PDA

View Full Version : weightlifting tip



emcbride81
11-06-2008, 21:20
Hey gang, just thought I would throw this out there. My degree is in Sports Medicine, and even though I am not currently practicing, I try to stay on top of trends in the various fields. I ran across an interesting book a while back and it talked about the importance of rest with weightlifting. How we are getting way too little rest.I decided to try it and I waited till now to talk about it because I wanted to test it out.

I stopped lifting entirely in April of 2006. I started up again after reading this book. I was inconsistent with my routine and ended up only doing chest most time. I lifted once a month for 4 months at a little park and rec facility. After joining a real gym with real equipment I decided to test my one rep maxes. My bench press was stronger than it had ever been...I set my own personal record!

Since then I have lifted just arms...for about a month and a half, only lifting every 2 weeks. My one rep max has gone up each workout and I just lifted the heaviest dumbbell I have ever lifted this evening! I am going to go back to total body workouts soon, I was just experimenting with this 2 week rest thing with one body part.

My rep scheme is 8x6x6 for one exercise (use your core exercise here BB curls, dips, bench, squat, deads) and then an secondary exercise for the same body part (DB curls,hammer curls, flyes, pressdowns etc) 8x6 only. Then no weights for 2 weeks and repeat.

Now this is also working for another guy I told, and he has been a consistent lifter for years
.
I haven't measured growth yet, I need to do that soon. Anyway, I figured I would put it out to my dive buddies here and see what kind of results you get!

Largo
11-06-2008, 21:39
1. What's the name of the book?

2. What can you do between, to burn off nervous energy?

emcbride81
11-06-2008, 22:08
I think it was called Train Smart....I have to go back to it. He talked a lot about isometric and partial rep training as well.

You can still do cardio and aerobic classes...heavy bag, plyometrics. I am actually thinking about doing a martial arts class with all of this called Krav Maga.

ScubaDude
11-06-2008, 22:33
Hey gang, just thought I would throw this out there. My degree is in Sports Medicine, and even though I am not currently practicing, I try to stay on top of trends in the various fields. I ran across an interesting book a while back and it talked about the importance of rest with weightlifting. How we are getting way too little rest.I decided to try it and I waited till now to talk about it because I wanted to test it out.

I stopped lifting entirely in April of 2006. I started up again after reading this book. I was inconsistent with my routine and ended up only doing chest most time. I lifted once a month for 4 months at a little park and rec facility. After joining a real gym with real equipment I decided to test my one rep maxes. My bench press was stronger than it had ever been...I set my own personal record!


Since then I have lifted just arms...for about a month and a half, only lifting every 2 weeks. My one rep max has gone up each workout and I just lifted the heaviest dumbbell I have ever lifted this evening! I am going to go back to total body workouts soon, I was just experimenting with this 2 week rest thing with one body part.

My rep scheme is 8x6x6 for one exercise (use your core exercise here BB curls, dips, bench, squat, deads) and then an secondary exercise for the same body part (DB curls,hammer curls, flyes, pressdowns etc) 8x6 only. Then no weights for 2 weeks and repeat.

Now this is also working for another guy I told, and he has been a consistent lifter for years
.
I haven't measured growth yet, I need to do that soon. Anyway, I figured I would put it out to my dive buddies here and see what kind of results you get!

Nice piece of info, thanks.

monant
11-07-2008, 06:42
Pete Sisco may be the author. He wrote a book called Train Smart but it is now titled Lifetime Strength.

hychang
11-07-2008, 09:05
Thank you for providing the tip. I am wondering if the routine you've discussed is for bulking up. The reason I ask is that I would like to get more definition and if possible increase strength. Do you have or does the book you read have a recommendation for a stretch routine. After 20+ years of working out with weights, I'm not quite as flexible as I once was. Normally this doesn't really concern me, except when I'm in the water. Any suggestions? Thanks.

3rdEye
11-07-2008, 09:12
so...you're saying you are lifting one day, full body workout, every two weeks?

Largo
11-07-2008, 09:36
Isn't Krav Maga the Israeli martial art?

Have you ever heard of Parkour? It's not a martial art, just a system for moving through urban environments. Sebastian Fuqua (spelling?) played the mad bomber in the big chase scene in Casino Royale. He holds seminars on it. That would be a really interesting way to stay fit.

emcbride81
11-07-2008, 11:12
so...you're saying you are lifting one day, full body workout, every two weeks?


What I am working on now would be a two day split...chest/back/shoulders/abs then legs/bi/tri. This isn't gospel, this is my interpretation of things I have read.

According to some info I read, so will do this on a Mon/Fri split, then wait two weeks. Others will just rotate Mondays. This Monday is workout 1, next Monday is workout two, so you still have two weeks between body parts.

emcbride81
11-07-2008, 11:13
Thank you for providing the tip. I am wondering if the routine you've discussed is for bulking up. The reason I ask is that I would like to get more definition and if possible increase strength. Do you have or does the book you read have a recommendation for a stretch routine. After 20+ years of working out with weights, I'm not quite as flexible as I once was. Normally this doesn't really concern me, except when I'm in the water. Any suggestions? Thanks.

No info on stretch routine, but that would be something to look into...other than generic routines given in texts, I have never seen anything outside of yoga or pilates.

emcbride81
11-07-2008, 11:14
Isn't Krav Maga the Israeli martial art?

Have you ever heard of Parkour? It's not a martial art, just a system for moving through urban environments. Sebastian Fuqua (spelling?) played the mad bomber in the big chase scene in Casino Royale. He holds seminars on it. That would be a really interesting way to stay fit.


Yes it is!! Very street smart in a damage them or disarm them quickly and then get the hell out of there kind of way.

That scene in CR rocked, I will look into that! :)

3rdEye
11-07-2008, 12:23
so...you're saying you are lifting one day, full body workout, every two weeks?


What I am working on now would be a two day split...chest/back/shoulders/abs then legs/bi/tri. This isn't gospel, this is my interpretation of things I have read.

According to some info I read, so will do this on a Mon/Fri split, then wait two weeks. Others will just rotate Mondays. This Monday is workout 1, next Monday is workout two, so you still have two weeks between body parts.

hmm, well, interesting theory, but I'm not sure if it is optimal for gains...especially given the low volume if you're only doing 3 sets of 2 exercises per muscle groups...but hey, everything works for a while

emcbride81
11-07-2008, 12:39
hmm, well, interesting theory, but I'm not sure if it is optimal for gains...especially given the low volume if you're only doing 3 sets of 2 exercises per muscle groups...but hey, everything works for a while

That is the thing though, there is no evidence that shows any more volume than that works. Research that was done in the days before GNC and the muscle magazines showed that 1 to 3 set isometric and partial rep training increased strength and size as well as if not better than standard full range high volume workouts with a significantly decreased risk of injury. Also, according to some of what I have read, high volume workouts actually may require 4-6 weeks of recovery to maximize results....and if you follow the workouts routines of the bodybuilders like Coleman, without taking steroids, you will inevitably overtrain.

I am going to start trying to find the acutal research instead of what I am reading in texts...if I do I will post it. In the mean time, if anyone wants to give this a whirl please post your results. I will continue to add to this as I go along as well.

3rdEye
11-07-2008, 12:52
hmm, well, interesting theory, but I'm not sure if it is optimal for gains...especially given the low volume if you're only doing 3 sets of 2 exercises per muscle groups...but hey, everything works for a while

That is the thing though, there is no evidence that shows any more volume than that works. Research that was done in the days before GNC and the muscle magazines showed that 1 to 3 set isometric and partial rep training increased strength and size as well as if not better than standard full range high volume workouts with a significantly decreased risk of injury. Also, according to some of what I have read, high volume workouts actually may require 4-6 weeks of recovery to maximize results....and if you follow the workouts routines of the bodybuilders like Coleman, without taking steroids, you will inevitably overtrain.

I am going to start trying to find the acutal research instead of what I am reading in texts...if I do I will post it. In the mean time, if anyone wants to give this a whirl please post your results. I will continue to add to this as I go along as well.

yeah, I think they tricky less sciency part of it is finding that sweet spot where you are doing the right amount of volume, and hitting that window where you are working your muscles again and not overtraining, but not resting them too long where they begin to atrophy. There's a lot of theories out there....anyway, 2 weeks seems like a very long time for a small volume of work. I've tried lots of different programs, including an HIT - one working set, one exercise per bodypart done twice a week approach, effective, but it requires a very high level of intensity. And also DFHT approach where you hit the same body part twice a week, when you were still sore, but, ramped your training volume/intensity up and down on a certain schedule to maximize healing....my take on the whole thing is, it's very different for everyone, and no one thing works ideally for everyone.

deepstop
11-09-2008, 08:58
There is a good description of Parkour in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkour)

maverick
11-11-2008, 20:32
Krav Maga I am thinking about learning this type of martial arts. I think it is a way 2 go.

James1010
11-11-2008, 21:35
I tried to continue to bulk up but I have started working on my cardio to help me in diving. I run and do some light muscle training that I learned from the Military. If you have any good work outs for just burning off some fat and not to bulk up (because I am just a stud and don't need it, no just kidding) that would be great.

fanatique
02-09-2009, 12:44
To burn fat an not bulk up, don't do the heaviest weights you can manage. Do a medium-sized weight and do high reps to maximise twitch muscle response. Mix it up with some interval cardio (fartlek) and you're good to go.

emt
02-09-2009, 13:22
hmm, well, interesting theory, but I'm not sure if it is optimal for gains...especially given the low volume if you're only doing 3 sets of 2 exercises per muscle groups...but hey, everything works for a while

That is the thing though, there is no evidence that shows any more volume than that works. Research that was done in the days before GNC and the muscle magazines showed that 1 to 3 set isometric and partial rep training increased strength and size as well as if not better than standard full range high volume workouts with a significantly decreased risk of injury. Also, according to some of what I have read, high volume workouts actually may require 4-6 weeks of recovery to maximize results....and if you follow the workouts routines of the bodybuilders like Coleman, without taking steroids, you will inevitably overtrain.

I am going to start trying to find the acutal research instead of what I am reading in texts...if I do I will post it. In the mean time, if anyone wants to give this a whirl please post your results. I will continue to add to this as I go along as well.

I'm assuming these results would vary with age groups. Probably teens and early 20's being able to recoup much faster and able to handle more reps with less days rest required . I recoup much slower at a older age (taking no additional hormone supplements).

bane51031
02-15-2009, 10:06
I do a 5 day routine, 30 minutes cardio with HR at 165 then do 30 minutes of strength training, basically complete upper body one day then the next is cardio with a complete lower body.I do cardio 5 days a week and work entire upper and lower 2 times a week each, I do a circut training with minimal rest between sets and this seems to work for me, also believe it or not sleep at night I typically used to sleep 4-5 hours a night but, studies show 8 hours is optimal, I am now getting 6 1/2 to 7 hours a night can't get myself to sleep 8 hours but, oh well.

As far as that long between workout I would be concerned with injury? As far as Krav, can be an intense workout.....

Monkeylemon
02-16-2009, 09:51
Isn't Krav Maga the Israeli martial art?

Have you ever heard of Parkour? It's not a martial art, just a system for moving through urban environments. Sebastian Fuqua (spelling?) played the mad bomber in the big chase scene in Casino Royale. He holds seminars on it. That would be a really interesting way to stay fit. You can find some amazing Parkour videos online, and there was a good New Yorker article on it in 2007...very, very cool.

cummings66
03-02-2009, 07:44
The Mayo Clinic has some info on strength training. What they have found through study is that you can do as many reps as you want, but you have no more gains than doing a simple routine like this.

Find the max amount of weight that you can handle and get 12 reps out of, up to about 15. You should be struggling on the last one. That's it, no more. Just do the 12 and you're done. Now, when you can handle that add more weight until you struggle on the 12th again, repeat. 2 to 3 times per week.

The study showed that this gives you the most gain and is equal to those other plans which take far longer and have all kinds of sets.

This is for strength training though.

fanatique
03-24-2009, 23:48
Yeah. Apparently for strength training the old way is the best. The whole light weight-high reps routine has been disproven, and the method the OP has highlighted, which I think originated from Pete Sisco, doesn't seem to have as much scientific consensus as the old standby cummings66 mentioned.

rmkrause
05-12-2009, 21:41
Best piece of advice I could give is to learn to do the exercises properly in a controlled manner - a lot of people go to the gym, and have bad form and use too much weight. Great book to learn proper form is "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe.

A lot of gaining muscle also comes down to diet - even if your gym routine is spot on, if you are not eating right you won't make the gains you want.

cummings66
05-14-2009, 09:16
Many of us aren't looking to gain muscle bulk, but rather muscle strength. Agreed that diet is important and that diet should be tailored to the goal you have in mind.

I'd love to have ripped abs, but at my age life in general is more important to me and I simply don't want to sacrifice things to get that look. Strength enough to carry double HP120's and gear, not being too fat, those are my goals. If by accident I end up with a 6 pack I'd be happy, but if not it's not going to kill me. Face it, I just want to be healthy enough to have fun and not live the health lifestyle. I will NEVER trim the fat off my ribeye steak, nor any other steak or roast. I love the fat, it's what makes meat tender and gives it flavor. I love butter in my baked potato, and when I make any meal I never ever use low fat substitutes. But I limit portion size. My favorite meal is Ribeye steak marbled with fat, steamed broccoli and a baked potato with bread. Bread pudding for desert.

Using the Mayo Clinic's plan I have upped my strength a LOT and to be honest I weigh more now than I did when I started, but my pants fit looser. I haven't really changed my diet, and I know if I did I'd drop the fat layer and look better, but my goals are a better cardiovascular system and to be stronger than I was.

Byte Me
05-14-2009, 10:12
I started in January doing a routine similar to bane51031, cardio every day (M-F) ranging from 20-30 minutes on the elliptical (I can't run, torn meniscus in my right knee) and the do a weight routine like cummings66 (Matt) mentioned, 12 reps with the last being a struggle but do three sets not just one. arms/chest back M&F, legs T&Th, shoulders W, abs every day. I went from 240 in January to 210 by mid April, I'm just over 6'2". So that seems to be working.

I changed my eating habits quite a bit as well, however, again like Matt I'm not willing to give up certain things and won't ever get to the total "lean and mean" look. I like beer too much!! Haven't cut down on beer at all and am not avoiding anything in particular other than staying away from fried foods, especially chips. Those are my weakness, even more than desserts. Put a bag of cool ranch or, hell, any doritos in front of me and I'll eat 1/2 a bag while making dinner!

Thanks for the tips and please, keep us posted on how it works. I'm not totally in this for strength, I just don't want to be repulsed when I look at myself in the mirror. I don't know how much longer I'm going to be able to pull off every day during the week workouts so something like you're talking about mixed in w/ cardio to either maintain or continue on the path I'm on would be perfect! Actually my goal weight is about 215 but I'd like to "move" a bit of the remaining belly up into the chest and arms...