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rfreddo
08-11-2007, 19:43
My girlfriend is PADI OW certified, but hasn't been in the water for a couple years. Do each of the various certifying organizations have their own currency standards? I'm working on my NAUI OW so that we can dive together, and need to figure out what she needs to do to be able to join me.

Thanks!

thesmoothdome
08-11-2007, 19:46
If she's PADI OW already, you two can dive together once you're certified. Once you're certified, it's for life. You can also choose to take classes from either organization (or other organizations) together.

Phestr
08-11-2007, 20:34
It might not be a bad idea for her to get a refresher, but since you're getting all the info, you can probably bring her up to speed. If she's comfortable, she should be good to go.

cummings66
08-11-2007, 22:39
Only GUE has term limits on their courses. You must be current and renew it every so often. Everybody else is for life as far as I know.

Doesn't mean that it's not a good idea to get some pool work in though to fine tune things.

tedtim
08-12-2007, 11:12
I alway find this to be an interesting discussion. My view is that there it a personal responsibility to determine if you are safe enough to dive. IMO there is a significant difference between being current and being proficient. True, certification (at least most certifications) do not expire for the recreational SCUBA diver. However, if you have not been diving in some time, your level of ability certainly will have become degraded.

When I was a military flight instructor we often had a similar discussion. We had a requirement to maintain a current status on the aircraft we were flying. The flight rules identified what was required. The only problem was that a fairly long period of time could pass between doing a particular aspect (up to six months) and we would still be considered "current." Anyone who had let that amount of time pass was not proficient. They could probably perform the required task, but the quality of that performance was in question. As a supervisor I monitored the proficiency aspect fairly rigorously.

I use this as an anaolgy for diving. In the province of Quebec they now have a requirement for an FQAS card to go diving. This is in addition to any agency certification and resulted from a coroner's report that identified a lack of diving over a long period as a contributor to an accident. The FQAS card is valid for three years after which you must show that you have completed a minimum of ten dives in the past three years, take a course, or re-write the exam. This is hardly a demonstration of proficiency.

Only you can make the decision whether you belive you are adequately prepared and safe to go on a dive. Don't let having a C card be the deciding factor. Pool time is not wasted time if you have not been diving regularly.

namabiru
08-12-2007, 11:24
I use this as an anaolgy for diving. In the province of Quebec they now have a requirement for an FQAS card to go diving. This is in addition to any agency certification and resulted from a coroner's report that identified a lack of diving over a long period as a contributor to an accident. The FQAS card is valid for three years after which you must show that you have completed a minimum of ten dives in the past three years, take a course, or re-write the exam. This is hardly a demonstration of proficiency.



That's quite an interesting requirement. I can think of several questions which come to mind.

-Is the course you have to take a refresher course, or can you consider a different course as evidence that you've been studying up? In other words, would completing your AOW, or a buoyancy course, in the 3-year period be considered good enough to give you the card again?

-Is it convenient? Can you go to a dive shop and get this done, or do you have to play the 'stand in line at the government' game?

-What about non-Quebec residents who go to Quebec and dive? Do they have to get the supplemental card too?

-Does the card cost an arm and a leg?

tedtim
08-12-2007, 11:50
That's quite an interesting requirement. I can think of several questions which come to mind.

-Is the course you have to take a refresher course, or can you consider a different course as evidence that you've been studying up? In other words, would completing your AOW, or a buoyancy course, in the 3-year period be considered good enough to give you the card again? I got the card when they first came out a couple of years ago. We had to spend an evening with a "mandataire" who is certified by the FQAS to issue the cards. He went over the rules and categories. It is now different. You have to take a bit more training during a course and write the FQAS exam. Just taking a course such as AOW does not count. If you have the course, then it is ten dives and find a place that you can renew.


-Is it convenient? Can you go to a dive shop and get this done, or do you have to play the 'stand in line at the government' game? That is all relative. Courses are given through dive shops, but the dive shop has to have somone qualified. I live in Ottawa, just across the river from Gatineau, Quebec, so the dive shops here have mandataires. It just depends if one is available. I know the one at my LDS offers the option to do the FQAS part of the training in conjunction with the OW course.


-What about non-Quebec residents who go to Quebec and dive? Do they have to get the supplemental card too?Unless you want to risk getting caught and paying a fine. They used to be a bit lax in the enforcement, but now it is becoming stricter. Yes, you do need a card. You can get a temporary one, I think it is good for a month, but it will cost about $30. You will need to show proof of diving, but not write the exam.


-Does the card cost an arm and a leg?Not really, but it is just another of those pesky costs that add up over time. IMO it is more of a way to get more $$ into the government coffers and to address the findings of a coroner's report than a real way to improve the quality of divers overall.

ScubaToys Larry
08-12-2007, 12:26
Man, the title of this thread threw me for a minute. When you said Currency Requirements, I thought you knew Padi would take Cash or Credit cards. :smiley36:

porsche060
08-12-2007, 12:45
PADI - Pay another dollar immediately!

namabiru
08-12-2007, 13:10
PADI--Put Another Dollar In :D

Seriously, that subsequent card in Quebec really sounds like something the States would pull, especially with all the unnecessary paranoia these days.

thesmoothdome
08-12-2007, 13:49
PADI--Put Another Dollar In :D

Seriously, that subsequent card in Quebec really sounds like something the States would pull, especially with all the unnecessary paranoia these days.

Shhhhh...don't give them any ideas....Bad idea...Bad idea!!

cummings66
08-12-2007, 18:50
I don't know that it is. For flying I have to be current and fly so many flights in so many months, and then every 2 years I've got to fly with an instructor who makes sure I haven't let bad habits creep in. If I'm still flying well I get signed off. Every 3 years, well it's down to 2 now due to age I have to visit a doctor and get a medical exam done along with presenting my entire medical history in between exams. I usually get a printout from the doctor.

Right now scuba diving is easy in comparison, but I don't think it'd be the end of the world if requirements such as those happened. It did cut down the deaths in flying, but not all because some escape the system.

thesmoothdome
08-12-2007, 19:42
i understand your point. I'm just not a fan of increased regulation. I think we have too much of it in society to CYA already. I think in terms of professionals, I believe it's important to stay current. It's your job. After 10 years off, I wouldn't expect PADI to just welcome me back into the instructor ranks without testing my skills in some way, but I'd be really pissed if PADI started forcing us to go for re-certs after a certain amount of time passed, regardless of how much time in the water I have.

porsche060
08-12-2007, 19:50
Trust me, if re-cert if the future way for them to make $, they'll do it..

porsche060
08-12-2007, 19:50
Now if only PADI had stock we could invest in :-)

tedtim
08-12-2007, 20:01
.... For flying I have to be current and fly so many flights in so many months, and then every 2 years I've got to fly with an instructor who makes sure I haven't let bad habits creep in. If I'm still flying well I get signed off. Every 3 years, well it's down to 2 now due to age I have to visit a doctor and get a medical exam done along with presenting my entire medical history in between exams. I usually get a printout from the doctor.This is my point about the difference between being current and being proficient. We had a few guys who would fly the required flights at the start of the period and then at the end of the following period (three months each - mostly night flying requirements), so it was close to six months between flights. I put a stop to that.

As for the medical aspect, that is truly interesting. Instructors, and agency standards demand that students have a medical form completed before taking a course, but their own medical condition may not have been checked in a number of years. Now, you can't be certain that the form is completed accurately. So much for being an example to your students.

i understand your point. I'm just not a fan of increased regulation. I think we have too much of it in society to CYA already. I think in terms of professionals, I believe it's important to stay current. It's your job. After 10 years off, I wouldn't expect PADI to just welcome me back into the instructor ranks without testing my skills in some way, but I'd be really pissed if PADI started forcing us to go for re-certs after a certain amount of time passed, regardless of how much time in the water I have.What I think is that you should have to demonstrate that you are staying current. The agencies record it when you finish someone's certification. I suggest that they could set a standard for certifications, whether they be OW or specialties. If an instructor does not complete the requisite number of certifications, then they either give it up, or have to assist another instructor before they are good to go again.

I know that to maintain a private pilot licence in Canada you have to complete mini quizes contained in the quarterly bulletins. You don't have to send them in, but you do have to keep them in the event that there is some form of QA that is done for whatever reason. I think that NAUI might have something along this for instructors. It is a good idea to at least demonstrate active steps to continuing education.

What really scares me is the drivers who get their licence as a teenager and then never have to be tested again. Take a look at how close you travel to someone on the freeway (that person drinking the coffee and talking on the cell phone) and think about it when you are at reasonably high speed.

rfreddo
08-13-2007, 09:40
Belonging to the pilot and skydiving communities, I also am used to living with currency requirements. Believe it or not, I think the skydiving community actually has it right in this case by requiring some minimum standard without putting a strangle hold on participants.

Depending on the type of license held, skydivers are required to maintain currency by jumping at least once within a prescribed time period (6 months for the most advanced license holders). To enforce this requirement, skydivers must have a log-book endorsement from a instructor rating holder at some point during the time interval. Doesn't necessarily mean that the skydiver has made a jump with the instructor, just that they have an endorsement by an instructor who witnessed their having made a skydive as to the fact of their having made a skydive. If you don't get the endorsement, you have to jump with an instructor to establish your ability to safely exercise your license. In my 20+ years as a skydiver, I've always viewed this as a pretty easy to meet, common sense approach.

Obviously there is a stark contrast between what is technically required and what is required in the name of personal safety, and I will always err on the side of caution. If I've gone 5 months and 28 days without a jump, I'm not likely to be doing a low-altitude night exit without first doing some brush up work in the air - regardless of whether my log book says I'm technically current.

The bottom line for me is that I will never fly, skydive or scuba dive if I don't feel comfortable getting in the air/water. I just don't like getting in trouble for busting technical currency requirements. The good, or bad, news with all of these types of activities, is that failure to maintain currency is a self-critiquing decision. In some cases it's all too easy to see who's exercising the privileges of their rating without being current.

cummings66
08-14-2007, 00:09
That happens to some IR pilots, they feel they got the rating and can handle it all. But, there's a difference between being competent and and current per the regulations.

To be honest, as a pilot all I've got to do to remain current is to do 3 take off and landings every 90 days. Same goes for night flying. That doesn't mean that even though I'm current that I should go out and try a max crosswind landing.