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View Full Version : Tank fills a rip off



Duckydiver
08-25-2008, 16:55
Propane tanks that is. What really chaps may ass is that when you get a propane fill around here (Long Island) at the hardware store, they charge you for a 20 lb fill. Fine, but what if your tank has a little left in it, 5 lbs or so, they still charge you full price. (Which is around 17.50). So ist the day befor a family bbq and I want my tank toped off and how much for just a half tank, thats right, 17.50!!

Now I usualy try to get my tankes down to nothing but the flame is definetly deminished at 1/4 tank. So that idea is out.

Ok Im done, thanks for reading.

Gombessa
08-25-2008, 16:58
Fine, but what if your tank has a little left in it, 5 lbs or so, they still charge you full price. (Which is around 17.50). So ist the day befor a family bbq and I want my tank toped off and how much for just a half tank, thats right, 17.50!!

A lot of places fill scuba tanks that way too. I once brought in a set of doubles to be topped off with 300psi, and got charged the full price to fill doubles (which was 2x the price to fill singles). I don't go to that LDS for fills anymore, I drive a little further to a place that doesn't sweat the small stuff.

MSilvia
08-25-2008, 16:59
Sounds like you need a booster... turn 4 of those 1/4 tanks into one full one! Just don't blow yourself up. ;)

trekkindave
08-25-2008, 16:59
Yea.. that deffinately sucks.. Its quite a rip off that they dont pro rate the tank fill.

ScubaToys Larry
08-25-2008, 17:02
Not to fully justify it - but keep in mind, the labor time to check hydro and vis, hook it up, fill it, un-hook it, and ring you out for it is going to be the same if a scuba tank gets 3 psi of air, or 3000.

Again - just something to keep in mind. With LP - yes, there is a gas cost in there as well - and around here we have gas places that just charge you for however many pounds you put in.

MSilvia
08-25-2008, 17:09
around here we have gas places that just charge you for however many pounds you put in.
There you go Ducky... head over to AirCo and see how much they'll charge you for a T-bottle of propane. Problem solved.

Gombessa
08-25-2008, 17:13
Not to fully justify it - but keep in mind, the labor time to check hydro and vis, hook it up, fill it, un-hook it, and ring you out for it is going to be the same if a scuba tank gets 3 psi of air, or 3000.


Yep, that would make sense if there was a "floor" price, or even if the shops only did a two-tiered "partial" vs. "full" fill. But charging full price regardless implies there is zero gas cost, which with air you could potentially justify, but then, hooking up, unhooking, labor time, and ringing out doesn't really explain why, for instance, double 72s would get charged more than a 130cf single. I know you said it doesn't fully justify everything, but there's a sense of manifest unfairness when a top-off is charged full price.

I think my position is really that this kind of thing is a small deal for the shop that can make a big impression on a customer.

ScubaToys Larry
08-25-2008, 17:22
And I agree.. you would not see a charge for popping a few hundred psi in a set of doubles at our place... as long as you carried them back! :smiley36:

dirtydon
08-25-2008, 17:27
look into local weld shop rent 100# tank for summer aroud here 5-10 dollars a month fill 60 dollars need to buy longer hose.just don't plan on movin it.

trekkindave
08-25-2008, 17:33
See thats why you guys need to franchise out here on Long Island. I would have to set up a partial direct deposit into the scubatoys bank direct from my paycheck if you guys were local.

I've said for years (well since i had my own disposable income for my toys) that I would gladly pay slightly more for great customer service at an LDS who was straight forward and helped out with the little stuff like this.

If I were to do a local shore dive and decide 5-10 minutes into my dive that the viz was crap and scrubbed the mission, it would be nice if the LDS would give me a break on the partial, LESS THEN 500-700psi fill. Its like less then 100 breaths and it cost me 8 dollars for a fill? Its a small price to pay, but still ... go through 5 dives a week and that could be expensive. Saving a few bucks here and there would make me feel better about giving them money for other things.

IMHO, something like that would make me feel better when it was service time on my regs too. If he said i needed a part, then i probably needed it. I have heard horror stories of people needing complete rebuilds on relatively new regs that were purchased at a dive shop that was different from the one that was doing the service..

Heck my own LDS whom i was partial and loyal to, almost tried to stick it to me with a reg set up by telling me that he had to service it before i could use it on my open water check out dive

BlowingBubbles
08-26-2008, 11:13
Hear, hear!

Hutto77
08-26-2008, 11:25
See I don't really have a whole lot of faith and or zero trust in my local dive shop. The wife and I had a truley horrid experance with gettign out openwarter certs. You don't allways get what you over pay for I guess, sence our openwater cost us $300 each and my advanced is only going to be around $200. And sence the topic is tank fills and I'm still new to diving what is 2500 psi the norm when renting tanks? Just wonderign because that is where ares tend to come in at.

thagar
08-26-2008, 14:51
I think mine are usually betwenn 2500 and 3000 PSI.

blcard
08-26-2008, 19:53
So far always 3000 psi.

Could you imagine if gas stations charged only by the tank not the gallon?:smiley11:

Duckydiver
08-26-2008, 21:01
Could you imagine if gas stations charged only by the tank not the gallon?:smiley11:

That is precisley what I was thinking while tey were ripping me off for a propane fill. And then I told myself aloud.

"If I think about this any further, I'm gona have a stroke"

trekkindave
08-26-2008, 21:07
LOL yup.. but still its off to the LDS tomorrow for a top off on my 2100 psi tank so i can have a full tank for thursday's dive..... im just glad im not paying for hyperfiltered air or nitrox yet

numberfivedock
08-27-2008, 19:26
I used to fill the same way about partial fills untill I started filling them myself. It cost the LDS almost the same to put air in a tank no matter what the starting pressure is. They are not making any money on any fill.

Rileybri
08-27-2008, 19:32
Hell I bought a 20 fill card at my LDS this spring and I cant get them to punch the dam thing! I have gotten around 20 fills from them this summer and I keep getting "Aww don't worry about it, we'll get ya on the next one." :smiley32::smiley32:

Aussie
08-27-2008, 20:19
Propane tanks that is. What really chaps may ass is that when you get a propane fill around here (Long Island) at the hardware store, they charge you for a 20 lb fill. Fine, but what if your tank has a little left in it, 5 lbs or so, they still charge you full price. (Which is around 17.50). So ist the day befor a family bbq and I want my tank toped off and how much for just a half tank, thats right, 17.50!!

Now I usualy try to get my tankes down to nothing but the flame is definetly deminished at 1/4 tank. So that idea is out.

Ok Im done, thanks for reading.

Simple buy two tanks. Run one until its completely out and then use the other full one. Get the empty one filled for the next time. The money you saved in getting a 100% fill everytime would pay for your second tank. Never have the chance of running out unless you forgot to fill that second tank.

Aussie

JahJahwarrior
08-29-2008, 12:04
I used to fill the same way about partial fills untill I started filling them myself. It cost the LDS almost the same to put air in a tank no matter what the starting pressure is. They are not making any money on any fill.

There are some costs which do not vary, such as the labor involved with moving tanks, hook them up to a whip, and checking VIP and Hydro. This can be reduced by having the customer perform the first two above operations, which are both extraordinarily simple and just about anyone can do it.

However, if I don't take as much air (nx, o2, argon, mix, whatever) from their banks, then they don't have to run their compressor as long to replace what I took. Granted, this does depend somewhat on the pressure range of the fill, but simply put, the cost to replace the air that you took varies depending on how much you took :D

And there are MANY LDS's which ARE making money on every fill. There are also many that make no money, or who lose money. But it is simply outrageous to believe that no LDS is making money on fills.



That said, I think the advice about buying two propane tanks is simply genius!!

cbope
08-29-2008, 23:11
Back to the OP's topic about filling propane tanks... I was pretty shocked the first time I swapped out a propane cylinder here in Finland for my gas grill... it cost me 28 (full tank exchange). The current US dollar to euro exchange hovers around 1:1.5 at the moment... do the math. (it's more than 40 bucks)

Geez... you damn Americans always bitching about gas prices... when we are paying at least double in Europe!!! :smiley36:

(ok... I'm an American ex-pat, I admit it!!!)

trekkindave
08-30-2008, 11:28
I guess it pay to be in the USA. gas prices may be high... but i would rather live here then any other place in the world... no quesions asked.


Ill pay full price for fills. Ill pay full price for propane. Ill pay my taxes. and I will complain about it... why

because I'm an American and those who came before me have fought to keep my right to complain about things safe.

Duckydiver
08-30-2008, 20:49
I'm not complaining about the price (not now at least). I am concerned about not getting a full 20 lb fill for full price.

Warren
08-30-2008, 21:07
Weird, all the propane places here charge you for the actual gallons to fill the tank.

So topping off is no big deal.

tndiverdude
08-30-2008, 21:30
Down here in Jeff city TN ther ar some strange rules abotu filling propane tanks. If you are driving a hatchback, small car, or other sub compact vehicle of any style the propane place will refuse to fill the tank. Some strange law about danger.
But you can trade in your Blue Rhino style tank at Walmart for 16 bucks.
here they charge by the cubic foot.
Jimmy

Flatliner
08-31-2008, 08:04
We have place that do both. The thing is, I pay less for an exchange at the drug store than I do for a 3/4 fill at the fill place (U-Haul)

Duckydiver
08-31-2008, 19:57
Down here in Jeff city TN ther ar some strange rules abotu filling propane tanks. If you are driving a hatchback, small car, or other sub compact vehicle of any style the propane place will refuse to fill the tank. Some strange law about danger.
But you can trade in your Blue Rhino style tank at Walmart for 16 bucks.
here they charge by the cubic foot.
Jimmy

Actualy, here in NY we have similar laws, I think you can only transpot 50 lbs or less, and they have to be in the back seat, not the trunk.

mrbheagney
08-31-2008, 20:11
Fine about the gas but you are still using someones time, using their equipment and receiving a service. It's hardly the fault of the vendor if you take your tank back with gas still in. Are you sure you haven't been sniffing a bit too much propane.

Duckydiver
09-01-2008, 10:18
Fine about the gas but you are still using someones time, using their equipment and receiving a service. It's hardly the fault of the vendor if you take your tank back with gas still in. Are you sure you haven't been sniffing a bit too much propane.
It's not that I've benn sniffing too much, It's that I haven't been sniffing enough!!

pir8
09-01-2008, 10:33
See I don't really have a whole lot of faith and or zero trust in my local dive shop. The wife and I had a truley horrid experance with gettign out openwarter certs. You don't allways get what you over pay for I guess, sence our openwater cost us $300 each and my advanced is only going to be around $200. And sence the topic is tank fills and I'm still new to diving what is 2500 psi the norm when renting tanks? Just wonderign because that is where ares tend to come in at.
There is a lot less time required by the instructor to do AOW compared to your OW cert.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
09-01-2008, 12:43
Propane tanks that is. What really chaps may ass is that when you get a propane fill around here (Long Island) at the hardware store, they charge you for a 20 lb fill. Fine, but what if your tank has a little left in it, 5 lbs or so, they still charge you full price. (Which is around 17.50). So ist the day befor a family bbq and I want my tank toped off and how much for just a half tank, thats right, 17.50!!

Now I usualy try to get my tankes down to nothing but the flame is definetly deminished at 1/4 tank. So that idea is out.

Ok Im done, thanks for reading.

Simple buy two tanks. Run one until its completely out and then use the other full one. Get the empty one filled for the next time. The money you saved in getting a 100% fill everytime would pay for your second tank. Never have the chance of running out unless you forgot to fill that second tank.

Aussie


That's what I do.

trekkindave
09-01-2008, 12:46
Except for when you you want to do a two tank day... then you are out of luck.

Aussie
09-02-2008, 07:50
Except for when you you want to do a two tank day... then you are out of luck.

If your doing two tanks a day maybe you should buy bigger or two more tanks. Two tanks on and two in reserve.:smiley20:

Aussie

BlowingBubbles
09-02-2008, 11:12
Better yet, just own your own LSD. Do all of your own fills for free. Brilliance!

bane51031
01-07-2009, 12:24
I keep two spares on hand at home and at the camper, I burn em down before I refill.

Roughwater
01-07-2009, 17:19
In regards to air tank fills, just keep in mind while the air might be free - compressing it isn't. The first 50bar of a tank doesn't take a huge amount (if you're going direct of a comperssor, etc), but the last 50 does in regards to wear / tear, etc on the equipment due to the increased pressure.

I don't know the figures for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if the last 70 bar fill of a tank (or even less) requires more energy than the first 140+ bar of a tank in regards to the compressors work, etc.

It's easy just to look at 50 bar being 50 bar, but it isn't just that simple.

I know some friends with a dive trailer with a compressor they tow around with them. They'll do fills for anyone. Love the sign on the back:

Air fills - $8
Top ups - $10.

I never ask them for a topup. :smiley36:

chet
01-15-2009, 22:37
I guess that's the price you pay for living in NY..here in Canada they just charge us for the amount of propane it takes to top up the tank ..as they should.

kjvander
01-16-2009, 12:02
This is why i have two tanks....one full one in the garage and the one on my grill....when one runs out i switch and get the other filled...

acamato
01-16-2009, 13:07
I have two tanks. Having the second is great when you forget to turn off the grill after letting the grease burn off....

I will eventually convert my grill to natural gas and hook it up to my house gas line.