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trekkindave
09-16-2008, 15:04
How do you all mark your reels for indicate the amount of line payed out?

Do you have a system of knots, colored rings, markers?

CompuDude
09-16-2008, 15:32
Everyone does it differently. And it's a PITA to do. Easier the second time (touch-up only), but no fun. Be prepared to spend a good while on it.

I marked my Salvo 400' reel as indicated in this attachment. (I don't really feel like typing it all out right now.) Essentially marks every 10 feet, and knots every 50. All black... colors go away at depth. They can be handy for shallow water, but they fade faster than black, so I chose to keep it simple.

trekkindave
09-16-2008, 16:16
Thank you for the attachment.. this seems to be exactly what i was looking for. I may modify it a little bit, but overall i think this will work out well.


The attachement is right though, marking out toward the 400 ft end could be obnoxious with three 2 inch pips, one 1 inch pip, and three .5 inch pips.

Maybe a know for 50 feet increments and dashes for each 10 feet... so three knots and 2 pips would be 170 feet.

Ill have to figure this all out tomorrow while I am at work.. i can pay out all 400 feet of the line while I am in the ambulance garage without problems

do you have a couple links to tech/cave/dir training stuff and tips for gear, operations, etc??

MSilvia
09-16-2008, 16:32
I hold mine tight, and pluck it like a guitar string. I figure a 440Hz "A" is about 120' of line, and I adjust from there. Each half step up or down the scale is about 6 feet, so if I pay out enough line to change the tone from a D flat to an F, I know I travelled about 24' or so.

Just kidding, I tied a knot every 10 feet. ;)

Here's a link to a good information source for you: Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving | Global Underwater Explorers (http://www.gue.com/?q=en/node/159)

CompuDude
09-16-2008, 17:32
I considered the knot every 10 feet, but that doesn't give you direction, and you're hosed if you lose count. (well, probably not hosed, but it'll take some work to get back in the swing of things)

The marking method, which I whipped up after considering a lot of other people's systems, works well (for me) because it gives you pretty precise distance measuring AND direction (except the first 10 feet), since the bigger marks are always at the front. So no matter what happens, you find one mark and you know where you are on the line and which way to head to get to the front.

(Obviously sometimes my reels are used for things other than "tie off on one point and run the line until you're ready to turn around and reel up"... because if you have the reel in your hand, you know which way the other end is, clearly.)

mm_dm
09-17-2008, 07:59
I hold mine tight, and pluck it like a guitar string. I figure a 440Hz "A" is about 120' of line, and I adjust from there. Each half step up or down the scale is about 6 feet, so if I pay out enough line to change the tone from a D flat to an F, I know I travelled about 24' or so.


Pure genius, Matt:smiley32: Add a dive buddy with a tank banger...

ianr33
09-17-2008, 08:25
Why do you need to know how much line has been payed out? (Assuming you are not doing a survey?)

It was suggested on my cave course to tie one overhand knot six feet along my safety spool,2 at 12 feet and 3 at 18 feet (six feet is an armspan,finger tip to finger tip) This was for lost line drills.

In the event of losing the line in zero viz a spool/reel is deployed.Move six feet (1 knot) away and search for the line. If no luck then go out to 2 knots and so on.

What I decided to do in the end was to actually go with one knot at 10,2 at 20,3 at 30,ending with 5 at 50. Idea is that this is better for open water diving to indicate stop depths below a liftbag. Also mark the knots with a black pen.
In theory that should make it possible to do deco stops in zero viz (although you would have to mentally count the time) Would also work in the unlikely event of losing 2 computers and maybe a buddy as well.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
09-17-2008, 08:26
I wonder how the marks work when you cannot see the line?

trekkindave
09-17-2008, 09:11
No Im not doing surveying, but the viz is generaly low around here.
I like to know about how far from the end of the line I am when moving back to the tie off spot from out in open water at depth. Also moving in arcs/circles at given distances from the tie off helps do a search in the limited viz.

I guess the line marking for 0 or limited viz come from my fire department training. I like to know where I am on the line. Also if a buddy is trailing on the line and they arn't carrying the reel. Its nice for them to be able to tell which way back to the tie off or to the guy with the reel.

mm_dm
09-17-2008, 09:47
What I decided to do in the end was to actually go with one knot at 10,2 at 20,3 at 30,ending with 5 at 50. Idea is that this is better for open water diving to indicate stop depths below a liftbag. Also mark the knots with a black pen.
In theory that should make it possible to do deco stops in zero viz (although you would have to mentally count the time) Would also work in the unlikely event of losing 2 computers and maybe a buddy as well.

This is a very practical application that I can relate to, especially since I've had computers fail in the past.

No Misses
09-17-2008, 11:31
I prefer to mark mine in binary. That way i can test how nark'ed I am by my ability to convert Binary to Decimal :-0

dash dot dash dot = 1010 Binary = 10 decimal

in_cavediver
09-17-2008, 11:46
Personally, I have just used the 10' knotted line with bigger/two knots every 50'. I have about 600' of knotted line and only 200' of it is actually on a reel at the momemt. I just don't use it much.

As for navigation though, I would put arrows, cookies or slates on rather than count on reading marks or knots. I've only done this once and that was an exercise in trilaterialization for underwater surveying. We used cookies and slates for this. The baseline was 200' with arrows spaced 50'. We used 50' fabric tape measures for object distance measurements from known points on the baseline and the position was relative to the direction of the arrow (right or left of baseline). It was a great example of precise data collection in the underwater environment.

CompuDude
09-17-2008, 12:15
Why do you need to know how much line has been payed out? (Assuming you are not doing a survey?)

Plenty of reasons, including simple personal preference. :)

A fully marked line just gives you more options than one with fewer (or no) marks. They don't hurt anything when you don't need them, but can be pretty handy on occasion. So it was worth it to me to spend the time (one evening in the front of the TV is not that big of a deal) setting it up.

beperkins
10-16-2008, 14:08
I do a tally style marking system with black permanent marker. That way if you have no idea how much line has been payed out you can easily find out. So I at 10 feet II at 20 and so on. Does not help you with the 100's of feet played out, but if you do not know that, I figure you are in trouble anyway.

WaScubaDude
10-16-2008, 15:36
I hold mine tight, and pluck it like a guitar string. I figure a 440Hz "A" is about 120' of line, and I adjust from there. Each half step up or down the scale is about 6 feet, so if I pay out enough line to change the tone from a D flat to an F, I know I travelled about 24' or so.


Pure genius, Matt:smiley32: Add a dive buddy with a tank banger...

And one of those weazing Dacor Rental Regs.

Could be made into a monster, if we all pulled together as a team.

texdiveguy
10-16-2008, 16:04
I don't mark my reels.....but I do have my favorite spool marked with knots at 10ft. increments and the knocks are colored black......I only have it measured out to 50ft..

marchand
10-28-2008, 21:23
I think it is much more important to mark the reel/spool than distance on the line; in a cave anyways. Some type of raised pattern or something so that you know which reels and spools are yours in case of a lights out exit. If you are concerned about how far you are in the cave you probably should not be in one in the first place; unless you are surveying of course.

mike_s
10-28-2008, 21:51
I prefer to mark mine in binary. That way i can test how nark'ed I am by my ability to convert Binary to Decimal :-0

dash dot dash dot = 1010 Binary = 10 decimal

That's pretty funny....reminds me of a co-worker that has a binary LED clock. When I first saw it and tried to figure out what it was, it surprised me. (converted the bits from binary to decimal and notice the numbers were the same as what time it was).... but he won't tell people what it is and tries to make them guess. it's pretty funny.

mike_s
10-28-2008, 22:02
Seriously I've thought about using Morse to mark mine.

use each number below multiplied by 10. so 1 = 10ft., etc.

using a paint marker...

1.) .----
2.) ..---
3.) ...--
4.) ....-
5.) .....
6.) -....
7.) --...
8.) ---..
9.) ----.
10.) -----


Or use Resistor Color codes.... but you have to be able to read the codes and colors might fade.... and you'd have to have a lot of differenct color paint markers. Also concerned with telling colors at depth.

but if you're intersted, here is the chart.

for example, 010 feet (10') would be black-brown-black
20 feet would be black-red-black.

http://users.etech.fh-hamburg.de/users/gelab/Bilder/Sonstige/color-code.gif


but after seeing Compudue's method in the pDF file, I like it also.... it's similar to Morse, but just slighly annontated different.

in_cavediver
10-29-2008, 04:57
I prefer to mark mine in binary. That way i can test how nark'ed I am by my ability to convert Binary to Decimal :-0

dash dot dash dot = 1010 Binary = 10 decimal

That's pretty funny....reminds me of a co-worker that has a binary LED clock. When I first saw it and tried to figure out what it was, it surprised me. (converted the bits from binary to decimal and notice the numbers were the same as what time it was).... but he won't tell people what it is and tries to make them guess. it's pretty funny.

I need one of those clocks.....

CompuDude
10-29-2008, 14:51
I prefer to mark mine in binary. That way i can test how nark'ed I am by my ability to convert Binary to Decimal :-0

dash dot dash dot = 1010 Binary = 10 decimal

That's pretty funny....reminds me of a co-worker that has a binary LED clock. When I first saw it and tried to figure out what it was, it surprised me. (converted the bits from binary to decimal and notice the numbers were the same as what time it was).... but he won't tell people what it is and tries to make them guess. it's pretty funny.

I need one of those clocks.....

Pretty sure they have them at ThinkGeek.

texdiveguy
10-29-2008, 15:18
I prefer to mark mine in binary. That way i can test how nark'ed I am by my ability to convert Binary to Decimal :-0

dash dot dash dot = 1010 Binary = 10 decimal

That's pretty funny....reminds me of a co-worker that has a binary LED clock. When I first saw it and tried to figure out what it was, it surprised me. (converted the bits from binary to decimal and notice the numbers were the same as what time it was).... but he won't tell people what it is and tries to make them guess. it's pretty funny.

I need one of those clocks.....

Pretty sure they have them at ThinkGeek.

Let's try and keep this on topic...' Reel Line Marking'. :)

in_cavediver
10-29-2008, 16:38
I think it is much more important to mark the reel/spool than distance on the line; in a cave anyways. Some type of raised pattern or something so that you know which reels and spools are yours in case of a lights out exit. If you are concerned about how far you are in the cave you probably should not be in one in the first place; unless you are surveying of course.

I waited to post because I wanted to think about this a bit more. My gut reaction is that yes its nice but its far from necessary. My thought about reaction is pretty similar.

If you are XXX back in a cave with multiple navigation decisions, you better have more than just a 'feel' for a reel to help you get out. There are many things you should be doing on the way in to aid in an exit - IE referencing the cave. (one of them is looking back for the percolation silt-out possibility). I am not saying its a bad idea and yes - you need to be able to know if that reel is likely yours. Tactile touch shouldn't be your only guide though.

marchand
11-04-2008, 13:20
Sometimes it is necessary to know what your reel feels like compared to others.

I don't recall where I said you only need to know what your reel feels like.

in_cavediver
11-04-2008, 20:05
Sometimes it is necessary to know what your reel feels like compared to others.

I don't recall where I said you only need to know what your reel feels like.

I guess I don't feel its that important. Knowing the types of reels I put in is needed information but I am not planning on trying to 'mark' my reels and spools for complete unique touch id. If I ever felt that was needed, I simply put a cookie/clip on the line in the spool of the reel. Much simpler and it works with whatever reel I use, whether I own it or not. It offers the side benefit of being a PIA to remove the reel if you don't expect to have a line marker in it thus preventing another team from taking the reel. I have done this technique underwater in practice scenario's but never actually in a cave for a needed marker. I just never have felt the need.

If you want to uniquely mark your reels - its your perogative. We each have to dive to the level we believe is safe/proper and take the precautions we think are appropriate to mitigate risks. There isn't a right or wrong answer.