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DivingCRNA
07-01-2008, 22:07
OK, I am totally sick of my weight belt (just 16 lbs, but still....it sucks) with double AL 80s. I carry enough gas with these for what I am doing now, but see Tec Deep in the next year or two.

So, I am looking at steel double to lose the stupid belt and to carry some more gas. I have been pricing HP 100s, but have read a fair bit about how heavy they are. I have 2 buddies that love their HP steel 100s.

I dive fresh water in a 5 mm neoprene drysuit with a 6 lb steel backplate and DR Rec wing. Trimix would be FAR in the future, if ever just because I am not sure why I would do it around here.

Any thoughts before I pull the trigger on something that I do not like?

wmspdi
07-01-2008, 22:14
I have a set of double HP 100s on an aluminum back plate and a Rec Wing. I start off the dive about 16 pounds negative at the surface due to the swing weight of the air. I still carry a little weight to drop if needed early on in the dive. I love them.

texdiveguy
07-01-2008, 22:18
I have dove alot of different configurations.

I love my doubled alm. 80's for wet suit diving in many situations.....but I prefer using a set of double steel lp 85's, and when over filled they hold a good amount of gas and for me are vary easy to handle in all configurations of gear.

Double HP steel 100's are another fine choice as a general fit for most dive situations and gear configurations.

Have you asked your buddies if you can barrow a set of their HP 100's for a few trial dives??

crpntr133
07-02-2008, 01:27
Borrow the 100's first and see if you like them. That is my plan for later this year. Trimming out may be an issue but probably not.

navyhmc
07-02-2008, 01:38
Go big Don: 130's! :D

Rainer
07-02-2008, 06:26
OK, I am totally sick of my weight belt (just 16 lbs, but still....it sucks) with double AL 80s. I carry enough gas with these for what I am doing now, but see Tec Deep in the next year or two.

So, I am looking at steel double to lose the stupid belt and to carry some more gas. I have been pricing HP 100s, but have read a fair bit about how heavy they are. I have 2 buddies that love their HP steel 100s.

I dive fresh water in a 5 mm neoprene drysuit with a 6 lb steel backplate and DR Rec wing. Trimix would be FAR in the future, if ever just because I am not sure why I would do it around here.

Any thoughts before I pull the trigger on something that I do not like?

So you want to go deep, but don't want trimix? I don't get it.

In any case, are you trying to lighten your total gear weight, or just remove weight from the weight belt? If the latter, why not just add an 11# v-weight to the doubles (or are you already using one)? AL80s are fine for dives up to about 30 minutes in the 150-160 range. If you're not going to be adding He, you probably won't be going deeper, in which case, you probably don't need more gas (assuming one dive per set of doubles).

If you go to the steels, you'll be able to knock of about 12#. Doesn't really matter if they're LP85s, HP100s, or even HP130s. Most of the newer exemption (3442) cylinders all have the same basic -2# negative buoyancy.

I'd highly suggest trying any sets before you purchase, to make sure you're comfortable in them.

I have AL80s, LP85s, and HP130s. I like the 85s best.

DivingCRNA
07-02-2008, 07:21
OK, I am totally sick of my weight belt (just 16 lbs, but still....it sucks) with double AL 80s. I carry enough gas with these for what I am doing now, but see Tec Deep in the next year or two.

So, I am looking at steel double to lose the stupid belt and to carry some more gas. I have been pricing HP 100s, but have read a fair bit about how heavy they are. I have 2 buddies that love their HP steel 100s.

I dive fresh water in a 5 mm neoprene drysuit with a 6 lb steel backplate and DR Rec wing. Trimix would be FAR in the future, if ever just because I am not sure why I would do it around here.

Any thoughts before I pull the trigger on something that I do not like?

So you want to go deep, but don't want trimix? I don't get it.

In any case, are you trying to lighten your total gear weight, or just remove weight from the weight belt? If the latter, why not just add an 11# v-weight to the doubles (or are you already using one)? AL80s are fine for dives up to about 30 minutes in the 150-160 range. If you're not going to be adding He, you probably won't be going deeper, in which case, you probably don't need more gas (assuming one dive per set of doubles).

If you go to the steels, you'll be able to knock of about 12#. Doesn't really matter if they're LP85s, HP100s, or even HP130s. Most of the newer exemption (3442) cylinders all have the same basic -2# negative buoyancy.

I'd highly suggest trying any sets before you purchase, to make sure you're comfortable in them.

I have AL80s, LP85s, and HP130s. I like the 85s best.

Trimix is pretty expensive, for the training, gear, and the gas after you have the training and the gear. It is not easy to find a reason to dive below 160 or so feet around here.

I do want to lighten my gear total gear weight as much as I want to lose the belt. It is a good hike up a nasty hill at the end of the dives at the local Quarry. I am also doing DM training and plan to DM for a cavern instructor here. I would like to add gas because he likes to have someone inside the cavern all the time when he is doing cavern training. It is about 40-50 feet deep, but can be a long dive due to several buddy pairs to check out. This is why I have a pee valve on my drysuit.

So, it looks like HP tanks are lighter than LP, are less buoyant than AL tanks, and there has been trouble getting LP overfills around here. I am leaning toward HP for these reasons.

I will not be doing cave, unless the wife gets sick of me and divorces me for other reasons. She says cave diving comes with a divorce. But cave diving around here would be a GREAT reason to do trimix. But...

So, those are the reasons that I am looking at steel.

Rainer
07-02-2008, 07:25
Sorry, tech diving is pretty expensive. It's nice to at least remember the dives. In any case, 120-160' is all better on mix. What depths are you actually trying to get to?

If you don't have enough money for He, are you sure tech diving is right for you? Not trying to be a dick, but the hobby isn't cheap.

How long are your current dives? Do you know how much gas you'll need? 150cf at 50' would last a pretty long time. I'd hit NDLs before min gas (even diving 32%).

Going to steels will likely save you about 12#. Again, if you just want to get the weight off your belt, and save a ton of money, get a v-weight.

Edit: Maybe I just don't get what a "Tech Deep" class involves...

mitsuguy
07-02-2008, 08:05
if you are just trying to lighten your load, the PST steel HP 80's are about 1lb lighter than an AL 80, but about 4-6 lbs more negative in the water...

character157
07-02-2008, 08:07
Want to dump some weight....take a look at that. HaHa.

BEUCHAT 140 STEEL LARGE CAVE/TEC DIVE TANK 3000 PSI - eBay (item 310062485663 end time Jul-03-08 18:09:04 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=310062485663&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=021)


Heiser 140 3190 140 8.03 29.9 63 -18.04 -28.4
It looks like the tank would be -28 to start and then -18 empty....if you could carry it to the water(63lbs dry weight without valve.)

navyhmc
07-02-2008, 08:13
Want to dump some weight....take a look at that. HaHa.

BEUCHAT 140 STEEL LARGE CAVE/TEC DIVE TANK 3000 PSI - eBay (item 310062485663 end time Jul-03-08 18:09:04 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=310062485663&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=021)


Heiser 140 3190 140 8.03 29.9 63 -18.04 -28.4
It looks like the tank would be -28 to start and then -18 empty....if you could carry it to the water(63lbs dry weight without valve.)

That might work, but there only selling one of them...:smiley20:

DivingCRNA
07-02-2008, 12:05
Sorry, tech diving is pretty expensive. It's nice to at least remember the dives. In any case, 120-160' is all better on mix. What depths are you actually trying to get to?

If you don't have enough money for He, are you sure tech diving is right for you? Not trying to be a dick, but the hobby isn't cheap.

How long are your current dives? Do you know how much gas you'll need? 150cf at 50' would last a pretty long time. I'd hit NDLs before min gas (even diving 32%).

Going to steels will likely save you about 12#. Again, if you just want to get the weight off your belt, and save a ton of money, get a v-weight.

Edit: Maybe I just don't get what a "Tech Deep" class involves...

DSAT Tec Deep Diver Course Details (http://www.padi.com/padi/en/kd/tecrec/tecdeep.aspx)

I want the weight off my gear, not just the belt. IT IS A LONG HILL TO CLIMB OUT OF THE DIVE SITE.

I can afford trimix, but am not quite sure there is much worth diving it for around here.

DivingCRNA
07-02-2008, 12:06
Want to dump some weight....take a look at that. HaHa.

BEUCHAT 140 STEEL LARGE CAVE/TEC DIVE TANK 3000 PSI - eBay (item 310062485663 end time Jul-03-08 18:09:04 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=310062485663&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=021)


Heiser 140 3190 140 8.03 29.9 63 -18.04 -28.4
It looks like the tank would be -28 to start and then -18 empty....if you could carry it to the water(63lbs dry weight without valve.)

That might work, but there only selling one of them...:smiley20:

I am surprised that you do not buy it! It would go well with your 120!

MSilvia
07-02-2008, 12:14
DSAT Tec Deep Diver Course Details (http://www.padi.com/padi/en/kd/tecrec/tecdeep.aspx)
I'd encourage you to look at other options, such as TDI and IANTD advanced nitrox/deco classes. From the description you linked to, it sounds pretty half-assed to me. Will they at least be training you to use mixes >EAN40 for deco? If not, IMHO it's a waste of your time and money.

Either way, I dive HP100 doubles, and I'm pretty happy with them.

BTW, if you want to exceed recreational limits, it's a good idea to be clear-headed enough to stick to your dive plan. Trimix helps a lot with that.

DivingCRNA
07-02-2008, 12:43
DSAT Tec Deep Diver Course Details (http://www.padi.com/padi/en/kd/tecrec/tecdeep.aspx)
I'd encourage you to look at other options, such as TDI and IANTD advanced nitrox/deco classes. From the description you linked to, it sounds pretty half-assed to me. Will they at least be training you to use mixes >EAN40 for deco? If not, IMHO it's a waste of your time and money.


I have the 300 page manual for this course. I have not read it yet, but just looked up the deco gasses it teaches. It goes up to 100% O2. It is the required course before trimix.

But enough with PADI bashing and defending. The problems I want to solve with steel vs aluminum doubles really do not involve the tec class.

Rainer
07-02-2008, 13:18
It kind of does. At least for the size of the doubles you want. In any case, I'll leave out comments about a class taking new tech students to 165 on basically air, with two deco bottles... In any case, sounds like LP85s or HP100s would probably cover you well, and let you shed 12lbs.

MSilvia
07-02-2008, 14:37
It goes up to 100% O2.
That's good to hear. It's too bad they don't have more information about what the class actually teaches you to do on the website.

But enough with PADI bashing and defending. Sorry... I didn't realize I was bashing PADI. That's not my intent. After all, eight of my certifications came from them. I don't have any problem with them, but there are things other agencies arguably are better positioned to teach.

I was just suggesting that you shop around so as to get training that'll let you get the most out of the doubles you're looking at.

cummings66
07-02-2008, 16:47
I like my double HP100's, old style 3500 psi cylinders which are closer to neutral and physically lighter than the newer 3442 cylinders you get today. They're a bit heavier physically then the AL80's but not much more. Not enough that I'd notice it.

The hill at Oronogo is a real dog with heavy cylinders especially at the end of a long or multiple dives. I dreaded walking up that hill after a full day of diving. Of course I see many divers using a dolly there. Perhaps that's another way for you to do it.

in_cavediver
07-02-2008, 16:52
We have AL 80's, LP85's and LP104's. I've dove HP100's (3500 and 3442) and the HP130's and pretty much the nicest tanks in a drysuit are the 85's. 100's are almost indistinguishable other than a manifold difference. In a wetsuit, the AL80's are hard to beat. Of course, for raw gas - the 104's (pumped of course)/130's or bigger is the ticket.

If you aren't doing Cave - 85's/100's would be a fine choice. If you are in a wetsuit, the 80's with a V weight is great as well.

navyhmc
07-02-2008, 17:16
Want to dump some weight....take a look at that. HaHa.

BEUCHAT 140 STEEL LARGE CAVE/TEC DIVE TANK 3000 PSI - eBay (item 310062485663 end time Jul-03-08 18:09:04 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=310062485663&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=021)


Heiser 140 3190 140 8.03 29.9 63 -18.04 -28.4
It looks like the tank would be -28 to start and then -18 empty....if you could carry it to the water(63lbs dry weight without valve.)

That might work, but there only selling one of them...:smiley20:

I am surprised that you do not buy it! It would go well with your 120!

I thought about it, but I didn't want to ruin your chances of getting it. :smilie39::smilie39::smilie39: :D

DivingCRNA
07-02-2008, 20:04
I like my double HP100's, old style 3500 psi cylinders which are closer to neutral and physically lighter than the newer 3442 cylinders you get today. They're a bit heavier physically then the AL80's but not much more. Not enough that I'd notice it.

The hill at Oronogo is a real dog with heavy cylinders especially at the end of a long or multiple dives. I dreaded walking up that hill after a full day of diving. Of course I see many divers using a dolly there. Perhaps that's another way for you to do it.

I use the dolly to get them in and out of the shop... I am conflicted in using it to get them up the hill because that means another trip down and up. It got a lot worse when I doubled my AL 80s, that is for sure...

CompuDude
07-03-2008, 01:07
Double 100s are great tanks, and if you're using double 80s right now, your overall rig will be lighter. If it's worth the money to you to accomplish that, I'd go for it.

Why is this still a discussion? Seems REALLY straightforward to me.