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MicahEW
08-20-2008, 18:24
I have a new zeagle BP/w combo it has a horseshoe shaped wing and with the cam straps does not need an STA so while i am diving and i have a little air in the wing it wants to float arount the tank and when i try to invert and dump i look like an epileptic hellen keller looking for my dump valves. any hints?

freeski4ever
08-20-2008, 19:01
What size is your wing? If it is too large, it will "taco" around your tank, and make it hell on trim.

Splitlip
08-20-2008, 19:13
I break for Tacos.

http://www.shagman.org/hobbies/diving/20070520-MorrisonSprings/slides/IMG_3257.jpg

Splitlip
08-20-2008, 19:16
Taco free zone
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/xiSkiGuy/P6260043.jpg

bottomdweller
08-20-2008, 19:27
I'm not sure what we are talking about, But I love Tacos!!!!

Daz
08-20-2008, 19:32
I'm not sure what we are talking about, But I love Tacos!!!!I like tacos too - just not tank tacos. Look at the two pics that Splitlip posted - in the top one, the wing folds up and around making a scuba tank "taco". The second pic shows a properly sized wing in use - no taco.

hooligan
08-20-2008, 19:56
mmmm Tacos.... Taco taco man, i want to be a taco man.

Splitlip
08-20-2008, 21:12
mmmm Tacos.... Taco taco man, i want to be a taco man.
. . .

texdiveguy
08-20-2008, 21:18
I have a new zeagle BP/w combo it has a horseshoe shaped wing and with the cam straps does not need an STA so while i am diving and i have a little air in the wing it wants to float arount the tank and when i try to invert and dump i look like an epileptic hellen keller looking for my dump valves. any hints?

Can you tell me which and what size wing you are using?

MicahEW
08-20-2008, 23:11
i have a 35lb zeagle wing it has bungees on each side that are in use

Aussie
08-20-2008, 23:52
I have a few Zeagle wings, 24lbs,34lbs,44lbs,50lbs.

The best way of getting rid of all your air in the wing is to dump your air when in the vertical position and roll a little to the right. I do this on the surface. If you think there is still air in the wing do it again.

This basically removes all of the air out of the wing. Also you wanted to weighted perfect so there isnt any need for adding air to the wing unless your going deeper.

Hope this helps.

Mark

CompuDude
08-21-2008, 14:03
I have a new zeagle BP/w combo it has a horseshoe shaped wing and with the cam straps does not need an STA so while i am diving and i have a little air in the wing it wants to float arount the tank and when i try to invert and dump i look like an epileptic hellen keller looking for my dump valves. any hints?

34 lbs is a suitably small wing. Finding your rear dump valve shouldn't be that tough, although I haven't seen that wing, personally. Are you new to bp/w's? It may just be a matter of practice. Or is the valve in an unusual place compared to other wings?

Note that in a horseshoe wing, you'll need to do a little shoulder-roll to move the air from the right side to the left, where the dump valve is. Then angling down a smidge (stick your butt up) should collect the air right by the exhaust valve for easy dumping.

cummings66
08-21-2008, 15:03
It's just a different gear config to learn where things are and get used to. Practice reaching the valve. For dropping down all I do is dump while vertical since I'm up there with my buddies and as soon as my head drops below the water I go horizontal and stay that way until near the end of the dive. I go vertical there so I can look up and see if there's any boats out there.

Aussie
08-21-2008, 20:32
I dont use the rear dump valves at all. My 34lbs only has one and the others have two. If I only use the dump there would be air trapped in the 34lbs wing.

I just use the inflator to dump my air as stated above.

Regards Mark

Splitlip
08-21-2008, 20:35
I have a new zeagle BP/w combo it has a horseshoe shaped wing and with the cam straps does not need an STA so while i am diving and i have a little air in the wing it wants to float arount the tank and when i try to invert and dump i look like an epileptic hellen keller looking for my dump valves. any hints?

34 lbs is a suitably small wing. Finding your rear dump valve shouldn't be that tough, although I haven't seen that wing, personally. Are you new to bp/w's? It may just be a matter of practice. Or is the valve in an unusual place compared to other wings?

Note that in a horseshoe wing, you'll need to do a little shoulder-roll to move the air from the right side to the left, where the dump valve is. Then angling down a smidge (stick your butt up) should collect the air right by the exhaust valve for easy dumping.

yeah, 34# is not large. The pic I posted is a 51+# Rec Wing "designed for use with doubles or singles". Hmmmmm

Aussie
08-21-2008, 20:42
Alot of people use wings that are just simply too big for a single rig. I have seen a diver with an OMS dual 100lbs wing dive on a single ally????.......dont know why. its was simply a Taco Grande!

Mark

MicahEW
08-22-2008, 00:11
I have a new zeagle BP/w combo it has a horseshoe shaped wing and with the cam straps does not need an STA so while i am diving and i have a little air in the wing it wants to float arount the tank and when i try to invert and dump i look like an epileptic hellen keller looking for my dump valves. any hints?

34 lbs is a suitably small wing. Finding your rear dump valve shouldn't be that tough, although I haven't seen that wing, personally. Are you new to bp/w's? It may just be a matter of practice. Or is the valve in an unusual place compared to other wings?

Note that in a horseshoe wing, you'll need to do a little shoulder-roll to move the air from the right side to the left, where the dump valve is. Then angling down a smidge (stick your butt up) should collect the air right by the exhaust valve for easy dumping.

yes it was a new rig but the valves are on the back of the wing not on the front like most i see. yall are correct probably practice is all it takes. thank you all for the info

freeski4ever
08-22-2008, 00:20
Personally, I use the 18 lbs Oxycheq travel wing, and love it. Its a full wing, but being only 18 lbs, it never "taco's". It is all I need for a single AL80 with a SS/BP. I went to this setup after having a Ranger with a 44 lbs wing, and after switching, I felt almost naked; now whenever I dive my Ranger, I feel like I'm wrapped in a bed comforter!!

CompuDude
08-22-2008, 12:56
I have a new zeagle BP/w combo it has a horseshoe shaped wing and with the cam straps does not need an STA so while i am diving and i have a little air in the wing it wants to float arount the tank and when i try to invert and dump i look like an epileptic hellen keller looking for my dump valves. any hints?

34 lbs is a suitably small wing. Finding your rear dump valve shouldn't be that tough, although I haven't seen that wing, personally. Are you new to bp/w's? It may just be a matter of practice. Or is the valve in an unusual place compared to other wings?

Note that in a horseshoe wing, you'll need to do a little shoulder-roll to move the air from the right side to the left, where the dump valve is. Then angling down a smidge (stick your butt up) should collect the air right by the exhaust valve for easy dumping.

yes it was a new rig but the valves are on the back of the wing not on the front like most i see. yall are correct probably practice is all it takes. thank you all for the info

Do you mean the rear dump valves face up, instead of down, on your wing? If you assembled your rig and laid it backplate-and-harness-side-down on the ground, you'd be looking at the valve on the back?

If so, that's inane, and I'd look into getting another wing. As soon as air is in the wing, the wing will get pulled upwards, sandwiching the valve between the tank and wing, and in case I agree it would be very difficult to dump air with it. That's why every wing I've seen put the valve on the bottom, where, once inflated, it's on the side of the wing you can reach.

I'm hoping I'm wrong in interpreting your post, because Zeagle made a serious error in designing their wing, if that is the case.

Edit: Is this the wing you have? The "All elastic bladder" with 34# lift? The only photo I can find on Zeagle's website is too low-quality to be sure, but it looks like the valve is on the correct side. (Meaning you can't see it in this photo, but you can just see the pull-cord hanging down from the other side.) Given the low resolution of the photo, however, it's not a sure interpretation... it could be we're looking right at the valve (which would be horribly incorrect valve placement), but can't distinguish it from the black-on-black and low res image.

http://www.zeagle.com/clientuploads/pictures/Bcs/7016B_elasticbladder.jpg

IF the valve is actually facing away from us in this photo, then the wing is designed properly, and you just need to practice using it some more. I reach back with my left hand, find the pull cord, and vent by tugging the cord up, toward the surface. In the normal face-down position, this means pushing back with my arm.

MicahEW
08-22-2008, 15:29
no you are correct it is a really bad design. nope thats not the wing here are a few pics.





I have a new zeagle BP/w combo it has a horseshoe shaped wing and with the cam straps does not need an STA so while i am diving and i have a little air in the wing it wants to float arount the tank and when i try to invert and dump i look like an epileptic hellen keller looking for my dump valves. any hints?

34 lbs is a suitably small wing. Finding your rear dump valve shouldn't be that tough, although I haven't seen that wing, personally. Are you new to bp/w's? It may just be a matter of practice. Or is the valve in an unusual place compared to other wings?

Note that in a horseshoe wing, you'll need to do a little shoulder-roll to move the air from the right side to the left, where the dump valve is. Then angling down a smidge (stick your butt up) should collect the air right by the exhaust valve for easy dumping.

yes it was a new rig but the valves are on the back of the wing not on the front like most i see. yall are correct probably practice is all it takes. thank you all for the info

Do you mean the rear dump valves face up, instead of down, on your wing? If you assembled your rig and laid it backplate-and-harness-side-down on the ground, you'd be looking at the valve on the back?

If so, that's inane, and I'd look into getting another wing. As soon as air is in the wing, the wing will get pulled upwards, sandwiching the valve between the tank and wing, and in case I agree it would be very difficult to dump air with it. That's why every wing I've seen put the valve on the bottom, where, once inflated, it's on the side of the wing you can reach.

I'm hoping I'm wrong in interpreting your post, because Zeagle made a serious error in designing their wing, if that is the case.

Edit: Is this the wing you have? The "All elastic bladder" with 34# lift? The only photo I can find on Zeagle's website is too low-quality to be sure, but it looks like the valve is on the correct side. (Meaning you can't see it in this photo, but you can just see the pull-cord hanging down from the other side.) Given the low resolution of the photo, however, it's not a sure interpretation... it could be we're looking right at the valve (which would be horribly incorrect valve placement), but can't distinguish it from the black-on-black and low res image.

http://www.zeagle.com/clientuploads/pictures/Bcs/7016B_elasticbladder.jpg

IF the valve is actually facing away from us in this photo, then the wing is designed properly, and you just need to practice using it some more. I reach back with my left hand, find the pull cord, and vent by tugging the cord up, toward the surface. In the normal face-down position, this means pushing back with my arm.

MicahEW
08-22-2008, 15:35
http://forum.scubatoys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2816&stc=1&d=1219437144

http://forum.scubatoys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2817&stc=1&d=1219437144

http://forum.scubatoys.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2818&stc=1&d=1219437144

CompuDude
08-22-2008, 16:46
Those attachments did not work...

Splitlip
08-22-2008, 16:50
I remember on some of the Zeagle BC's I have seen the dump was on the wrong side.
You remember the old DR Venture wing had the valve on the "top" with the longer string threaded through keepers to the "bottom".





I have a new zeagle BP/w combo it has a horseshoe shaped wing and with the cam straps does not need an STA so while i am diving and i have a little air in the wing it wants to float arount the tank and when i try to invert and dump i look like an epileptic hellen keller looking for my dump valves. any hints?

34 lbs is a suitably small wing. Finding your rear dump valve shouldn't be that tough, although I haven't seen that wing, personally. Are you new to bp/w's? It may just be a matter of practice. Or is the valve in an unusual place compared to other wings?

Note that in a horseshoe wing, you'll need to do a little shoulder-roll to move the air from the right side to the left, where the dump valve is. Then angling down a smidge (stick your butt up) should collect the air right by the exhaust valve for easy dumping.

yes it was a new rig but the valves are on the back of the wing not on the front like most i see. yall are correct probably practice is all it takes. thank you all for the info

Do you mean the rear dump valves face up, instead of down, on your wing? If you assembled your rig and laid it backplate-and-harness-side-down on the ground, you'd be looking at the valve on the back?

If so, that's inane, and I'd look into getting another wing. As soon as air is in the wing, the wing will get pulled upwards, sandwiching the valve between the tank and wing, and in case I agree it would be very difficult to dump air with it. That's why every wing I've seen put the valve on the bottom, where, once inflated, it's on the side of the wing you can reach.

I'm hoping I'm wrong in interpreting your post, because Zeagle made a serious error in designing their wing, if that is the case.

Edit: Is this the wing you have? The "All elastic bladder" with 34# lift? The only photo I can find on Zeagle's website is too low-quality to be sure, but it looks like the valve is on the correct side. (Meaning you can't see it in this photo, but you can just see the pull-cord hanging down from the other side.) Given the low resolution of the photo, however, it's not a sure interpretation... it could be we're looking right at the valve (which would be horribly incorrect valve placement), but can't distinguish it from the black-on-black and low res image.

http://www.zeagle.com/clientuploads/pictures/Bcs/7016B_elasticbladder.jpg

IF the valve is actually facing away from us in this photo, then the wing is designed properly, and you just need to practice using it some more. I reach back with my left hand, find the pull cord, and vent by tugging the cord up, toward the surface. In the normal face-down position, this means pushing back with my arm.

dmainou
08-22-2008, 17:36
Hi,

I have the Zeagle, Elastic wing.

I think you may have fitted the wing upside down.

The dump valve near to your hip should be facing your hip. The inflator should be facing the tank.

To dump air you have three options:

1. Roll a little to the right and pull the dump valve next to your hip
2. grab your inflator hose, rise your hand and press the release button.
3. grab your inflator hose, look up (rise your chest a bit) and pull the inflator hose as it has a second dump valve incorporated to it.

I've had my Zeagle for more than a year now and I love it.

rktman26
08-22-2008, 17:51
Would the correct side for the Brigade be the same?

The Brigade I got a few weeks ago has the lower dump valves on the same side as the tank. IOW, if I am horizontal, facing the bottom, they are topside.

Is that not correct?

mitsuguy
08-22-2008, 18:24
Would the correct side for the Brigade be the same?

The Brigade I got a few weeks ago has the lower dump valves on the same side as the tank. IOW, if I am horizontal, facing the bottom, they are topside.

Is that not correct?

my Tusa back inflate BC is that way, and I have never had a problem dumping air, in fact, if you are horizontal, it makes more sense to have the valve topside, as air goes up easier than it goes down, so, in theory it should be easier to dump the air with the valve on the tank side...

Again, I've never had problems, however, one benefit of my BC is that both sides have lower (and upper) dump valves, so there is no need to roll to one side to vent air...

rktman26
08-22-2008, 18:32
It makes sense to me to have the exhaust valves on the top side as well.

If you look at the Birgade on ST's website, the dump valves are toward the diver, not the surface. Mine is the opposite, the valves are topside.

CompuDude
08-22-2008, 21:57
It seems illogical to put the valves "face down", as it seems, but in reality it's not. As long as the valve is at the corner of the bag, when you pull it back to vent it will be the highest point, and then it doesn't matter which side of the bag it's on, it's going to vent. When it comes to finding and locating the vent, however, putting it face down so you can find it by feel is definitely the right way. You'll note DiveRite (with one apparently exception), OxyCheq, Deep Sea Supply, Halcyon, Golem Gear, Agir-Brokk, etc., ALL put the valves in a "face down" position. And these companies know a little something about making wings.

http://www.halcyon.net/images/evolve/Evolve60_pst130_front01.jpg http://www.extreme-exposure.com/files/product_images/10-eclipse30_MCsystem_0.jpg

These wings show the proper direction the rear dump valve should face. Put your left hand back, and it's right there.

mitsuguy
08-22-2008, 22:16
It seems illogical to put the valves "face down", as it seems, but in reality it's not. As long as the valve is at the corner of the bag, when you pull it back to vent it will be the highest point, and then it doesn't matter which side of the bag it's on, it's going to vent. When it comes to finding and locating the vent, however, putting it face down so you can find it by feel is definitely the right way. You'll note DiveRite (with one apparently exception), OxyCheq, Deep Sea Supply, Halcyon, Golem Gear, Agir-Brokk, etc., ALL put the valves in a "face down" position. And these companies know a little something about making wings.

<snip>
These wings show the proper direction the rear dump valve should face. Put your left hand back, and it's right there.

I don't doubt they know something about making wings... but I would believe if you really looked into it, you would find they are on the front to cut costs by not having to run the pull cord to the front... on my BC, the pull is routed to the bottom, for easy access - and works perfectly, you pull (pretty much any direction), and it vents air... with the dumps mounted on the backside that do not have the pull routed to the front, I could see it being a little harder to get to... but again, in the end, a dump mounted on the back of the bc is going to be easier to get air out of than one mounted on the front... there may not be a huge difference, but there is no way you can argue against that...

Splitlip
08-22-2008, 22:23
It makes sense to me to have the exhaust valves on the top side as well.

If you look at the Birgade on ST's website, the dump valves are toward the diver, not the surface. Mine is the opposite, the valves are topside.

Sorry, no.

When the wing naturaly Tacos (yes taco is bad) you don't want the dump valve flapped against the tank.
Rather, have it on your side, grab the string and pull away from your butt. This pulls the dump up and into the optimum position for venting. (We are horizontal here).

If the valve was flapped against your tank, you would have to gyrate to get the string and still pull away from your butt. And it is more awkward as your arm may now be extended just reaching the string.
If you have the old DR Venture set up, (WTF) and you grab the string and pull down, you get water in the wing. Pull up, is the same effect as have the valve on the lower side. So why bother. Halcyon, Oxy, OMS,etc have it rig

Splitlip
08-22-2008, 22:24
It seems illogical to put the valves "face down", as it seems, but in reality it's not. As long as the valve is at the corner of the bag, when you pull it back to vent it will be the highest point, and then it doesn't matter which side of the bag it's on, it's going to vent. When it comes to finding and locating the vent, however, putting it face down so you can find it by feel is definitely the right way. You'll note DiveRite (with one apparently exception), OxyCheq, Deep Sea Supply, Halcyon, Golem Gear, Agir-Brokk, etc., ALL put the valves in a "face down" position. And these companies know a little something about making wings.

<snip>
These wings show the proper direction the rear dump valve should face. Put your left hand back, and it's right there.

I don't doubt they know something about making wings... but I would believe if you really looked into it, you would find they are on the front to cut costs by not having to run the pull cord to the front... on my BC, the pull is routed to the bottom, for easy access - and works perfectly, you pull (pretty much any direction), and it vents air... with the dumps mounted on the backside that do not have the pull routed to the front, I could see it being a little harder to get to... but again, in the end, a dump mounted on the back of the bc is going to be easier to get air out of than one mounted on the front... there may not be a huge difference, but there is no way you can argue against that...

Sorry. No.

Not the case. LOL

You are incorrect.

Edit: I laugh because your comment seems so logical and is a common conception. ( not that I had to learn for myself)

mitsuguy
08-22-2008, 22:31
It seems illogical to put the valves "face down", as it seems, but in reality it's not. As long as the valve is at the corner of the bag, when you pull it back to vent it will be the highest point, and then it doesn't matter which side of the bag it's on, it's going to vent. When it comes to finding and locating the vent, however, putting it face down so you can find it by feel is definitely the right way. You'll note DiveRite (with one apparently exception), OxyCheq, Deep Sea Supply, Halcyon, Golem Gear, Agir-Brokk, etc., ALL put the valves in a "face down" position. And these companies know a little something about making wings.

<snip>
These wings show the proper direction the rear dump valve should face. Put your left hand back, and it's right there.

I don't doubt they know something about making wings... but I would believe if you really looked into it, you would find they are on the front to cut costs by not having to run the pull cord to the front... on my BC, the pull is routed to the bottom, for easy access - and works perfectly, you pull (pretty much any direction), and it vents air... with the dumps mounted on the backside that do not have the pull routed to the front, I could see it being a little harder to get to... but again, in the end, a dump mounted on the back of the bc is going to be easier to get air out of than one mounted on the front... there may not be a huge difference, but there is no way you can argue against that...

Sorry. No.

Not the case. LOL

whats not the case? maybe it's different because I have a back inflate BC, but with my BC, there is no valve up against the tank as you were stating, and the valve is always pointed up (assuming horizontal), no matter how you pull the string, and as we all know, air likes to travel up, so, that has got to be better than making air travel down, and having to roll and such like everyones been talking about to get air out...

rktman26
08-22-2008, 22:32
so, the Zeagle's are "wrong"?

mitsuguy
08-22-2008, 22:34
so, the Zeagle's are "wrong"?

I don't necessarily think there is a "wrong" in this situation, just some people think its smarter to have it on one side, and some, the other...

Mine is mounted tank side, and I have had absolutely zero problems dumping air from either side (mine has lower pulls on both sides), I suppose if I had ever had a problem dumping air, then I might be somewhat convinced of having it on the bottom, but I haven't...

Splitlip
08-22-2008, 22:43
It seems illogical to put the valves "face down", as it seems, but in reality it's not. As long as the valve is at the corner of the bag, when you pull it back to vent it will be the highest point, and then it doesn't matter which side of the bag it's on, it's going to vent. When it comes to finding and locating the vent, however, putting it face down so you can find it by feel is definitely the right way. You'll note DiveRite (with one apparently exception), OxyCheq, Deep Sea Supply, Halcyon, Golem Gear, Agir-Brokk, etc., ALL put the valves in a "face down" position. And these companies know a little something about making wings.

<snip>
These wings show the proper direction the rear dump valve should face. Put your left hand back, and it's right there.

I don't doubt they know something about making wings... but I would believe if you really looked into it, you would find they are on the front to cut costs by not having to run the pull cord to the front... on my BC, the pull is routed to the bottom, for easy access - and works perfectly, you pull (pretty much any direction), and it vents air... with the dumps mounted on the backside that do not have the pull routed to the front, I could see it being a little harder to get to... but again, in the end, a dump mounted on the back of the bc is going to be easier to get air out of than one mounted on the front... there may not be a huge difference, but there is no way you can argue against that...

Sorry. No.

Not the case. LOL

whats not the case? maybe it's different because I have a back inflate BC, but with my BC, there is no valve up against the tank as you were stating, and the valve is always pointed up (assuming horizontal), no matter how you pull the string, and as we all know, air likes to travel up, so, that has got to be better than making air travel down, and having to roll and such like everyones been talking about to get air out...

Your BC may have a bungeed wing which keeps the valve away from the tank.
But when you pull the dump (string) which way do you pull. For it to work in a horizontal position you pull away from your body. Or "up" towards the tank. So you want the valve down, near your body so you can grab the string then pull up, away. That moves the valve to the optimum position for dumping.
This thread started about BPW's. I assure you, you want the valve down so you can get the string and then pull up. If your valve is up, do you pull down? Of course not. It does matter which way you pull. Pulling down will only let water into your BC

Splitlip
08-22-2008, 22:47
Once I start my decent, all my BC venting is done from the rear dump valve.
Now I do use a donut, but the valve to me is the most efficient way.

mitsuguy
08-22-2008, 22:52
Your BC may have a bungeed wing which keeps the valve away from the tank.
But when you pull the dump (string) which way do you pull. For it to work in a horizontal position you pull away from your body. Or "up" towards the tank. So you want the valve down, near your body so you can grab the string then pull up, away. That moves the valve to the optimum position for dumping.
This thread started about BPW's. I assure you, you want the valve down so you can get the string and then pull up. If your valve is up, do you pull down? Of course not. It does matter which way you pull. Pulling down will only let water into your BC

Correct, the wing part is more of a stretchy material... but, when I pull the string, I can literally pull any direction I want, though I typically pull down - it is grommeted, so mechanically, any direction is pulling the valve open the same way... Explain how water would get in the bladder with it pointing up, not down? I'd love to hear or see why it matters... Pretty much, if there is air in the bladder, then water won't be coming in, but if there is no air in the bladder, and you pull the string, it doesn't matter what orientation it is in, water will come into the bladder... (the exception to this is if there is air in the bladder, but nowhere close to the dump, ie you are in an upright position, and still pulling the lower dump valve, still, irregardless where the valve is located)

Splitlip
08-22-2008, 22:54
so, the Zeagle's are "wrong"?

Well, if the Zeagles are all Horshoes, it may not matter either way. In some phylosophies, the rear dump is no more than an OPV. (over pressure release valve.). In that case, all your dumping would be through the inflator hose which would require a heads up position. If you are perfectly horizontal would only require a little jiggle.
But for me, I dump from the rear in a horizontal (slightly heads down)position. I have donuts, so at the most I wag a hip to dump.

Splitlip
08-22-2008, 22:59
Your BC may have a bungeed wing which keeps the valve away from the tank.
But when you pull the dump (string) which way do you pull. For it to work in a horizontal position you pull away from your body. Or "up" towards the tank. So you want the valve down, near your body so you can grab the string then pull up, away. That moves the valve to the optimum position for dumping.
This thread started about BPW's. I assure you, you want the valve down so you can get the string and then pull up. If your valve is up, do you pull down? Of course not. It does matter which way you pull. Pulling down will only let water into your BC

Correct, the wing part is more of a stretchy material... but, when I pull the string, I can literally pull any direction I want, though I typically pull down - it is grommeted, so mechanically, any direction is pulling the valve open the same way... Explain how water would get in the bladder with it pointing up, not down? I'd love to hear or see why it matters... Pretty much, if there is air in the bladder, then water won't be coming in, but if there is no air in the bladder, and you pull the string, it doesn't matter what orientation it is in, water will come into the bladder... (the exception to this is if there is air in the bladder, but nowhere close to the dump, ie you are in an upright position, and still pulling the lower dump valve, still, irregardless where the valve is located)

The air in the bladder will rise to the high point in the wing. Pulling down and opening the wing at the bottom will allow water to migrate into the wing as the presure bubble which would normally prevent the migration is not at the opening.

Ever see how much water comes out of a new divers wing?

That gets there because he presses his hose deflate in a heads down position or pulls his lower dump in a heads up position.

mitsuguy
08-22-2008, 23:08
The air in the bladder will rise to the high point in the wing. Pulling down and opening the wing at the bottom will allow water to migrate into the wing as the presure bubble which would normally prevent the migration is not at the opening.

Ever see how much water comes out of a new divers wing?

That gets there because he presses his hose deflate in a heads down position or pulls his lower dump in a heads up position.

It's clear that my BC operates differently from the wings that you have experienced... when I pull down, it is still a high point on the "wing" and therefore doesn't push the air to a different place in it... it's all about location and keeping it from moving... I do understand what you are saying now.... the only time I've been guilty of having a bunch of water in mine is when I haven't had quite enough weight, or when I'm bored in the pool with new students and start playing with the inflator/dumps...

Aussie
08-22-2008, 23:11
i have a 35lb zeagle wing it has bungees on each side that are in use

Going back to the original question.

The Zeagle 35lbs wing has a single dump valve on the left hand bottom of the wing and the standard inflator/deflator also on the left. Its a horseshoe shaped with bungeed sides.

Still the best way to get rig of all your air out of your wing is to hold your inflator high in a vertical position and dump all your air. Sometimes a small roll to the right gets rid of air if your using a larger wing.

Using the single rear dump valve sometimes traps air in the wing and isnt effective as using the inflator in the vertical. Its not rocket science.

If your wing is taco-ing, well you most likely to have a wing simply too big for your setup.

Mark

Splitlip
08-22-2008, 23:20
The air in the bladder will rise to the high point in the wing. Pulling down and opening the wing at the bottom will allow water to migrate into the wing as the presure bubble which would normally prevent the migration is not at the opening.

Ever see how much water comes out of a new divers wing?

That gets there because he presses his hose deflate in a heads down position or pulls his lower dump in a heads up position.

It's clear that my BC operates differently from the wings that you have experienced... when I pull down, it is still a high point on the "wing" and therefore doesn't push the air to a different place in it... it's all about location and keeping it from moving... I do understand what you are saying now.... the only time I've been guilty of having a bunch of water in mine is when I haven't had quite enough weight, or when I'm bored in the pool with new students and start playing with the inflator/dumps...

Yes, I thought about that. If your wing is such that the dump will open before the wing "deflects" (like a stab jacket), then top side makes sence.

My real experience came from experimenting with the DR Venture Wing, OMS 32 and 3 Oxycheqs. All donuts.

I admit, I had a Zeagle BC, but I am not sure which side the the bottom dump was on. It was a Horseshoe, so I did as Aussie decribes. Dumped from the hose.

CompuDude
08-24-2008, 04:13
The air in the bladder will rise to the high point in the wing. Pulling down and opening the wing at the bottom will allow water to migrate into the wing as the presure bubble which would normally prevent the migration is not at the opening.

Ever see how much water comes out of a new divers wing?

That gets there because he presses his hose deflate in a heads down position or pulls his lower dump in a heads up position.

It's clear that my BC operates differently from the wings that you have experienced... when I pull down, it is still a high point on the "wing" and therefore doesn't push the air to a different place in it... it's all about location and keeping it from moving... I do understand what you are saying now.... the only time I've been guilty of having a bunch of water in mine is when I haven't had quite enough weight, or when I'm bored in the pool with new students and start playing with the inflator/dumps...

Yes, I thought about that. If your wing is such that the dump will open before the wing "deflects" (like a stab jacket), then top side makes sence.

My real experience came from experimenting with the DR Venture Wing, OMS 32 and 3 Oxycheqs. All donuts.

I admit, I had a Zeagle BC, but I am not sure which side the the bottom dump was on. It was a Horseshoe, so I did as Aussie decribes. Dumped from the hose.

Agreed. BCs are not the same as wings, even if they are rear-inflate BCs. This thread was about bp/w's, which use fairly standardized designs, and without some unusual modifications, are going to want the valve placed on the bottom of the wing, placing it pointing "out" from the tank once the wing has air in it.

Aussie: Horseshoe wings can benefit from using the rear dump just as much as full-circle wings. There's no "need" to go vertical to dump air. Depending on the exact gas distribution in the wing, sometimes a shrug of the shoulders is needed to even things out, but it's definitely not necessary to actually go vertical.

dmainou
08-24-2008, 05:20
Hi,

The 34lb elastic wing is far to small to taco
(at least in the wrong way, like when there is no air around the tank and all the air gets clotted in (2) bubbles above the tank).

There are 3 (THREE) ways of dumping air.
-Through the over pressure valve,
-Through the inflator pull valve,
-Through the inflator hose.

If buoyancy is correct the easiest one is to pull the hose and let the air go through the inflator pull valve.

If your wing doesn't look like this there is something wrong otherwise its just about getting used to the bp/w.
They all work like that and there is a reason for it.

Hope it helps.

By the way, in the last picture I overinflated the wing until the overpressure dumped some air. The wing is literally tiny.

Pictures below

http://users.tpg.com.au/dmainou/DSCF0074.jpg
http://users.tpg.com.au/dmainou/DSCF0075.jpg
http://users.tpg.com.au/dmainou/DSCF0076.jpg
http://users.tpg.com.au/dmainou/DSCF0077.jpg

Aussie
08-24-2008, 06:15
Aussie: Horseshoe wings can benefit from using the rear dump just as much as full-circle wings. There's no "need" to go vertical to dump air. Depending on the exact gas distribution in the wing, sometimes a shrug of the shoulders is needed to even things out, but it's definitely not necessary to actually go vertical.

Its not necessary but its a fast and efective way to remove all the air out of your wing.

The whole idea is to dive with no air in your wing or as little as possible. Going vertical at the surface removes about all the air out of your wing.

If your using the rear dump valves especially on horseshoe wings with one only dump valve you often find air trapped in that side which doesnt have the valve.

Aussie

Aussie
08-24-2008, 06:21
The wing is literally tiny.

Wait until you see the same setup with a 24lbs wing. Smaller still.

BTW I am not a big fan on pulling on inflaator hoses to dump. Seen a few actually pulled completely off.

Aussie

dmainou
08-24-2008, 06:27
The wing is literally tiny.

Wait until you see the same setup with a 24lbs wing. Smaller still.

BTW I am not a big fan on pulling on inflaator hoses to dump. Seen a few actually pulled completely off.

Aussie


Yeah, ur right...

I was referring to the easiest not the one you should use.... (one needs to grab and pull the second one to grab rise and press)

I just think he assembled the wing upside down...

Would be good if he could post some pics..

Aussie
08-24-2008, 06:44
Anyway I still think our setups ( I have the same 34lbs and also a 24lbs version) is one of the best rigs that I have used for single cylinders.

Cheers Mark

MicahEW
08-24-2008, 07:15
here are the pics of my wing and no its not installed wrong and yes a 35#er can taco and it even makes life a little difficult with gloves on.



2826

this one you see the dump valves are on the back and that it is installed correctly (i aint stupid)

2827

this one you see that it is a 35lb er

2828

this one you see that there are no forward dumps

Splitlip
08-24-2008, 07:27
Different from dmainou's Zeagle wing.

Did you buy it new?

Splitlip
08-24-2008, 07:40
I Just reread the previous posts. I should add that I didn't need to go "vertical" to use the inflator dump on my Zeagle. Just had to be sure the top of the wing was higher when dumping. And with some work, I could move the bubble in the wing to use my single opv. But used the inflator almost exclusively. Some Zeagle wings have 2 OPV's

All my wings since I went to a plate have been donuts with a zingle OPV. Now I use the OPV, almost exclusively.







The air in the bladder will rise to the high point in the wing. Pulling down and opening the wing at the bottom will allow water to migrate into the wing as the presure bubble which would normally prevent the migration is not at the opening.

Ever see how much water comes out of a new divers wing?

That gets there because he presses his hose deflate in a heads down position or pulls his lower dump in a heads up position.

It's clear that my BC operates differently from the wings that you have experienced... when I pull down, it is still a high point on the "wing" and therefore doesn't push the air to a different place in it... it's all about location and keeping it from moving... I do understand what you are saying now.... the only time I've been guilty of having a bunch of water in mine is when I haven't had quite enough weight, or when I'm bored in the pool with new students and start playing with the inflator/dumps...

Yes, I thought about that. If your wing is such that the dump will open before the wing "deflects" (like a stab jacket), then top side makes sence.

My real experience came from experimenting with the DR Venture Wing, OMS 32 and 3 Oxycheqs. All donuts.

I admit, I had a Zeagle BC, but I am not sure which side the the bottom dump was on. It was a Horseshoe, so I did as Aussie decribes. Dumped from the hose.

Agreed. BCs are not the same as wings, even if they are rear-inflate BCs. This thread was about bp/w's, which use fairly standardized designs, and without some unusual modifications, are going to want the valve placed on the bottom of the wing, placing it pointing "out" from the tank once the wing has air in it.

Aussie: Horseshoe wings can benefit from using the rear dump just as much as full-circle wings. There's no "need" to go vertical to dump air. Depending on the exact gas distribution in the wing, sometimes a shrug of the shoulders is needed to even things out, but it's definitely not necessary to actually go vertical.

marchand
08-24-2008, 17:51
I have a zeagle tech wing (65#); I have never had a problem it trapping air, even when I'm only using doubled 95's, and I use the rear dumps almost exclusively.

dmainou
08-24-2008, 18:20
Mate,

I'm sure there is something wrong with the wing. Take a look at this pic.

That is the same wing.... the valves are in the other side. Call Zeagle.

Off course it will be a headache to use the dump valves if they are against the tank. I got this pic from them.

http://www.divetub.com.au/img/productImages/bpw_hr/Proportional-Expansion-Blad.jpg

CompuDude
08-24-2008, 18:57
I agree... now that we have seen the actual photos, you can see that dmainou's wing has the valves on what I would consider to be the correct side, and MicahEW's valves appear to be on the wrong side.

CompuDude
08-24-2008, 19:02
Aussie: Horseshoe wings can benefit from using the rear dump just as much as full-circle wings. There's no "need" to go vertical to dump air. Depending on the exact gas distribution in the wing, sometimes a shrug of the shoulders is needed to even things out, but it's definitely not necessary to actually go vertical.

Its not necessary but its a fast and efective way to remove all the air out of your wing.

The whole idea is to dive with no air in your wing or as little as possible. Going vertical at the surface removes about all the air out of your wing.

If your using the rear dump valves especially on horseshoe wings with one only dump valve you often find air trapped in that side which doesnt have the valve.

Aussie

Absolutely nothing wrong with going full vertical at the surface to dump air.

I was referring to adjustments at depth... that's where a little practice with getting used to "managing the bubble" will allow you to keep trim and maintain buoyancy without having to go vertical to adjust.

Big horseshoe wings on doubles rigs are pretty common, and it's a regular skill you need to learn to migrate the air from the right side to the left side to vent from the rear valve... you don't see technical divers (good ones, anyway) going vertical to dump gas from their wings at depth. And in that same vein, with heavy doubles tanks full of gas, you're always going to be diving heavy, and you're always going to have gas in your wing. It's simple physics that you can't get around.

So managing that bubble and learning to shift it to where it needs to be, rather than depending on going vertical to vent, is an important skill to master when diving a horseshoe-shaped wing.

Splitlip
08-24-2008, 19:23
I agree... now that we have seen the actual photos, you can see that dmainou's wing has the valves on what I would consider to be the correct side, and MicahEW's valves appear to be on the wrong side.

I am trying to remember, but I pretty sure I have seen wings on older Zeagle BC's with the valve on the "wrong" side. Dive Rites discontinued venture wing had it on the wrong side. Not the case with the present version of the Venture.

Maybe an old wing?

Aussie
08-24-2008, 20:49
Absolutely nothing wrong with going full vertical at the surface to dump air.

I was referring to adjustments at depth... that's where a little practice with getting used to "managing the bubble" will allow you to keep trim and maintain buoyancy without having to go vertical to adjust.

Big horseshoe wings on doubles rigs are pretty common, and it's a regular skill you need to learn to migrate the air from the right side to the left side to vent from the rear valve... you don't see technical divers (good ones, anyway) going vertical to dump gas from their wings at depth. And in that same vein, with heavy doubles tanks full of gas, you're always going to be diving heavy, and you're always going to have gas in your wing. It's simple physics that you can't get around.

So managing that bubble and learning to shift it to where it needs to be, rather than depending on going vertical to vent, is an important skill to master when diving a horseshoe-shaped wing.

I was referring to dumping at the surface as you really shouldnt need to be playing around with adding air to a 35lbs wing on a single tank rig (unless your going deep). Adjusting trim when coming back from depth I still prefer to use the inflator. You dont have to go full vertical I just roll slightly to the right and hold the inflator high.

I do this with my 50lbs Zeagle Manta wing when I am diving with Double 12.2 fabers as the wing only has one rear dump valve on the left hand side. But this is mainly when I dive with a double in a wetsuit in summer.

Most good Techincal divers would be dumping all their air at the surface and using their drysuit for trimming. Simple physics is that you need to go vertical in a drysuit to obtain the best dump.

Regards Aussie

CompuDude
08-25-2008, 18:13
Absolutely nothing wrong with going full vertical at the surface to dump air.

I was referring to adjustments at depth... that's where a little practice with getting used to "managing the bubble" will allow you to keep trim and maintain buoyancy without having to go vertical to adjust.

Big horseshoe wings on doubles rigs are pretty common, and it's a regular skill you need to learn to migrate the air from the right side to the left side to vent from the rear valve... you don't see technical divers (good ones, anyway) going vertical to dump gas from their wings at depth. And in that same vein, with heavy doubles tanks full of gas, you're always going to be diving heavy, and you're always going to have gas in your wing. It's simple physics that you can't get around.

So managing that bubble and learning to shift it to where it needs to be, rather than depending on going vertical to vent, is an important skill to master when diving a horseshoe-shaped wing.

I was referring to dumping at the surface as you really shouldnt need to be playing around with adding air to a 35lbs wing on a single tank rig (unless your going deep). Adjusting trim when coming back from depth I still prefer to use the inflator. You dont have to go full vertical I just roll slightly to the right and hold the inflator high.

I do this with my 50lbs Zeagle Manta wing when I am diving with Double 12.2 fabers as the wing only has one rear dump valve on the left hand side. But this is mainly when I dive with a double in a wetsuit in summer.

Most good Techincal divers would be dumping all their air at the surface and using their drysuit for trimming. Simple physics is that you need to go vertical in a drysuit to obtain the best dump.

Regards Aussie

I disagree with a considerable amount of what you've said there, but it's irrelevant to this thread, so I'll let it go at that.

1BadSnowMan
08-25-2008, 20:05
I have a new zeagle BP/w combo it has a horseshoe shaped wing and with the cam straps does not need an STA so while i am diving and i have a little air in the wing it wants to float arount the tank and when i try to invert and dump i look like an epileptic hellen keller looking for my dump valves. any hints?

Love the visual. Couldn't stop Laughing. Sorry no answer.:smilie39:

Aussie
08-25-2008, 20:35
Absolutely nothing wrong with going full vertical at the surface to dump air.

I was referring to adjustments at depth... that's where a little practice with getting used to "managing the bubble" will allow you to keep trim and maintain buoyancy without having to go vertical to adjust.

Big horseshoe wings on doubles rigs are pretty common, and it's a regular skill you need to learn to migrate the air from the right side to the left side to vent from the rear valve... you don't see technical divers (good ones, anyway) going vertical to dump gas from their wings at depth. And in that same vein, with heavy doubles tanks full of gas, you're always going to be diving heavy, and you're always going to have gas in your wing. It's simple physics that you can't get around.

So managing that bubble and learning to shift it to where it needs to be, rather than depending on going vertical to vent, is an important skill to master when diving a horseshoe-shaped wing.

I was referring to dumping at the surface as you really shouldnt need to be playing around with adding air to a 35lbs wing on a single tank rig (unless your going deep). Adjusting trim when coming back from depth I still prefer to use the inflator. You dont have to go full vertical I just roll slightly to the right and hold the inflator high.

I do this with my 50lbs Zeagle Manta wing when I am diving with Double 12.2 fabers as the wing only has one rear dump valve on the left hand side. But this is mainly when I dive with a double in a wetsuit in summer.

Most good Techincal divers would be dumping all their air at the surface and using their drysuit for trimming. Simple physics is that you need to go vertical in a drysuit to obtain the best dump.

Regards Aussie

I disagree with a considerable amount of what you've said there, but it's irrelevant to this thread, so I'll let it go at that.

I was just referring back to your posting.

I have experience in the using the small 34/35lbs Zeagle wings and also the Larger 50lbs horseshoe wings for doubles. I think it is relevant to this thread as I have actually have alot of experience in using the wings because I dive with them almost everyday.

Regards Aussie

ScaredSilly
08-25-2008, 20:48
MicahEW, The wing you have is a correctly made wing. Zeagle put the dump valves on "rear" because of the bunges. I saw these at DEMA a couple of years ago and wondered as well. They did the same on their donut wing that was introduced at the same time. See the attached image.

Aussie
08-25-2008, 21:53
MicahEW, The wing you have is a correctly made wing. Zeagle put the dump valves on "rear" because of the bunges. I saw these at DEMA a couple of years ago and wondered as well. They did the same on their donut wing that was introduced at the same time. See the attached image.

There are alot of Zeagle small bungeed wings which have bottom dump valves at the front of the wing. The 35lbs wing off the Stilletto and the 24lbs wing off the scout. Both of which can be used on a BP.

Maybe we can ask Scott from Zeagle the reasoning behind it all.

Regards Aussie

Splitlip
08-25-2008, 22:16
I imagine the bungies hold the wings in to prevent wrapping against the cylinder keeping the valves accessible. OP may need to snug up the bungies.

MicahEW
08-25-2008, 22:41
zeagle is letting me do an exchange for another slightly smaller wing. why in the world would they design it that way?? not logical

ScaredSilly
08-25-2008, 22:54
IIRC in my conversation with the folks with Zeagle is that the bungies pull the wing in and wraps around so having them on the rear keeps them more accessible. Functionally it does make any significant difference. In some ways on the rear the air can be dumped faster.

jj1987
08-25-2008, 23:24
Most good Techincal divers would be dumping all their air at the surface and using their drysuit for trimming.
:smilie40:


zeagle is letting me do an exchange for another slightly smaller wing. why in the world would they design it that way?? not logical
I wish I understood. You would think with the fact that oral inflation is harder, and the rapid air loss during a small puncture that companies would be hesitant to use bungee. Does anyone understand the benefit to a bungee'd wing compared to a properly sized one that does not require a bungee? I've thought this one through, and can't figure it out for myself.

Aussie
08-26-2008, 04:43
Most good Techincal divers would be dumping all their air at the surface and using their drysuit for trimming.
:smilie40:


zeagle is letting me do an exchange for another slightly smaller wing. why in the world would they design it that way?? not logical
I wish I understood. You would think with the fact that oral inflation is harder, and the rapid air loss during a small puncture that companies would be hesitant to use bungee. Does anyone understand the benefit to a bungee'd wing compared to a properly sized one that does not require a bungee? I've thought this one through, and can't figure it out for myself.

I thought the idea of bungeed wings is that they are more compact and streamlined when deflated. What about the idea of a properly sized wing and also bungeed??? Correct size and more compact.

BTW I love my new Zeagle 24lbs wing. Its small, compact, has bunge and even two rear dumps which I never use. Great little wing for single tanks.

Aussie

mitsuguy
08-26-2008, 06:31
I thought the idea of bungeed wings is that they are more compact and streamlined when deflated. What about the idea of a properly sized wing and also bungeed??? Correct size and more compact.

BTW I love my new Zeagle 24lbs wing. Its small, compact, has bunge and even two rear dumps which I never use. Great little wing for single tanks.

Aussie

Yah, I'm not sure how a few pounds of pressure from some bungees would be more pressure than even a relatively shallow 33 feet which would be 14.6 psi... The only time the bungee would push air out by itself would be above the water - once you get in the water, the bungee is only there to "arrange" itself, it's much less pressure than the water pressure itself...

dmainou
08-27-2008, 00:49
zeagle is letting me do an exchange for another slightly smaller wing. why in the world would they design it that way?? not logical


Hi

This is the one I have and like it pretty much.


Bladder Assemblies for single cylinder diving only - double bag constructionAll-Elastic bladder assembly, 34 lb. Lift7016B

Please note that this is a bi-lam wing. It has an internal membrane "bag" plus an external, slightly elastic lycra cover (rather than thick cordura)

If you are using single tanks this MAY be the way to go.

Have a chat to Zeagle see what they recommend

You want something that:
Does NOT have any bungie cords.
Has the dump valve in the side closer to your hip
That is the right size (for singles if you are only using singles.)

Preferably:
It can be easily fitted (and removed) to ANY wing
Has absolutely no type of elastic or bungie cords (if you want to become DIR at some point).

The wing I recommended above does not meet the "preferably" points above but I absolutely love it. It is small and snug and works just fine for me.

I normally don't remove my wing from the BP but it is handy to be able to quickly do it (and maybe install a bigger one to go for a double tank dive). An elastic wing is a failure point in case of a punctured wing as the air goes out quicker.

If I had my chance again I would pick one with all the characteristics above (something like the Oxycheq Match V Extreme) but I am still happy with my current wing in overall terms.

Ps. sorry for the spelling and grammar engrish is not my first language and I am in a bit of a hurry.:smiley2:

Regards,

Diego

mitsuguy
08-27-2008, 07:03
I normally don't remove my wing from the BP but it is handy to be able to quickly do it (and maybe install a bigger one to go for a double tank dive). An elastic wing is a failure point in case of a punctured wing as the air goes out quicker.


I'd LOVE to see the proof of that...

what kind of pressure do you think bungees are capable of.. .5 psi maybe... There is no way in the world you can tell me that submerged under water, that a bungee is going to provide more pressure than outside water pressure (.44 psi per foot of depth)

On dry land, the small amount of pressure a bungee pushes with will cause a full bladder to empty faster than one without a bungee, but, under water, so long as the bungee is not stretched to its limits (and who fills their BC that much underwater anyways) then you are not going to notice any faster of a leak bungee vs not... Even if you had the bladder completely full and the Bungee was pushing with so much force, when the bungee wasn't fully stretched, which means about 3/4 full bladder, then your accelerated air loss theory gets shot down again...

moral of the story - water pressure overcomes bungee cord pressure...

Aussie
08-27-2008, 07:10
The only thing that I have a problem with the 34lbs wing is the all elastic cover isnt as hard wearing and has less protection for the bladder inside than with the other wing covers with 1000 denier nylon. I have two 34lbs wings btw. They might be replaced with the my new 24lbs wing.

Aussie

dmainou
08-27-2008, 07:22
I normally don't remove my wing from the BP but it is handy to be able to quickly do it (and maybe install a bigger one to go for a double tank dive). An elastic wing is a failure point in case of a punctured wing as the air goes out quicker.


I'd LOVE to see the proof of that...

what kind of pressure do you think bungees are capable of.. .5 psi maybe... There is no way in the world you can tell me that submerged under water, that a bungee is going to provide more pressure than outside water pressure (.44 psi per foot of depth)

On dry land, the small amount of pressure a bungee pushes with will cause a full bladder to empty faster than one without a bungee, but, under water, so long as the bungee is not stretched to its limits (and who fills their BC that much underwater anyways) then you are not going to notice any faster of a leak bungee vs not... Even if you had the bladder completely full and the Bungee was pushing with so much force, when the bungee wasn't fully stretched, which means about 3/4 full bladder, then your accelerated air loss theory gets shot down again...

moral of the story - water pressure overcomes bungee cord pressure...


Proably you're right.... It sounds logical.

Having said that, I don't like bungies. I like the elastic wing but wouldn't use one with bungies.:smiley2:

As I said before, if I had my day again, I would probably buy the Oycheq Mach V Extreme. The outer layer is extremely tough, there are no bungies and the form factor is quite good.

DOWNDEEP73
08-27-2008, 14:30
I have a new Zeagle BP/W with the 35lb Scout Wing. The dump on mine is located on my left side facing towards me when wearing it. I can simpily reach down and pull it easily. I have never actually seen a Zeagle Wing with the Dump facing outward.........That is Strange!

CompuDude
08-27-2008, 16:06
I normally don't remove my wing from the BP but it is handy to be able to quickly do it (and maybe install a bigger one to go for a double tank dive). An elastic wing is a failure point in case of a punctured wing as the air goes out quicker.


I'd LOVE to see the proof of that...

what kind of pressure do you think bungees are capable of.. .5 psi maybe... There is no way in the world you can tell me that submerged under water, that a bungee is going to provide more pressure than outside water pressure (.44 psi per foot of depth)

On dry land, the small amount of pressure a bungee pushes with will cause a full bladder to empty faster than one without a bungee, but, under water, so long as the bungee is not stretched to its limits (and who fills their BC that much underwater anyways) then you are not going to notice any faster of a leak bungee vs not... Even if you had the bladder completely full and the Bungee was pushing with so much force, when the bungee wasn't fully stretched, which means about 3/4 full bladder, then your accelerated air loss theory gets shot down again...

moral of the story - water pressure overcomes bungee cord pressure...

No, sorry, you're wrong. It's not exactly going to be a monster gusher, but applying any pressure to a punctured wing is going to squeeze it and help the air flow out faster.

It's debatable whether it is going to cause a real problem, but it's not really debatable that the air will come out faster when assisted by bungee squeeze than without.

MSilvia
08-27-2008, 16:36
It's debatable whether it is going to cause a real problem, but it's not really debatable that the air will come out faster when assisted by bungee squeeze than without.
Oh, c'mon... everything is debatable. What we need here is PROOF! Maybe it's time for a video to test the old BWOD myth?

Splitlip
08-27-2008, 17:42
It's debatable whether it is going to cause a real problem, but it's not really debatable that the air will come out faster when assisted by bungee squeeze than without.
Oh, c'mon... everything is debatable. What we need here is PROOF! Maybe it's time for a video to test the old BWOD myth?

Bondage wings
http://www.divernet.com/data/images/1205_iconic_kit_04.jpghttp://www.divernet.com/data/images/1205_iconic_kit_03.jpg

Note the Dive Rite has no OPV visible.
http://www.divernet.com/data/images/1205_iconic_kit_05.jpg Oops!

http://www.divernet.com/data/images/1205_iconic_kit_07.jpg

Aussie
08-27-2008, 18:53
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/MARKGR%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpghttp://www.zeagle.com/clientuploads/Jim_Fox_Photos/BCDs/Scout_BC_2007.gif

This is the Zeagle Scout picture which I stole from the Zeagle website. The Scout has the 24lbs horseshoe wing which I currently have on my backplate. It has two rear dump valves which face away from the back of the diver which you can kind of see in this pick (see the toggle which is on the other side of the wing)

Even tho I dont use the rear dumps as the inflator does the job for me, it makes sense to have the rear dump valves facing away. When I diver is going to use the rear dumps to remove air out of the wing they have to go slightly head down to allow the trapped air to go the rear of the wing. Having the rear dumps at the top of the wing (when horizontal) allows for a more effecient way of removing the trapped air. Also remembering that since its a horseshoe shape wing its more effective to use both dumps (if your have two dumps that is) at the same time. True you can just use one dump valve and try and move all the air from one side of the wing to the other but this takes a little bit of effort. Personally thats why I use the inflator as its quick and easy and you can do it with one hand which is important when your carrying a large camera.

There isnt really an issue with the dump valves getting caught against the tank underwater as the wing should have little or no air in it anyway.

Cheers Mark

Aussie
08-27-2008, 19:02
Bondage wings
http://www.divernet.com/data/images/1205_iconic_kit_04.jpghttp://www.divernet.com/data/images/1205_iconic_kit_03.jpg

Note the Dive Rite has no OPV visible.

Bondage wings? It made me think of rubber, latex, stainless steel, and rope.............me bad

I meant when used in techincal diving of course :smiley2:

Funny you posted this rih as I have seen a guy dive something like this yesterday on a single ally. I called it El Taco Grande. 100lbs OMS wing on an ally???????????????? He didnt get the joke.

Aussie

dmainou
08-30-2008, 19:29
zeagle is letting me do an exchange for another slightly smaller wing. why in the world would they design it that way?? not logical


Hey Mate, pls let us know how you went with the new wing once you have tested it....

I presume its the same wing I have.

Hopefully you'll be happy, I am.:smiley2:

dmainou
09-12-2008, 03:46
zeagle is letting me do an exchange for another slightly smaller wing. why in the world would they design it that way?? not logical


So, how's your new wing? :smiley20:

Black-Gorrilla
09-12-2008, 13:33
Bondage wings
http://www.divernet.com/data/images/1205_iconic_kit_04.jpghttp://www.divernet.com/data/images/1205_iconic_kit_03.jpg

Note the Dive Rite has no OPV visible.

Bondage wings? It made me think of rubber, latex, stainless steel, and rope.............me bad

I meant when used in techincal diving of course :smiley2:

Funny you posted this rih as I have seen a guy dive something like this yesterday on a single ally. I called it El Taco Grande. 100lbs OMS wing on an ally???????????????? He didnt get the joke.

Aussie

That wing is horrible (oms 94#) the bungees trap air between each other, so it's a mission to get the air out...

Aussie
09-13-2008, 08:07
Bondage wings
http://www.divernet.com/data/images/1205_iconic_kit_04.jpghttp://www.divernet.com/data/images/1205_iconic_kit_03.jpg

Note the Dive Rite has no OPV visible.

Bondage wings? It made me think of rubber, latex, stainless steel, and rope.............me bad

I meant when used in techincal diving of course :smiley2:

Funny you posted this rih as I have seen a guy dive something like this yesterday on a single ally. I called it El Taco Grande. 100lbs OMS wing on an ally???????????????? He didnt get the joke.

Aussie

That wing is horrible (oms 94#) the bungees trap air between each other, so it's a mission to get the air out...

Its a good wing for twins with mutliple stages. Anyting else its just an over kill.

Aussie