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Dash Riprock
08-15-2007, 14:23
Im looking to buy another SMB, one that I can shoot from depth as a safety stop hang.

My first SMB, is the See-Me Safety Tube bought from ScubaToys. Im sure it could be used for what i intend, but it has oral inflate only, and no overpressure relief. Id rather not remove my regulator from my mouth, Id prefer to inflate by purging my Octo+.

The other two SMBs are the See-Me with "dump" valve and the Self-Sealing See-Me.

My questions are:

Is a dump valve always the same as an overpressure valve?

The Self Sealing bag says it wont deflate at the surface. Does this mean the "See-Me w/ Dump valve" will upon surfacing? If that is true, then why sell it? If the bag has a dump/overpressure valve, then it seems it is geared towards underwater deployment, but if it will instantly deflate at surface, it seems like it has lost its purpose.

Finally, why O why are these things so expensive? $90 for a vinyl tube with plastic spring loaded valve and a clip...??

Thanks for your replies

DougNR
08-15-2007, 14:55
My questions are:

Is a dump valve always the same as an overpressure valve?

The Self Sealing bag says it wont deflate at the surface. Does this mean the "See-Me w/ Dump valve" will upon surfacing? If that is true, then why sell it? If the bag has a dump/overpressure valve, then it seems it is geared towards underwater deployment, but if it will instantly deflate at surface, it seems like it has lost its purpose.

Finally, why O why are these things so expensive? $90 for a vinyl tube with plastic spring loaded valve and a clip...??

Thanks for your replies

A dump valve wouldn't necessarily be an OP valve, but for this conversation I believe it is.

Neither style you are looking at will deflate upon hitting the surface.

You're right. These are a bit overpriced IMO for what you get. A month or so ago DAN was selling their SMB for about $60 on special - usual price $90. It's a nice marker that comes with all the bells and whistles - Chem light, signal mirror, whistle. It has an inflation valve you can use to fill from your lp BC hose AND the ability to fill by purging a reg underneth, and the op valve. Good quality, but it rolls up a bit large (again IMO) but I think it's a 7 foot SMB.

Good luck.

skdvr
08-15-2007, 16:01
If you go Here (http://www.divesports.com/IndexPages_Cat/closeout_cat.htm) about midway down the page are the SMB and lift bag. I bought one of each and really like them. I agree that the prices of these things is pretty crazy but these are not to bad.

Phil

Dash Riprock
08-15-2007, 16:50
Neither style you are looking at will deflate upon hitting the surface.



Then what is the purpose of the "self-sealing" feature? And why does it inflate the price so much?

Dash Riprock
08-15-2007, 16:52
If you go Here (http://www.divesports.com/IndexPages_Cat/closeout_cat.htm) about midway down the page are the SMB and lift bag. I bought one of each and really like them. I agree that the prices of these things is pretty crazy but these are not to bad.

Phil


I looked at those, my only problem is how big they are. 9" long when rolled up ??!!??

Id have to tow a trailer....

skdvr
08-15-2007, 16:56
If you go Here (http://www.divesports.com/IndexPages_Cat/closeout_cat.htm) about midway down the page are the SMB and lift bag. I bought one of each and really like them. I agree that the prices of these things is pretty crazy but these are not to bad.

Phil


I looked at those, my only problem is how big they are. 9" long when rolled up ??!!??

Id have to tow a trailer....

They are 7ft tall when they are inflated and they are not to bad when they are rolled up. If you do not want something that tall use the lift bag. It works well as a surface signal that you can shoot from depth... That is mainly what I use mine for.

Phil

Dash Riprock
08-15-2007, 17:03
They are 7ft tall when they are inflated and they are not to bad when they are rolled up. If you do not want something that tall use the lift bag. It works well as a surface signal that you can shoot from depth... That is mainly what I use mine for.

Phil


Its not the deployed size, its the stowed size. The roll will be 9 inches long (maybe I should say wide), I just dont have anywhere to put something like that.

The original See Me is 6 inches wide when rolled up and fits perfectly in my Zeagle Tank band pocket that came on my Stiletto.

skdvr
08-15-2007, 17:18
Oh, I see. I just clip mine to a D-Ring or to my BP. I keep the spool wrapped up in it and then it is ready to deploy when I need it. I have never used anything else so the size works for me...

Phil

Splitlip
08-15-2007, 20:49
If you go Here (http://www.divesports.com/IndexPages_Cat/closeout_cat.htm) about midway down the page are the SMB and lift bag. I bought one of each and really like them. I agree that the prices of these things is pretty crazy but these are not to bad.

Phil

Hi Phil:
Have you had the opportunity to compare it to a Carter 35# or a Dive Rite marker?
I ask, because I lost one of mine and need to replace it. Those 2 are the only ones I have seen that I know will fit in my storage sleeve and are sturdy enough for my liking.
In the link, it looks a lot like the Dive Rite and I was wondering if they might be the same OEM.
Thanks

Centerius
08-15-2007, 21:00
Neither style you are looking at will deflate upon hitting the surface.



Then what is the purpose of the "self-sealing" feature? And why does it inflate the price so much?

Quoting this because I didn't see an answering anywhere and I want to know, too.

namabiru
08-15-2007, 21:03
My questions are:

Is a dump valve always the same as an overpressure valve?

The Self Sealing bag says it wont deflate at the surface. Does this mean the "See-Me w/ Dump valve" will upon surfacing? If that is true, then why sell it? If the bag has a dump/overpressure valve, then it seems it is geared towards underwater deployment, but if it will instantly deflate at surface, it seems like it has lost its purpose.

Finally, why O why are these things so expensive? $90 for a vinyl tube with plastic spring loaded valve and a clip...??

Thanks for your replies

A dump valve wouldn't necessarily be an OP valve, but for this conversation I believe it is.

Neither style you are looking at will deflate upon hitting the surface.

You're right. These are a bit overpriced IMO for what you get. A month or so ago DAN was selling their SMB for about $60 on special - usual price $90. It's a nice marker that comes with all the bells and whistles - Chem light, signal mirror, whistle. It has an inflation valve you can use to fill from your lp BC hose AND the ability to fill by purging a reg underneth, and the op valve. Good quality, but it rolls up a bit large (again IMO) but I think it's a 7 foot SMB.

Good luck.

How long were the SMBs on sale? That's really quite good for the whole kit.

skdvr
08-15-2007, 21:54
If you go Here (http://www.divesports.com/IndexPages_Cat/closeout_cat.htm) about midway down the page are the SMB and lift bag. I bought one of each and really like them. I agree that the prices of these things is pretty crazy but these are not to bad.

Phil

Hi Phil:
Have you had the opportunity to compare it to a Carter 35# or a Dive Rite marker?
I ask, because I lost one of mine and need to replace it. Those 2 are the only ones I have seen that I know will fit in my storage sleeve and are sturdy enough for my liking.
In the link, it looks a lot like the Dive Rite and I was wondering if they might be the same OEM.
Thanks


No really I do not know. If you call dive sports ask for Phil, he is the owner and very nice and easy to deal with. Well actually everyone I have talked with there has been pleasent. I would ask them, they may be able to help you out. Those are the only two that I have used. They both seem well built and I would buy them again if anything happens to mine. If you want me to measure either of mine rolled up just let me know and I will do that...

Phil

Splitlip
08-15-2007, 22:03
If you go Here (http://www.divesports.com/IndexPages_Cat/closeout_cat.htm) about midway down the page are the SMB and lift bag. I bought one of each and really like them. I agree that the prices of these things is pretty crazy but these are not to bad.

Phil

Hi Phil:
Have you had the opportunity to compare it to a Carter 35# or a Dive Rite marker?
I ask, because I lost one of mine and need to replace it. Those 2 are the only ones I have seen that I know will fit in my storage sleeve and are sturdy enough for my liking.
In the link, it looks a lot like the Dive Rite and I was wondering if they might be the same OEM.
Thanks


No really I do not know. If you call dive sports ask for Phil, he is the owner and very nice and easy to deal with. Well actually everyone I have talked with there has been pleasent. I would ask them, they may be able to help you out. Those are the only two that I have used. They both seem well built and I would buy them again if anything happens to mine. If you want me to measure either of mine rolled up just let me know and I will do that...

Phil

I like Phil. I will call him. That is a great price.

Coaster
08-15-2007, 22:51
Neither style you are looking at will deflate upon hitting the surface.



Then what is the purpose of the "self-sealing" feature? And why does it inflate the price so much?

Quoting this because I didn't see an answering anywhere and I want to know, too.


"For those unfamiliar with the concept of a self sealing delayed smb, you inflate before ascending (Six inches above the open end is a flexible baffle) and as the smb shoots to the surface the air expands and closes off the baffle so the smb doesn't spill it's air at the surface thus remaining inflated."

Dash Riprock
08-16-2007, 10:18
Neither style you are looking at will deflate upon hitting the surface.



Then what is the purpose of the "self-sealing" feature? And why does it inflate the price so much?

Quoting this because I didn't see an answering anywhere and I want to know, too.


"For those unfamiliar with the concept of a self sealing delayed smb, you inflate before ascending (Six inches above the open end is a flexible baffle) and as the smb shoots to the surface the air expands and closes off the baffle so the smb doesn't spill it's air at the surface thus remaining inflated."


SO again the same question. Will the other Non-Self Sealing SMB lose its air at the surface? Others have said no...

Does Larry or Joe review these posts or should I just send it to them?

skdvr
08-16-2007, 11:28
There are SMB's that are just open on the bottom and when they shoot to the surface if they fall over they will deflate. For those type of SMB's you have to keep constant downward pressure on then to keep the bottom in the water. It is not that difficult from what I have been told. I have never personally used one. I like the ones that I have so I do not have to worry about it.

Yes Joe and Larry look at these. They probably do not look at all of them, becuse they do have the Dive Shop to run too. They would not care if you shot them a PM and asked them to take a look at this forum though.

Phil

Splitlip
08-16-2007, 11:42
Neither style you are looking at will deflate upon hitting the surface.



Then what is the purpose of the "self-sealing" feature? And why does it inflate the price so much?

Quoting this because I didn't see an answering anywhere and I want to know, too.

to clarify

there are open markers inflated with reg exhaust (think bag)
there are closed markers inflated oraly or with lp hose (think baloon)
and there are the self closing ones which can be inflated with the exhaust(a more complex device that has the best of both worlds)

Splitlip
08-16-2007, 11:50
Neither style you are looking at will deflate upon hitting the surface.



Then what is the purpose of the "self-sealing" feature? And why does it inflate the price so much?

Quoting this because I didn't see an answering anywhere and I want to know, too.


"For those unfamiliar with the concept of a self sealing delayed smb, you inflate before ascending (Six inches above the open end is a flexible baffle) and as the smb shoots to the surface the air expands and closes off the baffle so the smb doesn't spill it's air at the surface thus remaining inflated."


SO again the same question. Will the other Non-Self Sealing SMB lose its air at the surface? Others have said no...


you are unfamiliar with the the basic types of markers, one of which is a closed marker. Like your basic safety sausage.
A closed marker is not "self sealing" because it is always "sealed". It will not lose air if the bottom breaks the surface.

Dash Riprock
08-16-2007, 14:54
Let me put this another way.

On the "See-Me w/ Dump" for $40, there is a valve that releases air in event of overpressure while the bag is ascending. If the bottom of this bag were the open type, you wouldnt need the valve as the expanding air would simply burp out the bottom.

If the bottom of the $40 SMB allows air in, but then traps the air in the SMB, then what is the difference with the "Self -Sealing" model for $90?

ScubaToys Larry
08-16-2007, 18:38
Yes Dash... I think you got it. And yes... paying 40 - 50 bucks for a few flaps of material seems a bit silly.

So here's the deal. The one with no seal - just a big long open bottom tube... that one will spill air if you don't keep tension and keep it upright with the bottom below the water line.

Now we got a good deal on those - that's why they are pretty cheap - but they will be phased out. We've got some new ones that just hit, they should be about half way in price between the two options out there now, and Joe will work on getting pictures and specs on the page this week.

Just give a shout up to the shop, Joe is out today, but try tomorrow and I'm sure we can get you set up with the features and budget you want.

(PS... and the dragons??)

Dash Riprock
08-16-2007, 21:29
So here's the deal. The one with no seal - just a big long open bottom tube... that one will spill air if you don't keep tension and keep it upright with the bottom below the water line.


Thanks for the reply Larry, much appreciated.

I have just one remaining itch Larry, maybe you can scratch that too:

Why do they put a dump valve on the $40 SMB if the bottom is open??

By the way, if I could custom order a SMB, it would look like this:

6' Tall
6" wide/long when rolled up
Overpressure/dump valve
Does not spill air at surface
Can fill with regulator purge/exhaust
Dual color

Doghouse
08-17-2007, 09:37
Traveling up with your SMB as a lift bag, and you want to release some air to slow your ascent. That way your "treasure" would not reach the surface without you!

Dash Riprock
08-17-2007, 11:21
Traveling up with your SMB as a lift bag, and you want to release some air to slow your ascent. That way your "treasure" would not reach the surface without you!


That makes sense.

mike_s
08-17-2007, 11:45
Traveling up with your SMB as a lift bag, and you want to release some air to slow your ascent. That way your "treasure" would not reach the surface without you!


Not only that, but if you are using as a lift bag for a heavy object, t you don't want it to reach the surface and 'vent' any air and then *whack* you in the head on the way back down.

Buoyant1
10-02-2007, 20:16
Sorry to bring up an old thread...But I just got one of these:

http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=LargeSafety

(thanks to my Gift Certificate's!) And rolled up it's a HUGE bugger...I'm guessing that you just clip the HUGE thing to my left lower D-ring? And my reel to the other side? Any other suggestions on rigging?

Thanks guys!

Splitlip
10-02-2007, 20:40
Are you diving a back plate? I would bungee or surgical tube underneath behind the plate. I have even done this with a typical BC if it has a hard back pack.
I prefer the DiveRite quick draw sleeve if it fits. (let me know?)
With my Zeagle I slipped a big rolled up marker into one of the trim pockets.

Another option is to put two pieces of surgical tubing around your cylinder(s) and slip the rolled up marker into them (attached to a reel or spool at the hip).

Buoyant1
10-03-2007, 11:17
No no BP yet...that's possibly a next year purchase. I'm still diving (and loving) my Aeris Atmos XT...

At any rate, I looked at the hard plastic back of it, and there are slots for straps (cummerbund) on it, and I was considering "zip tying" one of those DiveRite pouches to it...that's an option..(any better ideas opposed to zip ties) But other than that I couldn't think of any other solution at this moment.

I'll be stopping at the LDS this week to pick up my cylinders and wil talk to my "guru" then to see if that's a viable option for now. Bungie-ing it to my tank is an idea, but I most likely will be using it with rentals on ocean dives, moreso than my regular quarry dives...but that's another option to mess with.

I just think it ended up being a BIG piece of gear to hang from my lower D ring...The reel on the other side is a pretty big piece fo have haning as well.....

Thanks so far!

Splitlip
10-03-2007, 11:30
No no BP yet...that's possibly a next year purchase. I'm still diving (and loving) my Aeris Atmos XT...

At any rate, I looked at the hard plastic back of it, and there are slots for straps (cummerbund) on it, and I was considering "zip tying" one of those DiveRite pouches to it...that's an option..(any better ideas opposed to zip ties) But other than that I couldn't think of any other solution at this moment.

I'll be stopping at the LDS this week to pick up my cylinders and wil talk to my "guru" then to see if that's a viable option for now. Bungie-ing it to my tank is an idea, but I most likely will be using it with rentals on ocean dives, moreso than my regular quarry dives...but that's another option to mess with.

I just think it ended up being a BIG piece of gear to hang from my lower D ring...The reel on the other side is a pretty big piece fo have haning as well.....

Thanks so far!

It IS a big piece of gear to hang off a d-ring. I happen to have an Atoms XT in the house as well as two quickdraw sleeves (attached to plates). I will see how they line up when I get home tonight. Another option for attaching the sleave to the hard back pack may be "quick links"

http://www.diveriteexpress.com/hardware/img/ql2.jpg

Edit:
It looks like the quick draw sleeve should work with hard backpack on the XT. I would avoid the zip ties though. Unless you get them and the entire package very snug, they will twist and break.
Let me know if your DSMB fits in the sleeve.
Thanks
edit again:
Just went back to your post. It looks like you purchased the marker without the self sealing bottom. That should fit in the sleeve.

Venio
10-03-2007, 11:35
I got one like this (http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=SelfSealingSafetyTube) on Monday from ST. Later the day Ii used it in the pool for my intro class and it was awesome. The bag seals and even if you let it fall on the water it would not deflate, just as stated ;). I'm pretty happy with it.

datamunk
10-03-2007, 22:39
they are a lil pricy... i have a 6' and i dont go in the wate rwithout it... except, im plannin a spring dive and im thinking of leaving it above water? ;)

but, yea, mine i can dump air from my reg into the bottom, or from my LP hose , but i dont see that being practical (could use mouth on it).. but, its pretty nice.. bought it fromthe dive shop i worked at.

do urself a favor and atleast dive with some sort of tube

mike_s
10-04-2007, 08:36
Are you diving a back plate? I would bungee or surgical tube underneath behind the plate. I have even done this with a typical BC if it has a hard back pack.


that's what I've done and it works great. Except I just did it on the bottom on my BC wing, not on a plate. you never know its there. It's also streamlined out of the drag of the current and won't get snagged on anything there.

I imagine you could do this with any BC. Just put it between your butt and where the tank rides down.



I prefer the DiveRite quick draw sleeve if it fits. (let me know?)
With my Zeagle I slipped a big rolled up marker into one of the trim pockets.


I tried the Dive Rite quick Draw and could barely get that thing in there ad the LDS shop counter. I figured that it would be very hard to do underwater and behind me, which is why I went with the above option.

There are a few people who've gotten this to work, which leads me to believe that they either had a smaller SMB, wadded it up more, or that the DiveRite QD sleeve once came in a slightly larger size than it does now.

There is a thread on here or Scubaboard about us trying to figure that out.

I talked to Scott Zeagle via PM and determined the Zeagle option was too small also for the ST SMB.

I can dig up that thread if anyone needs it.