've had weekends when I've done each training dive 3 times without gearing down because my abilities, breathing rates and needs are very different from those of my students. The standards apply to what the students log during the classes, not to what anyone else logs.

mitsuguy
06-15-2008, 10:54
Like it or not, those are the standards for training purposes.

For training purposes, I agree, again, to an extent... there is better training for certain things in the 3-11 feet of water than there is in a lake thats 300' deep... but again, it's my logbook, I'll put in what I want :)

SkuaSeptember
06-15-2008, 11:11
Like it or not, those are the standards for training purposes. IMHO, I think that even 15 feet is insuficient for training purposes because we're suppossed to be training people to dive in a variety of situations within the scope of the course they're taking. How do you tell someone that they have the training to go to 60 feet (recommended OW limit followed by very few) if the deepest they've seen during training is 15 feet. I know not everyone has access to a 3000 foot canyon right outside their front door, but I always made sure that my skills were done in 15-25 feet and that my tours, depending on the cert dive and the group were deeper than that.

I agree with most of what you say here depending on the training conditions, but believe that 15 - 20 ft is ideal for working on bouyancy skills and make sure that my students have to make many minor adjustments throughout their dives.
Another factor that comes into play is visibility and temps. When temps are in the 50's and vis of 10ft is an average day, 15ft is a good day and 5ft is not unusual, depths of 20 - 25ft feel mighty deep to the average student. Few divers that get certified under these conditions have much trouble with most resort destination diving, but the reverse seems to be more of a challenge.
JMHO

thesmoothdome
06-15-2008, 11:49
Like it or not, those are the standards for training purposes. IMHO, I think that even 15 feet is insuficient for training purposes because we're suppossed to be training people to dive in a variety of situations within the scope of the course they're taking. How do you tell someone that they have the training to go to 60 feet (recommended OW limit followed by very few) if the deepest they've seen during training is 15 feet. I know not everyone has access to a 3000 foot canyon right outside their front door, but I always made sure that my skills were done in 15-25 feet and that my tours, depending on the cert dive and the group were deeper than that.

I agree with most of what you say here depending on the training conditions, but believe that 15 - 20 ft is ideal for working on bouyancy skills and make sure that my students have to make many minor adjustments throughout their dives.
Another factor that comes into play is visibility and temps. When temps are in the 50's and vis of 10ft is an average day, 15ft is a good day and 5ft is not unusual, depths of 20 - 25ft feel mighty deep to the average student. Few divers that get certified under these conditions have much trouble with most resort destination diving, but the reverse seems to be more of a challenge.
JMHO

I totally agree. Temps in the 50s are miserable for students regardless of the vis. Being in well used wet suits, sitting on the bottom with little movement while everyone completes their skills is not fun and it's important for the instructor and DMs to be cognizant of that fact and keep a close eye on the students comfort. Yes, those certified in crappy conditions are usually much more comofortable while warm water diving in pristine conditions, but many students plan on diving locally too and if craps the norm, I do believe that they should get some experience diving in it under the guidance of an instructor and DM or two (or 3) before they're dumped off the side of a California boat with only topside support.

SkuaSeptember
06-15-2008, 11:57
Amen to that! We usually encourage our students to join us for a few fun dives after certification just to get some more experience and meet some other divers.

JugglingMonkeys
06-15-2008, 12:14
Sorry I should have been more specific.
My question related to PADI Master Diver certification - requirement of 50 "dives."
Does that make a difference?

thesmoothdome
06-15-2008, 12:21
To be considered a dive by PADI, and therefore count toward certification, it would need to be at least 15 feet for 20 minutes. That said, If you present a log book showing that you have 50 dives, I highly doubt most instructors are going to study each and every page looking for dives to exclude from your count. In truth, anyone can create a log book showing they have 1000s of dives.

JugglingMonkeys
06-15-2008, 12:24
My log book is my dive computer dowloaded to my desktop computer and then printed out.

And it never lies regarding depth or time!

Thanks for your answers!

SkuaSeptember
06-15-2008, 12:42
By the time you finish AOW, 5 specialties and Rescue you should be getting close if you do much diving on your own. If you don't do much diving diving outside of classes, you really aren't practised at what you have learned. Put in that context, the training depths and times should be considered the bare minimums and you should endeavor to add to the depth and breadth of your experience if the MSD rating is to actually mean something.