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anoop
08-26-2008, 08:31
What is the advantage of diving in warm water rather than cold water?

No Misses
08-26-2008, 08:41
What is the advantage of diving in warm water rather than cold water?

I had to refrain from making a wise-guy answer. Here are the top things that I can think of.
1. You do not need a wetsuit (or at least as thick of one). This means that you do not have to carry as much ballast (lead). It is easier to maintain proper bouyancy, without a wetsuit.
2. You are not freezing your butt off!
3. There tends to be more marine life in tropical waters.
4. Did I mention that you don't freeze your butt off?

mwhities
08-26-2008, 09:23
Cold water can cause more anxiety than warm water. One is less relaxed in cold water than in warm since your body reacts in a more defensive mode.

MSilvia
08-26-2008, 11:05
Offgassing can be slower when you're cold, so it's more important to use a conservative dive profile if you dive cold water. If you get cold, it can increase your breathing rate and decrease your dexterity and situational awareness.

fisheater
08-26-2008, 11:15
Typically, you can SEE cold water. Warm water is just so darned clear. :-)

MSilvia
08-26-2008, 11:27
There tends to be more marine life in tropical waters.

Typically, you can SEE cold water.
Actually, what reduces the vis in cold water tends to be all the marine life suspended in it. There may not be as many pretty hard corals or manta rays, but there is definately a crapload of marine life in cold water. If you consider all the larvae, plankton, sand lance, krill, jellys, etc, I'd venture to guess the biomass in cold ocean water probably exceeds that in warm water by an order of magnitude.

After all The Census of Marine Life (http://www.coml.org/) estimates 90% of marine biomass is microbial.

Jack Hammer
08-26-2008, 12:54
I've noticed my air last much much longer in warm water. It's easier to do longer dives due to less equipment and weight you're pushing along. I also really like not having to wear a thick hood to keep my head warm. I find a thick hood to be constricting, blocks my hearing of sounds underwater, and really makes me feel more confined.

Jack

thor
08-26-2008, 13:12
Other than carrying more weight in cold (which is a big one for my wife), warm water usually doesn't require use of a hood and gloves. Wearing a hood can sometimes make it more difficult to equalize, and also make it difficult to hear your computer beeping.

MSilvia
08-26-2008, 13:33
Wearing a hood can make it difficult to hear your computer beeping.
It also makes it more difficult to hear other peoples' computers beeping. I might have to bring mine next time I dive in warm water!

Jack Hammer
08-26-2008, 14:00
Wearing a hood can make it difficult to hear your computer beeping.
It also makes it more difficult to hear other peoples' computers beeping. I might have to bring mine next time I dive in warm water!
When I was in Roatan our DM used a stainless steel rod to point at things and tap his tank to get our attention. He used the rod sparingly. The last day a group of 3 divers with the same rods dove with us and used them what seemed almost non-stop like they were tapping out morse code or something amongst themselves. It was really annoying and I actually wished i'd brought my thick, muffling, Lake Michigan cold water hood that day.

Jack

Warren
08-26-2008, 16:19
Having learned, and only dove cold water, I can't wait to hit Bonaire! :smiley20:

brandon
08-26-2008, 20:58
Warm water is easier to dive in, but cold water is more fun =)

-B

Duckydiver
08-26-2008, 21:47
The advantage for me in diving cold water is a savings of about $1500!!
About the cost to go the the caribean for a week.

gthomas
08-27-2008, 13:48
I tend to think more clearly in warm water. Like soaking in a big bath tub-so relaxing.

Travelnsj
08-31-2008, 01:16
The only diving I do is 82 or better and only wear a shorty......I am a WWW!

James1010
11-13-2008, 13:42
I live in Mexico and do a lot of diving. You don't need a wet suit like everyone has said and the biggest thing is you are comfortable. In cold water there is more opportunity to cramp up if you don't have the right gear. In warm you don't have a hood, gloves, and you have more movement to move around.

Steph_Canada
12-27-2008, 11:33
I did both, and for me the big difference is how relax a warm water dive is compared to cold water. I'm not just talking about when you are underwater, but the prep for it too.

Diving in cold water require xtra prep, especially in winter, where you need a decent spot (warm) to get dress, be careful getting in and out and putting on all that extra stuff

Once underwater, you don't have the same freedom of movement since you are wearing a hood, tick gloves, heavy suit.

I found cold water dive more technical and challenging than warm dive

Can't dive right now, all the lakes and river are frozen... and it's minus 10C outside :smiley11:

mm2002
01-10-2009, 19:45
I agree that warmer water is much more relaxing and enjoyable. Depends on what you call warm though. To me, if it's in the high 80's, it's too warm. My favorite water temps are from 70-80 F. No matter the temp, I always wear a full suit, gloves, and a beanie. I like the protection. To me, 72 water, 3mm full suit, thin reef gloves, 1mm beanie, and I'm in heaven!

Travelnsj
01-10-2009, 19:55
83 to 85 degree water....I'm in heaven:smiley20:

Chocoholic
01-10-2009, 21:48
83 to 85 degree water....I'm in heaven:smiley20:
I'm with you, the warmer the better!

MSilvia
01-12-2009, 11:55
In cold water there is more opportunity to cramp up if you don't have the right gear.
Doing anything in the cold, regardless of whether you're above or below water requires proper exposure protection and gear. Doing it without is foolhardy, and can have much more serious consequences than cramping.

In that light, James 1010 raises an important point... warm water is much more forgiving of the poorly prepared.

cummings66
01-12-2009, 13:11
I'm with you, the warmer the better!

I did a dive in 83 degree water, it was the most uncomfortable dive I ever did in my life. I thought I was a lobster being boiled alive. I'm much happier with temps in the upper 60's or low 70's.

I think gear is all that matters for each temp, dress right and that's the difference. Equipment and attitude.

Travelnsj
01-12-2009, 13:13
I cannot imagine diving in anything more than a 1mm shorty!

MSilvia
01-12-2009, 13:52
I cannot imagine diving in anything more than a 1mm shorty!
I cannot imagine limiting my diving to places where the water is warm enough to do that.

Travelnsj
01-12-2009, 23:01
I cannot imagine diving in anything more than a 1mm shorty!
I cannot imagine limiting my diving to places where the water is warm enough to do that.

I limit myself to Indonesia, Micronesia, Caribbean, Hawaii, South Pacific , Red Sea etc....I'll try live with it:smiley20:....love that 82 to 85 degree water.

lund0485
01-13-2009, 11:20
I cant stand diving cold water after my first warm water trip

MSilvia
01-13-2009, 12:03
I limit myself to Indonesia, Micronesia, Caribbean, Hawaii, South Pacific , Red Sea etc....I'll try live with it:smiley20:....love that 82 to 85 degree water.
I'd gladly dive in those places too, but I'd be fooling myself if I thought I'd be content to ONLY do those dives. Suit yourself.

Travelnsj
01-13-2009, 12:46
I limit myself to Indonesia, Micronesia, Caribbean, Hawaii, South Pacific , Red Sea etc....I'll try live with it:smiley20:....love that 82 to 85 degree water.
I'd gladly dive in those places too, but I'd be fooling myself if I thought I'd be content to ONLY do those dives. Suit yourself.

I have dove SoCal...years ago...and that is cold water....Never saw anything like you will see in Raja Ampat, Palau, Lembeh etc etc.....I have heard in the Seattle area the giant Octopus is very cool.....Guess I will see it on DVD!

chinacat46
01-13-2009, 13:02
I prefer warm water but won't rule out a place just because the water temp is below 82.

Travelnsj
01-13-2009, 13:22
I prefer warm water but won't rule out a place just because the water temp is below 82.

So where do you think has good Cold Water diving that is as good or better than Raja Ampat, Palau, Fakarava etc etc.

And when I say 82 or better....In the last few years I have hit 78-79 degree thermoclines like I did in Wakatobi!....but I usually get out of those Thermoclines pretty quickly...LOL

MSilvia
01-13-2009, 14:14
So where do you think has good Cold Water diving that is as good or better than Raja Ampat, Palau, Fakarava etc etc.
It's a different kind of diving, so it's difficult to compare. As a for instance though, I rather like being able to camp out on the Boston harbor islands with a few buddies for $5 each, spend a nice August day doing a little underwater hunting, and spend the evening having a clam bake on the beach and feasting on the lobster, crab, scallops, mussels, and/or fish we caught during the day.

It's also rather nice having nearby access to countless shipwrecks (passenger steamers, U-boats, a cargo ship that went down loaded with zoo animals, etc), fantastic shore dives, and a National Marine Sanctuary. While we don't have mantas, we can dive with seals, blue sharks, and may even see a whale, basking shark, or mola mola from time to time.

Not only is the diving good, but it's very convenient. I can wake up in the morning with no plans, get my tanks filled, and be done with two dives before lunch. If you woke up in the morning wanting to dive, how long would it take you to get to Raja Ampat and back, and how would the cost of the trip compare to the $2 I spend on gas to get to the beach or dock? I don't dispute that warm water diving is great fun, but sometimes I just want to get a nice night dive in on my way home from work, you know?

My local waters aside, there's great cold diving in the great lakes, the Pacific northwest, downeast Maine, British Isles, and (if you consider the mid-atlantic cold) amazing wreck dives off Jersey and NC.

I'm not saying it's better diving, I'm just saying it's really good, and WAY more convenient. By diving cold water, I can dive as a lifestyle rather than as a vacation excursion.

chinacat46
01-13-2009, 15:07
I prefer warm water but won't rule out a place just because the water temp is below 82.

So where do you think has good Cold Water diving that is as good or better than Raja Ampat, Palau, Fakarava etc etc.

And when I say 82 or better....In the last few years I have hit 78-79 degree thermoclines like I did in Wakatobi!....but I usually get out of those Thermoclines pretty quickly...LOL

As Matt said it would be different type of diving. But one place you keep telling me to go to is Cocos Island in Costa Rica. Suppose to be some of the best shark diving in the world.

Travelnsj
01-13-2009, 15:08
If you woke up in the morning wanting to dive, how long would it take you to get to Raja Ampat and back, and how would the cost of the trip compare to the $2 I spend on gas to get to the beach or dock?

It takes a couple of days to get to Raja Ampat and definitely more than $2.....LOL....If I am in Raja Ampat...10 minutes and your at Cape Kri diving amongst the largest bio-diversity on this planet or places like Palau to have your reef hook hooked in with a 3 knot current in your face and watching a Zoo go by....or swimming against a 2 to 3 knot current getting up to a plateau and see Grey reef sharks as far as you can see in the 100'+ vis....all 82 to 85 degree water.

I have been to North Carolina and found the wreck diving to be excellent (actually I liked it better than Truk!) and 80 to 84 degree waters in August.

So how do I compare the $2 spent on gas or the $5 park admission.....I'm headed to Palau and the Philippines next month and back to Raja Ampat in November!:smiley20:....sorry never going to convert me!....LOL

MSilvia
01-13-2009, 15:32
....sorry never going to convert me!....LOL
I'm not trying to convert you, and I'm not saying the diving in locations like you mentioned isn't superb. What I am saying is that with such fantastic diving opportunities at my doorstep, there's no way in heck I'm going to ONLY dive when I'm in those places. I'm sold on the many wonderful upsides of warm water diving, but I also know that cold water offers some of the best dives in the world.

bassplayer
01-13-2009, 15:39
I prefer warm water but won't rule out a place just because the water temp is below 82.

So where do you think has good Cold Water diving that is as good or better than Raja Ampat, Palau, Fakarava etc etc.

And when I say 82 or better....In the last few years I have hit 78-79 degree thermoclines like I did in Wakatobi!....but I usually get out of those Thermoclines pretty quickly...LOL



I am totally green with envy....I am heading down to Jupiter Beach, Fl soon to do my first Ocean dive in 72F water with my 2mm shorty....and I am thinking that this is paradise!

Travelnsj
01-13-2009, 15:45
I prefer warm water but won't rule out a place just because the water temp is below 82.

So where do you think has good Cold Water diving that is as good or better than Raja Ampat, Palau, Fakarava etc etc.

And when I say 82 or better....In the last few years I have hit 78-79 degree thermoclines like I did in Wakatobi!....but I usually get out of those Thermoclines pretty quickly...LOL

As Matt said it would be different type of diving. But one place you keep telling me to go to is Cocos Island in Costa Rica. Suppose to be some of the best shark diving in the world.

Chuck....I realize it is a different type of diving....but I have never read or heard anything that cold water diving is better than warm water....just different!...and to me...miserable diving....I know I was when I used to dive in it.

Now you are Drysuit certified correct?....so I would love to read your trip report and see a DVD of the diving with the Octopus in the Seattle area:smiley20:....I hear that is some of the best Cold water diving in the world.

MSilvia
01-13-2009, 16:29
I have never read or heard anything that cold water diving is better than warm water....just different!
Here you go then:
There are plenty of dives for which cold water is MUCH better than warm water. In fact, for many kinds of diving, cold water is a necessity. It all depends on what you want to get out of the dive.

Travelnsj
01-13-2009, 17:00
There are plenty of dives for which cold water is MUCH better than warm water.

Where? .....And I do not consider the Galapagos really cold water. Plus it does not have the marine Biodiversity that the Philippines or Raja Ampat does.

MSilvia
01-14-2009, 09:49
There are plenty of dives for which cold water is MUCH better than warm water.

Where? .....And I do not consider the Galapagos really cold water. Plus it does not have the marine Biodiversity that the Philippines or Raja Ampat does.
It's not about where, it's about what. If you're looking for biodiversity, that's great, but it's only one way to define "better".

If you're looking to end your dive with a giant bag of sea scallops, Palau is a terrible dive location because water temperatures above 70 degrees kill scallops. If you love ice diving, Raja Ampat is a poor choice. If you want whale sharks, don't look in Alaska. If you want to catch "maine" lobsters, don't look in the Caribbean. If you want 150' visibility, don't look for it in Boston harbor. If you want diverse tropical fish, don't look for them in a fresh water cenote, or you'll be disappointed. I don't believe any dive site is "better" than another in general... you need context. Better in what way?

In my opinion, the diving is best where you can best meet your dive objectives. My dives often have little to do with looking at the pretty fishies, so biodiversity has little to do with how I define "better". I like diving shipwrecks that haven't been visited by divers before. To me, that's a big part of a great and memorable dive. Water temperature and biodiversity don't have a lot to do with what makes a dive location better for that, although it could be argued that the more challenging an area is for divers and navigators, the more likely there are to be virgin wrecks. I also have buddies who are pretty single-minded about underwater hunting. If a site has no lobsters or scallops (or if they aren't allowed to take them), they could care less how many other kinds of creatures live there.

mm2002
01-14-2009, 20:03
Yep. There's no such thing as one water temp being better for diving than another. It entirely depends on your objective. I stated that I have a "favorite" water temp range for my comfort, but dives don't always fall within that zone. I don't have enough diving under my belt to give any extraordinary examples, but one of my favorite dives to date was going to the bottom of Mermet Springs. Nothing down there really, no critters, but it's very cold, dark, and kinda erie (especially if they have Pink Floyd playing!). Just being there made it one of my most memorable dives to date.

CompuDude
01-15-2009, 13:44
I love warm water diving. But if I had to limit my dives to trips to warm water locations, I would go nuts! Even if I had the budget to schlep off to the other side of the world any time I felt like it, I live in Southern California. That means that if I want to go diving later today, or tonight, hopping on a plane to warm water simply isn't an option. Maybe I could pack up and catch a last-minute flight to Coz or La Paz, but that's the closest warm water location. Spending two days on a plane (one day there, one day back), no matter how much money I have, is too much time wasted, IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the bio-diversity of warm water locations, and the chance to see life other than what I usually see. But until I move to the gold triangle, as long as I choose to live in SoCal, and want to dive no less frequently than once every two weeks (preferably several times per week, year round, conditions permitting), there's just no way I could limit myself to warm water diving only.

I have a drysuit and know how to use it, and I live in SoCal. Thus, the pool is open nearly 300+ days out of the year. (only storms and high seas can keep me from diving, since temps are never an issue)

Travelnsj
01-15-2009, 13:58
Well kinda like Matt says each to there own.....I had a business in Catalina for over 20 years....maybe have 30 dives there and 20 more around SoCal....Once I got my toes in that warm Aussie and Palau waters:smiley20:....Have not dove SoCal since 02....I'll spend the $$ and time for that 82 to 85 degree water to have Sharks in my face and seeing things like that Rhinopias Paddleflap!

MSilvia
01-15-2009, 14:03
Don't get me wrong... I want very much to dive Palau. I'm just not willing to put my diving on hold until I get there when there is so much fun to be had at home. Like CompuDude, I dive dry, so comfort is a non-issue.

Travelnsj
01-15-2009, 14:17
I have never dove Dry....I have a 6.5mm....but putting that heavy wet suit, gloves, hood etc etc on...I felt like a mummy. Then after all that work to get into the water and the payback was such a Yawn for me....and yes I have seen the big black Sea Bass, Bat rays, Sharks, Octopus, small schools of fish etc etc in my 50 dives in Socal!....I've seen that much in one dive in Palau or Raja Ampat:smiley20:

I was going going to give up diving until I went to Palau my first time in 99....I saw the light :smiley31:...now I'm a warm water only diver:smiley20:

MSilvia
01-15-2009, 14:34
Nothing wrong with that, so long as you're having fun!

DiveRite
01-21-2009, 10:16
Warm vs. Cold

Warm water is an absolute joke....I found little challenge in diving in warm waters...that being said, beautiful colors and amazing cenotes.

I dive cold...for instance last night I did a night dive and got hove at 12:45 AM. The water was 37 degrees F. I had my DUI CLX 450 Trilam suit with DUI XM 450 undergarments and had a great dive.

Cold water still has the corals and anenomes....I dive the Bay of Fundy in Canada (worlds highest tides) and those tides bring an enormous amount of aquatic life.

You want a challenge dive COLD water with 6-7 knot tides pulling you around....get your skills down pat in these waters and it's a breeze in warm water.

But I think the purpose of the question was related to differences in diving warm/cold as applied to Junior Divers...hence the group.

Cold water contributes to number of things:
more difficult offgassing
more thermal protect (and if not done properly less dexterity)
more task loading
greater air consumption
***this is just to name a few

That being said with the proper instructor and pratice it is a blast.


Enjoy!!!

MSilvia
01-21-2009, 11:09
Warm water is an absolute joke....I found little challenge in diving in warm waters.
No, it's not a challenging environment for those used to the cold, but "absolute joke" may be going a bit far. People still do get themselves killed diving in warm water, so some caution is always prudent... even if the dive is one you could do in your sleep.

Travelnsj
01-21-2009, 12:24
Warm vs. Cold
Warm water is an absolute joke....I found little challenge in diving in warm waters...that being said

You are funny....where have you dove in the Indo-Pacific region? or the South Pacific?

Been thru the Tiputa pass in Rangiora in a 10 knot current? find a depression and hide behind a big rock and look up and around to see all the Sharks, Rays etc zipping past....then let go and end up 2 to 3 miles from where you were dropped off.....or the Blue Corner in Palau on a day when the current is ripping and your reef hook bends as you are hanging on looking at the dozens of Sharks, Rays, Dogtooth Tuna etc etc go by.....or better yet swimming thru a wicked current up to 5 or 6 knots at Cape Kri of Sardines reef in Raja Ampat to get to that no current pocket to hang out to see the greatest Bio-diversity on this planet?....Oh...and all this in 82 to 85 degree water:smiley20:

I have dove cold water:smiley21:....rather take up Golf:smiley20:

DiveRite
01-21-2009, 12:36
Sorry by absolute joke I did not mean to belittle warm water diving...what I meant was in comparison with little to no thermal protection it makes it seem like you are swimming in a pool...again as a comparison.

Complacency has no place in the water and one must always be mindful and aware.

Again, my apologies if it was taken wrong.

D.

MSilvia
01-21-2009, 13:57
Been thru the Tiputa pass in Rangiora in a 10 knot current?
You can get ripping currents in cold water too, especially in the Bay of Fundy during a (28 foot) tide change. Compared to diving a ripping current in cold water gear (30+ lbs of lead, 7mm neoprene or dry suit), diving a ripping current in 80 degree water IS a cake walk.

See how well you can hold on to that bending reef hook when 40 degree water is trying to rip your mask off and run down the back of your neck. I got a good dose of that when I missed slack tide out in Stellwagen Bank one time. It was kind of like diving, and kind of like being a kite in an arctic wind storm.


I have dove cold water:smiley21:....rather take up Golf:smiley20:
It's not for everyone... in no small part because it is far more challenging than diving in warm water.

Travelnsj
01-21-2009, 14:23
Been thru the Tiputa pass in Rangiora in a 10 knot current?
You can get ripping currents in cold water too, especially in the Bay of Fundy during a (28 foot) tide change. Compared to diving a ripping current in cold water gear (30+ lbs of lead, 7mm neoprene or dry suit), diving a ripping current in 80 degree water IS a cake walk.

See how well you can hold on to that bending reef hook when 40 degree water is trying to rip your mask off and run down the back of your neck. I got a good dose of that when I missed slack tide out in Stellwagen Bank one time. It was kind of like diving, and kind of like being a kite in an arctic wind storm.

That sounds like so much fun....LOL...LOL:smiley5:

MSilvia
01-21-2009, 14:26
That sounds like so much fun....LOL...LOL:smiley5:
That part was not particularly fun, but the first part of the dive (helping identify an unknown and previously undived shipwreck for NOAA) made it totally worthwhile. I'd do it again in half a heartbeat.

Travelnsj
01-21-2009, 14:53
Matt where have you dove in the Indo-Pacific area or South Pacific to do these comparisons?

I have dove cold water in the Channel Islands and Anacapa Island that they say is the American Galapagos.....and yes been in ripping currents probably up to 5 knots.....I thought the diving was a pain in the butt and much more work than it was worth....and all the Marine life I have seen there or in Catalina...again 50 dives= 1 in Raja Ampat or Palau.

I have dove both....I have found warm water to be as challenging as cold water any day....but warm water is fun.....Cold water is get wet diving.....I'd rather play golf:smiley20:

MSilvia
01-21-2009, 17:04
Matt where have you dove in the Indo-Pacific area or South Pacific to do these comparisons?
I have not, unless you count New Zealand. I just don't see how that matters. The biggest difference between locations is what's in the water, not any inherent quality of the water itself. Salinity aside, sea water is sea water. If I'm diving a 2 knot current in 80 degree ocean water and close my eyes, there is no difference between Micronesia and Florida.

Fun is subjective... I like both warm and cold water diving, for different reasons. I'm not trying to convince you that either is "better", but frankly, I think the notion that warm water is "as challenging as cold water any day" is laughable. You need bulkier gear, significantly more weight, additional prep and maintainence time, and the conditions tend to be darker and are (objectively) more inherently dangerous. In cold water, there's a risk of hypothermia, free flows, frozen valves, and cold induced dexterity loss, any of which can cause life threating complications while diving.

That you'd rather play golf than dive in cold water has nothing whatsoever to do with the obstacles that need to be overcome in order to do it, and many of those obstacles just don't exist in warm water.

You have an impressive resume of exotic vacations, but you don't have to go to Rangiora to know what diving in current is like. Unless, of course, there is some unique aquatic condition that exists there that one must experience first hand in order to understand the difficult nature of Indo-Pacific diving. If you're accustomed to dodging volcanic eruptions underwater, experiencing profile-shattering depth changes from passing tsunamis, or the like, I'll grant that I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. If it's just diving in a current, and the only real difference is what kind of marine life is drifting by, I feel pretty qualified in making the comparison.

Since you ask though, where have you dove in the Gulf of Maine/North Atlantic that qualifies you to make the blanket statement that it's just "get wet" diving?

Travelnsj
01-21-2009, 19:33
Matt where have you dove in the Indo-Pacific area or South Pacific to do these comparisons?

I think the notion that warm water is "as challenging as cold water any day" is laughable. You need bulkier gear, significantly more weight, additional prep and maintainence time, and the conditions tend to be darker and are (objectively) more inherently dangerous. In cold water, there's a risk of hypothermia, free flows, frozen valves, and cold induced dexterity loss, any of which can cause life threating complications while diving.

That sounds like unsafe and dangerous diving.....I would pass...what is the challenge or fun in a life threating dive like that?...LOL


Since you ask though, where have you dove in the Gulf of Maine/North Atlantic that qualifies you to make the blanket statement that it's just "get wet" diving?

Easy....I have dove with a 7mm suit, up to a 5 knot current, 30 lbs weight, 52 degree water, Crappy vis etc etc....To me that was/is get wet diving!.....I have found being in a 5 or 10 knot current (and times a washing machine current), in a 1mm shorty, 8 lbs of weight to be every bit as or more challenging as cold water as I have dove both. The only thing I will agree with you on for cold water diving....Is the prep takes longer and is a pain in the Arse.

Have I ever been to the North Atlantic or Maine?.....not on you life....LOL...even for an all paid 1st class ticket and trip....I'll spend 10K for that ripping current in the Indo-Pacific region in 82 to 85 degree water:smiley20:.....I am sure there are some good Parallels between the North Atlantic and Anacapa/Channel Islands on a challenging dive day which I have done.

My suggestion come with me to Palau in March and we will go down and do the Peleliu express....I have know people who swear that current has been up to 15 knots.....one hell of a ride:smiley20:...then you could do a comparison!

CompuDude
01-21-2009, 19:41
Matt where have you dove in the Indo-Pacific area or South Pacific to do these comparisons?

I think the notion that warm water is "as challenging as cold water any day" is laughable. You need bulkier gear, significantly more weight, additional prep and maintainence time, and the conditions tend to be darker and are (objectively) more inherently dangerous. In cold water, there's a risk of hypothermia, free flows, frozen valves, and cold induced dexterity loss, any of which can cause life threating complications while diving.

That sounds like unsafe and dangerous diving.....I would pass...what is the challenge or fun in a life threating dive like that?...LOL

If you can ask that question with a straight face, you've been ignoring everything we've been writing.

mm2002
01-21-2009, 21:56
Seems like you guys are mainly talking currents. In that respect, I've never been in much of a current in cold water, however I have in "semi warm" water (72F). It wasn't fun, because it was a beach dive, and we were trying to make it back to our entry point at out-going tide (poor planning on my part). I don't know the strength of the current, but I can tell you I was one tired SOB when we got back. I can't imagine doing that same dive in some of the cold dark places I've dove. I think it would be rather spooky.

Travelnsj
01-21-2009, 22:00
CompuDude....Yep I can easily say that with a straight face…that specific dive(s) as described is not challenging in anyway maybe it is just me…sounds Unsafe and life threating…..Taking a chance on frozen valves, loss of dexterity due to the cold, risk of hypothermia etc…..Abort the dive!

But if you think diving cold water is more challenging than warm water....come with me to Palau or Raja Ampat this year....I have dove both cold and warm waters....I think I can prove you wrong.:smiley20:

Splitlip
01-21-2009, 22:21
Matt where have you dove in the Indo-Pacific area or South Pacific to do these comparisons?
but frankly, I think the notion that warm water is "as challenging as cold water any day" is laughable. You need bulkier gear, significantly more weight, additional prep and maintainence time, and the conditions tend to be darker and are (objectively) more inherently dangerous. In cold water, there's a risk of hypothermia, free flows, frozen valves, and cold induced dexterity loss, any of which can cause life threating complications while diving.



Matt, I am with you here. You forgot navigation skills! Cold water diving requires significantly more task loading as well.

I get a kick out of cold water divers who are nervous about diving in a bathtub full of gin when I meet them here.

Granted, where I live we have certain site specific issues, but none of us considers them particularly dangerous compared to diving in the North East or Mid West.

My biggest and I think only fear is boat traffic here. I was struck by a boat once. Oh, and drifting out to the mid Atlantic. But not so much.
Oh, I don't like sticks and tree branches either.

DMWiz
01-21-2009, 23:12
You want a challenge dive COLD water with 6-7 knot tides pulling you around....!

Now that's funny, if I wanted a work out I'd go to the gym or even better play football with my 4 year old!:smiley20:

I'm with Matt on this one what makes diving better or worse is if you're able to accomplish your goal.

I'm a www and I consider myself lucky to live where I live and being able to dive year round wearing a 3/2 mm wetsuit. But I can appreciate diving elsewhere.

BTW, one benefit of diving in warm water is people can't usually tell when you pee in your wet suit :D

DiveRite
01-22-2009, 11:07
Well, I'm pretty sure the Junior Diver location is not the best spot for this discussion...but hey.....it's interesting.

This is directed at Travelnsj

First, saying that warm water diving is "as challenging as cold water any day" is quite funny. Not even remotely the same thing....other than the fact that you are surrounded by water.

I mean really...come on...what kind of a statement is that. If you prefer warm water diving then by all means enjoy....it is quite relaxing. If you don't enjoy cold water then don't engage in it...that's quite OK as well.

Anybody with any sense of reality knows that cold water diving is much more intense with a number of contributing factors creating a great deal of task loading.

Second,"sounds Unsafe and life threating…..Taking a chance on frozen valves, loss of dexterity due to the cold, risk of hypothermia etc…..Abort the dive!" Are you for real? With the proper training, practice, equipment and team you can prevent a number of these from happening. Along with a good team approach you can be very safe in the water. All of these can happen but with practicing of skills you greatly reduce the chance of bad consequences from happening in the result of a mishap.

Training is paramount................these skills must be second nature!!! Wondering what level of certification you may (this is not a shot) as I am curious as to whether or not you have ever dealt with any level of team diving in a technical sense. If not, you may benefit from a technical course (I have done both Naui and TDI technical courses).

Please understand that I am not against warm water diving nor do I have any problems with it. I quite enjoy throwing on a 3 mm shorty, single 80 and 6 lbs of lead. It is more than relaxing and quite nice.

I prefer cold water diving as it is at my back door...so to speak. I dive to relax not to see pretty fish (not that there is anything wrong with this). If I am in the water I am calm, cool and collected. My training allows for my to be prepared and my practicing ensures that I am ready if something happens and my buddy is right by side practicing those same skills.

I would much rather sink down examine a 1st or 2nd WW shipwreck that still has tanks, trucks and bails of barbed wire on board. That's my cup of tea!!!!

But by the same token I can appreciate that that is not your cup of tea. I would simply ask that you not try to compare warm water and cold water diving and saying the warm water is as challenging...really come on.

Kevin

MSilvia
01-22-2009, 11:57
that specific dive(s) as described is not challenging in anyway maybe it is just me…sounds Unsafe and life threating…..Taking a chance on frozen valves, loss of dexterity due to the cold, risk of hypothermia etc…..Abort the dive!
If you were just "taking a chance", I'd agree. That would be stump dumb and totally reckless. A big part of the challenge of diving cold water, which believe it or not is appealing to some of us, is managing all of the things that can potentially go wrong, so that a dive in near freezing water can be both safe and relaxing. I worry about none of the things I listed, because I know how to prevent those problems, and have contingency plans for dealing with them if they should happen anyhow. If you don't know how to do that dive safely, you have no business trying it.


come with me to Palau or Raja Ampat this year....I have dove both cold and warm waters....I think I can prove you wrong.:smiley20:
While I appreciate the invitation, I can't imagine you would prove anything to me other than that the diving there is breathtaking and pretty much all-around awesome. Unfortunately, I have a baby girl and wife to support, so Palau isn't likely to fit into my budget for the next 8 years or so.

You'll just have to convince me with your words. Since I do plan on diving there in the future, please tell me again what unique challenges I'd have to learn to deal with in order to dive the warm waters of Palau safely.

Travelnsj
01-22-2009, 13:28
Unfortunately, I have a baby girl and wife to support, so Palau isn't likely to fit into my budget for the next 8 years or so.

Well Matt....that is your Palau and Raja Ampat....and I am sure much more rewarding:smiley20:...since a Wife or Baby is not in my budget....But Palau and Raja are....I'll go for ya:smiley20:

We will just have to agree to disagree that Warm water can be at times every bit as challenging as Cold water diving!

chinacat46
01-22-2009, 13:42
Scott,

I've dived in Raja and Palau and a few other warm water locations with ripping currents I got agree with the majority here. Warm water is just not as challenging. The coldest I've dived in is in NZ which is probably warm for Matt but having a heavy wetsuit on in addition to the extra weights makes it more challenging if the currents are the same. When I dove in the Galapagos the water temps were ~68 and I found that more challenging then any water warm location I've ever dove. You get some intense currents down there and add to that the extra task loading of a heavy wetsuit and 20+ lbs of weight I don't see how you can make some of your comments with a straight face. Yes you can a agree to disagree but that doesn't mean you're right.

Travelnsj
01-22-2009, 14:07
Sorry Chuck....I disagree with you or maybe is is how we define challenge. I have dove places in cold water with all the extra weights and heavy wet suit etc etc in strong currents, poor vis etc. at Anacapa Island we even had to abort one dive after 10 minutes due to no vis and ripping current...i have also dove the Galapagos....The prep time and the diving with all that crap on is a pain in the arse. But not a challenge. I have been in more challenging diving situations at the Blue Corner, Cape Kri, Rangiroa, East Timor etc.....Now if you are doing Tech diving in Cold water that is comparing apples to oranges.

Give you a perfect example of some Hard Oregon divers, as you know these guys deal with wicked currents, cold waters and dry suits etc. About 5 years ago in Palau 4 of these divers joined the boat. Their first day, first dive of the day we did the Blue Holes.....came up these guys were "this is like swimming in a bath tub"...second dive the Blue Corner, currents wicked that day if fact i bent my reef hook finally after 10 minutes we unhooked as we were being tossed about and went to the back part of the Plateau.....One of these tough divers could not get through the current and surfaced. When we got back on the boat....These guys were shaking never been in a dive like that yada yada....Two of them were DM's.....LOL

chinacat46
01-22-2009, 17:04
Scott,

That is a nice story and I could list a few I experienced in both warm and cold water as well but I think you are the only one here who remotely thinks warm water is as challenging as cold water. I think even you have to admit it is more difficult to dive in a 7mil suit then it is a 3mil or less. Of course trying to get you to put on a 3mil not to mention a 7mil is very challenging. LOL

Rainer
01-22-2009, 17:10
Good God, if you're judging Anacapa to be either challenging or cold, you've no idea what cold water diving is!

Travelnsj
01-22-2009, 17:27
Scott,

That is a nice story and I could list a few I experienced in both warm and cold water as well but I think you are the only one here who remotely thinks warm water is as challenging as cold water. I think even you have to admit it is more difficult to dive in a 7mil suit then it is a 3mil or less. Of course trying to get you to put on a 3mil not to mention a 7mil is very challenging. LOL

Chuck

I used to dive in a 7mm, 30lbs, hood, gloves, thick boots...and had a steel 120 straped to my back....was it a pain in the butt to put on...YES...underwater was it unconfortable...Yep....challenging....I never saw it that way.

And I am going diving in cool water next month in the Philippines.....I have to wear a 1mm fullsuit, layered with my 1mm shorty plus a beanie....so I will be able to tell everyone how challenging that was with all that gear on....still do not think so.....And ChinaCat....you did not want to meet up with me because the water is too Cool for you...Wimp!....LOL

chinacat46
01-22-2009, 17:35
Well I think you should put your 7mm on and go hit some golf balls then put your 1mm fullsuit on, layered with your 1mm shorty and hit some more golf balls. Report back which was tougher. As for the Philippines the reason I opted out was because I want to go to Tubbataha reef and the diving there doesn't even start till mid March and I don't want to go at the very start of the season since you can still get blown out then. I prefer warm water but I don't rule a place out cause the water is 77 degrees like you will be diving in PG.

Travelnsj
01-22-2009, 18:01
I got out my 3mm that has not been on for a few years....Damn thing shrank!...so I would not even think of trying on that 7mm....So I am stuck with the 1mm, shorty over that...then a vest...and I do not find that type of diving challenging just a pain in the Arse!

MSilvia
01-22-2009, 18:50
I do not find that type of diving challenging just a pain in the Arse!
Clearly you don't LIKE cold water diving, but if it's not challenging why is it a pain in the arse?

Travelnsj
01-22-2009, 19:36
I do not find that type of diving challenging just a pain in the Arse!
Clearly you don't LIKE cold water diving, but if it's not challenging why is it a pain in the arse?

Because I chose to put that stuff on...either I adapt to it or do not wear it. I have felt uncomfortable wearing a 7mm and a steel 120!...but going to point A to point B in a dive...i have never felt it was challenging I still got there with about the same effort underwater....just a pain feeling like a Mummy!

DiveRite
01-23-2009, 08:22
I'm sorry but cool water with a 1 mm suit...give me a break. Cool water starts at about 41 F. My location offers high temps of 54 F and right now the water is at 38 F.

I find it kind of funny to think of temps in the 60's or 70's as cool.

Enjoy your little world where everything is hot and challenging. We all know the reality....COLD WATER IS MORE CHALLENGING!!!

Travelnsj
01-23-2009, 10:30
I'm sorry but cool water with a 1 mm suit...give me a break. Cool water starts at about 41 F. My location offers high temps of 54 F and right now the water is at 38 F.

I find it kind of funny to think of temps in the 60's or 70's as cool.

Enjoy your little world where everything is hot and challenging. We all know the reality....COLD WATER IS MORE CHALLENGING!!!

Cool water is between 68 to 78 degrees.....Cold is anything below 68....LOL....I'll be diving in 76 degree water and hate putting on that 1mm....I have not worn a full suit in my last 300 or so dives!

Now regarding your statement "COLD WATER IS MORE CHALLENGING" do you Walk the Walk or Talk the Talk?....you are sounding like those Oregon divers i dove with a few years ago in Palau....join me in Palau in March....think I can change your mind!:smiley20:...as I have dove both!

MSilvia
01-23-2009, 10:59
I find it kind of funny to think of temps in the 60's or 70's as cool.
Ditto... anything over 60 is bath water. As a kid, I didn't wear anything but cutoff jeans to swim in 55 degree ocean water.

DiveRite
01-23-2009, 11:27
Man oh man....does it ever end. I walk the walk as you so call it!

I routinely (aprrox. 6 dives a week) dive cold water in temps that can dip to 32 F. I have dove warm water and don't get me wrong it's nice (just like my heated swimming pool where I teach).

Reality is....you are not an authority on cold water diving (quite obvious by your statements).

I agree with a previous poster...we will have to agree to disagree (even though you are clearly wrong).

As for diving with you...no thanks....not interested...I dive with my group who is equally trained and practiced in all skills. As far as warm water diving is concerned my only interest are cenotes, caverns and caves.

Enjoy your trip. I enjoy my dives on the local shipwrecks in the 150-200'+ range.


PS. My kids are going into the Bay in 52 F water with swimming trunks.....grow a set.


Take care

Travelnsj
01-23-2009, 12:37
Grow a set?.....you need to take your own advice...sounds like those Macho Oregon Divers I met a few years ago...LOL....at least have an interest in doing the comparison before you pass judgment.

I be diving WWII wrecks in 100+ vis in the next few weeks....and 83 degree water:smiley20:

CompuDude
01-23-2009, 12:56
Does anyone else find the flaunting of lots of spare cash for expensive exotic trips a tad gauche in today's economic climate? I'm sure most of the people on this board would love to take up the challenge, but unless Travelnsj wants to fund our trips, I don't know that's a particularly fair challenge.

DMWiz
01-23-2009, 13:01
I was thinking the same thing exactly 20 posts ago before you said it.

Travelnsj
01-23-2009, 13:04
LOL...LOL....If you know a female 25 year old, hard body, cold water diver....I may be interested in taking her:smiley20:...LOL

I only have 3 firm trips this year....Last year was 5 the year before 6....So I am cutting back...thanks to those thousands of BofA shares I own:smiley21:

DiveRite
01-23-2009, 13:14
Grow a set?.....you need to take your own advice...sounds like those Macho Oregon Divers I met a few years ago...LOL....at least have an interest in doing the comparison before you pass judgment.

I be diving WWII wrecks in 100+ vis in the next few weeks....and 83 degree water:smiley20:


And you don't have a sense of humour.....enjoy your trips...I'm sure you'll have fun.

100+ vis....sounds very challenging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Try 8' or less...then will talk. I'm done!!!

MSilvia
01-23-2009, 13:55
Does anyone else find the flaunting of lots of spare cash for expensive exotic trips a tad gauche in today's economic climate?
No... I wouldn't say I find it a tad gauche.

Rainer
01-23-2009, 15:46
Seriously, stop feeding the troll...

chinacat46
01-23-2009, 15:51
LOL...LOL....If you know a female 25 year old, hard body, cold water diver....I may be interested in taking her:smiley20:...LOL

I only have 3 firm trips this year....Last year was 5 the year before 6....So I am cutting back...thanks to those thousands of BofA shares I own:smiley21:

Scott 25? That is almost young enough to be your grand daughter. :smilie39:

mm2002
01-23-2009, 19:30
Next?

chinacat46
01-23-2009, 22:09
previous?

Travelnsj
01-24-2009, 11:44
Scott 25? That is almost young enough to be your grand daughter. :smilie39:

I think you have had a bit more experience with that than I have had in the last few months Gramps:smiley20:.....And I am jealous!

Rileybri
01-24-2009, 12:14
Having just returned from my first warm water diving (HMS Rhone in the BVI's) I can now post to this thread with some credibility and knowledge. COld water diving takes dedication and determination making a solid and disciplined diver. Warm water diving brings out the "tourist" diver or tourist diver behavior. What I am talking about is belly flopping boar entries with no air in the BC and unable to fix a free flowing reg behaviors. dropping weight belts on peoples heads, and going ballistic for the surface for no reason other than being in a hurry to be the first one out and on the boat????? these were observations based solely on the 8 people on our particular dive charter and is in no way a representation of the greater warm water resident diving community. In addition I understand that you are less likely to get bent diving warm water??

DiveRite
01-26-2009, 07:36
Well folks....I had a very NON-CHALLENGING cold water dive yesterday. Surface termperature was -4F (plus windchill) and water temperature was 35F. Visibility was approx. 2' with lots of running current and swells. Man...I wish I could have went on a challenging warm warm dive......

LMFAO

Lulubelle
01-26-2009, 08:52
Gents, it has been fascinating to watch this pee-pee contest unfold. Can I kill this thread now, please?

The OP was a Junior Diver with an innocent question who by the way has not logged in since October.

I have little opinion about which conditions are most challenging although logic tells me that deep, cold water, ocean diving would win. What is challenging may depend on your background. DiveRite may be challenged to feel comfortable in warmer waters. Travelsnj is challenged by the idea of diving in tons of gear. I have seen midwestern tech divers get into lots of trouble here in NC because it was an OCEAN. You aren't going to agree on this. Be happy with knowing you believe what you believe to be true and MOVE ON and stop with the insult slinging.

I didn't get into diving to be "challenged". I got into it to open up the underwater world for my exploration. I have learned how to deal effectively with the challenges present in my chosen diving environments so that I can do so. Until reading some of Matt's posts, I would have told you that you will never see me below 130 feet. I am now intrigued by the idea of seeing a wreck that hasn't been picked clean already. Then again when they found the Queen Anne's Revenge they immediately created this complicated and expensive structure for being able to dive it.

Die, thread, die.

DiveRite
01-26-2009, 11:49
Nope...I'm not uncomfortable in warm water...just don't find it challenging and have stated that I mean no disrespect.

My last 2 cents!

Lulubelle
01-26-2009, 13:57
Nope...I'm not uncomfortable in warm water...just don't find it challenging and have stated that I mean no disrespect.

My last 2 cents!

My comments were theoretical, to the female eye this is a guy's pee-pee contest which we think is funny. :smiley29: All of you think you are right and are not content with your own truth, you want everyone else to see it the same way.

I'm just glad that I am not in diving for the challenge, for me, it is just for the sheer beauty and magic of the world downunder which I am currently enjoying in warmer waters. Thin southern blood here. It was interesting to watch the Canadians diving in Turks and Caicos in their trunks and nothing else. The rest of us were wearing far more and were colder. I suspect some of one's tolerance for cold and heat is indeed genetic/developed by where we live.

Can this thread die now? Please? All, go, be happy, dive safely.

UCFKnightDiver
01-26-2009, 20:40
I think cave/cavern diving is the best diving in the world and I am kind of cold in the 68-72 deg water especially because pinnacle hasnt sent me my 5mil back and im diving my 3/2 :(

mm2002
01-26-2009, 20:43
I think diving water above 200F would be somewhat challenging. I thought about trying some of those hot volcanic springs up in Utah. I'm thinking the boiling water stirring up the clay would screw up the vis though.
Thermo Hot Springs - Beaver County (http://www.utahoutdooractivities.com/thermohotsprings.html)

Lulu, wanna join me for this one? I'm not sure which suit to wear.

Lulubelle
01-26-2009, 21:13
I think diving water above 200F would be somewhat challenging. I thought about trying some of those hot volcanic springs up in Utah. I'm thinking the boiling water stirring up the clay would screw up the vis though.
Thermo Hot Springs - Beaver County (http://www.utahoutdooractivities.com/thermohotsprings.html)

Lulu, wanna join me for this one? I'm not sure which suit to wear.

Sure, let's go naked.

mm2002
01-26-2009, 21:21
I think diving water above 200F would be somewhat challenging. I thought about trying some of those hot volcanic springs up in Utah. I'm thinking the boiling water stirring up the clay would screw up the vis though.
Thermo Hot Springs - Beaver County (http://www.utahoutdooractivities.com/thermohotsprings.html)

Lulu, wanna join me for this one? I'm not sure which suit to wear.

Sure, let's go naked.

Hell yeah, that's what I'm talking about! We'll come back here and show these buncha newbies what a "challenge" really is.

Lulubelle
01-26-2009, 21:23
I think diving water above 200F would be somewhat challenging. I thought about trying some of those hot volcanic springs up in Utah. I'm thinking the boiling water stirring up the clay would screw up the vis though.
Thermo Hot Springs - Beaver County (http://www.utahoutdooractivities.com/thermohotsprings.html)

Lulu, wanna join me for this one? I'm not sure which suit to wear.

Sure, let's go naked.

Hell yeah, that's what I'm talking about! We'll come back here and show these buncha newbies what a "challenge" really is.

:smilie39::smilie39::smilie39::smilie39:


Looks like you are nearly there (nekkid) from your avatar Mark.

mm2002
01-26-2009, 21:25
I'm online as we speak, looking for a high heat o-ring for my camera housing. We gotta have pics!

Lulubelle
01-26-2009, 21:38
I'm online as we speak, looking for a high heat o-ring for my camera housing. We gotta have pics!

Yeah, I'm sure they will be a real hit. 200F cooked naked skin.

mm2002
01-26-2009, 22:00
I'm online as we speak, looking for a high heat o-ring for my camera housing. We gotta have pics!

Yeah, I'm sure they will be a real hit. 200F cooked naked skin.

Properly basted and glazed, though, with a slice of pineapple on top.......probably look kinda tasty! :smiley36:

Travelnsj
01-27-2009, 01:07
Now I think I need a cool water dive:smiley20: