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BarbadosSlim93
11-25-2008, 21:24
While at work today I got a Malware virus that pretended that I had a virus, and when I clicked the icon it loaded a larger program that started taking over my desktop, putting nasty porno links on my desktop and eating my resources. Within an hour it was crashing my computer, which had to be completely wiped out and have Windows reinstalled.

Why do people make viruses like this? It just ruins people's experience and could be very costly to repair the error. I didn't even download anything, it just came embedded in a video link.

RAWR

crosseyed95
11-25-2008, 22:00
While at work today I got a Malware virus that pretended that I had a virus, and when I clicked the icon it loaded a larger program that started taking over my desktop, putting nasty porno links on my desktop and eating my resources. Within an hour it was crashing my computer, which had to be completely wiped out and have Windows reinstalled.

Why do people make viruses like this? It just ruins people's experience and could be very costly to repair the error. I didn't even download anything, it just came embedded in a video link.

RAWR

Could be worse. At my current employer (but on a previous job), I came in during the morning and signed onto my computer. All kinds of porn programs came up on my computer (and I mean porn). I got blamed by everyone until the computer guys researched it and realized that the guy I share the computer with had been on some girlie sites the night before. He finally admitted that he was looking at the stuff when the computer started acting funny. He shut it off and didn't use it the rest of the night.

Needless to say, I bought the computer guys coffee for a week.

crosseyed95

gNats
11-26-2008, 07:00
While at work today I got a Malware virus that pretended that I had a virus, and when I clicked the icon it loaded a larger program that started taking over my desktop, putting nasty porno links on my desktop and eating my resources. Within an hour it was crashing my computer, which had to be completely wiped out and have Windows reinstalled.

Why do people make viruses like this? It just ruins people's experience and could be very costly to repair the error. I didn't even download anything, it just came embedded in a video link.

RAWR

That sux. Over the summer I somehow had something or other hit my pc (IT guys couldn't figure it out). Their solution was to swap my harddrive out with a new one. GGGGRRRRR. I had to reload all my "special" software and then download all the new patches and updates, not to mention revise all my customized Office toolbars...

I lost a week's productivity restoring my computer to its special-self. Not to mention the day and a half it took the IT guys to figure out they couldn't solve it.

I feel for you.

teerlkay
11-26-2008, 07:20
That sux. Over the summer I somehow had something or other hit my pc (IT guys couldn't figure it out). Their solution was to swap my harddrive out with a new one. GGGGRRRRR. I had to reload all my "special" software and then download all the new patches and updates, not to mention revise all my customized Office toolbars...

I lost a week's productivity restoring my computer to its special-self. Not to mention the day and a half it took the IT guys to figure out they couldn't solve it.

I feel for you.

---------------------------
sounds like you didn't buy your IT guys coffee for a week!

cummings66
11-26-2008, 11:27
I've had to fix problems like that on work computers, personally to me I really think sometimes that people who use computers at work should not be on any sites other than approved ones. It would cut down the downtime.

gNats
11-26-2008, 12:19
sounds like you didn't buy your IT guys coffee for a week!

Okay, what really sux is I am in the IT department. Apparently, sending off memos about following security access procedures puts you at jeopardy for getting an idunno when something goes boom!

Gumby
11-26-2008, 13:38
Practice safe browsing:

FireFox Browser (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/) + No Script Add-on (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/722) = Win!

ScubaDude
11-26-2008, 18:50
I've had to fix problems like that on work computers, personally to me I really think sometimes that people who use computers at work should not be on any sites other than approved ones. It would cut down the downtime.

Schools use firewalls for those reasons. Makes me wonder why this isn't a standard setup in the business world.

ScubaDude
11-26-2008, 19:08
While at work today I got a Malware virus that pretended that I had a virus, and when I clicked the icon it loaded a larger program that started taking over my desktop, putting nasty porno links on my desktop and eating my resources. Within an hour it was crashing my computer, which had to be completely wiped out and have Windows reinstalled.

Why do people make viruses like this? It just ruins people's experience and could be very costly to repair the error. I didn't even download anything, it just came embedded in a video link.

RAWR

Probably from the guy you mentioned in your "SCAMMERS" thread. :smilie39:

Skred
11-26-2008, 19:38
I've had to fix problems like that on work computers, personally to me I really think sometimes that people who use computers at work should not be on any sites other than approved ones. It would cut down the downtime.

Schools use firewalls for those reasons. Makes me wonder why this isn't a standard setup in the business world.

Speaking as an IT manager, I can tell you that firewalls are standard for any business who wants a computing environment with any semblance of stability. How tightly they are or are not locked down, well that is another matter entirely. Things have changed in the last 5 years or so, but it used to be common in my part of the midwest anyway that university networks serving the student body at large (dorms, common areas, etc.) were pretty much the wild, wild west and some didn't even require virus protection.

While a firewall can help manage things as far as what can and cannot be accessed, its primary mission is not that but to guard the "gates to the castle". The device that is best suited to that task is an internet content filter.

Brandon Belew
11-26-2008, 22:54
I've had to fix problems like that on work computers, personally to me I really think sometimes that people who use computers at work should not be on any sites other than approved ones. It would cut down the downtime.

Schools use firewalls for those reasons. Makes me wonder why this isn't a standard setup in the business world.

Speaking as an IT manager, I can tell you that firewalls are standard for any business who wants a computing environment with any semblance of stability. How tightly they are or are not locked down, well that is another matter entirely. Things have changed in the last 5 years or so, but it used to be common in my part of the midwest anyway that university networks serving the student body at large (dorms, common areas, etc.) were pretty much the wild, wild west and some didn't even require virus protection.

While a firewall can help manage things as far as what can and cannot be accessed, its primary mission is not that but to guard the "gates to the castle". The device that is best suited to that task is an internet content filter.

Yep, like the sonic wall or bluecoat. We used sonic wall at a local high school and it works pretty good as a hardware content filter. Bluecoat my old company used, it was setup stupid restrictive - but I figured out how to get around it :D

thagar
11-27-2008, 19:51
What anti virus do you guys suggest? I had AVG but they stopped updating it for free.

Skred
11-27-2008, 20:03
What anti virus do you guys suggest? I had AVG but they stopped updating it for free.

I use the free version of AVG and it is working just fine. Last automatic update was this morning.

Airborne!
11-27-2008, 20:59
Of the free AV programs AVG is a decent program. The free license works for one year and then you go to their site and get another free serial number. It warns you that it is expiring, but most people just ignore it and once it expires it usually will not tell you anymore, but won’t update until you do. Avast is actually better, but perhaps a little more anal about catching things that might not be true viruses. Still, I use Avast on my computers that matter the most. Norton I personally would avoid. It’s not a bad system, but many virus designers target it specifically more than others. I have seen more Norton AV systems disabled by a virus than any other.

You can also add a free personal software firewall such as Zone Alarm or use Comodo if you really want to get down to it. Zone Alarm is a little more user friendly as it basically allows you to allow or disallow any program or file access to the local network or Internet. Comodo goes much further in allowing you to control what almost any file or program on your computer does anywhere on or off your computer. Are they perfect? No, but they allow you to stem the flow by keeping the virus from calling in its virus buddies from the Internet and thus further corrupting your system.

Personally I cannot think of a time where I have seen a computer infected without the user doing something that precipitated the attack. They either went to a website they should not have, opened a file or email that they knew they should not or installed a cute piece of software that promised fortune and glory if installed…or at least a cute toolbar. :)

People ask me all the time why their virus scanner did not catch the virus and I tell them its because you invited it in the front door and the bouncer, your AV Scanner, just looked the other way when you did.

Nemrod
11-28-2008, 16:44
I have four laptops I own (including my wife's) plus my work laptop I use at work and when I travel I always carry a personal laptop in addition to my work laptop so that I don't risk the company laptop since I connect to the company via VPN.

Never really had virus problems. My wife's little Acer has McAfee Internet Security Suite, my Dell XPS has Kaspersky Internet Security, my old internet warrier, a beat and bashed and highly modified old Averatec has Norton Internert Security and my work laptop, a Lenova, has McAfee Internet Security corporate suite and Credant.

What worked for me for a long time instead of a "one branded suite" was Zone Alarm firewall (free version), Norton AV(subscription) and Spybot Search and Destroy(free).

The AVG AV (free) is not an active program, I have used it and it only scans at scheduled intervals or on demand, it does not automatically scan websites etc. It does have a "safe" check mark if the site has been reported safe.

You cannot really use Windows Firewall, I turn it off and use as I said, either Zone Alarm or if using a "suite" the supplied personal firewall.

My old Averatec also has Ghost Surf, Hide My IP, Spy Sweeper etc installed on top of and along with the Norton Internet Security.

I have no virus issues.

My boss got a new Mac Book, it immediantly got a virus and crashed. He now runs Norton for Mac I believe it is, soooo, don't believe the Mac BS about not needing a firewall and a AV program. Viruses and trojans are all over the net, you must use POWERFULL AV and firewalls and spy detection programs. Given the state of affairs I prefer an all in one subscription suite now but you can put together a decent freeware solution:

Zone Alarm Free
AVG Free
Spybot Search and Destroy Free

If using a free AV like AVG Free just stay off questionable websites and do a manual scan immediantly after any suspicious activity. AVG Free is somewhat lacking on virus removal tools as well, be aware of that.

You ask why people create malware, because they can, because they philsh info, because they get your ID or credit card numbers, steal your identity and use your computer as a bot to hide their destructive activities. Basically, it is what our liberal friends should understand about human nature, some people are just bad, some are very bad and some are just evil, evil exists even on the net. Why, because God allowed Free Choice, to be succint.

N

Nemrod
11-28-2008, 16:52
Oh, BTW, I really like the Kaspersky Internet Security. It is not a resource hog, runs quietly with little imput from the user (me) and is a powerful solution. The Zone Lab Internet Security Suite is very good, and uses the Kaspersky AV engine.

N

Sansho
11-28-2008, 17:31
My boss got a new Mac Book, it immediantly got a virus and crashed. He now runs Norton for Mac I believe it is, soooo, don't believe the Mac BS about not needing a firewall and a AV program.
Running a firewall (OS X comes with one) and an AV program is good practice in a mac environment, however, I find the characterization of your boss's issue troubling ... was he running Windows under OS X bootcamp? There just aren't enough mac virus's in the wild to characterize a Windows-like 'immediately got a virus and crashed'. While there certainly was some issue that caused the boss's MacBook to crash, crediting that to a virus is a stretch ... not impossible if the boss did something stupid, but still a stretch.

Nemrod
11-28-2008, 18:11
My boss got a new Mac Book, it immediantly got a virus and crashed. He now runs Norton for Mac I believe it is, soooo, don't believe the Mac BS about not needing a firewall and a AV program.
Running a firewall (OS X comes with one) and an AV program is good practice in a mac environment, however, I find the characterization of your boss's issue troubling ... was he running Windows under OS X bootcamp? There just aren't enough mac virus's in the wild to characterize a Windows-like 'immediately got a virus and crashed'. While there certainly was some issue that caused the boss's MacBook to crash, crediting that to a virus is a stretch ... not impossible if the boss did something stupid, but still a stretch.

Sorry to burst your bubble but that is exactly what happened and no he was not using Windows on Parallels or Boot Camp and what he did that was stupid was surf without an active anti virus. The computer slowly went down over several uses and then the keyboard locked inexplicably due to some sort of malware so perhaps I was overlly liberal in the use of "crash," ok, it ceased operating. He took it back to the Mac Store (he and I bought a Mac on the same day--I took mine back, didn't like it, long story). They too told him they had never seen such a thing, troubling, yes, as Mac computers become more mainstream they become an equal target and like the Windows firewall is like a gate without a fence because everybody knows the holes, do you really think hackers and virus/malware writers cannot do the same thing for a Mac, really now. There is always somebody out there with the desire to ruin your day. The reason Windows is such a target, it is on more than 90% of computers, it is a consistent software platform were Mac OS is Unix and has had several flavors sort of in the same light as Linux with it's various distributions, Ubuntu and Fedora and Red Hat etc.

From a Mac user website:

"What about spyware targeting the Macintosh?Spyware is a type of malicious software (malware) that monitors computer use. Depending on how over zealous the marketing is, the term spyware can refer to anything from benign cookies to dangerous keyloggers. In general, spyware is a Web threat and as such Mac users are vulnerable."

Regardless of what system you use, you must have a firewall, an active anti-virus and maybe even an addtional spyware program. Usually you do not run but one firewall, if a firewall is part of a suite or purchased (or free) then the Windows Firewall should be disabled. As well you should generally run only one anti virus program but it is fairly common for heavy surfers to utilize two spy removal/detection programs, as to how to accomplish that with a Mac, sorry, cannot help you there. These are the things I ahve been told, I have no virus issues, I of course avoid certain types of website. However, several months ago I was doing a search for neoprene rubber. I wasn't paying close attention to what it was I clicked on in the google search, well, let me say, it was not a neoprene rubber supplier that popped up. It is very easy to unintentionally get sucked down a rabbit hole.

Oh, I see, you did not like my use of "immediantly" and that I agree was not a good word choice, let me reword, My boss got a new Mac Pro and immediantly took it home and began using it without an AV program in place and the result was that it aquired some sort of issue that caused it to be returned. Now he has an AV program running, no further issues have surfaced and he loves his Mac as much or more than I hated mine.

N

Nemrod
11-28-2008, 18:35
Let me say one other thing then all the Mac people can continue in peace, I did not like my Mac because it cannot run any software I own. I have several professional use applications I utilize that were very expensive and are heavy users of resources. Running them in Parallels was just not inspring my confidence. In fact, they did not seem to work well in that environment, I can barely get them to run on a Bill Machine much less taking them cross platform, lol. If I were just using my computers for surfing, video rendition and photos etc then I am sure the Mac would have been a good match, unfortunately, I use my computers for work and serious professional applications. It is kind of hard to circular file software that cost 1,500 dollars or more just so I can have a cool computer with an apple on the lid and if I am going to run Windows in Parallels or Boot Camp, what the hay, just use a PC.

I think what I am going to do is get me a Mac Book, the one with the 13 inch screen, just use it for play and surfing and keep my PCs for doing the "computer" stuff.

Let me say again, if you are not a computer person (which I am not) and have a PC based computer and want a simple Internet Security program just pop for the Kaspersky IS (3 computer license), got mine at Wal Mart for 49 dollars a few months ago I think it was and then let it load from the Kaspersky website using the key on my disc to activate, that way I started out with a fresh update from the get go. Hope that helps, bye.

N

maverick
11-28-2008, 20:21
<AVG> has been working 4 awhile on my computer with no problems.

thagar
11-28-2008, 20:31
Thanks guys I just downloaded the new version of AVG.

BarbadosSlim93
11-28-2008, 21:31
While at work today I got a Malware virus that pretended that I had a virus, and when I clicked the icon it loaded a larger program that started taking over my desktop, putting nasty porno links on my desktop and eating my resources. Within an hour it was crashing my computer, which had to be completely wiped out and have Windows reinstalled.

Why do people make viruses like this? It just ruins people's experience and could be very costly to repair the error. I didn't even download anything, it just came embedded in a video link.

RAWR

Probably from the guy you mentioned in your "SCAMMERS" thread. :smilie39:

No doubt. You figure he could use those talents to do something other than making computer viruses like finding a job, or paying his bills... :smiley2:

Nemrod
11-28-2008, 22:35
Sorry, one more post on the subject.

1. Build it yourself free security suite number one:

a. Zone Alarm Free for your firewall:

Firewall Freeware, Free Firewall Protection Software, Firewall Shareware: ZoneAlarm® Free Firewall Software. (http://www.zonealarm.com/store/content/catalog/products/zonealarm_free_firewall.jsp)

b. AVG Free for your antivirus:

AVG Free - Download antivirus and antispyware software for Windows XP and Vista (http://free.avg.com/)


c. Spybot Search and Destroy, spyware/malware detection and removal:

The home of Spybot-S&D! (http://www.safer-networking.org/en/download/)

2. Build it yourself secuity suite number two:

a. Firewall, just leave your full of holes Windows Firewall engaged and hope for the best.

b. AVG Free as above or Avast AV:

FREE antivirus software with spyware protection: avast! Home Edition (http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html)

c. Windows Defender for spyware detection:

Windows Defender: Home Page (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/defender/default.mspx)

You must run all three, a firewall alone or an antivirus program alone will not defend your computer against online threats. You can purcahse All in One security suites as I suggested earleir or you can do some research and put together your own. Frankly, I have low confidence in Windows Firewall and just turn it off using more powerfull software solutions. Zone Alarm is a fairly tough firewall. If you are not willing to pay for a subscription--ie free--- then your options are limited, google up your own free suite, the ones above may or may not work (no guarantee on my part) and then you get into Vista vs XP etc so evaluate within your own computing environment. Hope this helps.

PS, also use Mozilla FireFox for your browser instead of IE.

Firefox 3 download (http://fox-now.info/firefox/)

N

coral cowgirl
11-28-2008, 23:10
Had AVG free 8, thanks for tip on Spybot, installed it too and made small donation.

thagar
11-29-2008, 10:13
I had a firewall that gave me the location and IP address of everyone that tried to break into my computer. I forget the name of it, I only had a 90 day trial.

Nemrod
11-29-2008, 12:19
Use the website, Shields Up for free testing of your firewall.

Google "Shields Up." I cannot link you for my own security reasons, lol.

Hit the Proceed Button and then do the Common Ports test and the All Service Ports test in particular. There should be nothing but solid green in the result.

A good result here is no guarantee of a secure computer, meaning you have a good firewall, but it is a start. If you have no firewall then even little on pea picker me could break into your computer, not that I would of course. ;)

N

ReefHound
11-29-2008, 13:21
I had a firewall that gave me the location and IP address of everyone that tried to break into my computer. I forget the name of it, I only had a 90 day trial.

That's not necessarily a good thing. The hacker can scan for that counter probe and use it against you. Best to operate in stealth and remain silent.

Nemrod
11-29-2008, 13:27
I had a firewall that gave me the location and IP address of everyone that tried to break into my computer. I forget the name of it, I only had a 90 day trial.

That's not necessarily a good thing. The hacker can scan for that counter probe and use it against you. Best to operate in stealth and remain silent.

Exactly right I am told, if your firewall is pinging back, probing back, that is kind of like the Clingons coming out of cloak to fire. You don't want that. A good firewall will mask your computer and will not respond to pings from malicious computers etc.

N

rxatrix
11-29-2008, 14:55
As for me, I don't care how you got the virus, just want to know how to get rid of it. At work I'm using Cisco 2821 routers with the security devices built in. Allowed us to get rid of the fire walls and still protect the castle from intrusion. Cisco 3560 layer 3 switches, which allow us to lock down a certain port on on any given segment of the network to isolate the pc until it can be "de-natured". This is particularly useful if you're running multiple VLANS. Anti virus is McAfee 8.5i enterprise. The scanners are set to scan every 2 hours and updates every hour with very little drain on system performance. As for content filtering, sonic and barracuda are nice if you want to protect your dentist's office but for the size of my enterprise, I've found that Web Sense is the ****s. The remote appliances VPN to the master server once an hour for updates. Plus Web sense monitors for malicious code on websites, if detected, pushes the button and automatically locks out the web site, informs the host master that malicious code has been detected on the site, and won't unlock that site until it confirms that the code has been removed.
If your IT department allows remote VPN log in, suggest a Cisco 3005 Concentrator. The encryption level is 168 bit 3DES and offers it's own built in fire wall and anti virus/malware detection software. Meaning if it detects any nasties on the remote pc, it won't allow it to connect to the Corporate LAN.
As for home, I use a Cisco 851w wireless router. Been running for 2 years with out any Anti-Virus software. However, I do like Avast. The free home version is just fine.
Happy Holidays, think before you click, and safe computing to all!

Nemrod
11-29-2008, 19:56
Just to touch on the subject of router firewalls, not an expert, y'all may be, but a router hardware firewall does not really substitute for a software firewall. If you surf the web, open an attachment in an email etc I don't think a hardware firewall will help you. Not sure if we are talking laptop here either but since most people today are using and buying laptop computers just consider that as soon as you pick up and go with your portable computer whatever hardware firewall your router had will not be there for you. Any portable computer that gets carried around to public wifi spots, hotel wifi and whatever really needs a security software application. Or, there is the possibility of running Parallels and then run Windows for your software aps and then surf using Ubuntu Linux in Parallels. Not sure that is a workable solution, I am trying to play with that now but as of now I am mostly lost with it. Ubuntu is a Linux distrubuiton, like the Unix based Mac OSX it is virus resistant due in part to it's low volume profile on the net.

N

DMWiz
11-29-2008, 21:59
b. AVG Free as above or Avast AV:

FREE antivirus software with spyware protection: avast! Home Edition (http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html)

N

I was an AVG Free believer until you posted this link to Avast... It found stuff that AVG Free simply could not!

I now run Spybot S&D and Avast

Thanks for the link.

Wiz

Gilligan
11-29-2008, 22:56
Ok... let me give you guys my run down on this stuff.

I make my living off computer consulting... PERSONALLY I run absolutely NOTHING! Been going "comando" for nearly 3 years? I got tired of those resource hogs always running and never really doing anything. Once I started using Opera internet browser and "Mike's host file" (google it... but it's not really up to date and I need to find a newer one) I stopped using any AV programs. I have YET to get a SINGLE virus or malware get onto any of my MANY systems I personally use. And I will go to some SHADY websites.

Do I recommend this for my clients? No, not really... I'm also not an idiot and won't download any cute cursors or install junk toolbars or "free" games. I tell them about my experience hoping they will use Opera (or at least stay away from IE).

I typically install Avira for anti-virus and have had pretty good luck with it cleaning up other people's viruses, I also install Malwarebytes, Spybot, Adaware and that host file. I don't run any of the "real time" apps from the malware programs, just the AV app... Avira seems to have a minimal foot print on resources which is why I choose it.

I maintain about 25 computers in the gulf of mexico for one company and those monkeys will get into LOTS of trouble and they really don't get into much with those applications installed and ESPECIALLY if I can keep them from finding and using IE after I hide all the short cuts. ;)

I really can't STAND software firewalls as most people have NO clue how to use one so they really give a false sense of security because most people "allow" everything that pops up rendering it useless. Or the other case is they block something they need and then an app won't work properly.

Hardware boxes, even as simple as a home linksys router, work really well for blocking the worms and trash that try to get in on their own... like previously stated if you invite the rouge app in by installing something dumb then there is little you can do about it. And you probably aren't smart enough to know what to do when the software firewall pops up and gives you a prompt to respond to once you've been foolish enough to install this app.

Main thing to get from all of this... DON'T use Internet Explorer!!

Nemrod
11-29-2008, 23:07
Well, glad it was helpful. I think the Avast probably is better than the AVG at least in the free editions. Here is another I forgot to include earlier:

Free Firewall Protection Software Best Firewall Computer Security Free Personal Firewall (http://www.personalfirewall.comodo.com/download_firewall.html)

I found all this free stuff by our mutal friend google over the last year when I was working through some "issues."

Gilligan, on the browsers, what is your take on FireFox and this Google Chrome? Why do you prefer Opera over FireFox? Yes, I agree, IE is just a mess since it is so prevalent it is the application that get's written for by the bad guys not to mention a few holes in the dike I suppose? Also, I concur, several IT guys I know also don't use AV programs or firewalls BUT they are IT guys who know how to fix things and know what to do and not to do. For regular computer dummies like me and the rest AV programs do provide some help as do firewalls. I also don't go to site, intentionally, that have crap on them. The threat of malware may be exaggerated, you think, in order to sell security? In any case an IT guy may can go "commando" but I doubt many of we ordinary types would survive long on the net without.

N

Gilligan
11-30-2008, 09:26
I agree... like I said, I always set people up with Avira which is free AV software.

Opera is honestly just my preference after trying out just about everything out there. It has been doing what firefox and google is just getting around to doing for years. Google's Chrome does have some nice features that I'd like to give a look at, but honestly I'm not sure I trust google... I like that it's Open Source but google is becoming a HUGE giant and there have been reports of some "tracking" going on by Chrome and that has me concerned.

I don't really use Firefox very often (only if a site doesn't want to cooperate with Opera) so I really can't say much about it's security, though I imagine it to be perfectly ok... same with Chrome.

For the record, I don't "fix things" because I honestly have NEVER gotten anything. I will go to any sites to test out the security of Opera and I never have been infected in ~3 years. I really think using my setup you would have to install something to get in trouble. My daughter does it because she likes all those silly games and some of them come with payloads and Avira has always helped to get rid of those. Her computer has been relatively clean considering she's a 14 year old that lives on myspace and plays all those free games. :)

Brandon Belew
11-30-2008, 10:34
I love google chrome, I could care less if it does any tracking. Only thing that it would track would just be browsing habits for targeted advertising which doesn't actually hurt anyone. The page loads are stupid quick compared to opera / ff / ie, it blocks bad sites automatically, etc. The one downside to chrome at the moment is no mac osx support yet. If your super paranoid w/ chrome you can launch an 'Incognito window' which doesn't log browsing habits to your history - and I assume if they are gathering browsing habits to either improve service or target advertising incognito wouldn't be sending them data.

And now for a bunch of links

General Privacy : Privacy options overview - Google Chrome Help Center (http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=114836&topic=14667)
General Privacy : Safe Browsing - Google Chrome Help Center (http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=99020&topic=14667)
General Privacy : Privacy, unique IDs, and RLZ - Google Chrome Help Center (http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=107684&topic=14667)
General Privacy : Incognito mode - Google Chrome Help Center (http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=95464&topic=14667)
Google Chrome (http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en-US/privacy.html)
General Privacy : Usage statistics and crash reports - Google Chrome Help Center (http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=96817&topic=14667)

Gilligan
11-30-2008, 10:58
Incognito DOES still send data... that is just for personal privacy on your own pc.

Google is quietly becoming a monster... I do (currently) respect them more than the other big search engines because they actually resisted the government in turning over search query logs... but they have been "secretly" buying up essentially ALL the bandwidth in the country under child companies and this concerns me as bandwidth needs grow and grow... when all our ISP's run out of bandwidth and can't meet current demands who will they have to turn to to get bandwidth? Genious, especially when you are a major player in creating this bandwidth demand.

Maybe I'm paranoid... but as they say... doesn't mean they're still not out to get you. ;)

Brandon Belew
11-30-2008, 11:26
Google isn't evil, they just want to change the internet for the better while adopting and pushing open source to allow the people to shape the internet. They want to push the w3 to change and evolve into making the internet more then what it is. They want to usher in the next generation of the internet. They gave a nice long speech about it during the keynote at Google IO this year ( I attended ).

Google Gears for example, they want w3 to make it a standard that way gears or some open source equivalent will be standard in all browsers. Gears makes web apps more then web apps. It allows you to create truly offline apps, or search locally on your computer. For example - google docs and myspace. One of the lead developers for Myspace gave the presentation on Gears at Google IO. They use it in the 'private messaging' portion of the site, not for everyone, just for people with hundreds of friends and thousands of messages. By utilizing gears, they are pushing the search functionality off to your local machine instead of the server. This obviously makes the search quicker, and saves processing power on myspaces end. Now google docs, you can w/ gears run docs while not on the net. You can write papers, make spreadsheets, make forms, etc offline. When you plug back in, it syncs automatically. If you wanted to, you could completely get rid of Microsoft Office and use googles free service to accomplish the same things.

Android - Google is wanting to push a truly cross platform mobile development platform codename Android. Make it easier for mobile phone developers to launch their apps on every phone - not having to develop a new product for each OS.

I believe googles mission is noble.

Nemrod
11-30-2008, 12:07
Going back to my earlier post thanks to Gilligan I want to add a do it yourself option number three:

3. Free antivirus - Avira AntiVir (http://www.free-av.com/) and then run the Spybot S&D I already linked to earlier.

Now, to be sure, this combination I have not tested, the others I have actually used bot it LOOKS GOOD, lol!

A word concerning Norton, piad or otherwise, it just does not play nice in the sandbox with Zone Alarm and Spybot S&D and a bunch of other programs. Spybot S&D has a "teatimer" they call it that if I fully undersand is part of it's scanning engine, Norton does not like it and can freeze the computer. Likewise, Zone Alarm Free or paid has a "truevector" service that is also part of it's function. Norton hates it and will again lock and freeze. My solution, ditch Norton AV. If you run Norton then run Norton Internet Security as a stand alone paid subscription.


Given what Gilligan has stated and what I know some savvy computer people do you could do without anything--maybe. How?

1. Avoid neferious websites (ok, guys, you know the ones).
2. Avoid foreign web pages
3. Never open an email or attachment unless a personal message--that makes sense---is included from a person you know well.
4. Avoid downloading anything from the net aside from MS updates and browser updates etc.
5. Use Firefox as a browser, do not use IE
6. Never--ever---send personal data, credit card, do no shopping or online banking.
7. Use PayPal with a seperate account that is limited in funds to limit your losses.
8. Back up important files, pics, documents on a mini drive like the Maxtor One Touch Mini 4. Why back up, so, lol, you can relaod/reformat Windows when you inevitably get infected, and then reinstall your files from the mini drive.

If you are going to buy things on line, pay bills, online banking, etc, then I still think you better load up your machine with security software, right now, right or wrong, I like the Kaspersky and I pay for it.

I know you younger people out there could do well with the suggested "free" suites because you are more savvy that us 50 somethings. Since as I said earlier, for some reason I have come to have a fleet of computers under my care (poor things) and some I have installed paid subscriptions and some I am using the do it yourself free solutions, both, so far, with good success. Antedotal only, I know, but so far, knock on wood, no real virus/malware problem for over five years. Now, I have had burned out cooling fans, crashed drives, all mechanical issues and nothing to do with malware.

Well, that is about all I know, good luck to you all.

N

ReefHound
11-30-2008, 12:12
You sound too much like a Google exec or spokesman. :smiley2:

I think Google's mission, like all publicly traded corporations, is to gain market share and generate profits.

rxatrix
11-30-2008, 12:13
Brandon,
I think the cross platform software you're talking about is actually being developed by Wind River (http://www.windriver.com/index.html). It will be available for all mobile devices and will allow any application to run on hand sets regardless of the the OS i.e. Palm, Windows CE, Iphone, Android, etc.

ReefHound
11-30-2008, 12:32
Nem, I also haven't used an AV program in 7 years and have had no issues. I have a few installed and scan every few months just to see but don't run them routinely. I do scan with spybot software more often. Most importantly, a software firewall behind a hardwall firewall, your Shields Up site found nada but a 100% stealth computer. Of course I keep a backup but only needed it once when my hard drive wore out after 5 years.

I'd take issue with half of your list. It's not what you do but who you do it with. I download lots of files... from 1st party trusted sources. I don't download bootleg mp3 or video files or anything from mirror sites or rogue domain extensions. I do all my banking and much of my shopping online. Encryption and security of your private data has nothing to do with an AV program. Outlook Express for email since it doesn't do scripts. Never click on unknown links or load stupid screensavers/toolbars/games/etc. Use Firefox for a browser with all security options checked and cookies off. If a trusted site needs a cookie then I put them in manually as an exception.

Nemrod
11-30-2008, 13:12
I am concerned about keyloggers etc, which an AV program would not be ths suitable defence. You have to realize, I was NOT recommending a AV program (alone), I was recommending a security suite, subscription or homemade. As you say, it is the who you do it with, not the what but that is where the "savvy" part comes in. Most of us really aren't.

A "suite" is a defensive triade that consits of 1) a firewall (hardware or software or both) 2) an AV program (that actively updatres and scans is preferred) and 3) a "spy" removal/detection program that scans for keyloggers, neferious cookies and scripts, looks for changes and other "bot" behavoirs, worms etc. There could be a fouth leg 4) some sort of PC clean up and fix up tool which again, savvy computer users don''t need because they can do it themself. Which of these compnents you can do without is dependent upon your skills and knowledge and wisdom. If you get it wrong, oh well, there is always reloading Windows. ;)

Thanks for your clarifications and corrections, I don't word things all that well and you have some excellent points and information, thank you very much, I will take them into use.

Here is a question, how long have you been able to run a computer without having to reformat the drive? The longest I have gone is about three years and that was a result of a failed drive. I hate having to reload Windows, the Maxtor drive I mentioned has a Safetyy Drill program that supposedly can reinstall your hard drive to a new one. Hmmm, well, it mostly sorta worked when I had to reinstall a new hard drive.

N

ReefHound
11-30-2008, 14:17
I've not had to reformat a drive in over ten years, of course I had the hard drive failure a few years ago. It was so corrupt I simply replaced it though I was able to do some tricks to save most of my data. Reinstalling all of the software again was a pain though. I also have an external Maxtor One Touch 250GB drive.

Brandon Belew
11-30-2008, 14:20
.....
Here is a question, how long have you been able to run a computer without having to reformat the drive? The longest I have gone is about three years and that was a result of a failed drive. I hate having to reload Windows, the Maxtor drive I mentioned has a Safetyy Drill program that supposedly can reinstall your hard drive to a new one. Hmmm, well, it mostly sorta worked when I had to reinstall a new hard drive.

N

I used to reinstall my gaming rig once every couple months. Since I stopped gaming i've managed 2 years. It's dead right now due to hard drive failure. Haven't had the motivation to bring it back to life, no need to since I don't game anymore.

My mac, only when upgrading OS. When I do that I archive and install if possible. My hard drive is getting ready to fail in it, but that doesn't require a reinstall unless I don't order a drive in time. :smiley21:

Airborne!
11-30-2008, 15:31
Well here is my take on not running AV solutions. Do I do it at times on some of my machines? Yes I do, but I would definitely not recommend it to most people. To do it you better be extremely IT and Internet savvy and even then it’s a hit or miss situation.

Take for example some worms. Your friend or associate gets a worm that shows no signs of infection…which is a hallmark of good worm design. It then pops into his outlook email system and sends worm infected emails to all those in his address book. Without a virus scanner you open your “friends” email and now your infected and you have no clue. You later install an AV scanner to check your system, but a well designed worm has already been able to set itself up to conceal itself from future AV scans and your scanner will show no infection.

So now the worm just sits quietly and does its job. Either monitoring your system for sensitive information which it quietly sends to a home server or uses your CPU cycles for outside work or uses your Internet connection to help with DOS attacks. At this point your Hardware Firewall (Router) is useless since as far as it’s concerned all the requests are coming from a valid source…your machine.

This is how many DOS attacks occur. Well meaning people not running AV scanners believing that their system is clean simply because it does not crash or show symptoms of infection.

Bottom line is that the vast majority of people need to keep at minimum an AV scanner active and as pathetic as it is, keep their windows firewall active.

DMWiz
11-30-2008, 16:06
Going back to my earlier post thanks to Gilligan I want to add a do it yourself option number three:

3. Free antivirus - Avira AntiVir (http://www.free-av.com/) and then run the Spybot S&D I already linked to earlier.

Now, to be sure, this combination I have not tested, the others I have actually used bot it LOOKS GOOD, lol!

A word concerning Norton, piad or otherwise, it just does not play nice in the sandbox with Zone Alarm and Spybot S&D and a bunch of other programs. Spybot S&D has a "teatimer" they call it that if I fully undersand is part of it's scanning engine, Norton does not like it and can freeze the computer. Likewise, Zone Alarm Free or paid has a "truevector" service that is also part of it's function. Norton hates it and will again lock and freeze. My solution, ditch Norton AV. If you run Norton then run Norton Internet Security as a stand alone paid subscription.


Given what Gilligan has stated and what I know some savvy computer people do you could do without anything--maybe. How?

1. Avoid neferious websites (ok, guys, you know the ones).
2. Avoid foreign web pages
3. Never open an email or attachment unless a personal message--that makes sense---is included from a person you know well.
4. Avoid downloading anything from the net aside from MS updates and browser updates etc.
5. Use Firefox as a browser, do not use IE
6. Never--ever---send personal data, credit card, do no shopping or online banking.
7. Use PayPal with a seperate account that is limited in funds to limit your losses.
8. Back up important files, pics, documents on a mini drive like the Maxtor One Touch Mini 4. Why back up, so, lol, you can relaod/reformat Windows when you inevitably get infected, and then reinstall your files from the mini drive.

If you are going to buy things on line, pay bills, online banking, etc, then I still think you better load up your machine with security software, right now, right or wrong, I like the Kaspersky and I pay for it.

I know you younger people out there could do well with the suggested "free" suites because you are more savvy that us 50 somethings. Since as I said earlier, for some reason I have come to have a fleet of computers under my care (poor things) and some I have installed paid subscriptions and some I am using the do it yourself free solutions, both, so far, with good success. Antedotal only, I know, but so far, knock on wood, no real virus/malware problem for over five years. Now, I have had burned out cooling fans, crashed drives, all mechanical issues and nothing to do with malware.

Well, that is about all I know, good luck to you all.

N

You could do all of these things or use a Mac! :D

All the AV I have ever had to use are for my Win machines, I also run Linux and Mac OX and have no need for all this stuff.

The only machines I have to worry about are my WinXP machines.

Wiz

Gilligan
11-30-2008, 16:22
Whew, lots of stuff... I still really disagree with a need for anything... I think you are a little off Airborne... no one has ever written a virus THAT effecient and complex... they are usually rather simple and are found by just about every scanner out there once they become in the wild. The worst is just the ones that keep inviting more trash in and it gets to the point of being pointless to repair the damage.

Shields up is kind of lame actually... a hardware firewall out of the box will pass that test with flying colors... you don't need another software to help pass that.

NEVER run "repair" utils... I watch more pc's get f'd up offshore by well intentioned guys trying to "clean up" things with those utils.... I CAN'T STAND to find those utils on a machine when I log in remotely... it usually means that I'll be sending another machine out shortly as they have ruined this one.

Buying online is perfectly safe... you are more in danger when you throw out your mail or if you have a regular mail box... hell you are in more danger when you give the local pimple face kid your card at the local resturaunt... THAT is where identity theft happens... they just go crazy on the web as that's the most faceless way to use the info.

Most of my beef with all this software (AV and firewall) is that it's just very resource intensive... you might as well slap another stick of ram and upgrade your CPU by like 25% if you are going to run these... and your I/O will still go down hill like crazy with all that stuff being monitored.

Gilligan
11-30-2008, 16:26
As far as google is concerned? Well they didn't pay $1.6 Billion for Youtube because they just want to "better the internet"... they DEFINITELY have $ ambitions!

Sorry but I don't care what a corporation "says" they are trying to do... when money is involved I am leary first... I bet you aren't as eager to jump on board with the informercials that come on late at night... same thing except they don't have several billion invested in their product they are pushing... think about it!

Brandon Belew
11-30-2008, 16:54
How can a company survive without money? I have no issues with them making money, thats the name of the game. But you also don't see them charging for everything either. They charge for very little, search appliances, commercial email and advertisements is about it.

ReefHound
11-30-2008, 17:49
Airborne, I don't think anyone recommended anyone else to not use an AV. That's a straw man.

And you missed the part where I said I don't use an email program like Outlook that has scripting capabilities so your entire example is out the window with respect to me. I don't even have my email reader set to read HTML, just plain text.

It's not like running an AV program offers any guarantee. Most people I know who've had problems with a virus were running AV programs. You certainly can't beat my track record running without. I think the biggest problem is complacency and users who install an AV then think they are invulnerable are at risk. The best firewall is the one between your ears.

On a related note, I detest the whole practice of "automatic updates" used by AV programs and Windows. It breeds complacency when the user just lets the machine download and install whatever it thinks it needs. One of these days a virus writer will disguise his virus as an automatic Windows Update and infect the world. lol

Brandon Belew
11-30-2008, 18:30
I scanned a work machine once that came back with a virus named 'NotAVirus'. Was comical.

Nemrod
11-30-2008, 20:16
Going back to my earlier post thanks to Gilligan I want to add a do it yourself option number three:

3. Free antivirus - Avira AntiVir (http://www.free-av.com/) and then run the Spybot S&D I already linked to earlier.

Now, to be sure, this combination I have not tested, the others I have actually used bot it LOOKS GOOD, lol!

A word concerning Norton, piad or otherwise, it just does not play nice in the sandbox with Zone Alarm and Spybot S&D and a bunch of other programs. Spybot S&D has a "teatimer" they call it that if I fully undersand is part of it's scanning engine, Norton does not like it and can freeze the computer. Likewise, Zone Alarm Free or paid has a "truevector" service that is also part of it's function. Norton hates it and will again lock and freeze. My solution, ditch Norton AV. If you run Norton then run Norton Internet Security as a stand alone paid subscription.


Given what Gilligan has stated and what I know some savvy computer people do you could do without anything--maybe. How?

1. Avoid neferious websites (ok, guys, you know the ones).
2. Avoid foreign web pages
3. Never open an email or attachment unless a personal message--that makes sense---is included from a person you know well.
4. Avoid downloading anything from the net aside from MS updates and browser updates etc.
5. Use Firefox as a browser, do not use IE
6. Never--ever---send personal data, credit card, do no shopping or online banking.
7. Use PayPal with a seperate account that is limited in funds to limit your losses.
8. Back up important files, pics, documents on a mini drive like the Maxtor One Touch Mini 4. Why back up, so, lol, you can relaod/reformat Windows when you inevitably get infected, and then reinstall your files from the mini drive.

If you are going to buy things on line, pay bills, online banking, etc, then I still think you better load up your machine with security software, right now, right or wrong, I like the Kaspersky and I pay for it.

I know you younger people out there could do well with the suggested "free" suites because you are more savvy that us 50 somethings. Since as I said earlier, for some reason I have come to have a fleet of computers under my care (poor things) and some I have installed paid subscriptions and some I am using the do it yourself free solutions, both, so far, with good success. Antedotal only, I know, but so far, knock on wood, no real virus/malware problem for over five years. Now, I have had burned out cooling fans, crashed drives, all mechanical issues and nothing to do with malware.

Well, that is about all I know, good luck to you all.

N

You could do all of these things or use a Mac! :D

All the AV I have ever had to use are for my Win machines, I also run Linux and Mac OX and have no need for all this stuff.

The only machines I have to worry about are my WinXP machines.

Wiz


LOL, sure, like my boss did not get a virus or some sort of malware on his new Mac, lol.

I am running Parallels on one of my PCs with Windows Vista as the prime and Linux Ubuntu for parallel. It is just as good as Mac OSX with the exception of there being more software available for Unbuntu than for Mac OSX. Mac, that is dandy, as long as you don't need to actually do work with your computer. One solution for people who need to run professional Windows software (Geosoft, Autodesk, Turbocad Inventor Mechanical, Delorme, Fugawa mapping and a bunch more, most dive computers, V Planer I think etc) that is simply not available for a Mac or anything else and that is a FACT then you can run Ubuntu Linux in Paralles for surfing and internet which would then no more need an AV than would a Mac, assuming you really feel lucky. Apple recommends an AV for internet use on Mac computers.

Parallels for a PC is 50 bucks, Ubuntu Linux is free and is a great OS with tons of freeware and applications evolving everyday. BTW, some PCs ship with Ubuntu as the OS, not Windows. I just bought a little Dell EEPC for a young friend for Christmas and it does not have Windows, it has Ubuntu for example.

If they made real software for a Mac I would get one, but they don't, sorry, just the facts and running heavy duty applications that cost more than the computer in Parallels on Mac with reduced functiuonality, h=---just get a PC and use the Mac for playtime then, they are a great toy machine. ;) wink, wink.

N

Brandon Belew
11-30-2008, 21:01
You do realize that most *nix apps can be compiled on mac right? Maybe not graphical apps built for ghome, kde or whatever graphical environment you are using. But the core of osx is unix.

Gilligan
11-30-2008, 21:41
How can a company survive without money? I have no issues with them making money, thats the name of the game. But you also don't see them charging for everything either. They charge for very little, search appliances, commercial email and advertisements is about it.

I'm not saying the shouldn't make money... I'm just saying I don't trust them not to be evil in the end.

DMWiz
11-30-2008, 22:18
LOL, sure, like my boss did not get a virus or some sort of malware on his new Mac, lol.

Okay I admit I took a cheap shot, but you will agree that your list was excessive to say it kindly!

I have been working on Macs since 1987 and never have I had a virus on my Macs (Sure you could attribute it to the smaller number of Macs etc.) But you'd think common sense would tell you that if you have problems with viruses etc., one could do your list or just simply jump ship to something else!



I am running Parallels on one of my PCs with Windows Vista as the prime and Linux Ubuntu for parallel. It is just as good as Mac OSX with the exception of there being more software available for Unbuntu than for Mac OSX.

While I took a cheap shot earlier, at least mine was true!
The average person would not find using Linux with a GUI the same as Mac OS. I dual boot Ubuntu and XP and I really like Ubuntu, but you can't possibly be serious about that come on! More on the software later.



Mac, that is dandy, as long as you don't need to actually do work with your computer.

I guess they just pay me to sit here and read ST boards! Oops did I say that out loud?:smilie39:



One solution for people who need to run professional Windows software (Geosoft, Autodesk, Turbocad Inventor Mechanical, Delorme, Fugawa mapping and a bunch more, most dive computers, V Planer I think etc) that is simply not available for a Mac or anything else and that is a FACT!

You know I really liked watching the presidential debates on NBC because after the debates they would have what they called, "The Fact Checkers" who would tell you if and outlandish claim by a candidate was true or false.
Well, here's my version of it:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/3072489873_8424cc767f.jpg
Yup that's V-Planner on my MacBook not emulated!
You can download it here (http://www.hhssoftware.com/v-planner/download.html)



If they made real software for a Mac I would get one, but they don't, sorry, just the facts and running heavy duty applications that cost more than the computer in Parallels on Mac with reduced functiuonality, h=---just get a PC and use the Mac for playtime then, they are a great toy machine. ;) wink, wink.
N

Look at this toy (http://www.apple.com/science/profiles/mit/) or this other toy (http://www.apple.com/science/profiles/coretech/)

I particularly like this quote from this article (http://www.apple.com/science/profiles/sabeti/)

Yamins chose Mac Pro computers for the lab’s workstations, which let researchers maximize the work they can do from the desktop, while easily share information with the multi-thousand-core UNIX cluster at the nearby Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard. “For high-performance scientific work, our eight-core Mac Pros are very powerful,” he explains. “They run UNIX natively, which means we can pull in the entire open-source world of free software.

This Business & Vertical Markets list (http://guide.apple.com/action.lasso?-database=MacOSGuide&-layout=cgi_search&-response=/uscategories/business/business_results.lasso&-op=bw&st_Cat_IDs_result=B044&-maxRecords=10&-search) only has 1500 titles
This Development Tools list (http://guide.apple.com/action.lasso?-database=MacOSGuide&-layout=cgi_search&-response=/uscategories/development/development_results.lasso&-op=bw&st_Cat_IDs_result=B077&-maxRecords=10&-search) only has 1026 titles
Science and Technology (http://guide.apple.com/action.lasso?-database=MacOSGuide&-layout=cgi_search&-response=/uscategories/science/science_results.lasso&-op=bw&st_Cat_IDs_result=B053&-maxRecords=10&-search) only has 1000 entries.
And I'm not even going to include Design & Print, Education, Graphics & Animation, Music & Audio, Video & Multimedia or Web Publishing which are the Mac bread and butter.
You can do that on your own here (http://guide.apple.com/) if you want, but I'm guessing not!:smiley2:

Wiz

Nemrod
11-30-2008, 22:58
DMWiz, I was mostly pulling your chain but on that extensive list if you can direct me to Fugawa, AutoCad, GeoSoft, Delorme and several other programs I use it would be helpful, seriously because it would help me justify jumping ship. Of course having to repurchase thousands in software might be a killer. I just don't find the kinds of software for a Mac that I use on my PCs which is why I got the PCs, that is what the software required, lol. Kinda like a chicken and an egg conundrum.

The open source Unbuntu does have a growing list of open software and if wishes are worth anything there will be more than Mac given the high costs of a Mac and it's specialty, closed software. The Ubuntu seems fine to me, works well, is unix like, what exactly makes Mac better that the 2,500 dollar price tag again now? My point is that since a Mac is a PC now under the hood, why run Mac OSX with Windows in Parallels if you could run Windows with Ubuntu in Parallels? Yeah, I know, none of it is completely there yet on either party but maybe soon?

As to V planner, I said I think, things change, glad to hear I was wrong there because that was a worry should I ever get a Mac. As to the examples, thanks, those were intertesting reads, nothing there a PC could not do and consiuder of course they were writing to some degree their own software---quote:

"For data analysis, the Sabeti lab scientists typically write their own programs in Perl, Java, or C++, and they adapt existing open-source tools created by others. "

The above could certainly be done in Linux Ubuntu or Windows or DOS for that matter.

I took Fortran in school (what a PITA and a mostly total waste), I don't want to write any programs, lol, nope. When I say work, I don't mean word processing or flipping pics around, I mean serious mapping, subsurface geology, design engineering stuff BTW. Thanks for the links above, I book marked them. I also did a search in the Science and Technolgy catagory and did not find my applications or equivilents there or anything close. BUT, that said, I book marked it because someday I am hopeful there will be Mac software and then I might just jump ship, thanks again. I have been taking a course in CAD drawing and design, you know, the industry standard is AutoDesk and Catia and some of the students are running those in Parallels on a Mac in Windows with some success. The Autodesk AutoCad programs can run 3,500 to 5,000 dollars but we are using a student version for 150 dollars. I think I want TurboCad Inventor Mechanical Edition which is about 1,400 dollars. The TurboCad Pro I have now is 150 dollars and is fun but not full featured.

Seriously, thanks, I appreciate learning about Mac, good info, always nice to have options and a Mac is certainly a solid option for some people, but not all. The only thing that prevents a PC from running Mac OSX is that Apple will not rlease it for PC because Mac makes their money on hardware thus the high prices for their computers. If they released Unix OSX for Mr. PC then the game would change.

One issue with that is that unlike the closed world of Mac, only one brand of computer, Mac with company specified hardware it is easier to develop a solid OS. Within the PC world there is not one but instead dozens, maybe hundreds of PC makers from Dell all the way down to the corner geek store that builds 6,000 dollars custom PC laptops with dual processers etc. All of the drivers and huge universe of hardware would have to suddenly be accomadated for. If Leopord had to run in that universe, how would it compare to Windows? Because, we are really just talking operating systems here ever since Mac became Mr. PC's twin and the same Intel chips are under the hood. If a Mac can run Windows, the only thing stopping PC from running Leoprd is getting a copy (then there are the drivers and all of that---what a PITA).


Well, I am done with the subject, I know nothing more, thanks all for the great info, I have learned some new things. Hope some of my suggestions were helpful as well, if not, sorry, I tried. Adios.
N

Gilligan
11-30-2008, 23:02
I have been working on Macs since 1987 and never have I had a virus on my Macs (Sure you could attribute it to the smaller number of Macs etc.) But you'd think common sense would tell you that if you have problems with viruses etc., one could do your list or just simply jump ship to something else!


One could also you are more likely to become a child molester if you use a PC.. statistically speaking more child molesters use PC vs Mac... granted that's because just plain and simple, less people use Macs than PC's. That's why there are less viruses, not because of the platform itself.

Fact, Mac's comercials are riddled with exagerations and flat out lies.
Fact, Mac's don't have the gaming base that PC's do.
Fact, I have a Mac, several linux boxes and a few pc's.
Fact, Mac is over priced.

One of the most rediculous comercials is the one where Mac talks about how much PC is spending on marketing... where am I watching this again? That's right, a Mac COMERCIAL!

DMWiz
12-01-2008, 06:43
I want to apologize to the op for hijacking this thread -- I just can't stand when people make claims that just aren't true. Back to your regularly schedule programming.

Wiz

thagar
12-03-2008, 20:59
I just had a virus on 2 of my 3 computers, of course they are the 2 that my wife uses the most. I wonder what she is looking at. Anyway the virus pretends to be an anti-virus and run a check, but when it started my AVG pops up and says virus found.

Nemrod
12-03-2008, 22:19
Suggest you downlaod Spybot S&D and run a scan. N

rxatrix
12-04-2008, 02:52
Good suggestion from Nemrod! Prior to running Spybot, go to Windows Live OneCare (http://www.onecare.live.com) and run the free security scanner. Then follow up with the Spybot scan. If the 2 infected machines wont let you on the internet, download Spybot to your uninfected machine and move the program over with a flash drive and install it. But do run the onecare security scanner. It will do wonders for the registry. It's from Microsoft (go figure). BTW: while running the onecare security scanner, you may want to plan a nice evening out with the wife, because it can take up to 3-4 hours depending on the speed of your processor.