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View Full Version : OW, but I can't swim into sisko the shark? or the plane? at CSSP



Ladyvalea
09-22-2008, 12:02
Ok, I'm on the Scubaboard tellin a story about swimming into the little fusolouge?? of the plane. and into the big sisko shark and the other people on the board said I was in violation of the OW policy ..because I'm in a plane of shark belly? I'm no longer in Open water. so I'm not to swim into these attractions? till i'm cave or something else certified? Thanks

MSilvia
09-22-2008, 12:08
You shouldn't be getting yourself into any overhead environment you wouldn't be able to get back out of in zero visability with a few kicks, but I think most reasonable divers recognize a difference between "overhead environments" and "swim throughs". Personally, I'd tell those people to cram it.

There are more than a few people posting on scubaboard who enjoy showing off their ability to regurgitate nit-picky details about rules they don't really understand.

Bigg_Budd
09-22-2008, 12:09
You just reminded me why I haven't visited that site in almost 6 months. That site dishes out nothing but hate...

texdiveguy
09-22-2008, 12:25
Both the 'attractions' you mention at CSSP/Tx. are IMO very safe for any O/W diver whom is skilled in the basics and understands there is a solid ceiling above them for the brief time in both. They are clear of most risk issues by design....though extra caution and awareness should be used when diving both. For those who are not familiar with these 2 CSSP sites they are 'swim throughs'. Don't let others on any board get to you....take comments with a grain of salt. Be safe,,,,use common sense and have fun. :)

Ladyvalea
09-22-2008, 12:59
thanks...I didn't think about the term Swim throughts and a real scary overhead enviroment...I just wanted to know the difference..

MSilvia
09-22-2008, 13:05
Generally speaking, the difference is that a swim through doesn't provent you from making a near-direct ascent to the surface, even if there's something immediately above you. If there's a danger you wouldn't be able to do a CESA from there, think of it as a "dangerous" overhead. Bear in mind that some places that might otherwise be considered swim-throughs should be treated as overhead environments if there's silt, things to get stuck on or tangled in, or other conditions that might prevent you from "just leaving".

Swimming under a dive boat, for example, isn't an "overhead environment" even though there's a boat directly overhead. There's a lot of grey area, and you have to make your own judgement calls. I recommend erring on the side of caution.

aggie99
09-22-2008, 14:37
I took my rescue class at CSSP and one of scenarios was a lost diver was in the plane. When my buddy and I entered the plane and found him he held up a slate with the following: "are you certified for overhead environments?, if not you are now a victim". Now I understand the message they were trying to make but I did argue (and they agreed) that the plane met all the requirements that I have been told for an OW certified diver which are:

1) Must maintain clear visibility to the exit point
2) There is enough ambient light that additional light is not required
3) Don't exceed 150' back (this is what I was told for caverns)

Now there have been times at CSSP that the conditions didn't meet these requirements so it is a judgement call.

texdiveguy
09-22-2008, 15:38
If a non trained overhead environment diver swims under a legged training platform which many lakes/quarries and dive parks have....then they are in a 'overhead' environment in the sense of a direct path up. Every diver has to use common sense when encountering any structural overhead and for those of us that venture below NDL's of course soft overheads. In regards to CSSP/Tx. all the deaths and near drownings that have occurred have been in o/w and did not involve any of the placed attractions. Use your brain, its the best protection you have!

in_cavediver
09-22-2008, 20:44
Tex is dead on.

You really do have to think it through. Some overheads such as under training platforms or through culverts really aren't that dangerous. Others though are more dangerous. To determine its safety, you have to think about the horizontal swim you must do to before you can get to the vertical ascent. A few feet doesn't matter much but if you add a few more feet, its tougher, add in a small door/entrance and it gets tougher. Add in silt, tougher still. Remove light tougher yet. Factor in sharing air to get out - it might be impossible.

There is a very good reason cavern/cave and wreck penetration is taught. Its a very technical pursuit because these overheads can greatly increase the risks you face as a diver. Hopefully, the training will help you learn to identify and mitigate those risks and allow you to go where you want. Untrained divers in these locales have a poor safety record compared to trained divers.

The takeaway message is to look at where you plan to swim and decide if you want to do a CESA or air share out of it. This should be a factor in deciding if you really should be there.

Splitlip
09-22-2008, 21:19
Ok, I'm on the Scubaboard tellin a story about swimming into the little fusolouge?? of the plane. and into the big sisko shark and the other people on the board said I was in violation of the OW policy ..because I'm in a plane of shark belly? I'm no longer in Open water. so I'm not to swim into these attractions? till i'm cave or something else certified? Thanks

Welcome to ScubaBoard "light", LOL.

Vercingetorix
09-22-2008, 22:22
I've been to CSSP many times. Although I am not Cave/Cavern certified, I have been through the plane several times. For those unfamiliar with Da' Plane, it is a twenty-foot long trainer used to train flight attendants. At the front and rear, there are doors on each side. Inside, along each side, there is a row of seats. The aisle between the seats is about 2-feet wide. the plane is about 5 feet wide.

Thus, if a diver swims through the doors from one side to the other, it is a swim through. The diver is "in the plane" for a distance of 5 feet before exiting.

Should a dive choose to swim the length of the plane (front-to-back), it is an overhead environment. But, it would be difficult to get into trouble. There are plenty of things to grab to pull oneself through and to an exit. There is not a lot to get gear caught on.

Sisco, the Shark is another matter altogether. I would not venture through unless my dive buddy had a pony bottle available in case I got stuck and needed extra air for extra time to be removed. Besides, there is nothing inside that shark I care to die for.

aggie99 made me chuckle. As a "victim" for a Rescue class, I was inside the plane and got to flash that slate to a number of my would-be rescuers.

warscout2
09-22-2008, 22:34
Ya we swim threw a few buses at lake rawlings but there is not silt so there is no issue with viz so I think its safe for ow divers.

huvrr
09-28-2008, 10:20
OMG someone call the scuba police