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Cichlid
08-09-2007, 23:25
If you were gonna buy an Al 80 tank, would you spend the extra for the neutrally buoyant one?

turtle_guy
08-09-2007, 23:47
it depends on if I could get steel for the same price

Dive-aholic
08-10-2007, 03:36
No, neutrally buoyant 80s don't really make that much of a difference on your weighting. You'll end up taking off a few lbs. You're better off getting a steel tank for just a little more than the neutrally bouyant tank.

Divingguy
08-10-2007, 07:23
Well I will have to go back and look at what I paid, but as I recall, the Neutral 80 was only slightly more than the normal 80, and was still WAY less than the Steel 100 or 120. Remember that the neutral 80 is authorized up to 3300 psi, and that Scubatoys will fill it to that, which also gives you more air than a normal 80. I have been VERY pleased with mine.

BSea
08-10-2007, 07:56
Well I will have to go back and look at what I paid, but as I recall, the Neutral 80 was only slightly more than the normal 80, and was still WAY less than the Steel 100 or 120. Remember that the neutral 80 is authorized up to 3300 psi, and that Scubatoys will fill it to that, which also gives you more air than a normal 80. I have been VERY pleased with mine.
While there are many places that will fill them to 3300 be aware that there are places that won't or can't. If you only get a 3000 fill, then you end up up with a 73 instead of an 80.

A better option in my opinion is a LP 85. If you get it filled to 3000 then you end up with 97 cubic feet of gas. While most places probably won't overfill as a rule, I've had it filled like that because they weren't paying attention. And LP tanks cost less than HP tanks.

mike_s
08-10-2007, 08:40
If you were gonna buy an Al 80 tank, would you spend the extra for the neutrally buoyant one?


take the extra money spent and get a steel tank instead. In the long run, you'll be glad you did.

medic001918
08-10-2007, 09:26
take the extra money spent and get a steel tank instead. In the long run, you'll be glad you did.

I agree. Steel tanks are generally the way to go if you dive a drysuit, or a thick wetsuit.

Shane

BSea
08-10-2007, 09:29
take the extra money spent and get a steel tank instead. In the long run, you'll be glad you did.

I agree. Steel tanks are generally the way to go if you dive a drysuit, or a thick wetsuit.

Shane
A steel 85 & my BP/W is perfect in the ocean with my shortie. I'm just slightly negative, and I need no other weight.

skdvr
08-10-2007, 09:37
For the same money or less you can get a worthington steel LP 77. 77cf is the same air volume as the al80's and you get it in a smaller package and the advantages of steel...

I have two al80's and when I need more tanks of that size they will be steel. They only steel tank that I have right now is a HP 130, which is a monster but I love it...

Phil

mwhities
08-10-2007, 09:39
A steel 85 & my BP/W is perfect in the ocean with my shortie. I'm just slightly negative, and I need no other weight.

What's the fill on your 85?

Michael

BSea
08-10-2007, 09:51
A steel 85 & my BP/W is perfect in the ocean with my shortie. I'm just slightly negative, and I need no other weight.

What's the fill on your 85?

Michael

2640 is the + rated pressure.

reservecops
08-10-2007, 10:58
If you were gonna buy an Al 80 tank, would you spend the extra for the neutrally buoyant one?
take the extra money spent and get a steel tank instead. In the long run, you'll be glad you did.You might want to bust out your calculator and do the math. Most new steel tanks are near, at, or more than twice the price of the neutrally buoyant AL80 sold here @ ST.

I believe that the intent of the question was to determine if the neutrally buoyant AL80 was worth the ~$20 difference between it an the standard AL80, not whether or not the poster should spend twice as much money buying a steel tank.

Back on topic: The standard AL80 here is about $135 + shipping after 10% discount, while the NB AL80 is about $158. It saves you 3 pounds of lead, so if you dive soft weights, that's about another $8 you have to spend if you buy the AL80, putting it at about $143 vs. $158. So is it worth the $15 difference? To each his own.

reservecops
08-10-2007, 11:04
Remember that the neutral 80 is authorized up to 3300 psi, and that Scubatoys will fill it to that, which also gives you more air than a normal 80. I have been VERY pleased with mine.I don't believe that this is true.

While the NB AL80 is the same size as the AL80 externally, it is slightly smaller internally. Remember, the walls are thicker. But since you can fill it to 3300 psi (due to the thicker walls), you have the equivalent of an AL80 -- IF it is filled to 3300 psi.

My Dad just bought two of these right here from ST within the past month, and I am 99% certain that he told me this is exacty what ST told him. Not sure if it was Larry, Joe, or someone else, but that's what he told me.

Dive-aholic
08-10-2007, 11:05
Well I will have to go back and look at what I paid, but as I recall, the Neutral 80 was only slightly more than the normal 80, and was still WAY less than the Steel 100 or 120. Remember that the neutral 80 is authorized up to 3300 psi, and that Scubatoys will fill it to that, which also gives you more air than a normal 80. I have been VERY pleased with mine.

Actually, an 80 is an 80. The cf of the tank is based on its rated pressure. So if the tank is only filled to 3000psi, then you don't have 80cf. You'll have slightly less than 73 cf. Probably even less since many shops can't even take the time to fill you to 3000.

An 85cf steel tank filled to 2400psi gives you 85cf. Fill it to its + rated pressure to get 93cf. Or do a cave fill on it and get over 120cf.

cummings66
08-10-2007, 12:30
Neutral 80 was only slightly more than the normal 80, and was still WAY less than the Steel 100 or 120. Remember that the neutral 80 is authorized up to 3300 psi

The neutral 80 does not give you way more than, it's pressure is the normal working pressure and not an overfill giving you much more air.

There is absolutely no benefit to the Neutral 80 other than cost. Find a posting from me in the forum where I detailed the weights of it and the Steel HP100s both empty and full. There is not one single advantage the Neutral 80 has, not one beyond cost.

If you can afford steel, get the HP100 and you'll have more air for the weight of the AL 80. Compared to the standard AL80 I wouldn't do it. I'd prefer to carry a few more lbs of lead and leave the money in my pocket.

reservecops
08-10-2007, 17:09
If you can afford steel, get the HP100 and you'll have more air for the weight of the AL 80. Compared to the standard AL80 I wouldn't do it. I'd prefer to carry a few more lbs of lead and leave the money in my pocket.As I detailed above, the difference in cost between an AL80 and a NB AL80 is no more than 15 bucks, after all is said and done.

To some, it might be worth $15 bucks to not have to jam an extra 3 pounds of weight on a belt/in their BCD. To others, no.

I'm sure few would be buying or using AL tanks if money were not part of the equation.

cummings66
08-10-2007, 18:06
I'm not talking only price. I would not choose this tank for other reasons. First I dive only HP tanks unless you count stage bottles. I know what kind of fills I find in my neck of the woods. Outside of my LDS and one diveshop down south you won't get a full fill on this tank. Why would I choose to spend more money on an AL80 tank that not every dive shop will give me a full fill on? If you get a standard AL80 you'll have full fills most of the time, if you get this one you'll often run into short fills. The choice is simple, it's more than money.

mike_s
08-10-2007, 18:28
If you were gonna buy an Al 80 tank, would you spend the extra for the neutrally buoyant one?
take the extra money spent and get a steel tank instead. In the long run, you'll be glad you did.You might want to bust out your calculator and do the math. Most new steel tanks are near, at, or more than twice the price of the neutrally buoyant AL80 sold here @ ST.

I believe that the intent of the question was to determine if the neutrally buoyant AL80 was worth the ~$20 difference between it an the standard AL80, not whether or not the poster should spend twice as much money buying a steel tank.

Back on topic: The standard AL80 here is about $135 + shipping after 10% discount, while the NB AL80 is about $158. It saves you 3 pounds of lead, so if you dive soft weights, that's about another $8 you have to spend if you buy the AL80, putting it at about $143 vs. $158. So is it worth the $15 difference? To each his own.


You can get a LP77 for about $199 or less and a HP100 for $249 right now.

For the cost difference of your price of $158 for a Neutral AL80, I'd gladly pay the difference and get a LP77. I think it's worth it for the slight increase.

Now, granted that the HP100 is a little more, but it's a bigger better tank also. So it's warranted.


For those who don't want to spend the money, like you said, to each their own.

Splitlip
08-10-2007, 23:23
I would not bother with "neutral" 80. As others have said, might as well go steel. Better buoyancy characteristics and easier to trim out.
Keeps your eyes open. You can pick up new Faber FX 80's for $199.00 each. They are actually 80 cf and lighter.

mwhities
08-11-2007, 01:41
A steel 85 & my BP/W is perfect in the ocean with my shortie. I'm just slightly negative, and I need no other weight.

What's the fill on your 85?

Michael

2640 is the + rated pressure.

I mean is that a true 85cf or more or less?

Michael

ReefHound
08-11-2007, 05:42
I made a long post yesterday and then lost it so here's the brief version. I have a N80 and would not buy one again. I didn't know it was only 73cf at 3000 psi, makes me feel better about my air consumption.

As has been said, you'll usually get a 30000 fill unless you remind them and watch over them, which gets annoying. Fill operators just see an AL80 and assume it's like all the others.

The N80 seems to screw with my trim, not sure why but I trim out easier with a standard S80. Another thing is if you rent tanks or go on vacations, they will have the S80's so if you're gonna have aluminum you might as well get used to what you'll be seeing elsewhere.

I'm looking for some LP 85's now, will probably get a few std 80's for now and as future stage bottles.

Splitlip
08-11-2007, 08:27
Great points. (My comments are in bold below)


I made a long post yesterday and then lost it so here's the brief version. I have a N80 and would not buy one again. I didn't know it was only 73cf at 3000 psi, makes me feel better about my air consumption.
The extra material which makes them more negative takes up volume.

As has been said, you'll usually get a 30000 fill unless you remind them and watch over them, which gets annoying. Fill operators just see an AL80 and assume it's like all the others.
I had to put 3300 PSI in big black printing around the neck. I still got 3000 unless I stood there.

The N80 seems to screw with my trim, not sure why but I trim out easier with a standard S80. Another thing is if you rent tanks or go on vacations, they will have the S80's so if you're gonna have aluminum you might as well get used to what you'll be seeing elsewhere.
The extra material used make them more negative makes them bottom heavy.

I'm looking for some LP 85's now, will probably get a few std 80's for now and as future stage bottles.
If they screw up and put 3000 in one of these, you end up with 96 CF :smiley2:

BSea
08-12-2007, 10:19
A steel 85 & my BP/W is perfect in the ocean with my shortie. I'm just slightly negative, and I need no other weight.

What's the fill on your 85?

Michael

2640 is the + rated pressure.

I mean is that a true 85cf or more or less?

Michael
It's supposed to be a true 85 at 2640. At least I haven't found any evidence to the contrary. From what I've read, steel tanks are pretty accurate in their fill capacities. Some aluminum tanks like the AL80's have been overly exagerated. I don't know why that is other than marketing. But I still don't have any hard evidence on my specific tanks. They are the new worthington galvanized lp 85's that are 7.25" in diameter.

This might help (http://www.techdivinglimited.com/pub/tanks.html), but it doesn't have my tank listed.

skdvr
08-12-2007, 14:03
This link is to XS scuba tanks that are made by worthington. http://www.xsscuba.com/tank_steel_specs.html It shows the LP 85 at 2640 to actually 82.9cf.

Phil

BSea
08-12-2007, 19:29
This link is to XS scuba tanks that are made by worthington. http://www.xsscuba.com/tank_steel_specs.html It shows the LP 85 at 2640 to actually 82.9cf.

Phil
Thanks Phil. Thats the model I have. I wonder why they don't put the actual capacity as an 83 vrs an 85. Plus the 95 is actually a 93. I unserstand the lp 121 not being called a 120. That would keep it from being confused with the HP 120 (which is actually closer to a 121 than the lp 121).

The more I look at the specs, the less sense it makes.

Dive-aholic
08-13-2007, 13:20
An AL80 only holds 77cf. 80, 85, and 95 just sound better than 77, 83, and 92. I'm actually surprised we have 104s, 108s, 119s, 133s.

Hollywood703
08-22-2007, 10:38
I own each, and they both have their own advantages. I prefer Steel personally as if taken care of they will last forever (if taken care of). I have some 1950's steel tanks still in use. I know that aluminum tanks from certain years where not aluminum, but a mixture of aluminum and other metal.....and now all those tanks are not able to be filled....My wife prefers an AL80 as when we travel that is what she will get, so she uses those to not have to figure out weight differentials. I personally us an x8-119....and wouldnt trade it for ANY aluminum tanks including doubles. If you have the means buy the steel....you will be happy with it from years to come.