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monant
08-04-2008, 15:41
I'm interested in the experiences of others who have used power heads. I'm looking for the good, the bad, types of heads, calibers, tips for use, etc.

Crimediver
08-05-2008, 07:50
What kind of spearfishing do you do?

I have had some from .38 to centerfire rifle PH. I currently carry a .223 for protection purposes.

The largest I have used was an Australian .303 that would really ring your bell when it was fired. The .223 is a very serious PH. I prefer the .223 as I can obtain that round in blank cartridges easily as it is used for training by military & police on a widescale basis. It is also a very devastating round and does considerably more damage than even a 12 ga. round.

I use fingernail polish on the tip and the primer.

Some divers hunt with them but I do not. I usually keep mine on my gun on a spare shaft that is clamped on to the stock. It is more like a power head bayonet. I could fire it but it would take a minute. Some experienced divers question how effective a powerhead would be as most shark attacks are ambush murders, so to speak and you may never see one in time to deploy it. I like having it just in case. I believe in the philosophy that it is better to have it and not need it than to wish I had one.

monant
08-05-2008, 08:44
I have been considering one only for protection. Since I began diving with my wife and son I have become more aware than before they learned to dive. We have seen sharks but I still donít believe we will ever be attacked. My view is like yours, it is better to have it and not need it than to wish I had one. I may have done some chest thumping when I was younger but my family deserves better and I have nothing to prove.

monant
08-19-2008, 11:20
Anyone Anyone

Splitlip
08-19-2008, 11:59
Where are you diving?

MSilvia
08-19-2008, 12:56
I have been considering one only for protection. My view is like yours, it is better to have it and not need it than to wish I had one.
Out of curiosity, what do you carry for protection from a land-based animal attack?

monant
08-19-2008, 13:37
I have been considering one only for protection. My view is like yours, it is better to have it and not need it than to wish I had one.
Out of curiosity, what do you carry for protection from a land-based animal attack?

I carry a .45 and I've only need it once. All the other times it was unnecessary weight. I also use a seatbelt and have never needed it but you will not see me or my children in a vehicle without wearing one.

MSilvia
08-19-2008, 13:54
What situation were you in that you had to use the .45? Do you live in mtn. lion or bear country or something? I only ask because, while I am a gun owner myself, I have the perhaps naive impression that a lot of people who carry for protection are quick to turn to the gun for resolution. Sort of a "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" thing.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that's you. I'm actually genuinely curious about your situation.

As for how this relates to powerheads for protection though, I personally believe that people carrying powerheads are more likely to invite problems with the sharks they're trying to protect themselves from, than are people who's best response to sharky aggression is to take defensive action. Frankly, I'd be more concerned about getting in the water with a diver carrying a powerhead than I would be about getting in the water with most kinds of shark. Unless you have a good reason to expect that your dives will put you in a dangerous situation with sharks, and you feel you need to do the dive despite that risk, I don't see where a powerhead is at all desireable. I think there are a number of "just in case" tools that have a much greater liklihood of being useful to a diver, and you can't bring everything.

Not that I'm saying you shouldn't have one... I'm just saying I wouldn't even consider it except under very unusual circumstances. Definately not as an everyday precaution.


I also use a seatbelt and have never needed it but you will not see me or my children in a vehicle without wearing one.
I wear a seatbelt too... not sure what that has to do with anything though.

monant
08-19-2008, 14:01
Where are you diving?

I dive in the Florida Gulf. What got me thinking of a power head/bank stick was an 11ft 844 pound mako caught here last year. Below is the actual fish. There are bulls here as well but everyone I know just pushes them away with a spear or gives up their speared fish. Iíve been in the water with sharks before, it's really not a big deal but since my wife and son began diving with me I reassessed my views and fully believe it's better to be prepared and effectively manage the risk.

http://www.emeraldcoast.com/news/images/1011.jpg

monant
08-19-2008, 14:07
I also use a seatbelt and have never needed it but you will not see me or my children in a vehicle without wearing one.
I wear a seatbelt too... not sure what that has to do with anything though. I'm curious what situation you were in that you had to use the .45 though. Do you live in mtn. lion or bear country or something?

Sorry, I thought I knew where you were going with your question. I apologize. There were several animals of the two legged variety.

MSilvia
08-19-2008, 14:24
There were several animals of the two legged variety.

Those are the ones I'm most concerned about too... both above and below the water's surface.
:smiley2:

What got me thinking of a power head/bank stick was an 11ft 844 pound mako caught here last year.
No offence, but I don't think you'd have a snowball's chance in hell of deploying a powerhead in time to stop a mako. They're built for speed, and hunt for fast fish in pelagic waters. A diver would be extremely unlikely to be anywhere a mako might be found unless they were there specificly to dive with makos or the fish they hunt, and even if one was there, it's highly unlikely you'd see it unless you lured it in. Divers don't at all resemble what these sharks eat, and what they eat isn't usually found on reefs or wrecks. Record size shortfin mako are in the local waters here too, and I'm almost certain I'll never ever see one while diving.

If you want to see one in action, check out this footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6SFVliuYk)from a camera towed behind a boat that's much faster than you. I think understanding a shark's behavior is a much better defensive tool than weaponry.

Bull sharks might not be as big, but those sharks are actually worth worrying about.

monant
08-19-2008, 14:41
What situation were you in that you had to use the .45? Do you live in mtn. lion or bear country or something? I only ask because, while I am a gun owner myself, I have the perhaps naive impression that a lot of people who carry for protection are quick to turn to the gun for resolution. Sort of a "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" thing.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that's you. I'm actually genuinely curious about your situation.

As for how this relates to powerheads for protection though, I personally believe that people carrying powerheads are more likely to invite problems with the sharks they're trying to protect themselves from, than are people who's best response to sharky aggression is to take defensive action. Frankly, I'd be more concerned about getting in the water with a diver carrying a powerhead than I would be about getting in the water with most kinds of shark. Unless you have a good reason to expect that your dives will put you in a dangerous situation with sharks, and you feel you need to do the dive despite that risk, I don't see where a powerhead is at all desireable. I think there are a number of "just in case" tools that have a much greater liklihood of being useful to a diver, and you can't bring everything.

Not that I'm saying you shouldn't have one... I'm just saying I wouldn't even consider it except under very unusual circumstances. Definately not as an everyday precaution.


I also use a seatbelt and have never needed it but you will not see me or my children in a vehicle without wearing one.
I wear a seatbelt too... not sure what that has to do with anything though.

I'll send you a private message about the two legged animals. I understand about not wanting to get in the water with someone with a power head. I'm particular of who I get into the water with when they have a spear gun. If I do buy a power head, I will use only blanks and it will be purly defensive. I really never expect to use it but I like to manage risks I perceive.

Splitlip
08-19-2008, 14:58
It is the expanding gas in a powerhead which does the damage, not so much the projectile.

My old powerhead did not even have a projectile. The rounds were similar to .38 casings crimpted one over the other.

Never needed it. Only carried it on the familly boat because Mom had seen Jaws and she bought it for me.

monant
08-19-2008, 15:04
There were several animals of the two legged variety.

Those are the ones I'm most concerned about too... both above and below the water's surface.
:smiley2:

What got me thinking of a power head/bank stick was an 11ft 844 pound mako caught here last year.
No offence, but I don't think you'd have a snowball's chance in hell of deploying a powerhead in time to stop a mako. They're built for speed, and hunt for fast fish in pelagic waters. A diver would be extremely unlikely to be anywhere a mako might be found unless they were there specificly to dive with makos or the fish they hunt, and even if one was there, it's highly unlikely you'd see it unless you lured it in. Divers don't at all resemble what these sharks eat, and what they eat isn't usually found on reefs or wrecks. Record size shortfin mako are in the local waters here too, and I'm almost certain I'll never ever see one while diving.

If you want to see one in action, check out this footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6SFVliuYk)from a camera towed behind a boat that's much faster than you. I think understanding a shark's behavior is a much better defensive tool than weaponry.

Bull sharks might not be as big, but those sharks are actually worth worrying about.

As I learn more about specific sharks I learn to mitigate the dangers of being in the water with them. Some say great whites have a bad rap and bulls are more dangerous. That may be so but while in the water with my fins on; there are not many bulls as big as I am, at least the ones Iíve seen. The great whites are another story. I've seen numerous television programs showing people in the water with bulls, tigers, and hammerheads. I've only seen one program showing a person in the water with a great white without a shark cage and if I remember correctly, he had become familiar with the specific sharks in the area and he would only get in the water with a few of them. Bulls don't do ambush attacks like great whites which is why you can push them away with a spear. Great whites hit you and come back later after you are weakened or dead. I won't be able to watch the video on the link you provided until later but are you saying makos do ambush attacks? I did know makos arepelagic, that's why I was surprised when one was caught here. To be honest I didn't know there were makos in the Northern Gulf.

monant
08-19-2008, 15:15
It is the expanding gas in a powerhead which does the damage, not so much the projectile.

My old powerhead did not even have a projectile. The rounds were similar to .38 casings crimpted one over the other.

Never needed it. Only carried it on the familly boat because Mom had seen Jaws and she bought it for me.


The blanks can be dangerous but are safer than live rounds with a projectile. I'm sure mine will be like yours and will never see any use but who knows.

MSilvia
08-19-2008, 16:19
I won't be able to watch the video on the link you provided until later but are you saying makos do ambush attacks?
It's not that they ambush in the same way as great whites, but they are one of the fastest fish in the sea, and they use that to their advantage when hunting. A mako might very well start an attack from hundreds of yards away and have a piece of food in his mouth within seconds. It would be a miracle if you saw a mako coming at speed. They aren't always at full sprint, but they don't do much lounging as I understand it.

Fortunately, they hunt fish, not mammals. They're toothy, but you aren't on the menu. Try not to look like a mackerel.

Splitlip
08-19-2008, 17:06
There were several animals of the two legged variety.

Those are the ones I'm most concerned about too... both above and below the water's surface.
:smiley2:

What got me thinking of a power head/bank stick was an 11ft 844 pound mako caught here last year.
No offence, but I don't think you'd have a snowball's chance in hell of deploying a powerhead in time to stop a mako. They're built for speed, and hunt for fast fish in pelagic waters. A diver would be extremely unlikely to be anywhere a mako might be found unless they were there specificly to dive with makos or the fish they hunt, and even if one was there, it's highly unlikely you'd see it unless you lured it in. Divers don't at all resemble what these sharks eat, and what they eat isn't usually found on reefs or wrecks. Record size shortfin mako are in the local waters here too, and I'm almost certain I'll never ever see one while diving.

If you want to see one in action, check out this footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6SFVliuYk)from a camera towed behind a boat that's much faster than you. I think understanding a shark's behavior is a much better defensive tool than weaponry.

Bull sharks might not be as big, but those sharks are actually worth worrying about.

As I learn more about specific sharks I learn to mitigate the dangers of being in the water with them. Some say great whites have a bad rap and bulls are more dangerous. That may be so but while in the water with my fins on; there are not many bulls as big as I am, at least the ones Iíve seen. The great whites are another story. I've seen numerous television programs showing people in the water with bulls, tigers, and hammerheads. I've only seen one program showing a person in the water with a great white without a shark cage and if I remember correctly, he had become familiar with the specific sharks in the area and he would only get in the water with a few of them. Bulls don't do ambush attacks like great whites which is why you can push them away with a spear. Great whites hit you and come back later after you are weakened or dead. I won't be able to watch the video on the link you provided until later but are you saying makos do ambush attacks? I did know makos arepelagic, that's why I was surprised when one was caught here. To be honest I didn't know there were makos in the Northern Gulf.

So is it the GW's that concern you? Where are you diving?

Splitlip
08-19-2008, 19:59
Only time I've seen them used is to kill Nurse Sharks, Angel Fish, non agressive Jewfish (Goliaths) and non agressive Reef Sharks.

(the reef sharks were baited in a movie shot by somebody local)

monant
08-19-2008, 20:01
There were several animals of the two legged variety.

Those are the ones I'm most concerned about too... both above and below the water's surface.
:smiley2:

What got me thinking of a power head/bank stick was an 11ft 844 pound mako caught here last year.
No offence, but I don't think you'd have a snowball's chance in hell of deploying a powerhead in time to stop a mako. They're built for speed, and hunt for fast fish in pelagic waters. A diver would be extremely unlikely to be anywhere a mako might be found unless they were there specificly to dive with makos or the fish they hunt, and even if one was there, it's highly unlikely you'd see it unless you lured it in. Divers don't at all resemble what these sharks eat, and what they eat isn't usually found on reefs or wrecks. Record size shortfin mako are in the local waters here too, and I'm almost certain I'll never ever see one while diving.

If you want to see one in action, check out this footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6SFVliuYk)from a camera towed behind a boat that's much faster than you. I think understanding a shark's behavior is a much better defensive tool than weaponry.

Bull sharks might not be as big, but those sharks are actually worth worrying about.

As I learn more about specific sharks I learn to mitigate the dangers of being in the water with them. Some say great whites have a bad rap and bulls are more dangerous. That may be so but while in the water with my fins on; there are not many bulls as big as I am, at least the ones Iíve seen. The great whites are another story. I've seen numerous television programs showing people in the water with bulls, tigers, and hammerheads. I've only seen one program showing a person in the water with a great white without a shark cage and if I remember correctly, he had become familiar with the specific sharks in the area and he would only get in the water with a few of them. Bulls don't do ambush attacks like great whites which is why you can push them away with a spear. Great whites hit you and come back later after you are weakened or dead. I won't be able to watch the video on the link you provided until later but are you saying makos do ambush attacks? I did know makos arepelagic, that's why I was surprised when one was caught here. To be honest I didn't know there were makos in the Northern Gulf.

So is it the GW's that concern you? Where are you diving?

I dive in the Northern Gulf of Mexico, I'm not real concerned with them here.

Splitlip
08-19-2008, 20:05
There were several animals of the two legged variety.

Those are the ones I'm most concerned about too... both above and below the water's surface.
:smiley2:

What got me thinking of a power head/bank stick was an 11ft 844 pound mako caught here last year.
No offence, but I don't think you'd have a snowball's chance in hell of deploying a powerhead in time to stop a mako. They're built for speed, and hunt for fast fish in pelagic waters. A diver would be extremely unlikely to be anywhere a mako might be found unless they were there specificly to dive with makos or the fish they hunt, and even if one was there, it's highly unlikely you'd see it unless you lured it in. Divers don't at all resemble what these sharks eat, and what they eat isn't usually found on reefs or wrecks. Record size shortfin mako are in the local waters here too, and I'm almost certain I'll never ever see one while diving.

If you want to see one in action, check out this footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE6SFVliuYk)from a camera towed behind a boat that's much faster than you. I think understanding a shark's behavior is a much better defensive tool than weaponry.

Bull sharks might not be as big, but those sharks are actually worth worrying about.

As I learn more about specific sharks I learn to mitigate the dangers of being in the water with them. Some say great whites have a bad rap and bulls are more dangerous. That may be so but while in the water with my fins on; there are not many bulls as big as I am, at least the ones Iíve seen. The great whites are another story. I've seen numerous television programs showing people in the water with bulls, tigers, and hammerheads. I've only seen one program showing a person in the water with a great white without a shark cage and if I remember correctly, he had become familiar with the specific sharks in the area and he would only get in the water with a few of them. Bulls don't do ambush attacks like great whites which is why you can push them away with a spear. Great whites hit you and come back later after you are weakened or dead. I won't be able to watch the video on the link you provided until later but are you saying makos do ambush attacks? I did know makos arepelagic, that's why I was surprised when one was caught here. To be honest I didn't know there were makos in the Northern Gulf.

So is it the GW's that concern you? Where are you diving?

I dive in the Northern Gulf of Mexico, I'm not real concerned with them here.

What concerns you then?

monant
08-19-2008, 20:06
MSilvia,

I watched the video from the link you provided. I agree. If I looked like food there wouldn't be much I could do. Since I can't swim faster than the shark, I guess I just have to swim faster than my buddy.

MSilvia
08-20-2008, 07:24
MSilvia,

I watched the video from the link you provided. I agree. If I looked like food there wouldn't be much I could do. Since I can't swim faster than the shark, I guess I just have to swim faster than my buddy.
Bingo!
Those fish go like rockets, huh?

monant
08-21-2008, 14:42
I found the following statistics at Florida Museum of Natural History Ichthyology Department (http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/statistics/FLattacks.htm)

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/statistics/flactivity.jpg

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/statistics/fldayattacks.jpg

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/sharks/statistics/flspeciesattacks.jpg

MSilvia
08-21-2008, 14:52
You'll notice attacks on divers are low across the board. As I said, it's hard to mistake a diver for shark food. I wish they had a multi-dimensional chart though. I'd like to see unprovoked attacks by species and time of day on divers only. I'd also like to see it cross-referenced with species population statistics. If (for example) tiger sharks are very rare in florida, or mako sharks are extremely common, that would have a big influence on how I interpret the data.

That way, we could see trends, and come up with rules of thumb like (again for example), "If you see a lemon shark while diving in florida at 7pm, look out!"

In the absence of context, the data's hard to read in a meaningful way. I mean, are sharks more aggressive at peak attack hours, or are there just more swimmers at the beaches then?

monant
08-21-2008, 15:42
I can't agree more. The best you can take from these statistics are several questions:

1. They show which species are more aggressive. But do these species represent a larger population than those appearing to not be aggressive?

2. The time of day most likely to be attacked. But is it due to shark activity or more people in the water?

3. Surfers are more likely to be attacked than swimmers but which group represents the larger population? I would guess swimmers represent the larger population.

4. Diving is the safest activity. But is it due to a smaller population of divers or because a shark can identify a diver as something other than prey? I think it's probably the latter. A marine biologist told me the transition is the most dangerous place to be. The transition is at the surface and while there, a shark has difficulty identifying you. In order to identify you it will bite you. After you descend you are likely as big as the shark and look like another predator not prey. I believe this to be true at least for the area in which I dive. All bets are off in other areas where the sharks are much bigger.

No Misses
08-21-2008, 17:19
I can't agree more. The best you can take from these statistics are several questions:

1. They show which species are more aggressive. But do these species represent a larger population than those appearing to not be aggressive?

2. The time of day most likely to be attacked. But is it due to shark activity or more people in the water?

3. Surfers are more likely to be attacked than swimmers but which group represents the larger population? I would guess swimmers represent the larger population.

4. Diving is the safest activity. But is it due to a smaller population of divers or because a shark can identify a diver as something other than prey? I think it's probably the latter. A marine biologist told me the transition is the most dangerous place to be. The transition is at the surface and while there, a shark has difficulty identifying you. In order to identify you it will bite you. After you descend you are likely as big as the shark and look like another predator not prey. I believe this to be true at least for the area in which I dive. All bets are off in other areas where the sharks are much bigger.

The reason that sharks don't eat divers is because the cylinder gives them gas.:smilie39:

Back to the power head question. I carry a .357 slip on. The few times that I have been in sharky situations, I have been to busy to deploy it.
http://forum.scubatoys.com/hunting-gathering/9518-running-bulls-aka-grouper-story.html?highlight=the+running+of+the+bulls