PDA

View Full Version : Stop Canada's Seal Hunt!!



DevilDiver
01-16-2009, 07:53
http://www.hsus.org/web-files/protect_seals/spacer.gifhttp://www.hsus.org/web-files/protect_seals/seals07_masthead.jpg

Seal hunting is an off-season activity conducted by fishers from Canada's East Coast. They earn a small fraction of their incomes from sealing—primarily from the sale of seal pelts to European fashion markets. But the vast majority of the sealers' incomes are from commercial fisheries. Canadian seafood exports to the United States contribute $2.5 billion annually to the Canadian economy—dwarfing the few million dollars provided by the seal hunt.

The connection between the commercial fishing industry and the seal hunt in Canada gives consumers all over the world the power to end this cruel and brutal slaughter.

Humane Society of the United States

Protect Seals 2008 | Save Baby Seals | Stop the Canadian Seal Hunt (http://www.hsus.org/protect_seals.html)



More Information:
Want to Help End the Seal Hunt? Boycott Canadian Seafood. | The Humane Society of the United States (http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/why_a_boycott_of_canadian_seafood/)

Fast Facts about Canada's Seal Hunt

It's a cruel slaughter.

Fully 95% of the harp seals killed over the past five years have been under three months of age. At the time of slaughter, many of these defenseless pups had not yet eaten their first solid food or taken their first swim—they literally had no escape from the "hunters."
Video evidence clearly shows sealers routinely dragging conscious pups across the ice with boathooks, shooting seals and leaving them to suffer in agony, and even skinning seals alive.
In 2001, an independent team of veterinary experts studied Canada's commercial seal hunt. Their report (http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/dfiles/file_95.pdf) concluded that in 42% of the cases they examined, the seal did not show enough evidence of cranial injury to even guarantee unconsciousness at the time of skinning.It's a reckless cull.

Over the past three years, nearly a million seal pups have been slaughtered for their fur
The last time sealers killed this many seals—in the 1950s and '60s—the harp seal population was quickly reduced by as much as two thirds.
Global warming is compounding the situation. In 2007, the Government of Canada continued with the seal hunt despite estimates by Canadian government scientists that as many as 90 percent of the seal pups in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence died because of poor ice conditions.
Scientists around the world have condemned the Canadian government's management plan for harp seals as reckless, unsustainable, and irresponsible.The seal hunt brings in very little money.

Even in Newfoundland, where 90% of sealers live, income from sealing accounts for less than one-tenth of 1% of the province's economy.
Sealers are fishermen who engage in several fisheries throughout the year, and sealing revenues account for only about one twentieth of their total incomes.Killing seals may harm fish stocks.

About 3% of a harp seal's diet consists of commercially fished cod. However, harp seals also consume many significant predators of cod, including squid. Removing harp seals may mean an increase in cod predators.
The Canadian government clearly states there is no evidence that killing harp seals will help fish stocks recover, and scientists have expressed concerns that culling seals may in fact impede the recovery of ground fish stocks.If you oppose the seal hunt, you're in good company.

Polling shows 79% of American voters oppose the Canadian seal hunt. This opposition cuts across all regions of the county and all political parties. (Penn, Schoen & Berland, 2002).
In 2007, the U.S. House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution calling on Canada to bring its commercial seal hunt to an end.
Nearly 70 percent of Canadians holding an opinion are opposed to the commercial seal hunt outright, and even higher numbers oppose specific aspects of the hunt such as the killing of seal pups. Only 4% said that they would be very upset if the hunt ended. (Environics Research, 2005)
Close to 80 percent of the people who are aware of the Canadian seal hunt in the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Germany and France oppose it as well. (Penn, Schoen & Berland, 2002 and MORI, 2002.)
Thank you for reading this post!!

DevilDiver
01-16-2009, 08:17
More links to information:

Harpseals.org - A Non-Profit Charity Working to End the Canadian Seal Hunt (http://www.harpseals.org/)

Canadian Seal Hunt (http://www.canadiansealhunt.com/)

Stop the Seal Hunt (http://blog.stopthesealhunt.com/)

Canada resumes seal hunt - Environment- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4738584/)

imasinker
01-16-2009, 10:21
More links to information:

Harpseals.org - A Non-Profit Charity Working to End the Canadian Seal Hunt (http://www.harpseals.org/)

Canadian Seal Hunt (http://www.canadiansealhunt.com/)

Stop the Seal Hunt (http://blog.stopthesealhunt.com/)

Canada resumes seal hunt - Environment- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4738584/)


Firstly I'd like to say thanks for being someone outside of Canada who cares in this cause and is taking part in helping and educating people on this unjustified slaughter. As a Canadian citizen I am ashamed at the horrific means by which these hunters partake in seal hunting. It’s unnecessary. Before anyone says anything, I am no tree hugger, I eat meat and drive a car, but killing a baby seal for nothing other than its fur is outrageous and uncalled for, just like shark fining.

Thanks for posting this!

CODMAN
01-26-2009, 06:50
Sorry to say this, but the info given above is highly partisan! Painting a very specific, and not necessarily realistic, image about the situation and which is promoted by the organisations whose interest it is to stop the seal hunt. Sorry, but it's highly biased propaganda!

The real situation, considering the economic, ecological and Humane considerations, is very complex. There are very real positives in favor of the seal hunt. And yes, there are several real arguments against it! And yes, there are still some (unfortunately) inhumane practices in regards to the killing going on. But it's not as black and white as presented above...

I'm not Pro-sealhunt... and I'm not against it either! What I am against though is inhumane practices when taking these creatures lives. There has been much improvement over the past in the way it's done, and there is still lots of room for improvement. If we are going to harvest this natural resource (which by the way is very abundant and in no danger of overexploitation for the moment), lets make sure it's done properly in a fashion that will avoid unecessary suffering of the animals.

Unfortunately, this is a very emotional subject due to the cute fury nature of the baby seals in question. And as a consequence of this, discussions on this subject rarely remain "calm headed":smiley21: (meaning I'm probably going to get flammed for not supporting what was originally presented:smilie39:). It's too bad because I honnestly believe the public would benefit greatly from discussing this calmly and getting honnest non-biased information about this practice. But I've yet to read a post on a forum about this that was able to remain "calm".

OK, flame away if you must!:smiley32:

Just my 0.02$ on the subject...

CODMAN

DevilDiver
01-26-2009, 07:10
Sorry to say this, but the info given above is highly partisan! Painting a very specific, and not necessarily realistic, image about the situation and which is promoted by the organisations whose interest it is to stop the seal hunt. Sorry, but it's highly biased propaganda!

The real situation, considering the economic, ecological and Humane considerations, is very complex. There are very real positives in favor of the seal hunt. And yes, there are several real arguments against it! And yes, there are still some (unfortunately) inhumane practices in regards to the killing going on. But it's not as black and white as presented above...

CODMAN


Would you care to give an example of a "real positive" in favor of the seal hunt? I believe that if there is "pro" seal hunt propaganda out there that it should be permitted as well.

The main links above are for the Humane Society. I do not believe I have ever heard of them being refereed to as "partisan" all though I do believe you can say it would being their interest to stop the seal hunt........

Either way I would be interested in any information you have......

Thnx....

Seniordiver
01-26-2009, 08:19
Sorry to say this, but the info given above is highly partisan! Painting a very specific, and not necessarily realistic, image about the situation and which is promoted by the organisations whose interest it is to stop the seal hunt. Sorry, but it's highly biased propaganda!

The real situation, considering the economic, ecological and Humane considerations, is very complex. There are very real positives in favor of the seal hunt. And yes, there are several real arguments against it! And yes, there are still some (unfortunately) inhumane practices in regards to the killing going on. But it's not as black and white as presented above...

CODMAN


Would you care to give an example of a "real positive" in favor of the seal hunt? I believe that if there is "pro" seal hunt propaganda out there that it should be permitted as well.

The main links above are for the Humane Society. I do not believe I have ever heard of them being refereed to as "partisan" all though I do believe you can say it would being their interest to stop the seal hunt........

Either way I would be interested in any information you have......

Thnx....
Well, I would say two things. This is an outstanding dive discussion site, not a partisan political one. I would therefore strongly recommend that it be deleated.
On substance, however: the seals in their very large number kill a huge number of an unfortunately shrinking fish stock-thus the cull aspect of the hunt. In addition, the fishermen (not fishers) depend to a considerable extent on the income from the hunt, as the cod fishery has collapsed due in large part to foreign overfishing, and is unliokely to recover, especially if the seals continue in their present numbers.
These are two aspects of your political PETA rant. I could go on, but I doubt that I would convince you.
Lets get back to diving!!

DevilDiver
01-26-2009, 09:25
This (and myself) are not from PETA or suporting that orginization in any way.

The primary webpage is from The Humane Society (The people you adopt Puppies and Kittens from).

The origional post was in no way meant to accuse anyone of any illeagal activity but to inform of a current news issue (Canada resumes seal hunt - Environment- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4738584/)) regaurding ongoing practice of hunting seals. (That is why it was posted in the Marine Life catagory)

I really would not see this as a political discussion or propaganda and it would be ashame to have it be framed like such but if this is how we deal with information that we do not agree with then it would be best to delete this and pretend like it does not exsit.

CODMAN
01-26-2009, 10:14
I don,t know if it should be deleted... I'll let the moderator decide on that...:smilie40:

I actually wish there was NO propaganda out there... Just more factual information. The seal hunt has several benefits. It does control the population, which hasn't been this high in over 100 years. Which in return does reduce the predation on many fish species (amongst which COD:smiley36:) which either directly or indirectly do affect the fisheries (and please, do not mistake me; I don't think the seals are responsible for fish stock crashes). It is an important source of income for many smaller fishermen taht are fighting to make a living (as well as their communities based on fishing). It's a traditional hunt that's been going on for a long time, so culturally it has it's importance. The products from the hunt (fur, oil, meat; yes, it's yummy!) are usefull for human consumption.

Killing a seal is no different than killing any other living creature for our needs (including plants in my oppinion). As long as we don't waste, do it humanely, protect the resource (don't overdue it). It's not a problem. People took issue with it because: 1- Their cute, 2- for a long time it was done inhumanely, 3- some movie stars stepped in..:smiley21:

And unfortunately, some organisations will go to any means to attain their objectives. Twist truths, invent lies, doctor pictures (like the one you posted; no-one uses clubs with nails anymore) and pretty much any means to advance their cause, without consideration for the consequences (on the ecosystem as well as people). And honnestly, this disinformation really gets to me...:smiley21:... I don't have a problem with people being against this hunt. Just as long as they use real facts and arguments to get their point accross...

As far as I'm concerned, the seals deserve to exist at their leisure and eat as much fish as they want (thei're part of the ecosystem). But they are a food resource too and I have no problem with harvesting them as long as we respect these magnificent beasts (they are really cool to dive with). Don't overkill, don,t kill just because you want to reduce the population (really use the meat, fur and fat) and kill humanely. That's all I ask for....

Cheers!:smiley20:

CODMAN

Seniordiver
01-26-2009, 10:16
This (and myself) are not from PETA or suporting that orginization in any way.

The primary webpage is from The Humane Society (The people you adopt Puppies and Kittens from).

The origional post was in no way meant to accuse anyone of any illeagal activity but to inform of a current news issue (Canada resumes seal hunt - Environment- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4738584/)) regaurding ongoing practice of hunting seals. (That is why it was posted in the Marine Life catagory)

I really would not see this as a political discussion or propaganda and it would be ashame to have it be framed like such but if this is how we deal with information that we do not agree with then it would be best to delete this and pretend like it does not exsit.

Terribly sorry, it looked and sounded like PETA-perhaps some spillover, unknown to you or me.

On the substance, this is a cull or hunt that has economic impact in a region hard hit by a collapse of the fishery. I am not sure that any large scale animal kill, or small scale at that, is ever attractive. Abbatoirs are never pleasant, either in an enclosed building, or on the ice. I no longer hunt, either in the water, or in the bush because I do not have to, and I take no personal pleasure in the hunt. Others have to in order to feed their families with the money they earn. In this case, this is a very difficult and dangerous way to make a living, but the options are limited.

DevilDiver
01-26-2009, 11:25
CODMAN,

I totally agree, the reason for the OP was to inform. I know there are multiple sides to every issue and there are economic, social and environmental aspects as well.

I am not usually one to take an extreme side either direction on issues. It is evident that there are practices and regulations that should reviewed concerning this though.
(As for the clubbing there are 2008 photos and video depicting this practice)

SENIORDIVER,

No problems, I understand. I have to say that I really would not consider myself the "tree hugger" type but I do feel there are issues that while practiced in the past that have shown not to be in the best interest of the public or the industries that participate. (Cod is an excellent example)

Unfortunately the public and the workers usually end up paying the price in the long run (Look at what happened the the economy of Iceland) while the corporations take the profit and move on. (To China, Thailand and the Pacific until their resources are depleted) Truthfully there are almost no independent local fishing families any more, most are contracted to multinational companies because they own the quota's and are more than happy to purchase quota's when they put independents out of business.

As far as propaganda their is plenty to go around on every side. When there is money involved politics is never far behind and when one side actually is making a profit they tend to be able to pay to get their side of it out especially to the politicians.

imasinker
01-26-2009, 11:32
This (and myself) are not from PETA or suporting that orginization in any way.

The primary webpage is from The Humane Society (The people you adopt Puppies and Kittens from).

The origional post was in no way meant to accuse anyone of any illeagal activity but to inform of a current news issue (Canada resumes seal hunt - Environment- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4738584/)) regaurding ongoing practice of hunting seals. (That is why it was posted in the Marine Life catagory)

I really would not see this as a political discussion or propaganda and it would be ashame to have it be framed like such but if this is how we deal with information that we do not agree with then it would be best to delete this and pretend like it does not exsit.

Well said!!!

CODMAN
01-26-2009, 12:08
CODMAN,
As far as propaganda their is plenty to go around on every side.

This is very true!:smiley20:

Yes the clubbing still goes on... But the club is now a very well designed killing device that does the job quickly and efficiently with one blow. The days of 2x4s with nails protruding are long gone. Any organisation still showing old (or fake) pictures like that are using it to stimulate an emotional response...:smiley29:

Cheers!

CODMAN

Crimediver
01-27-2009, 09:47
A seal walks into a bar and the bartender says "What are you having?"
The seal replied, "Anything except the Canadian Club."

imasinker
01-27-2009, 15:44
CODMAN,
As far as propaganda their is plenty to go around on every side.

This is very true!:smiley20:

Yes the clubbing still goes on... But the club is now a very well designed killing device that does the job quickly and efficiently with one blow. The days of 2x4s with nails protruding are long gone. Any organisation still showing old (or fake) pictures like that are using it to stimulate an emotional response...:smiley29:

Cheers!

CODMAN
WOW and you think that makes it all better? A club to the head is still a club to the head regardless what it is made from. Sad to see people think this is a good means to hunt. The means to which these animals come to there deaths is not always on the first blow. Unreal how people think....

CODMAN
01-27-2009, 19:13
[/quote]
WOW and you think that makes it all better? A club to the head is still a club to the head regardless what it is made from. Sad to see people think this is a good means to hunt. The means to which these animals come to there deaths is not always on the first blow. Unreal how people think....[/quote]

As far as I'm concerned, taking a life is taking a life! Wether it's a blow to the head on a seal that kills him instantly or a pneumatic piston that gives a blow to the head of a cow and kills it instantly, I don't care. We are taking life; that's what humans do since we don't have chlorophyll to use sunlight to produce food! I'm sorry, but that's life!

Now improving the tool used to hunt the seals was a step in the right direction if it reduces suffering! Yes, I'm sure sometimes it happens that the first blow doesn't kill! Just like in abatoirs, sometimes the cow or pig doesn't dies on the first shot.... It's unfortunate... It happens... Lets take the measures to minimise this... The club, when well used, it probably one of the quicker ways of killing them...

There are many other kills done by humans that are less humane. Trawlers litterally let the fish suffocate on the deck which must be a terrible stress on the animal. But fish aren't considered cute, so no big deal right...:smiley32:

The use of a new club does not make this hunt OK. It does make it a bit more humane though! I personally have no problem with it... Others do... There are arguments for both sides as was said above and there is no absolute truth to this! Just each persons individual oppinion!

CODMAN

ektess1
01-27-2009, 19:26
It is more humane than some hunters. I am talking about the ones who can not hit the side of the barn if they were in it. They go out blasting away at anything that moves. Leaving animals to die slowly lost in the field.
Don't get me wrong. I have hunted and fished. I have killed many animals. But always humanely. One shoot, one quick kill. If not 100%, don't take the shot.
For you who think this is any different then clubing seals, you are deluding yourself. Killing is killing. Just do it cleanly and quickly.
Them seals sure are cute though.

Kennedydive
02-18-2009, 13:56
I had to join this forum because I came across this post and I could not let it go by without saying my 2 cents.

I find it amazing how easily people get upset over the images they are being fed. I just hope some people see how the media and activist groups are manipulating people to believe in what sells.

DevilDiver was the starter of this post. A guy from Texas. Does anyone know how cattle are killed?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_gun)

Isn't it funny that they are killed by blunt force trauma to the head. The same as the Cruel way of killing seals (although most are shot now). Wait a minute. Cattle are just unconscious while they are bled to death. Much nicer than to kill them on the spot.

USA slaughter around 35 million cattle every year. 300,000 seals vs. 35,000,000 head of cattle. If we were to stop harvesting animals do you know how many jobs would be lost in the Beef market alone (considering it is the largest agricultural business in the USA).

I guess cattle aren't as cute and the ground where they are killed isn't white in the glass houses where you live.
Jason

Queen
02-18-2009, 14:55
Are the seals eaten?

Monkeylemon
02-18-2009, 15:24
I had to join this forum because I came across this post and I could not let it go by without saying my 2 cents.

I find it amazing how easily people get upset over the images they are being fed. I just hope some people see how the media and activist groups are manipulating people to believe in what sells.

DevilDiver was the starter of this post. A guy from Texas. Does anyone know how cattle are killed?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_gun)

Isn't it funny that they are killed by blunt force trauma to the head. The same as the Cruel way of killing seals (although most are shot now). Wait a minute. Cattle are just unconscious while they are bled to death. Much nicer than to kill them on the spot.

USA slaughter around 35 million cattle every year. 300,000 seals vs. 35,000,000 head of cattle. If we were to stop harvesting animals do you know how many jobs would be lost in the Beef market alone (considering it is the largest agricultural business in the USA).

I guess cattle aren't as cute and the ground where they are killed isn't white in the glass houses where you live.
Jason All due respect, the Scubatoys forum is great because it's civil and people don't pop off at each other accusing them of "glass houses" and whatnot. There's no reason for you to go after the original poster with a tangential argument (he lives in Texas so the beef industry is his responsibility?).

DevilDiver
02-18-2009, 20:14
I had to join this forum because I came across this post and I could not let it go by without saying my 2 cents.

I find it amazing how easily people get upset over the images they are being fed. I just hope some people see how the media and activist groups are manipulating people to believe in what sells.

DevilDiver was the starter of this post. A guy from Texas. Does anyone know how cattle are killed?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_gun)

Isn't it funny that they are killed by blunt force trauma to the head. The same as the Cruel way of killing seals (although most are shot now). Wait a minute. Cattle are just unconscious while they are bled to death. Much nicer than to kill them on the spot.

USA slaughter around 35 million cattle every year. 300,000 seals vs. 35,000,000 head of cattle. If we were to stop harvesting animals do you know how many jobs would be lost in the Beef market alone (considering it is the largest agricultural business in the USA).

I guess cattle aren't as cute and the ground where they are killed isn't white in the glass houses where you live.
Jason


I have no problems with other points of view or people expressing them. The OP was really for information purposes, not saying you are required to read, believe or care about the issue.

In all truth I was under the belief that this practice had stopped in the 80's about the same time Olivia Newton John's "Do you want to get physical" thankfully died a well deserved and painful death.

From a person (my opinion) that does live in Texas the Canadian Seal Hunt seems out dated and irresponsible. I would be interested in what purpose it serves because the last time I checked I could not find any seal meat in the grocery store and have not came across anyone wearing seal fur clothing.

Serious question:
I know there is the argument that there are people that depend on the money from the seal hunt but my question to you is: What do you do with the seal after it is killed?

(IMO) This is not like hunting and killing a deer or raising a domesticated animal (Beef, chicken. pork, turkey) for food stock. If I am missing the point here by not seeing the huge financial benefit to the country of Canada partaking in the global seal market please help me out.....

Just a thought:
Could it be that possibly the Canadian government subsidizes the hunt because of the gross mismanagement of the fishing stock witch caused a collapse of the entire fishery and now they have to have quota's to protect what ever is left and the people who depended on it to make a living now have to partake in the seal hunt after the fishing season is over?

I have to go check the cow carcass I have bleeding out in the barn next to the whiskey still.... I will check back after I help Ma wash up.

Sorry, I almost forgot..... Welcome to the forum!!!

divingbuddy
02-18-2009, 20:26
Are the seals eaten?

Yes, they can be eaten. My mom used to make a wicked 'seal flipper pie'.

Whenever I have it (I still get it pre-made from a specialty store nearby) I am reminded of her (she passed away a few years ago).

I too despite the waste of animals, and those who die cruelly. If we're going to kill animals for food, then we owe it to all humankind to do so in the most humane way.

Just my two cents...Cheers!

Kennedydive
02-19-2009, 06:23
My apologies. I did not want to come on here ranting and raving and sounding like a lunatic. I just get so annoyed at the fact that people think that we are barbaric Canadians doing this for fun.
I have eaten seal meat but much prefer beef. To answer your question some of the meat is given to Inuit communities, some sold and allot is left on the ice where scavengers feed on it.
I wasn't calling DevilDiver a stupid redneck or anything like that I was just pointing out the fact that he was from Texas which is just one State that relies heavily on Beef export which uses the same cruel method to kill cattle. Maybe he's opposed to that as well. If he is than I can respect his point of view. If he is not against one animal being killed by being bludgeoned to death but is OK with the another than that is where the Glass house comment came in. I guess I may have been a bit hasty before giving him a chance to respond.
And true that the seal population did not destroy the fish stocks. That was 100% done by humans. Many of them massive ships from the European Union who rake the oceans clean of everything that gets caught up in their trawls. The same group that wants to place a ban on Seal Pelts. Seal pelts are very popular in places where wearing fur is still acceptable. Also in items like Sporrans for example.
I come from a family of fishermen and from a fishing community. I have seen petitions and boycotts on Canadian seafood for example like the link DevilDiver posted http://www.canadiansealhunt.com/ (http://www.canadiansealhunt.com/) and by encouraging that, it is an indirect attack on the livelihoods of family members and friends. None of whom ever taken part of the legal seal cull.
There is no shortage of seals here. Lots of wrecks, lots of seals and little to no fish on the wrecks.
If the OP was for information purposes than it was definitely one sided. Believe it or not wikipedia has a very informative write up about the seal hunt and doesn't include pictures that would offend a large majority of people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_hunt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_hunt)
Again to go back to the Cattle Industry, if you were to post pictures of cattle being slaughtered than it would offend most people as well.
For years I have been listening to groups like the Sea Sheppard tell people how wrong this is, spending money to operate an outdated ship that is completely environmentally unfriendly causing the Coast Guard to patrol and prevent acts of violence in a dangerous environment when two groups clash, all to get more footage so they can sucker the bleeding hearts to donate millions to their cause. They don’t care about the animals, they care about getting more money. If they cared about animals than they would be donating their money to animal shelters and helping by spaying the millions of strays that roam city streets.
Again sorry for seeming like my only purpose was to cause sh#t. I know the seal hunt is not pretty, and I would not want to see any animals suffer. I just wanted to make the point that the same thing happens to all kinds of mammals (food) and the fact that you don't understand because it's not happening in your backyard doesn't mean that a cattle is any less or more important than a seal.
Jason

Queen
02-19-2009, 06:25
Are the seals eaten?

Yes, they can be eaten. My mom used to make a wicked 'seal flipper pie'.

Whenever I have it (I still get it pre-made from a specialty store nearby) I am reminded of her (she passed away a few years ago).

I too despite the waste of animals, and those who die cruelly. If we're going to kill animals for food, then we owe it to all humankind to do so in the most humane way.

Just my two cents...Cheers!
Thanks for the info. :smiley20: Not to be gross or make light of the OP's thoughts...but what does seal taste like? Is it fishy?

CODMAN
02-19-2009, 07:22
Jason[/quote] All due respect, the Scubatoys forum is great because it's civil and people don't pop off at each other accusing them of "glass houses" and whatnot. There's no reason for you to go after the original poster with a tangential argument (he lives in Texas so the beef industry is his responsibility?).[/quote]

I agree with this. It's all about respectfull discussion of oppinions... :smilie40:

For everybody's information, a small portion of the meat is sold and transformed for human consumption (yes, I've had it! And it's quite tasty! :smiley20:). The rest is mainly sold for animal feed (dog food). So the answer is no, this is not like shark finning where the carcasses are dumped into the ocean...:smiley19:). I'm sure the hunters would be very very happy if the portion for human consumption went up, because they would get much more for it. But it's a marketting issue and for now the demand for human consumption is small...

Cheers and peace out everyone!:smiley20:

CODMAN
02-19-2009, 07:30
When I've had it it was quite strong tasting. Very pungent. Kinda hard to describe actually!:smiley36: kinda like wild meats are very strong tasting; moose, bear, etc... But not fishy...

Maybe kennedy can give a more accurate description of the taste...




Are the seals eaten?

Yes, they can be eaten. My mom used to make a wicked 'seal flipper pie'.

Whenever I have it (I still get it pre-made from a specialty store nearby) I am reminded of her (she passed away a few years ago).

I too despite the waste of animals, and those who die cruelly. If we're going to kill animals for food, then we owe it to all humankind to do so in the most humane way.

Just my two cents...Cheers!
Thanks for the info. :smiley20: Not to be gross or make light of the OP's thoughts...but what does seal taste like? Is it fishy?

CODMAN
02-19-2009, 07:37
Hmmm... Hi J., having directly worked in the fisheries science department I can tell you for a fact that this isn't true. Seals did and still do play their part in causing the fish stocks to crash and remain low. However, human pressure is most probably the main cause. And as far as I'm concerned, the seals are in their natural habitat so I find it OK that they eat as much fish as they like!:smiley20: The fishing trawlers on the other hand...:smiley21::smiley21:

Humans have basically sold out most of their marine resources for profit and are bleeding it dry. And it's going to keep going that way because people are greedy and they care more about the cash in their pocket than the world we live in (and which they forget we are a part of!). Obviously, I'm generalising here, but it,s just to make a point...

Cheers!:smiley20:


And true that the seal population did not destroy the fish stocks. That was 100% done by humans.

DevilDiver
02-19-2009, 08:15
Jason All due respect, the Scubatoys forum is great because it's civil and people don't pop off at each other accusing them of "glass houses" and whatnot. There's no reason for you to go after the original poster with a tangential argument (he lives in Texas so the beef industry is his responsibility?).


I agree with this. It's all about respectfull discussion of oppinions... :smilie40:

For everybody's information, a small portion of the meat is sold and transformed for human consumption (yes, I've had it! And it's quite tasty! :smiley20:). The rest is mainly sold for animal feed (dog food). So the answer is no, this is not like shark finning where the carcasses are dumped into the ocean...:smiley19:). I'm sure the hunters would be very very happy if the portion for human consumption went up, because they would get much more for it. But it's a marketting issue and for now the demand for human consumption is small...

Cheers and peace out everyone!:smiley20:

First, I would like to thank the people who supported the purpose of the ST forum. This is a place for information, networking and fun in a friendly and respectful manner.

I understand that this type of post is not going to be received as appropriate or important by everyone but I do believe that there is a definite place for these issues in a diving forum as they are related to the diving environment and the future of how we interact with it.

This being said, I personally have found the opinions of others to be very interesting and have taken allot from this so far. We all have our glass house that we live in but as long as you are able to see into your neighbors glass house there is something to learn.

I totally understand the situation that the local people (fisherman, processors, etc.) find themselves in regarding the financial need of the hunt. I also believe that this would not be the first choice of most for a source of income. As for the need for seal meat for human consumption I can't see that there would be a large enough market to support the hunt. With the by-product being used for animal feed I am sure that there is multiple sources of protein that would be more cost effective and readily available to fit this purpose. With the issue of fur, the demand for fur has declined substantially over the past decades due to superior synthetic materials leaving it's only use a fashion statement.

Sooo... I believe what this comes down to is the fact that people need to hunt seal for the money witch they most likely see very little of, while the Canadian government taxes, regulates and uses this issue as a political issue to control the working people who need it. (I am guessing here that this is a political issue that has the Canadian people divided)

So the question is - Is the seal hunt needed or could/should the Canadian government be placing more resources into a long term solution to help the people find an alternative source of income?

I would be very interested in any response or opinion.

(I want to say I have no issues with individuals hunting seal, moose, deer, ect....)

Kennedydive
02-19-2009, 08:31
From my understanding and I'm no expert, stocks of seals were down to 1.2 million. They have been brought up since they regulated the cull to numbers from 5.5-9.5 million. Now how they get these numbers is beyond me. Ever try to count seals?
300,000 seals from a healthy population is not IMHO going to harm or deplete the seal population.
Synthetics although they look pretty good, from my understanding add much to global warming and will damage the earth and many other species.
I only had seal meat once. I remember it being very strong and sort of an oily/fatty meat that left a film on your tongue. Hard to explain.
Jason

CODMAN
02-19-2009, 08:42
[/quote]

So the question is - Is the seal hunt needed or could/should the Canadian government be placing more resources into a long term solution to help the people find an alternative source of income?

I would be very interested in any response or opinion.

(I want to say I have issues with individuals hunting seal, moose, deer, ect....)[/quote]

Is it needed by humanity to subsist? Hell no! It's an industry that serves a purpose (or else they wouldn't be doing it. It's freaking dangerous!!!!:smiley11:). But lots of things are not needed by humanity, yet we still do it. I won't start enumerating... It would be long and boring.:smilie39: But Humans, unlike animals, use resources (all kinds of them) for imaginary or human induced needs. We use much more than the basic human need...

Do humans need to be able to breathe underwater, go see fishies and while they are at it perturb the marine ecosystem? No they don't... But we do it anyways...:smiley2:

It's a very philosophical debate. And it varies greatly depending on each persons interests. And I don't believe there is a right or wrong in this.

That probably didn't answer your question, but it's food for thought!:smiley20:

DevilDiver
02-19-2009, 09:22
[/quote] So the question is - Is the seal hunt needed or could/should the Canadian government be placing more resources into a long term solution to help the people find an alternative source of income?

I would be very interested in any response or opinion.

(I want to say I have no issues with individuals hunting seal, moose, deer, ect....)[/quote]

Is it needed by humanity to subsist? Hell no! It's an industry that serves a purpose (or else they wouldn't be doing it. It's freaking dangerous!!!!:smiley11:). But lots of things are not needed by humanity, yet we still do it. I won't start enumerating... It would be long and boring.:smilie39: But Humans, unlike animals, use resources (all kinds of them) for imaginary or human induced needs. We use much more than the basic human need...

Do humans need to be able to breathe underwater, go see fishies and while they are at it perturb the marine ecosystem? No they don't... But we do it anyways...:smiley2:

It's a very philosophical debate. And it varies greatly depending on each persons interests. And I don't believe there is a right or wrong in this.

That probably didn't answer your question, but it's food for thought!:smiley20:[/quote]




I agree and I understand it is dangerous (as is fishing). I believe the questions here are (regarding the people more than the seals)-

Wouldn't it be better to develop an alternative more profitable source of income for the people in the long run?

If seal processing were left to market conditions without subsidies from the government would it even be worth continuing?

So I belive my point of view on this is-

There is no real global market for seal. It is costly and dangerous (to humans and seals). The working class is stuck with it while the money and power behind it take any real profit (political power or cash) without any long term solution to benifit the people and or industry involved.

So what you are left with is people that are in need of work and dead seals. :smiley5: Then it starts all over the next year........... Can't we think forward a little more and get on a better path for everyone?

CODMAN
02-19-2009, 12:37
[/quote]


There is no real global market for seal.
So what you are left with is people that are in need of work and dead seals. :smiley5: Then it starts all over the next year........... Can't we think forward a little more and get on a better path for everyone?[/quote]

Where did you get the idea that there is no market for seal? The furs are the most valuable item, then probably the fat and meat (yes, I know it's for dogfood, but that is still a market). So obviously, someone wants these products...

If the Hunters are out there doing this (which is costly and dangerous to do), there is certainly a good reason! Namely $$$$ And if they can make a decent living, harvesting these seals during the off season, what is the problem? The government is NOT subsidising this in any considerable manner. It's simply the market that makes it worth doing! Add to this the traditional value for people from a region where they've been doing it for generations... And add the fact that the seal population is in no threat whatsoever from this harvest...

So all this said, if the hunt is done in as humane a fashion as possible, why should we be telling them to do something else? The only reason I see is that some people don't like the idea of the hunt (for obvious reasons) which in my books is not good enough to go intervening. Other than them being cute, it's no different than slaughtering cows (if done humanely).

boates
03-02-2009, 14:22
I think the key here is as codman said, in a humane fashion, would put this issue to rest. There still are many communities that consume seal meat, and put every bit of the carcass to use. Anyone that thinks the general practices of slaughter houses are kind, well, the actual, killing perhaps, but the treatment in the stockyards, combined with the stench of death in the air, I can't imagine the panic and outright terror these animals are exposed to. The news cameras and celebs don't jump on that though. Different peoples, beliefs, customs, livelyhoods, rights, where does it end? Who's to say.

CODMAN
03-03-2009, 12:15
yeah, I was reading a report just this weekend stating that when properly administered, the club to the head is equivalent to the slaughter house methods when it comes to dealing a quick death blow.

Also, it seems Europe is at it again and are trying to impose an embargo on canadian seal products...:smiley29: Here we go again...:smiley32::smiley32: