PDA

View Full Version : Descending Issues in Ranger



namabiru
08-20-2007, 14:44
Before I bought my Zeagle Ranger, I always wore a jacket-style inflating BCD, and had no real issues with descending from the surface. I did as I was told, exhaling and letting the air out of my BCD, and sure enough, I would start descending.

Then I bought my Ranger, and it seems I'm having trouble with descending now. I'll do as I was doing before, only it seems I can't descend at the same rate as other people I'm diving with. If someone gives a small tug on a fin, and I get past 10' or so, I'm fine afterwards.

I've checked my weighting with a buoyancy check, and I'm properly weighted, and I really don't want to add any more weight as I don't like dealing with it at depth.

For the record, the issues have come when I'm wearing two wetsuits for warmth, a 5 mil with a 4/3 underneath. Could this have something to do with it? I've added weight to compensate for the extra neoprene, and did a buoyancy check and it was fine. Should I try again in one wetsuit and see if that's the issue? I will be in one wetsuit soon, when I go to the Bahamas.

Is there something else I can try, or something I can do, to help myself? It's kind of annoying, not being able to descend properly, as then I look like a diver with tons of problems, when in fact I didn't have this issue before.

No Misses
08-20-2007, 14:56
On the first dive of the day, you usually have some air trapped in your wetsuit. I usually invert and swim down. At the end of my dive if I have seriously emptied my tank. I am just barely negative at my safety stop. Just my .02

mm_dm
08-20-2007, 15:05
I often dive with a Ranger, had that problem from time to time. They can trap air and that will hold up your descent (that big bladder can be a big pain). I have to have the hose fully extended & upright. I doesn't hurt to lean a little to the right to get the trapped air over & up top to exit the hose. You may have additional air trapped in the suit as well, but usually that will work its way out as water begins to squeeze it. Also, I exhale the some of the air from my lungs prior to descent. Another thing you might do is cross your ankles before you descend. There is an unconscious tendency to fin slightly as one descends and even a slight movement willl work against you. It's usually that first few feet that is the problem, once you're past there you can better manage. Hope this helps.

deepdiver47
08-20-2007, 15:20
as mm_dm said, the first dive is the issue with mine as well.

If you are head first, Do a lean backwards coupled with one to the right side will put the air bubble where the dump valve is. And you will get that last bubble. This is also a sign that you are non over weighted.

If you are feet first then you can use either dump valve on either side of the bladder as the remaining air will be is on either the left or right

namabiru
08-20-2007, 18:28
Yeah, this may be some of the issue too--the Ranger does have a large bladder, and I'm sure air is not completely deflating. Not that I want to completely deflate and shoot to the bottom like a rock (eek) by any means...

During a descent, I've actually had to invert myself and descend more horizontally, kind of swimming down, in order to "get down" more. Which I shouldn't have to do, nor should I really be doing. But I find once I get past the 10' mark I can continue descending normally.

I will definitely make sure my hose is upright, and I will also try the lean. I'm guessing that's all it is--I'm not able to empty enough air out to descend.

I suppose something else I could do is not put a heap of air in my BCD to begin with, since I know I have this problem. Then if I weren't completely floating with my face completely out of the water I could breathe from a snorkel.

Lots to try. Need to make a diving date for sure.

Ted S
08-20-2007, 18:32
I dive a ranger as well and had a lot of difficulty with it at first until I added a few pounds of weight. Since then I've discovered that I just have to be more conscious about getting all the air out and if for some reason I'm not easily descending, it is because there's still air stuck somewhere. When you have issues, try moving around a bit to be sure not pockets are getting caught up by anything. It can also be useful to try and dump out of another valve rather than your inflator if you're really getting stuck -- although you may look silly in the process.

Splitlip
08-20-2007, 22:01
Yeah, this may be some of the issue too--the Ranger does have a large bladder, and I'm sure air is not completely deflating. Not that I want to completely deflate and shoot to the bottom like a rock (eek) by any means...

During a descent, I've actually had to invert myself and descend more horizontally, kind of swimming down, in order to "get down" more. Which I shouldn't have to do, nor should I really be doing. But I find once I get past the 10' mark I can continue descending normally.

I will definitely make sure my hose is upright, and I will also try the lean. I'm guessing that's all it is--I'm not able to empty enough air out to descend.

I suppose something else I could do is not put a heap of air in my BCD to begin with, since I know I have this problem.


No, don't do that. The air will still be trapped (if that is the case) when the wing is almost empty.
If you are talking about over weighting to compensate for the trapped air, then over inflating to compensate for the over added weight...well, your shooting yourself in the foot. You will create more issues (trim, drag....
Better to identify the issue for certain. If it is trapping air, figure out how to untrap. Or get a smaller wing (Zeagle is modular) or get another BC.
IMO

namabiru
08-22-2007, 01:14
If you are talking about over weighting to compensate for the trapped air, then over inflating to compensate for the over added weight...well, your shooting yourself in the foot. You will create more issues (trim, drag....


Yes, I felt the same way, and frankly was quite reluctant to add more weight to begin with. I am assuming, though, that wearing two wetsuits doesn't help matters a whole lot. I will also know more when I get to the tropics, and only have 1 suit on.

I do think that not all the air is escaping. It's interesting how, when I am squaring away gear and I decide to see how air is escaping, I hold the inflator hose and wait. Yet I can still take my hand and physically squeeze the bladder, and what seems like a heap of air comes out still.

Could something have gone ca-ca-coo-coo in my BCD?

Splitlip
08-22-2007, 23:15
If you are talking about over weighting to compensate for the trapped air, then over inflating to compensate for the over added weight...well, your shooting yourself in the foot. You will create more issues (trim, drag....


Yes, I felt the same way, and frankly was quite reluctant to add more weight to begin with. I am assuming, though, that wearing two wetsuits doesn't help matters a whole lot. I will also know more when I get to the tropics, and only have 1 suit on.

I do think that not all the air is escaping. It's interesting how, when I am squaring away gear and I decide to see how air is escaping, I hold the inflator hose and wait. Yet I can still take my hand and physically squeeze the bladder, and what seems like a heap of air comes out still.

Could something have gone ca-ca-coo-coo in my BCD?

I'm a big fan of Zeagle. The ranger wing is bigger than I ma used to. I had a Stiletto.
I have heard that the ranger traps air. Possibly because the straps and chords that tuck the wing in for streamlining. Most people I have talked with have told me they learned to move the bubble and were otherwise happy.
I did not have the problem with my Stiletto, but that was a smaller wing, less material.
Here is a thought. Unclip the wing retainers. Test dive it and see how that goes. Then maybe even remove the bungees.

Any thoughts from the gallery?

Other than that, the beauty of Zeagle is their modularity. Maybe see if you can pick up a smaller wing for your tropical trip.

kev99
09-03-2007, 20:59
I often dive with a Ranger, had that problem from time to time. They can trap air and that will hold up your descent (that big bladder can be a big pain). I have to have the hose fully extended & upright. I doesn't hurt to lean a little to the right to get the trapped air over & up top to exit the hose. You may have additional air trapped in the suit as well, but usually that will work its way out as water begins to squeeze it. Also, I exhale the some of the air from my lungs prior to descent. Another thing you might do is cross your ankles before you descend. There is an unconscious tendency to fin slightly as one descends and even a slight movement willl work against you. It's usually that first few feet that is the problem, once you're past there you can better manage. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the tips mm_dm; I went out today for the first time in my Brigade and noticed the same issues that namabiru spoke of. Seemed like it was taking longer to descend, but I did have on a 7mm full suit today and did my training dives in a 3mm with a different BC. I also know that I need to continue to work on my buoyancy control; my wife and I practiced some today and I would do OK but then go up or down too fast. I believe it was a mental thing for me as well trying to look at my gauge and control the deflating or inflating and focusing on my breathing. We were in the quarry and there was nothing to look at to fixate my eyes on as we were practicing in the open areas. I did OK in my classes as we went down on a line and fixated on a spot on a line to maintain a certain depth. Any tips for buoyancy control other than continuing practice, anyone?

scubafreak
09-04-2007, 00:43
I had the same issue when I first bought my Ranger. What helps for me is if I lean back slightly and to the right. I then do a little jiggle to move any trapped air and I'm off to the bottom.

If I am going head first, I tug the two dump valves on the bottom of the bladder and I have no problems descending.

meesier42
09-04-2007, 08:10
I had the same issue when I first bought my Ranger. What helps for me is if I lean back slightly and to the right. I then do a little jiggle to move any trapped air and I'm off to the bottom.

If I am going head first, I tug the two dump valves on the bottom of the bladder and I have no problems descending.

This was going to be my recommendation as well, just get head down and open up those bottom dumps, the rest of the air should belch right out.

mm_dm
09-04-2007, 09:05
I do the duck & dump at times as well. Depends on whether or not I'm assisting a student down the line; with students I prefer to maintain eye contact as we descend.

mm_dm
09-04-2007, 09:13
I often dive with a Ranger, had that problem from time to time. They can trap air and that will hold up your descent (that big bladder can be a big pain). I have to have the hose fully extended & upright. I doesn't hurt to lean a little to the right to get the trapped air over & up top to exit the hose. You may have additional air trapped in the suit as well, but usually that will work its way out as water begins to squeeze it. Also, I exhale the some of the air from my lungs prior to descent. Another thing you might do is cross your ankles before you descend. There is an unconscious tendency to fin slightly as one descends and even a slight movement willl work against you. It's usually that first few feet that is the problem, once you're past there you can better manage. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the tips mm_dm; I went out today for the first time in my Brigade and noticed the same issues that namabiru spoke of. Seemed like it was taking longer to descend, but I did have on a 7mm full suit today and did my training dives in a 3mm with a different BC. I also know that I need to continue to work on my buoyancy control; my wife and I practiced some today and I would do OK but then go up or down too fast. I believe it was a mental thing for me as well trying to look at my gauge and control the deflating or inflating and focusing on my breathing. We were in the quarry and there was nothing to look at to fixate my eyes on as we were practicing in the open areas. I did OK in my classes as we went down on a line and fixated on a spot on a line to maintain a certain depth. Any tips for buoyancy control other than continuing practice, anyone?

You're quite welcome. I have a few hundred dives on one of these. Once you get used to their quirks, mainly how they trap air, you will have a BC that will hold up to just about anything you can throw at it.