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SlvrDragon50
07-23-2008, 12:31
Why are canisters so popular? I find that holding the whole assembly in hand is much simpler... Less to get tangled in as well.

skdvr
07-23-2008, 14:36
Power, Power and more Power....

Phil

MSilvia
07-23-2008, 14:40
Long story short, you get MUCH more light out of a good can light than you would out of almost any handheld. That light can also be focused into a tight beam that can be used to stay in contact with buddies even when the sun is shining brightly.

Just in terms of intensity though, comparing a typical hand-held light in the <$200 range to a HID can light in the >$900 range is like comparing an oil lamp to a car headlight.

SlvrDragon50
07-23-2008, 14:41
The DR 500 lumen light has a canister and handheld model

I would imagine both are 500 lumens.

CompuDude
07-23-2008, 14:44
Why are canisters so popular? I find that holding the whole assembly in hand is much simpler... Less to get tangled in as well.

Have you ever tried one? There's a reason they're so popular.

Do I wish there was no cord connecting the light head to the can? Of course.

But with today's technology, there's no better way to carry a LOT of light on the back of your hand, allowing you to work in a mostly hands-free fashion (as opposed to having to hold a big light in your hand, let go, pick up, let go, pick up, as needed) for an extended period of time (since the battery pack, mounted to your harness, can be a lot larger than it could be on the back of your hand).

There are big honking floodlights out there that put out a similar amount of light as an HID can light (such as the 10w HID UK light cannon or the 24w BrightStar), but both of those lights are heavy, bulky, and require you to have something in your hands at all times when you're using it. They're just no comparison to a small(ish) light head on the back of your hand, which is out of the way and allows almost normal use of your hands, for the entire dive.

I used to use light cannons, and they were nice, but there is no comparison to the better focus of the can lights (for signaling) and, for my photography, not having to hold a camera handle and a light handle in the same hand is a godsend.

MSilvia
07-23-2008, 14:47
I would imagine both are 500 lumens.
Sure. But that's not so much a can light as a flashlight that had the battery compartment seperated so the light could be mounted hands-free on a goodman handle.

A "real" can with an HID head gives you enough juice to run a light bright enough to light up a cave with no natural light to this intensity for 4 hours or so. The DR LED500 is not representative of this kind of light... it just has a similar form factor.
http://www.discoverydiving.com/images/photos/charlienelson/1004-319%20Calimba.JPG

CompuDude
07-23-2008, 15:28
Now Matt, that's not a very fair photo considering there are clearly multiple light sources at work.

(although you know I agree with you in principle... and it's a beautiful photo!)

MSilvia
07-23-2008, 15:48
Now Matt, that's not a very fair photo considering there are clearly multiple light sources at work.
Sure... but the bright spot is almost certainly a HID can light.

CompuDude
07-23-2008, 16:05
Now Matt, that's not a very fair photo considering there are clearly multiple light sources at work.
Sure... but the bright spot is almost certainly a HID can light.

The one in the background? I'd say it's more likely a slave strobe. That's the common way to light up more of the cave for those types of shots.

I unfortunately can't find a good shot that I've taken that really shows what a can light can do. And even if I could, it's not going to be the same as diving with someone who has one.

BSea
07-23-2008, 16:43
Why are canisters so popular? I find that holding the whole assembly in hand is much simpler... Less to get tangled in as well.Part of the reason they are so popular is in your post. It's as close to hands free as you can get. Most can lights have the light head in a handle that fits on your hand and allows you to use that had while holding something else. For recreational diving, you might think "So What". But for cave diving & wreck diving where you are using reels or some other tool, it comes in handy. But there is good news for those that don't need/want a can light. There are several current models, and many new models that have the best of both worlds for recreational diving. The new Oxycheq Raider line of lights will soon have a soft handle called a sock that will allow their lights to be mounted on the back of the hand. As stated earlier, dive rite has a powerful handheld. And there is always the light cannon for a traditional light with lost of power.

SlvrDragon50
07-23-2008, 16:59
So essentially this is only to get the light in a smaller housing and so you can have a free hand?

It just seems a bit ridiculous price wise since the wiring cost no more than 50 dollars probably yet they charge so much more for a can light.

BSea
07-23-2008, 17:06
So essentially this is only to get the light in a smaller housing and so you can have a free hand?

It just seems a bit ridiculous price wise since the wiring cost no more than 50 dollars probably yet they charge so much more for a can light.Well, it's more than just some wire. Most Can lights are HID. The bulbs by themselves start at about $100. The battery compartment is usually delrin, and it isn't cheap, but it's light & very strong. Much stronger than traditional plastic used for most lower end lights. And the batteries are large rechargable batteries, not just a bunch of D batteries. Theres more to them than just a battery, chord & light. And as with most things in life, you get what you pay for.

SlvrDragon50
07-23-2008, 17:10
Bah.. batteries are cheap!

Delrin shouldn't be that expensive, then again, I have never seen a canister other than ST pics so I don't know how big it would be..

So would you just d-ring the battery compartment and then put the light on the wrist?

BSea
07-23-2008, 17:17
Bah.. batteries are cheap!

Delrin shouldn't be that expensive, then again, I have never seen a canister other than ST pics so I don't know how big it would be..

So would you just d-ring the battery compartment and then put the light on the wrist?

Maybe you ought to look here (http://www.salvosupply.com/light_parts).

SlvrDragon50
07-23-2008, 17:29
But thats the company that sells them..

I dont think manufacturing costs are the same.

CompuDude
07-23-2008, 17:30
Bah.. batteries are cheap!

Delrin shouldn't be that expensive, then again, I have never seen a canister other than ST pics so I don't know how big it would be..

So would you just d-ring the battery compartment and then put the light on the wrist?

Economies of scale apply. These are small companies producing these things by hand in small fabs, not conglomerates ordering 10,000 units from a factory in China.

As was mentioned, an HID bulb alone costs well over $100. The battery packs have to be hand-assembled into packs, and replacements cost a couple hundred as well. Then there is all the hand labor (done here in the US, generally) to put it all together.

I'll repeat my earlier advice: Don't knock it until you've tried it. You really have no idea what it's all about when you're just reacting to picture and prices on a web page.

skdvr
07-23-2008, 18:26
Trust me I do not dive with a can light but wish I did...

I have a $100 Princeton Tec LED that I really like, and I never saw a reason to spend the money on a can light until I had the pleasure (or misfortune) of using a 21w can light for a weekend. DAMN that was nice. As they have said it was so nice to not have to hold onto anything first of all, then the amount of light that it was pushing through the nasty midwest water was extremely impressive. I have been trying to put away some extra cash to purchase one sometime soon. I almost bought a 10w a few weeks ago, but I think I would rather just spend a little extra now and get a 21w, because I know myself and if I buy the 10w I will still want the 21w very soon after. With twins on the way, my AC in my house going out, and having to buy a new computer it put my $1k flashlight on hold for a little while. If you have a chance to try one you really should give it a shot. Although you may not want to because after you do nothing else will be the same...

Phil

SlvrDragon50
07-23-2008, 18:34
Well, I can't justify spending 1k on a light..

I already had enough trouble spending 100 on a Streamlight TL-3... Imagine getting a good can light with that kind of spending..

I suppose I'll probably get a 10w and hopefully will never have to see what a 21w can do..

CompuDude
07-23-2008, 19:02
Well, I can't justify spending 1k on a light..

I already had enough trouble spending 100 on a Streamlight TL-3... Imagine getting a good can light with that kind of spending..

I suppose I'll probably get a 10w and hopefully will never have to see what a 21w can do..

Lots of people are perfectly satisfied with a 10w can light. For many situations, it's all you need... and the 10w light head is a LOT smaller and fun to work with than the 21w light head.

They turn up used fairly regularly for ~$350. No need to spend $1k for one until you actually have a NEED for a $1k light. (Or can no longer stand the lust!)

Believe me, I was in the exact same place as you a few years ago. "$1k for a flashlight? Are you kidding me?"

Fast forward to today, and I have a 21w can light... and a 10w spare can light. ;)

Just give it time. Get the rest of your kit together, and work on your diving at this stage. You don't NEED a can light at this point in your diving. Perhaps you can consider a gift to yourself... in celebration of your 100th dive. :)

SlvrDragon50
07-23-2008, 19:09
Heh, another 94 dives to go... 93 if you wanna count the NAUI snorkel :P

In addition... HAPPY 250 POSTS TO ME!!! :)

Now I have to decide I'm gonna buy something worthy like a wetsuit or regs or upgrade my fins :)

cummings66
07-23-2008, 20:19
Once you've had a bright can light you won't really want to go back to anything less. It's habit forming.

OH-JJ
07-23-2008, 22:03
Heh, another 94 dives to go... 93 if you wanna count the NAUI snorkel :P

In addition... HAPPY 250 POSTS TO ME!!! :)

Now I have to decide I'm gonna buy something worthy like a wetsuit or regs or upgrade my fins :)


Well most has already been said. my back up lights are the Intova and the OxyCheq raider 1r2. of the two the OxyCheq is better and my first light I grab as a backup or when I don't have my can light, ( or forgot to plug the battery in,) the Intova hangs on my harness because it is almost as good and the CR123 batteries will hold a charge for many years if I forget to change them. The Raider has a better beam, and only needs 3 AA batteries. plus the slightly thicker body feels good in the hand.

All of that said, my Primary light, when I need a light, including night dives, is my DR 10W wreck canister. I am currently satisfied with it. Cannot say I love it as my buddy has a 21W Salvo..... Damn him....

Right now I would say save your money. get a Raider 1 for now. and start watching ebay. If you see a 10W can light for say $200-275 with charger, get it. consider it an investment until you are far enough along to need something brighter.

Truthfully do not waste your money on the pistol grip lights. they are not worth it compared to the Raider, and I do have a UK 8D. Now then the UK HID Light cannon, is nice, but at that price point just save your money for a few more weeks and get a can light.

OH-JJ
07-23-2008, 22:07
Heh, another 94 dives to go... 93 if you wanna count the NAUI snorkel :P



Oh and don't crack on the NAUI snorkel dive. My OW was Naui many moons ago, but my AOW on through DM was PADI.... I still am glad that Naui taught the Snorkeling portion. and I still occasionally free dive on shallow sights to check them out.

CompuDude
07-24-2008, 13:32
Heh, another 94 dives to go... 93 if you wanna count the NAUI snorkel :P



Oh and don't crack on the NAUI snorkel dive. My OW was Naui many moons ago, but my AOW on through DM was PADI.... I still am glad that Naui taught the Snorkeling portion. and I still occasionally free dive on shallow sights to check them out.

The NAUI snorkel dive is great. I wish it was mandatory at other agencies, too.

It's not a "dive", though, and shouldn't be counted as one.

skdvr
07-29-2008, 06:01
This pic is not the best in the world but it shows how bright the beam of a 21w Can Light is even when there is a still a good amount of ambient light. My Princeton TEC LED light was completely ineffective except for looking under things or into small holes in the wreck.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll34/pebalsamo/Lake%20Michigan/IMG_0120.jpg

Phil

CompuDude
07-31-2008, 12:40
Cheap 10w can light going on TDS right now, for someone on the market. Sartek makes pretty good lights, from what I've heard.

Sartek 10 watt cannister light (http://www.thedecostop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32216)