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View Full Version : Al80, HP80, or other?



Cheetah223
08-02-2008, 15:48
I'm diving a 30# bp/w with singles, and have yet to buy my own tank/s...From looking at buoyancy characteristics as well as dry weight, an HP steel 80 seems better than an al80 in every way, shape and form. Would anyone suggest against using an HP80, or suggest another volume tank for pretty typical openwater shore dives? I'm not doing anything technical yet, but it may come down the line.

cmburch
08-02-2008, 16:02
I like an HP100 for shore dives where hiking or a good walk is involved.

The HP100 is similar in size and weight to an Al80.

HP100 99cf, 24" high, 33lb empty, -2.5lb buoyancy empty.

Al80 77cf, 26" high, 32lb empty, +1.5lb buoyancy empty.

And can remove about 4lb from belt due to buoyancy empty compared to Al80.

mitsuguy
08-02-2008, 17:15
I agree... I mostly dive HP steel 80's because I can rent them from the LDS... however, if I was going to buy, I would be getting steel 100's...

if you don't want/need the extra air though, the only downside to steel tanks is price (compared to AL tanks)

cummings66
08-02-2008, 18:37
I'd say a steel cylinder of any size is a good thing, the HP80 really depends on whether or not you can get good fills all the time. If you can it's a good deal but I still prefer my HP100's.

Cheetah223
08-02-2008, 20:59
Anyone have a link handy that I can compare the buoyancy and dry weight characteristics of HP80's and HP100's? I haven't heard much about HP80's, that's why I asked specifically, and consensus seems to suggest 100's...

cmburch
08-02-2008, 21:06
Anyone have a link handy that I can compare the buoyancy and dry weight characteristics of HP80's and HP100's? I haven't heard much about HP80's, that's why I asked specifically, and consensus seems to suggest 100's...


Google XSSCUBA then check tank specifications. There are other better links by google SCUBA Tank Specification.

ScaredSilly
08-02-2008, 21:17
If you find diving an AL80 to be fine then I would also vote for HP100 over a HP 80. They are short cylinders.

Splitlip
08-02-2008, 21:38
Anyone have a link handy that I can compare the buoyancy and dry weight characteristics of HP80's and HP100's? I haven't heard much about HP80's, that's why I asked specifically, and consensus seems to suggest 100's...
TECHDIVINGLIMITED.COM (http://www.techdivinglimited.com/)

Click on link for cylinders then click link for cylinder specifications

Cheetah223
08-02-2008, 21:59
Thanks for the replies, looks like I'm leaning more toward HP100's now, as well. Now the next issue: how do you make your partner's Al80 last long enough to make the upgrade worth it? haha

FishFood
08-02-2008, 22:19
Be warned. If you have a larger tank than your dive buddy, you instantly become the official dive flag holder (where applicable) !!! :smilie39:

Cheetah223
08-02-2008, 22:40
I'm more prepping for the future, if I decide to get into tech diving. Right now on an Al80, when most people I'll dive with will come up around 6-700psi I'll come up a little over 1000..So getting a bigger tank may just be shooting myself in the foot in any aspect that could land me doing more work :P I'll need to pay attention to my NDLs more, as well...

Grin
08-03-2008, 08:26
If 80 cf works good for you a steel LP 85 might be a sweet settup. They are about the same size as a HP100 and alot cheaper. i have a pair of LP85s that I really like. I also have a pair of HP 120s and the bouyancy is virtually the same as the LP85s. Lp85s have 85 Cf at only 2600 psi.

To take the LP85 discussion off base a little. Many shops will fill the Lp tanks to 3000 psi or so, giving you around 95 CF. I get mine filed this way all the time. Usually without even asking. With the Lp85 you will always easily get 85 CF/2600psi from any shop on the planet, without having to check. With the Hp tanks, you should check the pressure when you pick them up virtually no matter where you get them filled. They need around 3600 to have the rated CF. Many instances will show 3400 or so. Possibly even getting only 3000psi by mistake or ??? Also, with HP tanks, you might get off on the "should I go DIN" now that your using higher pressures on your first stage.

The tanks I would look at are AL 80($120) vs LP 85($235?) vs HP100($325?). Those tanks are all about the same size and diameter. Steel bouyancy is superior to the AL 80. Your fill shop might make the Lp or Hp tank a better option for you. And Price is always a factor.

Heres Worthingtons spec sheets

http://www.xsscuba.com/tank_steel_specs.html


Notice the LP85 is the same diameter of a AL 80 or HP100, and the next LP tank size larger (the LP95) is the larger diameter. Notice both the Hp 100 and Lp85 are basically the exact same size and weight. Notice how small the Hp80 is. And also, If I'm not mistaken, Hp80s are very reasonable on price compared to Hp100s.
Just a bunch of stuff to contemplate for your purchase.

mitsuguy
08-03-2008, 08:43
With the Hp tanks, you should check the pressure when you pick them up virtually no matter where you get them filled. They need around 3600 to have the rated CF. Many instances will show 3400 or so. Possibly even getting only 3000psi by mistake or ???

rated volume is at 3442 psi...

Cheetah223
08-03-2008, 09:44
Price is definitely going to be a factor, but I plan on renting for at least a little longer before I'll be getting my own tanks anyway. There's no way for me to haul steel tanks from here to the coast in my car, and my buddy 'forgot' to check his oil and threw a rod in his truck a couple weeks ago :P

For the extra volume, the 100s look good, but at the same time, it will definitely be a painful swipe at my wallet..It will be thought about for many hours on end before I come to a final decision, I'm sure...Unless I happen to find someone who's just disgusted with diving and is determined to get rid of tanks for pocket change :D

mitsuguy
08-03-2008, 09:58
There's no way for me to haul steel tanks from here to the coast in my car,


Ah come on man!

I have a little Lexus SC sports car and I regularly take 2 steel tanks, my pony and all of my gear, and could easily carry a second person and gear if I pull the sub out of the trunk...

Unless you have a Miata, RX-7 or a S2000, you've got room :)

Cheetah223
08-03-2008, 10:03
There's plenty of room, but I've gotta get it into a dealership to have it looked at as a whole, something rubs every time I roll about 10 feet in a new direction (from drive to reverse or vice versa) and loading gear in the trunk agitates the car enough to get the same rubbing sound out of it every so often just cruising. Plus, with two people and our gear in it, there's about 3/4" clearance between the tires and the wheel wells in the back.

Maybe the bigger rims and not-so-upgraded-since-1984 BMW suspension aren't a good combination for a heavy load..

mitsuguy
08-03-2008, 10:15
There's plenty of room, but I've gotta get it into a dealership to have it looked at as a whole, something rubs every time I roll about 10 feet in a new direction (from drive to reverse or vice versa) and loading gear in the trunk agitates the car enough to get the same rubbing sound out of it every so often just cruising. Plus, with two people and our gear in it, there's about 3/4" clearance between the tires and the wheel wells in the back.

Maybe the bigger rims and not-so-upgraded-since-1984 BMW suspension aren't a good combination for a heavy load..

suspension bushings more than likely... that coupled with some weak springs prolly doesn't help.... the outside edge of the tires on my car are within 5mm of the fender (without people or equipment), but it doesn't rub - the suspension comes up inside the fender... if you are getting rubbing, find out where - there are lots of things you can do to avoid it if needed...

Cheetah223
08-03-2008, 17:00
The bushings were replaced about a month before I bought the car, I'm thinking it's just soft shocks. There are aftermarket shocks on the rear (Bilsteins) which sound all good and pretty, but I'm thinking it may be my kryptonite. I can't zero in on the rubbing on my own, suspension and brakes are the two areas I don't know jack about, but even after taking off all four tires and looking around, spinning the axles by hand I can't find anything suspicious. I'm gonna take it to a dealership and just see what they can find as a whole.

CompuDude
08-04-2008, 19:35
Price is definitely going to be a factor, but I plan on renting for at least a little longer before I'll be getting my own tanks anyway. There's no way for me to haul steel tanks from here to the coast in my car, and my buddy 'forgot' to check his oil and threw a rod in his truck a couple weeks ago :P

For the extra volume, the 100s look good, but at the same time, it will definitely be a painful swipe at my wallet..It will be thought about for many hours on end before I come to a final decision, I'm sure...Unless I happen to find someone who's just disgusted with diving and is determined to get rid of tanks for pocket change :D

Used steel tanks are the definitely the way to go, from a value standpoint. They hold their value much better than Aluminum, as long as you take care of them. Find a good steel tank and it will likely outlast your diving career.

Cheetah223
08-04-2008, 21:15
I'll have to start hunting hard for some tanks...See if I can't turn up an orphaned one somewhere for a few dollars less than normal..

Cheetah223
08-06-2008, 21:35
Now throwing in yet another option...Knowing an Al80 suits me well for my 'typical' dive...How would you rate an LP85? LP steel tanks seem kind of counterproductive to me vs. aluminum..Obviously buoyancy will be a little bit less of a swing, but other than that how does everyone feel about AL85s?

BSea
08-06-2008, 21:47
Now throwing in yet another option...Knowing an Al80 suits me well for my 'typical' dive...How would you rate an LP85? LP steel tanks seem kind of counterproductive to me vs. aluminum..Obviously buoyancy will be a little bit less of a swing, but other than that how does everyone feel about AL85s? I love LP 85's. You never have to worry about a short fill, and many times you'll get 3000 (guy filling them doesn't notice they are LP & fills them like an AL 80) in them which makes them almost a 100. But even when filled to the correct pressure, you get more air than an 80, and you can take some lead off your belt with the steel. I love my 85's.

brandon
08-06-2008, 22:54
I'll second the votes for the HP100... great replacement for Alum 80s!

I've seen used ones for sale occasionally...

-B

RoyN
08-07-2008, 01:13
HP100 or LP95. Either one works except the LP95 is 8 inch diameter while the HP100 is 7.25.

BORG
08-07-2008, 07:47
I love my 95LP. I can get fills at my LDS from 3000-3500PSI. It's shorter but fatter than the AL 80, much better dive characteristics as far taking the lead out of your system. And you get alot more gas to use in the bargain.

Cheetah223
08-07-2008, 08:30
I ask specifically about LP85's because the LDS is having a sale next weekend and selling them cheap enough for me to afford one. I'll look at HP100s and see if they've got a sale going on any other tanks, but the LP85's are the biggest steel tanks I see advertised..

cmburch
08-07-2008, 09:48
When I rented tanks that is what we used, LP85's. They are a good tank especially for the right price. I started with AL80's for my wife and I because they were on sale and that was all I could afford when I was in school. 5 years later I got an HP100.

The LP85 is listed at 80CF and about 1lb heavier than the HP100. So it is very similar to the Al80 in size with the added plus of being able to remove about 3-4lb from belt compared to Al80.

It would be hard to justify a HP100 when on a budget if the LP85 was $75 less.

CompuDude
08-07-2008, 13:19
I ask specifically about LP85's because the LDS is having a sale next weekend and selling them cheap enough for me to afford one. I'll look at HP100s and see if they've got a sale going on any other tanks, but the LP85's are the biggest steel tanks I see advertised..

LP85 are great, IF your local shop will overfill them. Otherwise I'd rather get the HP100s. Bear in mind the rockin' sale on the Faber hp100s from Divers Direct.

Splitlip
08-07-2008, 17:08
Now throwing in yet another option...Knowing an Al80 suits me well for my 'typical' dive...How would you rate an LP85? LP steel tanks seem kind of counterproductive to me vs. aluminum..Obviously buoyancy will be a little bit less of a swing, but other than that how does everyone feel about AL85s?

Actually there Is more "swing" with a LP85 than an Al 80. And the swing will increase depending on how much of an overfill you can get.

The bennies are more gas, less weight but also less buoyant than Aluminum. At the end of the dive, the tank will be near neutral instead of several pounds positive. That means less ballast that needs to be added to the kit.

You also might keep in mind, depending on exposure protection and your physique, this could mean little or no ditchible weight. (which to some of us is a good thing)

Splitlip
08-07-2008, 17:12
HP100 or LP95. Either one works except the LP95 is 8 inch diameter while the HP100 is 7.25.
The LP's are also a few pounds heavier than the HP's. One of the reasons I went from the LP 98's to the HP100's. That and the fact that one of the shops I use stopped pumping them up.

I was carrying 3 more pounds on my back (and 2 #s of lead on my belt) than if I had the HP's and carrying less gas.

My LP's are now in cave country.