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thor
08-21-2007, 08:38
Don't get me wrong, I believe SB is a great resource for information, but do the people who use it have to be so snotty?

Recently a member of SB board posted some photos and asked for help on IDing them. I agreed with one of his ID's stating that I "thought" he was right. Then I get a PM from someone, whom I don't personally know entitled:

"A little more work on your IDs, Thor.+ " .. with a link to his post where he relpies that I was incorrect in my assumption. Now if I am wrong, fine, please point it out in a respectful way. The whole purpose of the forum is to voice one's opinion and let other's voice their's. ..

Do you really have to send me a private message telling me how wrong I was? Is that really necessary? I can read the post. Please don't let this kind of snobbery happen here.

Illini_Fan
08-21-2007, 08:42
PM sent...


just kidding :icon_mrgreen:


I don't post much on SB, but I know exactly what you mean from another board I frequent related to travel. The "old guard" seem to relish belittling the new users rather than actually helping.

ReefHound
08-21-2007, 08:45
Maybe it was uncalled for but at least he told you in a PM instead of calling you out in a public post to puff up his ego.

Jaymeany
08-21-2007, 08:51
my first scuba forum experience was with that board. It made me want ti not talkto another diver and that anything but the equipment that there one website says means you are stupid. They have a real narrow view. I am so glad I found this forum. but I dont think my wife is hehe

thor
08-21-2007, 09:07
Maybe it was uncalled for but at least he told you in a PM instead of calling you out in a public post to puff up his ego.


You would think that was the case. But No. He PMs me to send me the link where he then publicly calls me out to puff up his ego.

ReefHound
08-21-2007, 09:10
Well ain't that somethin'? Fortunately, most people can see that crapola for what it is.

cgvmer
08-21-2007, 09:10
UGH, the PM is good, the link to a public flogging is so asinine!

frankc420
08-21-2007, 09:12
Brush it off.. no need to let someone else ruin your day or even cause a bump!

thor
08-21-2007, 09:20
Brush it off.. no need to let someone else ruin your day or even cause a bump!



True that. The Thor has thick skin, (and a thick head apparently.) It's time for my self affirmation: I'm good enough,..I'm smart enough,.. and gosh darnit.. people like me.

subsur
08-21-2007, 09:27
SB is a great resource and I really learned a lot from there.
there is a percentage of people who are a-holes no matter where you look, and since the number of people is much bigger on SB than here, statistically you have more chances of encountering them. i'm sure that if this board grows to the same size, you'll see stuff like that.

nferra2
08-21-2007, 10:00
I lurk on SB more than anything else. I really only post in Dixie Divers, it seems more civilzied than the rest of the board.

ScubaToys Larry
08-21-2007, 10:12
Again guys... if anything like that ever happens here... let me know and I'll take care of it... quickly!

Harshal
08-21-2007, 10:16
Don't get me wrong, I believe SB is a great resource for information, but do the people who use it have to be so snotty?

Recently a member of SB board posted some photos and asked for help on IDing them. I agreed with one of his ID's stating that I "thought" he was right. Then I get a PM from someone, whom I don't personally know entitled:

"A little more work on your IDs, Thor.+ " .. with a link to his post where he relpies that I was incorrect in my assumption. Now if I am wrong, fine, please point it out in a respectful way. The whole purpose of the forum is to voice one's opinion and let other's voice their's. ..

Do you really have to send me a private message telling me how wrong I was? Is that really necessary? I can read the post. Please don't let this kind of snobbery happen here.

Let it go dude..... don't take it so personally..... maybe his intentions were not to hurt you or make you feel bad

Buoyant1
08-21-2007, 10:17
Again guys... if anything like that ever happens here... let me know and I'll take care of it... quickly!


OMG! LARRY'S THE SCUBA POLICE!

:smilie39::smilie39::smilie39::smilie39::smilie39: :smilie39:

I HAVE learned a bunch over there, but there are a few people that apparently learned to dive before the "agencies" took over and decided the training shouldn't be marine boot camp, who think that out of the box on your first post cert dive you should have perfect trim, get maximum time out o an AL 80, and not wear your mask on your forehead. (whilst denouncing your snorkel!)

Sorrry..it's not going to happen! Ya gotsa learn somehow! (and it's better to kick up the viz in a quarry than kick up a reef!)

greyzen
08-21-2007, 10:58
I've found SB to be decent enough... great info over there (No offense ST, they've been around longer :D) but yeah, the attitude seems a lot more laid back and friendly here.

I get the feeling that I am a little unworthy over there... and here I feel like I'm sitting in a dive shop talking :)

torrey
08-21-2007, 10:59
Did you at least call him out on going overboard calling you out? I agree, there's a few there that make new divers and old alike not want to say anything. It reminds me of the movie Tombstone where the one jerk running the gambling table makes nobody want to even go in there.

fire diver
08-21-2007, 11:37
....the attitude seems a lot more laid back and friendly here.
I get the feeling that I am a little unworthy over there... and here I feel like I'm sitting in a dive shop talking :)

Technically, you are.

FD

DougNR
08-21-2007, 11:41
I get the feeling that I am a little unworthy over there... and here I feel like I'm sitting in a dive shop talking :)

I like that analogy.

30 years ago before there was a C-card for hooking up the pee tube of your dry suit - hanging out at the dive shop was how you expanded your horizons. You listened to the more experienced and asked questions. No one berated the newbies. Sure there was good natured ribbing, but everyone came up the same way - it was the process of learning then. After a bit, you were invited to participate in dives, and helped to develop new skills. Ultimately you felt an obligation to help others as you had been.

Now it's about how many cards you have, and using them as badges of merit. It amazes me that a diver in our sport under a year can come across as such a cocky know-it-all but it happens all day long on SB. Personally, C-cards don't impress me. Nothing tells the story like diving with someone, and I'm sure I'm not alone saying there are many that talk the talk but can't walk the walk. Cyberdivers!

On the other hand, SB has plenty of great people too. Those that express views without making others feel stupid - those that have an interrest in sharing knowledge.

It can be hard not to let the stupidity affect you though. I use the ignore button pretty regularly on SB.

torrey
08-21-2007, 11:50
....the attitude seems a lot more laid back and friendly here.
I get the feeling that I am a little unworthy over there... and here I feel like I'm sitting in a dive shop talking :)

Technically, you are.

FD

You're talking about being unworthy, right? ;)

fire diver
08-21-2007, 12:05
....the attitude seems a lot more laid back and friendly here.
I get the feeling that I am a little unworthy over there... and here I feel like I'm sitting in a dive shop talking :)

Technically, you are.

FD

You're talking about being unworthy, right? ;)

You got it! :smiley32:

Just Kidding. Since this is the online discussion area for a dive shop called Scuba Toys, then actually we are all "kind of" sitting around in Larry and Joe's place chatting.

Hey Larry, how about putting in a coffee bar? I think my daughter would beg me to go down there if you did. Wait. On second though don't. I can't afford to be buying new dive gear every weekend.

FD

thesmoothdome
08-21-2007, 13:05
While I'm not one for censoring opinion or personality, I think it's important that we maintain the attitude that flaming won't be tolerated and if that means calling out someone's behavior, well, so be it. Like I tell the students I discipline, "it's not you I don't like, it's the behavior. Change the behavior and we'll get along fine."

Formerly 45yroldNewbie
08-21-2007, 13:30
I agree 100% It has gotten to the point where now I just post back at the "ELITE" over there in hopes of really pi$$ing em off. There is a lot of good info but some make it really unpleasant. I'm glad I found this forum and am even more thrilled that Larry is willing to keep this place comfortable.

TxScubaBear
08-21-2007, 13:46
Again guys... if anything like that ever happens here... let me know and I'll take care of it... quickly!


OMG! LARRY'S THE SCUBA POLICE!


Larry's just achin' to use his "ban" authority as a Super Mod!!
:smilie39:

WV Diver
08-21-2007, 14:18
I feel your pain Thor, but we have 900 members, SB has 81,000. This is not unique by any means. Actually it is human nature, there will always be those with issues who feel better about themselves if they can trash someone else.

Enjoy what we have here it won't last long enough but remember SB is still a good source, in my opinion, you have to deal with, ignore, or handle people there the same as in the real world. Don't let one bad apple ruin the pie. I know lots of those guys and dive with them. We cut up somethimes but we do it among ourselves and that's ok. I have made many friends and enriched my scuba vacations and experiences with SB. I found Larry and this board because of it, I'm not ready to scrap it just yet.

awap
08-21-2007, 15:25
Yes, but don't overlook the positive aspects of scubaboard. Where else do you get dive shop owners and employees coming up and saying the stupidest things you have ever heard. I miss an occasional " buy on the internet, die on the internet" or "its your life support" that can get some really lively discussions going.

greyzen
08-21-2007, 15:55
I still don't understand the "buy on the internet, die on the internet' mentality.
Being a dive shop doesn't exclude you from evolution and certainly doesn't single you out as 'special'.
Dive shop = Retail Specialty Store

If manufacturers choose to disallow or ban online sales that is their decision, not the shops.

If I *ever* get even so much as a nasty look for my online purchases, I will report the local dive shop to everyone that will listen. I've worked in big business enough to know which buttons to push. Your PADI licenses and 'exclusive' merch dealer contracts don't put you above anyone else in terms of service, and frankly I'm beginning to wonder if some of them have forgotten that.

mike_s
08-21-2007, 16:22
If you really want someone to be snotty, check out some of the other boards. They are pretty brutal.

Or go post on USENET: rec.scuba


The first reply will be likely something like this:

'Welcome to rec.scuba. Has anyone told you to f*** off yet?'


No... I'm not kidding

greyzen
08-21-2007, 16:32
anonymous bravery always makes me smile :)

I've come across so many 6'3" professional weight lifters who are married to a Miss Universe/Top Model and who work as Executives for fortune 50 companies on the internet. I know... I know... I've been blessed :smilie39:

People are welcome to have differing opinions, I don't mind...
People are welcome to make harsh suggestions, I don't mind...
People are *not* welcome to ostracizes me for making a financially sound decision like buy a UK SL4 from ST.com for half the cost of walking into a LDS and picking up the same thing.
Literally, HALF the price.

thesmoothdome
08-21-2007, 17:39
I think going forward, it's our choice if we tolerate the flaming. Discussion and disagreement is fine. Talking down to others and belittling peoples views is another. As we grow, we do not have to turn into another scubaboard and allow internet bullies to rule. Sure, Larry can ban everyone, but I think if we police ourselves and gently nudge people first, a lot of the bashing can be avoided. If not, that's what Larry is for :)>

deepdiver47
08-21-2007, 18:42
SB is like the world, you can find rude people if you look for them. I spend my time in the Asia area and you don't get that rudeness there. That has been my experience on the ground as well as people are more respectful of each other and most are very mellow people.

ianr33
08-21-2007, 20:13
I got called Farm Animal Stupid on SB. Made me feel quite proud of myself.

I rarely take that board seriously anymore which is sad,because I have learnt a lot from it in the past and have met some great buddies. Oh well.

Hollywood703
08-21-2007, 20:39
This isnt just a SB issue....you will find that on any Forum that has a large number of members from different nationailities and parts of the world......take it with a grain of salt and tell him to go 3%^# himself

Cichlid
08-21-2007, 21:26
What? Another board? What the heck are you guys talking about? I thought this was the only diving forum!

Really though, I'm lucky to have only "grown up" on ST. The first night I searched for a diving forum, SB was down and ST had just started...fate. :smiley20:

Krakenn
08-22-2007, 00:18
Well I like the people on this board they are helpful and ready to share their expereinces so willingly.

I would just like to say thanks to all of you. I have learnt so much off of all of you and I find it so pleasing to be among people that love this sport/obsession as much as i do. It is a great pleasue to be allowed to spent some time with all of you and to be able to speak with people who have sooo much experience that while I have had a few dives i will always be a tadpole!

All the best peeps and if I ever get a rude email ill just have a chuckle to myself then DELETE it.

Thanks for the laughs and stories peeps.

Kraks

Zenagirl
08-22-2007, 07:58
I have to agree with the OP about "it" getting old on SB sometimes. I enjoy and learn a lot from SB most of the time, but this morning I was treated to the same old crap that "PADI sucks and is trying to kill people with their training", and "You have to get a BP/W" recommendation. <sigh>

I hope this board is able to stay a little more open and tolerant than SB has become.

creggur
08-22-2007, 08:18
We're bound to get the rude, intolerant types in here eventually, but it seems that Larry has commited to keeping things civil around here... I think a lot of that is up to us.. I'm not one for censorship, or being a tattle-tale, but some of the rhetoric over there is uncalled for, and takes the fun out the forum experience..I think Larry will do what is needed to keep this place the way we all like it...

TommyB
08-22-2007, 08:57
We're bound to get the rude, intolerant types in here eventually, but it seems that Larry has commited to keeping things civil around here... I think a lot of that is up to us.. I'm not one for censorship, or being a tattle-tale, but some of the rhetoric over there is uncalled for, and takes the fun out the forum experience..I think Larry will do what is needed to keep this place the way we all like it...

No such thing as censorship on a forums. It's called Moderator's discretionary power to keep it on topic / civil etc.

"We'll never censor, but we may moderate) :) --

Jaymeany
08-22-2007, 08:57
If there is an intolerance for elitism from the start there shouldn't be a problem. when people step out of line and are mean they need to be talked to so that everyone feels welcomed. I think that if it is our goal to be nice and not have a personal agenda (ex everyone in a bp/w) it should be a ton of fun. :smiley20:

Hollywood703
08-22-2007, 09:23
A handful of people will never learn...no matter how much warning they are given......Just take it with a grain of salt and move on...If you let people bring you down, they will.

ScubaToys Larry
08-22-2007, 09:57
A handful of people will never learn...no matter how much warning they are given......

That's why we have the ability to ban ips! :smiley20: :smiley36:

I sincerly hope it never gets to that level - it hasn't yet. I've had a few posts where I thought it was justified to send a pm here or there, or post up myself... but overall, I am very happy with the great bunch of folks we have here. I will do everything in my power to have it continue like that. (and I have a lot of power! :smiley2:)

You can see that I have not censored posts naming other boards, shops, gear we don't carry, etc. My only goal will be not to censor information - only rude behavior. If you ever feel I cross the line - please let me know.

Jaymeany
08-22-2007, 10:01
Thats why you ROCK!!!!
:bush2:

dallasdivergirl
08-22-2007, 10:09
I never posted on SB.

I felt like an idiot just reading some of the posts.

it's much better here. Plus my LDS is Scubatoys.

fire diver
08-22-2007, 10:12
LOL SB is down again. Big suprise!

FD

Flatliner
08-22-2007, 14:32
I spend WAY too much time on SB. I have of course seen the behavior people are talking about BUT I have also seen the "good stuff". This spring I connected with a group of divers through SB who dove with me in Laguna Beach. They were "DIR" and in spite of the fact that I was a total noobie, had a near panic attack prior to the dive, and basically was the instabuddy from hell as for my basic scuba skills they were really helpful, friendly, and I walked away really wanting to become a better diver. So... Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Buoyant1
08-22-2007, 15:12
I guess my problem with the usual discussion over there (or should I say reasons for problems to the discussions) are the STRONG opinions! : ANYTHING PADI is bad!
ANY "brick & mortar" LDS you can DRIVE to is bad, (include that the owners are all money hungry misers as well)
and ANY BCD (other than a bp/w) is BAD!

I love opinions, I love options, but there are always exceptions to the rule!

We have two LDS' in my general area. One is the atypical type of shop that people complain about (as well as their questionable "get 'em in, get'em certified" training standards)

The one I use is one that is progressive, friendly, price competetive, AND has a top notch training staff...so I see the extremes.

greyzen
08-22-2007, 15:27
My only complaint about the other forum is the PADI is bad and if you haven't dove 2500+ dives you are obviously a worthless looser who needs to learn how to dive.

A new poster might not be a SSI/NAUI/PADI DM/DI with 100 certifications but that doesn't mean they are less than worthless or stupid.
Ignorance does not equate stupid, answering a stupid question that has been asked a million times means... YOU ARE POSTING ON FORUMS.

If you don't want to answer someone's stupid question... close the thread and move on with your pathetic elitism... don't try to e-hurt them to make you feel e-better. Only children do that, because children are naturally insecure...

Jaymeany
08-22-2007, 15:29
My issue is that you get yelled at for posting a question that has already been answered. So all gear questions are answered with the same answers. "look at the DIR site" and "BP/W" . It just feels like no matter what you post someone is going to say "I answered that 452 posts ago and your answer is go with a BP/W and a 7ft hose aren't you listening?". It's too bad I'm sure there is good info there but if you're afraid to get roughed up with every question then the pearls of wisdom aren't worth it. Especially if the nice people here use that board too. I can good polite answers here from just the nice people.

creggur
08-22-2007, 15:35
"USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION"

That's my favorite. If I have a question I've already used the search function, and couldn't find an answer, or maybe I'm looking for a different perspective....If you don't want to answer then don't....If you want to be helpful and you know where the answer might be then throw up a link, and I'll check it out..

Can't stand that....

ScubaToys Larry
08-22-2007, 15:42
Creggur, this topic has already been covered. Use the search before you post such dribble! :smiley36:

Jaymeany
08-22-2007, 15:45
There is another forum I use that does a great job with that. He uses stickys to direct you where to go. Common questions and the discussion of the answer are referenced at the top of the forum. This way you can say in the post from"yadda yadda" you talked about this what about this other thing. If you drop a common question he says" its great to have you here I have already answered that question here "x" and you may find answers to your other questions in the same spot. But after you read those feel free to ask another question. He makes you feel so welcome.

greyzen
08-22-2007, 15:56
Creggur, this topic has already been covered. Use the search before you post such dribble! :smiley36:
God, it's already happening...

et tu larry?

greyzen
08-22-2007, 15:58
Yeah, a forum I used to frequent (I still lurk sometimes...) does that.
They have like 3 stickies per 'section' to provide common Q&A's that the moderators developed and locked so it's not just hard to read/understand threads that seemed logical when they were sticked.

dallasdivergirl
08-22-2007, 16:01
you guys don't know elitism until you go to the dog forum I visit for help with my active intelligent non-listening dog. They are brutal. Since I don't use the dog for working purposes obviously I am a horrible owner and have nothing to say and no one will even acknowledge my questions. At least as SB they make me feel like a goof.

Jaymeany
08-22-2007, 16:07
Did the whole dog thing and got out because of that. My parents do it, and love it. It's pretty cool for them. as a side note I am watching my parents 3 week old puppies and William Wegman just called (he makes the calendars of the weimaraners) the house. I didn't answer because I didn't know what to say. So I guess there is good in it for them. But I digress. Everyone here is very nice and I want to dive with all of you at least once! or at least try.

greyzen
08-22-2007, 16:07
you guys don't know elitism until you go to the dog forum I visit for help with my active intelligent non-listening dog. They are brutal. Since I don't use the dog for working purposes obviously I am a horrible owner and have nothing to say and no one will even acknowledge my questions. At least as SB they make me feel like a goof.

You have a dog but don't use it for working purposes? :smiley22:
Why didn't you disclose this when we were discussing your membership here?
I think we're done here.:sulkoff:

ReefHound
08-22-2007, 17:02
That's my favorite. If I have a question I've already used the search function, and couldn't find an answer, or maybe I'm looking for a different perspective....If you don't want to answer then don't....If you want to be helpful and you know where the answer might be then throw up a link, and I'll check it out..

It may be the case with many that they have already tried searching or want additional input, but it's also the case with many who are just too lazy and want to be spoon fed. I get it all the time at work with users who have questions about Excel or Word or such, basic stuff that if they simply click help and type one word they'll get the precise answer. They refuse to do it.

I agree it is not good to meet every newbie question with "go search". On the other hand, reinventing the same wheel over and over will lead to dozens of threads on the topic that will overwhelm the next guy like you that tries to use search beforehand. Instead of getting a few threads that cover the matter in depth, he gets dozens of threads where people repeat the same things. After reading a few he's going to give up. By directing them to the previous thread(s), they can read what has already been covered to gain a base understanding, then if their Q is not answered they can ask it in that thread so that when answered it builds upon the existing knowledge document.

Jaymeany
08-22-2007, 17:11
I think a lot of "non-searchers" are new posters so excited to find a board and in this specific case that board up and running they just post. "what a wonderful thing I have found! Maybe I should ask about that problem I've been having?" :Post;Reply: "Oh, ok sorry, I'll just go away now"

That was me that happened to by the way.

Now I'm happy here.

There are nice ways to go about it, and vindictive ways. I prefer to be polite and friendly.

greyzen
08-22-2007, 17:18
the biggest problem I've seen with most of those "Go away" feeling posts is they send the message of "Sure, abuse the newbies... you are better than they are anyhow"

Now, granted... the old sea dogs need a place to talk shop without a bunch of newbies jumping around asking "Which snorkel is best for me... I'm diving cold water, nothing too deep though.. and I don't have fins yet"

As someone who is a newbie here and who has been a newbie and an elitest (in experience, if not attitude) on other forums.. it's very hard to separate who's who a lot of times and after the 50'th person asking about your favorite snorkel brand, it gets old.

Jaymeany
08-22-2007, 17:21
Agreed, it does get old. But the newbies are the future of the sport. They may be on that newbies dive boat one day, or asking that newbie for a discount. :smiley2:

greyzen
08-22-2007, 17:24
Oh sure... I for one plan on becoming as involved in the diving community as I can be.

Personally I've always tried to remember that we are all newbies our first time... and since I've been in and around cust. service and training for years it might be a little easier for me than others...

My main complaint is when a newbie walks into a forum (figuratively you understand) and almost has to prove themselves an experienced jerk-off like the rest of the forum, or go belly up and boot lick to become accepted as a ill-informed screwup.

Jaymeany
08-22-2007, 17:26
What if they have a foot fetish. The they get off easy!:smiley16:

tone
08-22-2007, 20:44
tons o @wh0les over there...

fire diver
08-22-2007, 21:52
It's not that there's a lot of trouble makers over there, but the ones there run amuck. SB may have 81,000 members but most of them never post. They either signed up, lurked and left, or were active members and have since left.

The problem with SB lately is that the trouble makers aren't kept in check. They are allowed to post insulting and inflamatory comments. But when someone speaks up about thier behavior, they get PM's from the mods explaining that thier message has been edited becuase you can't say such and such things about people (whether they are true or not). Sometimes they edit the abuser's posts, sometimes not. Either way the abuser is still roaming the board causing trouble when he should be kicked off.

After my last confrontation over there, I wrote off SB for the most part. I lurk for a couple minutes a day, and make the occasional post but that's it. I'm tired of the trolls, I'm tired of some of thier policies, I'm tired of the people who have been diving for ever and still don't know $#!@ but refuse to take advice, and I'm tired of the pubescent teenage posers. But most of all I'm tired of "If you buy from the internet, where are you going to get your air fills next year" and the ever present "It's life support".

Maybe if I take a year off, and come back fresh I can lend advice and opinions to newbies again, but right now I can't even go there.

Thankfully, I LIKE coming here. People here are still friendly and we haven't started fighting simply becuase we use different gear.

FD

thesmoothdome
08-22-2007, 23:40
Yes, the old timers deserve to have their discussions. No, they don't have the right to tell everyone asking about a new snorkel to use the search mode. People are allowed to post threads that interest them. No one is forced to answer. If you don't have something useful to say, don't post in that thread. It doesn't hurt anyone if the thread is posted. It does hurt someone if they get rude responses.

greyzen
08-23-2007, 00:12
Oh I don't deny that they should be polite and friendly, however I also know that in a lot of cases... the anonymity of the inter webs give people this strange empowerment.

thesmoothdome
08-23-2007, 00:26
I agreee completely, but I also believe that if you call people on their behavior early enough they'll either change it for the better or make their behavior even more reprehensible, which will lead to being banned. Rarely do you have someone remain even keeled when being told they're behavior isn't desireable.

creggur
08-23-2007, 06:43
There's ways to answer people's questions without being a condescending jerk. There's also a way to give constructive critisism without being an ass. I think folks are more receptive to critiques when it's done in a constructive manner. Particularly people who are new to an endeavor that may just be looking to belong to the community a little bit. If you slam them they will just go away. Doesn't help the sport at all..

texarkandy
08-23-2007, 07:03
That's my favorite. If I have a question I've already used the search function, and couldn't find an answer, or maybe I'm looking for a different perspective....If you don't want to answer then don't....If you want to be helpful and you know where the answer might be then throw up a link, and I'll check it out..

It may be the case with many that they have already tried searching or want additional input, but it's also the case with many who are just too lazy and want to be spoon fed. I get it all the time at work with users who have questions about Excel or Word or such, basic stuff that if they simply click help and type one word they'll get the precise answer. They refuse to do it.

I agree it is not good to meet every newbie question with "go search". On the other hand, reinventing the same wheel over and over will lead to dozens of threads on the topic that will overwhelm the next guy like you that tries to use search beforehand. Instead of getting a few threads that cover the matter in depth, he gets dozens of threads where people repeat the same things. After reading a few he's going to give up. By directing them to the previous thread(s), they can read what has already been covered to gain a base understanding, then if their Q is not answered they can ask it in that thread so that when answered it builds upon the existing knowledge document.

I agree in part, but -

I think some when they tell someone else to "go search" may not always mean it in a rude way - they just don't get/understand that you sometimes have to insert a "tone" into your post so the reader knows in what manner you meant it. Internet forums & chat are not like in-person where you have tone-of-voice, facial expressions, body language.

And then there are some who are just plain rude or bullies on the internet.

cummings66
08-23-2007, 07:29
Plus there are those who are just abrasive by nature. If you've been around a while over there you know that so and so will post like that and it's no big deal.

To a newbie over there I can see how some people might come off very badly, there's at least one poster over there that the first thing you should do is slap him around a bit and then post the question because he'll get carried away on the very first post.

To be honest, I don't see the attitude of buy on the Internet and you'll die or the BP/W is the answer to life bit either. I see that posted of course but don't see it being the top posting responses though.

I personally try to be nice, that's because that is how I am in person. I try to stick up for the underdog and help them grow at the same time, its a tough thing to walk that path however. However I can predict with a fair amount of accuracy the responses a poster will get at different forums because I've been there a while.

Here it's usually friendly and you don't see the snide comments like you do over there. That's why I like it, no sniping.

Charlotte Smith
08-23-2007, 08:16
Don't sweat the small stuff.....

fire diver
08-23-2007, 08:27
Don't sweat the small stuff.....

Saw this on a business marque the other day....

"Don't sweat the petty things, don't pet the sweaty things"

FD

ReefHound
08-23-2007, 08:38
I think some when they tell someone else to "go search" may not always mean it in a rude way - they just don't get/understand that you sometimes have to insert a "tone" into your post so the reader knows in what manner you meant it. Internet forums & chat are not like in-person where you have tone-of-voice, facial expressions, body language.

That's essentially my point. It's all in the delivery. It's not the act of directing a questioner to use the search feature to find his answers that is the problem, it's the manner in which it is done. If we vilify the Search word to the point that users are afraid to tell a poster to use it, that poster may ultimately miss out on a ton of valuable info.

Disneymom
08-23-2007, 08:51
the biggest problem I've seen with most of those "Go away" feeling posts is they send the message of "Sure, abuse the newbies... you are better than they are anyhow"

Now, granted... the old sea dogs need a place to talk shop without a bunch of newbies jumping around asking "Which snorkel is best for me... I'm diving cold water, nothing too deep though.. and I don't have fins yet"

As someone who is a newbie here and who has been a newbie and an elitest (in experience, if not attitude) on other forums.. it's very hard to separate who's who a lot of times and after the 50'th person asking about your favorite snorkel brand, it gets old. That is precisely the feeling newbies get. How else are newbies supposed to learn? And there'll always be newbies. I know that personally I have read and read here, and seen a lot of good information from people who will readily share their opinions, experiences, tips and knowledge. I don't feel 'guilty' asking what I might think is a stupid question here. There's really a lot of little details to this sport that a seasoned diver may take for granted but a newbie doesn't know, and it won't necessarily get covered in a class. Therefore, it's nice to have a community of folks to whom we can come.

Yeah, 'what kind of snorkel' may become redundant after a few years of hearing it, but the new kids on the block HAVE to learn from the old salts. And we appreciate it when the old salts are not so arrogant that replies are made in an impersonal, condescending manner.

I only hope that one day I'll be able to be the one answering the questions posed to by newbies who are just discovering the joy and addiction of this wonderful activity. Many thanks to Larry and Joe for making this place available and to the other members here for keepin' it real.

DiverBob
08-27-2007, 22:18
I get the feeling that I am a little unworthy over there... and here I feel like I'm sitting in a dive shop talking :)

I like that analogy.

30 years ago before there was a C-card for hooking up the pee tube of your dry suit - hanging out at the dive shop was how you expanded your horizons. You listened to the more experienced and asked questions. No one berated the newbies. Sure there was good natured ribbing, but everyone came up the same way - it was the process of learning then. After a bit, you were invited to participate in dives, and helped to develop new skills. Ultimately you felt an obligation to help others as you had been.

Now it's about how many cards you have, and using them as badges of merit. It amazes me that a diver in our sport under a year can come across as such a cocky know-it-all but it happens all day long on SB. Personally, C-cards don't impress me. Nothing tells the story like diving with someone, and I'm sure I'm not alone saying there are many that talk the talk but can't walk the walk. Cyberdivers!

On the other hand, SB has plenty of great people too. Those that express views without making others feel stupid - those that have an interrest in sharing knowledge.

It can be hard not to let the stupidity affect you though. I use the ignore button pretty regularly on SB.


Ditto!! Very well stated.

grasshopper
08-28-2007, 02:06
This site is awesome. I don't think the other board can touch this. Plus I don't see the clicks here that have formed on the other site. The links to the forum from the shop section is awesome. I can get a look, good price and see what everyone has to say about it, good and bad.

greyzen
08-28-2007, 07:46
I don't think the other board can touch this. Plus I don't see the clicks here that have formed on the other site.


Thats just because you haven't been invited to our secret meetings! :smilie39:

J/K, your decoder ring is in the mail:smiley2:

frankc420
08-28-2007, 07:54
Rather than telling someone to go search for something, it's a lot easier to have that 'Customer Service' type approach and do the search for them. That way, you can be sure that the information provided is accurate and what they were looking for.

I agree, SB has a lot of jackasses that would rather tell someone that doesn't know something to search for it and they think that's helping.. but really it's discouraging the new divers or those that don't know the answers. It doesn't matter how much micro management SB has, it will always be full of asses.

Besides, the search function on SB sucks.

RikRaeder
08-28-2007, 08:05
There's one in every crowd (ok more like a bunch)

ReefHound
08-28-2007, 08:36
Rather than telling someone to go search for something, it's a lot easier to have that 'Customer Service' type approach and do the search for them. That way, you can be sure that the information provided is accurate and what they were looking for.

I'm not a Scubatoys "customer service" employee. It's not my responsibility that someone gets the information they were looking for. It's their responsibility. I'm willing to help those who are willing to help themselves.

porsche060
08-28-2007, 08:36
Not the message board but a random encounter. You should post where-ever you want to. If that person comes here would you leave ST?

Capt Hook
08-28-2007, 15:44
I've been a member of SB since the pre Netdoc days and still post reguarly.
Like most boards there are a number of "expert" posters who can get under you skin, but all in all a great tool.
Problem is it's gotten SO big every item under the sun gets reposted by newer members.

thor
08-28-2007, 16:05
Saw this over at SB today. It's from one of us, but not me. (Although I wish I had thought of it first)




I want my username & Profile removed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I regret that I find this site is no longer useful to me. I can find any information I might need from other areas and I won't need to be subjected to the Elitism and snobbish attitudes that are rampant on this forum. It is too bad that experience and accomplishment equate to the apparent rite of ridcule and boorishness that I see in almost every thread on this forum. I can only hope that the attitudes I see expressed here are expressed becuase it is easy to be an *** anonymously and that in the real world divers are freindly and helpful; not judgmental and holier than thou because on one cert or another from some other agency etc etc etc.

I wish all good luck and safe diving and for those of you who who I described above may we never meet.

ScubaBoard please let me know when my username and information have been removed via my email.

Regards & Farewell

willardj
08-28-2007, 16:18
Saw this over at SB today. It's from one of us, but not me. (Although I wish I had thought of it first)




I want my username & Profile removed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I regret that I find this site is no longer useful to me. I can find any information I might need from other areas and I won't need to be subjected to the Elitism and snobbish attitudes that are rampant on this forum. It is too bad that experience and accomplishment equate to the apparent rite of ridcule and boorishness that I see in almost every thread on this forum. I can only hope that the attitudes I see expressed here are expressed becuase it is easy to be an *** anonymously and that in the real world divers are freindly and helpful; not judgmental and holier than thou because on one cert or another from some other agency etc etc etc.

I wish all good luck and safe diving and for those of you who who I described above may we never meet.

ScubaBoard please let me know when my username and information have been removed via my email.

Regards & Farewell
Most people probley feel this way. It seems that everything is eather their way or it's wrong and you are the bad person for not doing it their way. Is it just me?

in_cavediver
08-28-2007, 16:35
You know, I was/am on SB since 2002. I came here selfishly enough to save some dough on a new O2 sensor but instead found a much nicer group of posters. I now find when I get the urge to talk diving, I come here first (rather than SB). I'm sure that will change over time as the user load comes up and more of the 'positions' become established as the way the board goes.

Pity when it happens.

Zenagirl
08-28-2007, 16:46
I agree Cavediver, so I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts.

greyzen
08-28-2007, 16:56
Well, I'd think with people like LArry and Joe keeping their presence felt here the decline will take much longer... that and I think the people who post a lot are generally not as 'advanced' in their scuba education.

Whoever posted that on Scubaboard is going to be pissed. I was informed it was "policy" for scubaboard to retain all user account information forever if you ever post there.

plot
08-28-2007, 17:15
Use it as a tool and brush off all the tools that post and you'll be fine.

Honestly, there's good and bad info there. Everyone wants to put in their 2 cents and try to outshine the million other members... in the end, everyone realizes who the idiots are and who the good posters that are genuinely trying to be helpfull are. The rest get lost in the pile.

Granted I havn't posted their since I started posting here, but that doesn't mean there's questions I wouldn't go back their for. You just need a thicker flamesuit than usual for that forum.

Desert_Diver
08-28-2007, 18:43
You know, I was/am on SB since 2002. I came here selfishly enough to save some dough on a new O2 sensor but instead found a much nicer group of posters. I now find when I get the urge to talk diving, I come here first (rather than SB). I'm sure that will change over time as the user load comes up and more of the 'positions' become established as the way the board goes.

Pity when it happens.


That is similar to my situation. SB has some knowledgable, friendly folk. But unfortunately, they also have some arrogant, self important individuals who lurk just outside the fire light to pounce on any error, or statement that doesn't conform to their personal diving theology. It really takes the fun out of posting.

And even here, I find myself reading a lot more than I post, mostly out of habit developed over there. (shrug). What the HR Dept. would call a "hostile environment" syndrome.

Art

thesmoothdome
08-28-2007, 18:55
You know, I was/am on SB since 2002. I came here selfishly enough to save some dough on a new O2 sensor but instead found a much nicer group of posters. I now find when I get the urge to talk diving, I come here first (rather than SB). I'm sure that will change over time as the user load comes up and more of the 'positions' become established as the way the board goes.

Pity when it happens.


Maybe I'm being a bit of a Polyanna here, but I firmly believe that we can dictate the tone of the board and if we don't allow that elitism and egotism to become established, we can maintain the homey feeling we have developed here.

Perrydogm
08-28-2007, 19:26
It due to not having a life of them self so they have to torment other people - oh well stuff happens lets go dive

Jaymeany
08-28-2007, 20:27
The way I feel is that we have a great core of people. The first 1000 members here are so nice that if we keep the elitist out then we can have the tone we want. There has recently been a post where people of this board showed their true colors and made sure things were fair. If the board as a whole wants to be a patient, understanding, polite board it will happen. Just because some rash individuals will show as the numbers grow doesn't mean they are welcome. if someone wants to participate in a patient polite way they fit in. If they say "my way or the highway" go to SB and argue your side there. I personally want diverse answers and opinions and the reasons why. You tell me why and how you came to that discussion and I will never ridicule you I will only want to know more information. Be fair, PATIENT, and polite and we can have a great board. (patience coming from people beening made at new post that are the same as old ones...please understand that a new poster may not be familiar with search function and may be so excited to find this forum that they just post their question. Please be understanding as a whole and welcome this person and direct them is an accepting way to a post that concerns their question) Everyone here is great and I feel honored to be part of this community!

JugglingMonkeys
08-28-2007, 21:08
I personally want diverse answers and opinions and the reasons why. You tell me why and how you came to that discussion and I will never ridicule you I will only want to know more information.

absolutely!
:smiley20:

Formerly 45yroldNewbie
08-28-2007, 22:10
Saw this over at SB today. It's from one of us, but not me. (Although I wish I had thought of it first)




I want my username & Profile removed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I regret that I find this site is no longer useful to me. I can find any information I might need from other areas and I won't need to be subjected to the Elitism and snobbish attitudes that are rampant on this forum. It is too bad that experience and accomplishment equate to the apparent rite of ridcule and boorishness that I see in almost every thread on this forum. I can only hope that the attitudes I see expressed here are expressed becuase it is easy to be an *** anonymously and that in the real world divers are freindly and helpful; not judgmental and holier than thou because on one cert or another from some other agency etc etc etc.

I wish all good luck and safe diving and for those of you who who I described above may we never meet.

ScubaBoard please let me know when my username and information have been removed via my email.

Regards & Farewell

Thor are you following me around?? I posted that today out pure frustration with those people. I checked back tonight just to see what if anything was done and found the following:

1. My Id still exists and works
2. I had a PM from one individual who probably belongs here instead of there. He was actually apologizing for the others!
3. I got a couple of flames to my post telling me how dumb I am for thinking my name would come off of the posts I've made (don't remember asking for that but oh well).
4. A few posts bidding farewell and good luck.

Nothing from a moderator or any one associated in an official capacity with the board.

I'm much happier here. Larry and Joe keep up the good work! If there is anything I can do to help out let me know.

awap
08-28-2007, 22:22
those[/B] people. I checked back tonight just to see what if anything was done and found the following:

1. My Id still exists and works
2. I had a PM from one individual who probably belongs here instead of there. He was actually apologizing for the others!
3. I got a couple of flames to my post telling me how dumb I am for thinking my name would come off of the posts I've made (don't remember asking for that but oh well).
4. A few posts bidding farewell and good luck.

Nothing from a moderator or any one associated in an official capacity with the board.

I'm much happier here. Larry and Joe keep up the good work! If there is anything I can do to help out let me know.

I doubt if they will take any action on your request. You can go into your profile and remove any info there that you can access. They could change your name, but I doubt if they will. They did block access to posts from one banned member (Genesis), at his request, but it was restored some time later.

I suggest you clean out what you can control (profile and editable posts) and put it behind you.

Good Luck

thesmoothdome
08-28-2007, 22:29
Glad you're here 45yearoldnewbie.

Formerly 45yroldNewbie
08-28-2007, 22:32
Glad you're here 45yearoldnewbie.

Me Too! Thanks!:smiley20:

DivingsInMyBlood
08-28-2007, 22:55
Glad you're here 45yearoldnewbie.

Me Too! Thanks!:smiley20:

you seem like you got it right about people crying whos cert is the best etc and so on (its got really old), heck were all divers and just want to have fun. :smiley20:

Formerly 45yroldNewbie
08-28-2007, 23:00
Glad you're here 45yearoldnewbie.

Me Too! Thanks!:smiley20:

you seem like you got it right about people crying whos cert is the best etc and so on (its got really old), heck were all divers and just want to have fun. :smiley20:

That's what I was lead to beleive was the overall attitude of divers. Then I saw the crap over there and was beginning to get discouraged about the whole scene.

Scubatoys to the rescue!! :banana:

thor
08-29-2007, 00:46
Thor are you following me around?? .



Yes, I am, moooohahahahah.

Jaymeany
08-29-2007, 06:07
those[/b] people. I checked back tonight just to see what if anything was done and found the following:

1. My Id still exists and works
2. I had a PM from one individual who probably belongs here instead of there. He was actually apologizing for the others!
3. I got a couple of flames to my post telling me how dumb I am for thinking my name would come off of the posts I've made (don't remember asking for that but oh well).
4. A few posts bidding farewell and good luck.

Nothing from a moderator or any one associated in an official capacity with the board.

I'm much happier here. Larry and Joe keep up the good work! If there is anything I can do to help out let me know.

I doubt if they will take any action on your request. You can go into your profile and remove any info there that you can access. They could change your name, but I doubt if they will. They did block access to posts from one banned member (Genesis), at his request, but it was restored some time later.

I suggest you clean out what you can control (profile and editable posts) and put it behind you.

Good Luck



or you could change your profile to something lude and get kicked off! write a bunch of random obscene comments...lol...you'll get it removed then.:smiley36:

tonka97
08-29-2007, 06:39
...I personally want diverse answers and opinions and the reasons why. You tell me why and how you came to that discussion and I will never ridicule you I will only want to know more information. Be fair, PATIENT, and polite and we can have a great board. (patience coming from people beening made at new post that are the same as old ones...please understand that a new poster may not be familiar with search function and may be so excited to find this forum that they just post their question. Please be understanding as a whole and welcome this person and direct them is an accepting way to a post that concerns their question) Everyone here is great and I feel honored to be part of this community!

Here's my take:

The larger a forum becomes, the more diverse it becomes. Both contributive and obnoxious.

There is a place for BOTH boards....my best solution is to judiciously use the "add user to ignore list" on Scubaboard or Scubatoys.

In retrospect, sometimes it has been good to be challenged, so that we can do more introspection and research. IE: use of independent doubles vs manifold.... there is no "right" answer but the subject on SB was hotly debated...my "ignore" list grew by a couple of users, and I understood better the issue. (I now have both types of doubles)

:smiley20:

fire diver
08-29-2007, 07:36
Completely disagree. The ignore function shouldn't even exist. If one user has become such a complete troll that people are choosing to ignore rather then get a migraine, that person should be banned from the board.

I'm all for a free exchange of ideas, but trolls should die a quick, painful death.

FD

awap
08-29-2007, 08:13
those[/b] people. I checked back tonight just to see what if anything was done and found the following:

1. My Id still exists and works
2. I had a PM from one individual who probably belongs here instead of there. He was actually apologizing for the others!
3. I got a couple of flames to my post telling me how dumb I am for thinking my name would come off of the posts I've made (don't remember asking for that but oh well).
4. A few posts bidding farewell and good luck.

Nothing from a moderator or any one associated in an official capacity with the board.

I'm much happier here. Larry and Joe keep up the good work! If there is anything I can do to help out let me know.

I doubt if they will take any action on your request. You can go into your profile and remove any info there that you can access. They could change your name, but I doubt if they will. They did block access to posts from one banned member (Genesis), at his request, but it was restored some time later.

I suggest you clean out what you can control (profile and editable posts) and put it behind you.

Good Luck



or you could change your profile to something lude and get kicked off! write a bunch of random obscene comments...lol...you'll get it removed then.:smiley36:

Nope. Nothing would get removed except for the objectionable material. You'd just get banned and lose all control. And it would accomplish nothing.

I've never used the ignore function. But I might troll one thru on occassion just to see the rise and broaden a discussion. A good old "spare air is better than no air" cast at the right moment will often get the big one out and jumping.

greyzen
08-29-2007, 10:00
I mentioned this further back 45, but basically they informed me it was policy that NO username would ever be removed (though they might lock you out of it). Like I said, they pad their numbers...

If 100 spam bots register, that's 100 users to sell to the banner ad companies.

greyzen
08-29-2007, 10:07
Completely disagree. The ignore function shouldn't even exist. If one user has become such a complete troll that people are choosing to ignore rather then get a migraine, that person should be banned from the board.

I'm all for a free exchange of ideas, but trolls should die a quick, painful death.

FD

I agree/disagree with this FD.

Yes trolls should diaf (Die in a Fire) but levels of tolerance are different for different people.

Watch :)

"Jesus Christ trolls piss me off...I hope they all die from flaming herpes!"

I promise there is someone out there who was upset/annoyed/repulsed/etc. by that comment. Undoubtedly there are people out there who would/will ignore me though others might laugh at it.

Moderators banning everyone would quickly ruin perfectly good forums. If a troll shows up (IE: that chump that was fighting about the can light), we all can rally around... settle the issue and then if they continue... ignore them.
If they begin to pester people and violate forum rules/etc. THEN mod's can get involved.

fire diver
08-29-2007, 10:35
Well that was what I was going for, guess it didn't come across. There are just certain people who become known as constant agitators (sp?). They constantly try to derail topics and start fights. These are the people who should recieve moderator banning.

FD

Splitlip
08-29-2007, 11:04
You know, I was/am on SB since 2002. I came here selfishly enough to save some dough on a new O2 sensor but instead found a much nicer group of posters. I now find when I get the urge to talk diving, I come here first (rather than SB). I'm sure that will change over time as the user load comes up and more of the 'positions' become established as the way the board goes.

Pity when it happens.


But unfortunately, they also have some arrogant, self important individuals who lurk just outside the fire light to pounce on any error, or statement that doesn't conform to their personal diving theology.



Art

That is the behavior I referred to in another thread as "going scubaboard" on you.:smiley36:

It is not everybody and I take it with a grain of salt. Except there IS one guy who is gonna get his ass kicked if we ever meet.

Jaymeany
08-29-2007, 11:21
I agree! If someone is being hurtful and condescending we as a community have the power to let it be known that this board is not about that and everyone is welcome as long as they are nice and patient.

thor
08-29-2007, 11:21
"going scubaboard" on someone. I love it. lol

Formerly 45yroldNewbie
08-29-2007, 11:27
You know, I was/am on SB since 2002. I came here selfishly enough to save some dough on a new O2 sensor but instead found a much nicer group of posters. I now find when I get the urge to talk diving, I come here first (rather than SB). I'm sure that will change over time as the user load comes up and more of the 'positions' become established as the way the board goes.

Pity when it happens.


But unfortunately, they also have some arrogant, self important individuals who lurk just outside the fire light to pounce on any error, or statement that doesn't conform to their personal diving theology.



Art

That is the behavior I referred to in another thread as "going scubaboard" on you.:smiley36:

It is not everybody and I take it with a grain of salt. Except there IS one guy who is gonna get his ass kicked if we ever meet.

Does he live in Florida or Indiana?

scubasavvy
08-29-2007, 12:34
I saw that post 45, I found the responses disgusting. Start advertising for another board and see if they terminate your account then...

GerryR
08-29-2007, 14:16
I think those people exist on every forum. It's too easy to be rude and nasty when you can be anonymous. I posted a question about buying a dive watch on that board and was basically told that if I didn't spend $500+ I was an idiot and the watch would self-destruct the first time it got wet. I bought a Casio analog watch on eBay for about $35 including shipping and it's survived about 30 dives on Bonaire, a week on the Middle Fork of the Salmon River and numerous other dunkings. It's still working great today.

Formerly 45yroldNewbie
08-29-2007, 16:46
QUICK UPDATE

I have received a few PM msgs from some very nice people from over there, I get notified via email to check PMs just like here, saying they were sorry to see me go etc. While I'm checking the PM some guy is stalking me and posting everytime I go on the board. Unbelievable!

I read through my last thread and just couldn't resist one more post. I'm sure I'll get flamed out again!!

Splitlip
08-29-2007, 17:32
You know, I was/am on SB since 2002. I came here selfishly enough to save some dough on a new O2 sensor but instead found a much nicer group of posters. I now find when I get the urge to talk diving, I come here first (rather than SB). I'm sure that will change over time as the user load comes up and more of the 'positions' become established as the way the board goes.

Pity when it happens.


But unfortunately, they also have some arrogant, self important individuals who lurk just outside the fire light to pounce on any error, or statement that doesn't conform to their personal diving theology.



Art

That is the behavior I referred to in another thread as "going scubaboard" on you.:smiley36:

It is not everybody and I take it with a grain of salt. Except there IS one guy who is gonna get his ass kicked if we ever meet.

Does he live in Florida or Indiana?
Oh no...not going there :) Can I get censured by that Board for talking here?

awap
08-29-2007, 18:02
[QUOTE=Splitlip;39758Oh no...not going there :) Can I get censured by that Board for talking here?[/QUOTE]

Yes you can. Check the history of banned scubaboard member Popeye.

thor
08-29-2007, 18:38
Just read the entire thread. What a bunch of marooons. Don't let it bother you 45. Not worth the effort. I added my own reply and threw down the gauntlet.

thor
08-29-2007, 18:57
OK, so I posted a reply the 45 yrold newbies thread, which I will entitle " a call for decency" asking for everyone to show some respect and common decency, and for other decent people to voice their intolerance for the bad attitude which has permeated the SB forum. Well. It looks like the entire thread was deleted, unless I am just imagining things. Was it the decency part that put them over the edge?

Formerly 45yroldNewbie
08-29-2007, 19:01
OK, so I posted a reply the 45 yrold newbies thread, which I will entitle " a call for decency" asking for everyone to show some respect and common decency, and for other decent people to voice their intolerance for the bad attitude which has permeated the SB forum. Well. It looks like the entire thread was deleted, unless I am just imagining things. Was it the decency part that put them over the edge?


:smilie39::smilie39::smilie39::smilie39::smilie39: :smilie39:

meesier42
08-29-2007, 21:00
well I have had a similar expirience to the originator it this thread, after talking about differences in BC's someone sends me a PM that my opinion was not justified as I have not tried the competor product.

Well F-U, I almost responded to him, but I decided not to be one of "THEM". I have an opinion that I have formed other more dives than I can remember and found the equipment that works best for me. Its my opinion and if someone asked me why I do or do not like a piece of gear I will gladly share it (with my reasoning/justification) with them, that is after all what these forums are really for isn't it.

frankc420
08-30-2007, 07:26
Rather than telling someone to go search for something, it's a lot easier to have that 'Customer Service' type approach and do the search for them. That way, you can be sure that the information provided is accurate and what they were looking for.

I'm not a Scubatoys "customer service" employee. It's not my responsibility that someone gets the information they were looking for. It's their responsibility. I'm willing to help those who are willing to help themselves.

It's being nice as a person! Personally I don't have to be paid for something to help someone the way I see to be the right way. If you have to be paid, maybe you are one of those that send them to use the search function! :smiley21:

Generally if someone is asking for help, they have already used the search function or padding their post count to get free gift certificates :)

Zenagirl
08-30-2007, 07:30
Just try posting that you don't like a BP/W! I even posted that here (about not liking crotch straps) and was immediately asked if I had ever tried one. Gee, should I have mentioned that I found the whole webbing on the BP/W to be somewhat uncomfortable in addition to hating the crotch strap? Oh, I've heard it all from "it wasn't fitted right" (it was), to "they're more comfortable in the water", to "you just have to get used to it". My response then was Why bother when I have a BC that is comfortable in and out of the water that I love? The response to that? "Because a BP/W is better." Then I ask how it's better than my Zeagle Zena, which is basically a corset with a wing and the only answer is how the BP/W is infinitely adjustable. <sigh> See where this is going?

Oh and YES I have tried a BP/W and prefer my Zena!

Aussie
08-30-2007, 07:42
Just try posting that you don't like a BP/W! I even posted that here (about not liking crotch straps) and was immediately asked if I had ever tried one. Gee, should I have mentioned that I found the whole webbing on the BP/W to be somewhat uncomfortable in addition to hating the crotch strap? Oh, I've heard it all from "it wasn't fitted right" (it was), to "they're more comfortable in the water", to "you just have to get used to it". My response then was Why bother when I have a BC that is comfortable in and out of the water that I love? The response to that? "Because a BP/W is better." Then I ask how it's better than my Zeagle Zena, which is basically a corset with a wing and the only answer is how the BP/W is infinitely adjustable. <sigh> See where this is going?

Oh and YES I have tried a BP/W and prefer my Zena!

Sometimes people love their kit so much that they go overboard in trying, in their eyes, to help you. They think BPW is the greatest bit of kit around and are over eager to tell you so.

I have 4 BPW so dont hold that against me. Use what works for you.

Cheers Aussie

frankc420
08-30-2007, 07:48
My problem isn't with my BP/W, it's with the 7' hose that continuously gets stuck behind me when gearing up, or in my waist belt when I'm buckling it.

I know it takes practice, but man is it irritating! Things were much easier with a 36" hose :)

Aussie
08-30-2007, 07:54
My problem isn't with my BP/W, it's with the 7' hose that continuously gets stuck behind me when gearing up, or in my waist belt when I'm buckling it.

I know it takes practice, but man is it irritating! Things were much easier with a 36" hose :)

You diving twins I presume. I have my 7 foot hose running straight down and between my cylinder and wing and clip it off on your right chest clip. Rarely I get it stuck on anything.

Aussie

ianr33
08-30-2007, 08:03
My problem isn't with my BP/W, it's with the 7' hose that continuously gets stuck behind me when gearing up, or in my waist belt when I'm buckling it.


When I am putting my gear together I arrange the 7 foot hose in a series of coils,then put the reg through them.Hard to explain but kind of like a garden hose.I then clip the coiled hose off to my right chest D ring which gets it out of the way so it does not get tangled up in anything.After getting in the water I unclip it and route it correctly

greyzen
08-30-2007, 08:19
I'm still trying to work out a way to make fun of BP/W's and become a BC Nazi...

I don't know much about BP/W, but i do know trends and people who are in my face about how great a product is.. normally are profiting from it, or crazy.

thesmoothdome
08-30-2007, 08:19
7 foot hose? BP/W? Uh oh....better move this to the DIR section before it gets ugly. :smilie39::smilie39::smilie39: .

fire diver
08-30-2007, 08:37
Just try posting that you don't like a BP/W! I even posted that here (about not liking crotch straps) and was immediately asked if I had ever tried one. Gee, should I have mentioned that I found the whole webbing on the BP/W to be somewhat uncomfortable in addition to hating the crotch strap? Oh, I've heard it all from "it wasn't fitted right" (it was), to "they're more comfortable in the water", to "you just have to get used to it". My response then was Why bother when I have a BC that is comfortable in and out of the water that I love? The response to that? "Because a BP/W is better." Then I ask how it's better than my Zeagle Zena, which is basically a corset with a wing and the only answer is how the BP/W is infinitely adjustable. <sigh> See where this is going?

Oh and YES I have tried a BP/W and prefer my Zena!

One of those you spoke of was probably me. And as was said earlier, those of us who love our BP/W after diving BC's are usually just more eager to help you love it too. Part of loving it is making sure it fits properly. Did you ever try the crotch strap? :smiley36: Just kidding.

We know that one piece of gear isn't right for everyone. Dive what you like. So far I don't think I have seen anyone saying things like, "you're going to die if keep diving in a BC", or "you're just too stupid to know whats good and what isnt". I have seen variations on those many times on other boards.

So please forgive us our zealotry as long as we are polite about it.

FD

ReefHound
08-30-2007, 08:42
It's being nice as a person! Personally I don't have to be paid for something to help someone the way I see to be the right way. If you have to be paid, maybe you are one of those that send them to use the search function! :smiley21:

It has nothing to do with being nice as a person. I've said before it's in the delivery, one can direct a user to a search in a nice manner or give them specific answers in a rough manner.

With your profile of 25-50 dives all these discussions are probably pretty fresh for you, let's see how you feel after you've been through them dozens of times. I doubt you will find yourself providing as complete information about fins/reg/whatever the 10th time someone asks as you did the first few times. And who is really helping the poster more, the guy who types out a short incomplete answer off the top of his head or the guy who points towards previous in-depth discussions on the topic?

I would disagree with your statement that most people who ask questions have already used search.

BTW, I'm curious about tides in the gulf but I'm a little busy right now. How about doing some research and getting back to me with an executive summary? :smiley36:

thesmoothdome
08-30-2007, 08:47
But reefhound, isn't it easier to just ignore the topic completely.

ReefHound
08-30-2007, 09:05
But reefhound, isn't it easier to just ignore the topic completely.

So you end up with newbie questions being ignored by all the guys with lots of experience while being answered by ... all the guys with little or no experience? The blind leading the blind?

If there is a wealth of information in previous discussion threads but nobody points the OP to them, how is this in the best interests of the OP?

greyzen
08-30-2007, 09:09
I doubt you will find yourself providing as complete information about fins/reg/whatever the 10th time someone asks as you did the first few times. And who is really helping the poster more, the guy who types out a short incomplete answer off the top of his head or the guy who points towards previous in-depth discussions on the topic?



This is why I suggested we, as users and providers of great wisdom and knowledge, formulate stickied discussions in each forum section with a "F.A.Q." (have them locked and heavily moderated so off-topic information is expunged.)

thesmoothdome
08-30-2007, 14:58
But reefhound, isn't it easier to just ignore the topic completely.

So you end up with newbie questions being ignored by all the guys with lots of experience while being answered by ... all the guys with little or no experience? The blind leading the blind?



Not at all. You're assuming that only people of limited experience will be willing to answer those questions. Guys with experience who want to join the discussion and share their views can do so. I find myself answering questions that I've already answered, but do so because I choose to help the person asking. Most people are not stupid and can find the search function without being told to go find it.

thor
08-30-2007, 15:11
7 foot hose? BP/W? Uh oh....better move this to the DIR section before it gets ugly. :smilie39::smilie39::smilie39: .


Good thing this isn't SB, or else it probably would have been deleted by now and we would all be sent to rooom 101 for bad divers. ...and we're back on topic.

greyzen
08-30-2007, 15:32
Good thing this isn't SB, or else it probably would have been deleted by now and we would all be sent to rooom 101 for bad divers. ...and we're back on topic.
:WHIPA::WHIPA::WHIPA::WHIPA::WHIPA::WHIPA::WHIPA:: WHIPA::WHIPA:
BACK!!! BACK BLASPHEMORE! BACK!

ReefHound
08-30-2007, 16:20
Not at all. You're assuming that only people of limited experience will be willing to answer those questions. Guys with experience who want to join the discussion and share their views can do so. I find myself answering questions that I've already answered, but do so because I choose to help the person asking. Most people are not stupid and can find the search function without being told to go find it.

First, the number of experienced users who will exhibit such patience is pretty small, unless one is just a natural born teacher or someone who likes to repeat themselves over and over. So while you might not have a complete lack of response from experienced users, the response will be less.

Second, I'm not talking about questions with a relatively simple answer like "who makes this widget" or "where can I find that widget" but ones that you could write a book about such as "jacket vs BP/W". You might rat a tat off a few points but I can't believe you are going to rehash the same comprehensive tutorial that you have probably given at one time in the past.

Third, you continue to not hear me when I say it is all in the delivery. Just saying "go search" is rather curt and cold (and you won't find any such thing in my 350+ posts), and quite different from saying "this matter was discussed in depth here a few months ago, lots of great info in that thread, try searching for 'bc jacket versus wings'".

Do you guys get my point yet? I'm not advocating brushing off newbies or being impolite to anyone.

ScubaToys Larry
08-30-2007, 16:45
I'll be honest here... If I got upset every time someone asked a newbie question in my shop - we would have closed the doors 2 weeks after opening. So if those questions pop up - I'll always try to chime in if I see it and no one else has given an answer.

If anyone does want to say "go search", please keep in mind that these folks are probably not only new to scuba - there is a strong change they are new to forums as well. So if someone is asking about a zeagle brigade, I might answer,

I know it's my favorite. I love the weight system and the modular capability. In fact, there were several discussion on the Zeagle BC recently. By using the search function above for "Zeagle Brigade" I found these that might be worth a read:

http://forum.scubatoys.com/showthread.php?t=2235&highlight=zeagle+brigade

http://forum.scubatoys.com/showthread.php?t=1591&highlight=zeagle+brigade

Of course I realize I'm trying to make friends here... it's my livelihood to have people respect and trust my opinions... so I can't expect everyone to take the time to do that - but when someone does run into a few threads that way, whether they have asked or not - they may get the idea of how to properly use the search function and find answers before they ask redundant questions.

Everyone has done a great job of making the new folks comfortable here, and I thank you for that and hope we can keep it up.

thor
08-30-2007, 16:56
And that's why Larry gets paid the big bucks. You are an officer and a gentleman

JCAT
08-30-2007, 17:47
I'm a lurker on SB. I've read threads that are pretty obnoxious by some of the elites over there.

I enjoy this board! More mainstream IMO, with the actual divers who sustain the scuba industry.

Zenagirl
08-30-2007, 20:14
One of those you spoke of was probably me. And as was said earlier, those of us who love our BP/W after diving BC's are usually just more eager to help you love it too. Part of loving it is making sure it fits properly. Did you ever try the crotch strap? :smiley36: Just kidding.

We know that one piece of gear isn't right for everyone. Dive what you like. So far I don't think I have seen anyone saying things like, "you're going to die if keep diving in a BC", or "you're just too stupid to know whats good and what isnt". I have seen variations on those many times on other boards.

So please forgive us our zealotry as long as we are polite about it.

FD

Thanks FD, actually you WERE very polite and I appreciated it. You just reminded me of the rudeness I've encountered in the past when I expressed my opinion about a BP/W.

I'm pretty vocal about my good feelings toward Zeagles in general and my Zena in particular, so I understand being enthusiastic about your gear, but I do try hard to be polite and not sound like it's the "best" or "only" women's BC or BC brand. You've done the same thing and I appreciate it and hope that it continues that way on this board.

Scuba-Bill
08-30-2007, 20:36
I see the same thing on SB. I just wade through the cr@p to get to the information I need. The @sses are a minority, but very active in posting.

I will use both boards to satisfy my SCUBA info needs.

Good luck!

foo
08-30-2007, 21:03
If I've ever had an issue with someone on SB, I just tell them to stick it, and I feel much better. I highly recommend it.

BTW, I love SB and have lots of great friends there, but I also think this new ST forum is wonderful, and I'm happy to be here also. I'm like Scuba-Bill... I will continue to go to both forums. The Swampdivers forum is filled with great people that will not treat you badly, give it a try, and be honorary Texans!

Splitlip
08-30-2007, 21:18
Arguing with some people is like wrestling with a pig.

frankc420
08-30-2007, 22:40
Beh. I guess my opinions don't count because I'm not the industry standard 'experienced' diver. Whatever, this is officially a SB thread.

I'm moving on...

Divegirl
08-30-2007, 22:47
Hey, let it go, some people just aren't happy. Don't let it bring you down to their level,
We are all here to learn, ask questions, and share our knowledge. Maybe you were not wrong, you just had a different way of doing it. Many of us do it differently with the same outcome, and if that works go with it.

Charlotte Smith
08-31-2007, 07:07
I second that divegirl!

Firebrand
08-31-2007, 20:15
SB is a scarry place. You never know who the hell is giving you "expert" advice. Add the fact that it is run by the holy informed, and thier minions, and everyone else is talked down to. And it's a real ball to visit. Just remember to leave your balls and your opinions at the door!

Suther2136
08-31-2007, 21:54
Life is risky, move past the snots and enjoy the real people.

in_cavediver
09-01-2007, 12:26
SB is a scarry place. You never know who the hell is giving you "expert" advice. Add the fact that it is run by the holy informed, and thier minions, and everyone else is talked down to. And it's a real ball to visit. Just remember to leave your balls and your opinions at the door!

The problem is that this problem exists everywhere, at least the who's and expert. Jerks, well, there everywhere to.

Now, to spice the thread up - Where's your Spare Air and Air2 octo?

Splitlip
09-01-2007, 16:45
SB is a scarry place. You never know who the hell is giving you "expert" advice. Add the fact that it is run by the holy informed, and thier minions, and everyone else is talked down to. And it's a real ball to visit. Just remember to leave your balls and your opinions at the door!

The problem is that this problem exists everywhere, at least the who's and expert. Jerks, well, there everywhere to.


As the base of users grows here we will see that too.

(Is Lafayette still making Indiana proud? Hale, Hale and Go Boilers)

El Orans
09-01-2007, 16:54
Boy, this flame retardant suit is really hot. :-)


I was informed it was "policy" for scubaboard to retain all user account information forever if you ever post there.Not completely correct...

You're free to remove all personal info from your profile. If you want, we can even change your user name to remove all traces to you. However, removing the entire account (and all related posts) would mess with all threads where you and lots of other users participated in.

For the record, I'm a ScubaBoard Administrator...

WV Diver
09-01-2007, 16:58
Hey El, good to see you made it over here to see what's going on.

H2O Skier
09-01-2007, 17:24
SB is a scarry place. You never know who the hell is giving you "expert" advice. Add the fact that it is run by the holy informed, and thier minions, and everyone else is talked down to. And it's a real ball to visit. Just remember to leave your balls and your opinions at the door!

The problem is that this problem exists everywhere, at least the who's and expert. Jerks, well, there everywhere to.


As the base of users grows here we will see that too.

(Is Lafayette still making Indiana proud? Hale, Hale and Go Boilers)

Nice to see some Boilers around here. I'm an alum and transplant to South Florida from the area. Boiler Up!

RonFrank
09-04-2007, 13:31
Again guys... if anything like that ever happens here... let me know and I'll take care of it... quickly!

Have fun with that Larry! As a SB Mod, I can tell you it's VERY difficult to moderate 80,000 members! :smilie40: Impossible if they are attacking others via PM as they are... ummm private! :smiley29:

RonFrank
09-04-2007, 13:39
Ironically MOST of the people here I see are from SB. :smilie40:

I think I will like this forum better when folks are not racing to hit a 250 post mark. I see people here that have 100 posts on SB in 6 months, they've been here for a month, and have 300.... But quantity is NOT quality! :smiley2: Maybe this will develop into more of a chat forum. But having choices is never a bad thing, and the ST forum offers a new choice in Scuba online communities.

awap
09-04-2007, 15:13
Ironically MOST of the people here I see are from SB. :smilie40:

I think I will like this forum better when folks are not racing to hit a 250 post mark. I see people here that have 100 posts on SB in 6 months, they've been here for a month, and have 300.... But quantity is NOT quality! :smiley2: Maybe this will develop into more of a chat forum. But having choices is never a bad thing, and the ST forum offers a new choice in Scuba online communities.

I was hoping H2Andy would show up so the race could really begin.

And we have not lost any threads. I'm not sure whether the difference is members or management.

ReefHound
09-04-2007, 15:18
I was hoping H2Andy would show up so the race could really begin.

What race? 250 posts? That's a slow Tuesday afternoon for Andy.

greyzen
09-04-2007, 15:24
Boy, this flame retardant suit is really hot. :-)


I was informed it was "policy" for scubaboard to retain all user account information forever if you ever post there.Not completely correct...

You're free to remove all personal info from your profile. If you want, we can even change your user name to remove all traces to you. However, removing the entire account (and all related posts) would mess with all threads where you and lots of other users participated in.

For the record, I'm a ScubaBoard Administrator...


K, I was told, and have the email, of a ScubaBoard Administrator telling me that it was their policy. This was after I was informed it was my fault that my wife auto completed the wrong email address into the forum.

Perhaps I spoke with the wrong admin :/

ScubaToys Larry
09-04-2007, 15:27
Again guys... if anything like that ever happens here... let me know and I'll take care of it... quickly!

Have fun with that Larry! As a SB Mod, I can tell you it's VERY difficult to moderate 80,000 members! :smilie40: Impossible if they are attacking others via PM as they are... ummm private! :smiley29:

I'm sure if you go in and check, the 80,000 is more like 5000 active. Based on the number of posts and threads, and when I check it against out numbers, it seems we are running approx 12% of SB activity at this point... and I would assume that there would be a statistical similarity between active members and posts. I'm sure it will get more interesting if say in another month or so, we get to 25%... that many more posts and members could make it more interesting...

So far we've only had a few situations where things were starting to get out of hand, and be letting people know the rules up front, we are able to cut it off pretty quick. And when people see activity they think is not suitable for this board - they let us know.

Hopefully we can maintain the feeling we have over here. A lot of people told me when ScubaToys grows large, we will not have the down home customer service feeling in our shop - and luckily, we've been able to keep that as well. Time will tell! But we'll keep trying!

fire diver
09-04-2007, 16:12
Again guys... if anything like that ever happens here... let me know and I'll take care of it... quickly!

Have fun with that Larry! As a SB Mod, I can tell you it's VERY difficult to moderate 80,000 members! :smilie40: Impossible if they are attacking others via PM as they are... ummm private! :smiley29:

Glad to see you made it here RonFrank!

I don't think it will be the problem you perceive it to become. The answer is in banning offending members. Not scold them, not tell them to play nice, ban them. We as a community here have trouble telling offensive persons that sch behaviour is not welcome. If they persist, Larry comes in and caps 'em in the knees. :anim_frag:

Honestly, it's happened once already. And PM's can be disclosed to mods/gurus.

FD

El Orans
09-04-2007, 17:44
Perhaps I spoke with the wrong admin :/Nope, same one.

It still is our policy not to remove accounts once they have posted.

However, you're free to change your profile. That's up to you.

ianr33
09-04-2007, 17:52
I don't think it will be the problem you perceive it to become. The answer is in banning offending members. Not scold them, not tell them to play nice, ban them. We as a community here have trouble telling offensive persons that sch behaviour is not welcome. If they persist, Larry comes in and caps 'em in the knees. :anim_frag:

Honestly, it's happened once already. And PM's can be disclosed to mods/gurus.

FD

Thats one of the things I like about TheDecoStop. If someone is being a jerk they just get banned. End of problem. If you dont like that policy go somewhere else.

Scubaboard seems to bend over backwards to be politically correct and ends up annoying everybody.

Bill22
09-04-2007, 18:32
Did the whole dog thing and got out because of that. My parents do it, and love it. It's pretty cool for them. as a side note I am watching my parents 3 week old puppies and William Wegman just called (he makes the calendars of the weimaraners) the house. I didn't answer because I didn't know what to say. So I guess there is good in it for them. But I digress. Everyone here is very nice and I want to dive with all of you at least once! or at least try.

COOL!!! I'll be in the Philippines next month... I should decide by next week which of the gazillion great dive spots there I want to visit this trip... come on it'll be fun :-)

thesmoothdome
09-04-2007, 18:38
Ironically MOST of the people here I see are from SB. :smilie40:

I think I will like this forum better when folks are not racing to hit a 250 post mark. I see people here that have 100 posts on SB in 6 months, they've been here for a month, and have 300.... But quantity is NOT quality! :smiley2: Maybe this will develop into more of a chat forum. But having choices is never a bad thing, and the ST forum offers a new choice in Scuba online communities.

Ron,

Yeah, I started at SB and was frankly disgusted at holier than thou, mean spirited, internet heros that permeate that board. ST's has a nice, friendly feel to it. No one is slamming anyone. We can disagree without resulting to the insulting diatribes that seem so frequent on your board.

Now, you come over here and the nicest thing you say is "having choices is never a bad thing." This comes at the end of 2 posts where you say that you can't control the HUGE numbers of posters you have and that you'll like this place better when people stop racing for 250, pointing out that quantity is not quality. Have you read through all the posts? Have you thought about why someone like me, a former instructor certified in 1990, chose not to post on SB, but rather on ST? It's not a race to 250, it's simply because the people on this board made me feel welcome, like I try to do with new people when they join.

The fact is, as this place grows, it will become more of a challenge to keep the homey feel we've developed, but it's our choice as a community. You at SB made your choice, and because of it, many of us jumped at the chance to get involved with ST. Sure, you can say that I'm a member at SB, but the truth is I'm not. You can pad your numbers with my name, but as Larry mentioned, you're 80,000 created accounts does not remotely reflect the number of active accounts. Just throwing numbers like that out in our forum shows the inferiority complex you at SB seem to be suffering from since ST opened for business.

I also take issue with referring to this place as a "chat forum," devaluing the information that the members here have shared in appropriate ways. Meanwhile, SB has a 21 page thread basially ripping a guy for asking where to get PADI patches and where to wear them. Now that's real informative, helpful and uplifting. Don't you ever wonder why the poster only has 7 posts on SB?

In closing Ron, enjoy your board. Enjoy our board. Just be nice when you're in our house. Many of us who left SB left because people didn't play nice and we definately expect things to be different here.

Zenagirl
09-04-2007, 19:05
I hope that those of us who want this board to stay friendly will make sure it stays that way through our own actions and words. I know that I plan to do so.

mm_dm
09-04-2007, 19:11
Smooth and Ianr33, I couldn't agree with you more. I stopped posting on SB about 9 or 10 months ago for exactly the reasons you stated. I don't miss the cold hearted elitists of that board at all.

creggur
09-04-2007, 19:35
What really sucks is that there are some nice folks over there. Even in my short tenure there I had the opportunity to meet and dive with some of them and they were great...

Kind of hope those folks find their way over here. This is a much nicer place to hang out.

ReefHound
09-04-2007, 20:04
You tend to find the nicer folks in the regional forums, the general discussion forums are where you have most of the pi$$ing contests.

creggur
09-04-2007, 21:11
You tend to find the nicer folks in the regional forums, the general discussion forums are where you have most of the pi$$ing contests.
100% agree. It's nice to be able to post in the general discussion forums here without all of that though.

TommyB
09-04-2007, 21:45
SB is a scarry place. You never know who the hell is giving you "expert" advice. Add the fact that it is run by the holy informed, and thier minions, and everyone else is talked down to. And it's a real ball to visit. Just remember to leave your balls and your opinions at the door!

The problem is that this problem exists everywhere, at least the who's and expert. Jerks, well, there everywhere to.


As the base of users grows here we will see that too.
....

Not if it get's reported to me or Larry.
So far, any of those issues has been pretty much handled very quickly.

Quick PM / report post and it's taken care of.
500 or 80000 members, it's all on how the tone of the forums are set.

Jaymeany
09-04-2007, 21:49
Couldn't agree more!!!

creggur
09-04-2007, 21:53
Not if it get's reported to me or Larry.
So far, any of those issues has been pretty much handled very quickly.

Quick PM / report post and it's taken care of.
500 or 80000 members, it's all on how the tone of the forums are set.

You guys are doing a great job with this thing so far. I like the tone here, and there have been some spirited debates, but nothing that's gotten way out of hand. I see no reason why this can't continue, like you said it's all about how the tone is set..

Charlotte Smith
09-04-2007, 21:56
So far...I think we have a great bunch of divers on here.....everyone will disagree at some point......

torrey
09-04-2007, 22:13
I think a lot of the difference between the two boards is that on SB, people go there because they enjoy diving. People who are here enjoy diving and Scubatoys. There is more of a central theme, kind of like a dive resort rather than just throwing a bunch of people into one huge ocean.

RonFrank
09-04-2007, 22:16
In closing Ron, enjoy your board. Enjoy our board. Just be nice when you're in our house. Many of us who left SB left because people didn't play nice and we definately expect things to be different here.

You sure seem to read a lot into what I said?

SB is not my board? ST is not YOUR board, or your house? It's a community forum made up of members, and I'm certainly one of them.

There is nothing wrong with a board that is more chatty than SB. But I have found that people here were so trying to hit the 250 posts that they started threads about running out of things to post on? :smiley2:

SB is big, and difficult to moderate. If ST becomes large they will run into, and face the same challenges that any large site must deal with. Regardless of how some members would like things to be, forums change as membership grows.

I have a lot of experience with this, so take it for what it is worth.

Travelnsj
09-04-2007, 22:56
I enjoy both boards. SB is a great resource for Travel info and I enjoy exchanging info with other like divers….and goof around in the (sometimes silly) singles area now and then….I also enjoy a smaller board like ScubaToys as you get to know people better….I have learned things on both boards…what does concern me a bit as RonFrank touched on....some people may here to hit the 250 mark!

thesmoothdome
09-04-2007, 22:57
In closing Ron, enjoy your board. Enjoy our board. Just be nice when you're in our house. Many of us who left SB left because people didn't play nice and we definately expect things to be different here.

You sure seem to read a lot into what I said?

SB is not my board? ST is not YOUR board, or your house? It's a community forum made up of members, and I'm certainly one of them.

There is nothing wrong with a board that is more chatty than SB. But I have found that people here were so trying to hit the 250 posts that they started threads about running out of things to post on? :smiley2:

SB is big, and difficult to moderate. If ST becomes large they will run into, and face the same challenges that any large site must deal with. Regardless of how some members would like things to be, forums change as membership grows.

I have a lot of experience with this, so take it for what it is worth.

Ron,

It wasn't that hard to read into what you were saying. It was in plain English and I'm sorry if you didn't mean to come across so negative, but it was not hard to see the subtle jabs you took.

I'm sure you're right. Moderating a large board must be difficult. Funny thing is, my job is difficult as well, yet I bust my butt to do the best job I can rather than remind people how difficult my job is. Frankly, no one cares how difficult my job is. They just expect it to be done and done in way that makes their lives easier. I expect that Larry and staff, with the ST community's help, will do their best to maintain the feel that we've created here. If they can't and it turns into something else, I'm sure my interest here would peter out, like it did on SB.

As for it being "our board" rather than just a ST forum, I think that's the point. A lot of us take ownership in this place. Because of that, we do our best to keep the flavor of the place very different than those who take ownership over at SB. That's a choice we made, and Larry has encouraged by being open to listening to our concerns and asking us to help him keep this place friendly. I really believe that while some nastiness is bound to happen, it won't last very long because we as a community won't tolerate it. We want to encourage people to enjoy diving, not tout our expertise for others to be in awe or put people down for having different values. If Larry is to succeed in this endevor, it is "our board," yours, mine, Foo2's, Larry's, creggur's, etc.

Charlotte Smith
09-04-2007, 23:00
In closing Ron, enjoy your board. Enjoy our board. Just be nice when you're in our house. Many of us who left SB left because people didn't play nice and we definately expect things to be different here.

You sure seem to read a lot into what I said?

SB is not my board? ST is not YOUR board, or your house? It's a community forum made up of members, and I'm certainly one of them.

There is nothing wrong with a board that is more chatty than SB. But I have found that people here were so trying to hit the 250 posts that they started threads about running out of things to post on? :smiley2:

SB is big, and difficult to moderate. If ST becomes large they will run into, and face the same challenges that any large site must deal with. Regardless of how some members would like things to be, forums change as membership grows.

I have a lot of experience with this, so take it for what it is worth.

Ron,

It wasn't that hard to read into what you were saying. It was in plain English and I'm sorry if you didn't mean to come across so negative, but it was not hard to see the subtle jabs you took.

I'm sure you're right. Moderating a large board must be difficult. Funny thing is, my job is difficult as well, yet I bust my butt to do the best job I can rather than remind people how difficult my job is. Frankly, no one cares how difficult my job is. They just expect it to be done and done in way that makes their lives easier. I expect that Larry and staff, with the ST community's help, will do their best to maintain the feel that we've created here. If they can't and it turns into something else, I'm sure my interest here would peter out, like it did on SB.

As for it being "our board" rather than just a ST forum, I think that's the point. A lot of us take ownership in this place. Because of that, we do our best to keep the flavor of the place very different than those who take ownership over at SB. That's a choice we made, and Larry has encouraged by being open to listening to our concerns and asking us to help him keep this place friendly. I really believe that while some nastiness is bound to happen, it won't last very long because we as a community won't tolerate it. We want to encourage people to enjoy diving, not tout our expertise for others to be in awe or put people down for having different values. If Larry is to succeed in this endevor, it is "our board," yours, mine, Foo2's, Larry's, creggur's, etc.

Well Put.....

RonFrank
09-04-2007, 23:14
For a group that is telling everyone how nice they are, and how great this place is, you sure seem very defensive, and certainly want to take a jab at me for posting my OPINION! :smiley36:

The very Subject of this thread is rather negative, as are many of the responses. RU all so sure you are so different?

Being a Mod on a board is not my JOB we are volunteers. However one gains experience when having to deal with so many different types of folks. Throw in a global community, and that adds some difficulty and challenges.

We all have different posting styles. Mine maybe more direct and less PC than others would like. You can ignore or deny what I have said, but the fact remains that as forums grow, the become more difficult to manage.

Debate and conflict is also human nature, and one thing that makes life interesting. If everyone is just sitting around patting each other on the back, well that gets tiresome after a time.

Formerly 45yroldNewbie
09-04-2007, 23:34
Ironically MOST of the people here I see are from SB. :smilie40:

I think I will like this forum better when folks are not racing to hit a 250 post mark. I see people here that have 100 posts on SB in 6 months, they've been here for a month, and have 300.... But quantity is NOT quality! :smiley2: Maybe this will develop into more of a chat forum. But having choices is never a bad thing, and the ST forum offers a new choice in Scuba online communities.

Ron,

Yeah, I started at SB and was frankly disgusted at holier than thou, mean spirited, internet heros that permeate that board. ST's has a nice, friendly feel to it. No one is slamming anyone. We can disagree without resulting to the insulting diatribes that seem so frequent on your board.

Now, you come over here and the nicest thing you say is "having choices is never a bad thing." This comes at the end of 2 posts where you say that you can't control the HUGE numbers of posters you have and that you'll like this place better when people stop racing for 250, pointing out that quantity is not quality. Have you read through all the posts? Have you thought about why someone like me, a former instructor certified in 1990, chose not to post on SB, but rather on ST? It's not a race to 250, it's simply because the people on this board made me feel welcome, like I try to do with new people when they join.

The fact is, as this place grows, it will become more of a challenge to keep the homey feel we've developed, but it's our choice as a community. You at SB made your choice, and because of it, many of us jumped at the chance to get involved with ST. Sure, you can say that I'm a member at SB, but the truth is I'm not. You can pad your numbers with my name, but as Larry mentioned, you're 80,000 created accounts does not remotely reflect the number of active accounts. Just throwing numbers like that out in our forum shows the inferiority complex you at SB seem to be suffering from since ST opened for business.

I also take issue with referring to this place as a "chat forum," devaluing the information that the members here have shared in appropriate ways. Meanwhile, SB has a 21 page thread basially ripping a guy for asking where to get PADI patches and where to wear them. Now that's real informative, helpful and uplifting. Don't you ever wonder why the poster only has 7 posts on SB?

In closing Ron, enjoy your board. Enjoy our board. Just be nice when you're in our house. Many of us who left SB left because people didn't play nice and we definately expect things to be different here.

Ron,

What he said. You can look up my handle on your board and then if you and the other Mods can re-read my final post over there ( you know the one that was deleted or "moved to the back room") and can see why we don't want the SB BS over here!!! Everyone is welcome to visit but it is a privilidge to stay; as far as I'm concerned.

texarkandy
09-05-2007, 07:20
One good thing about ScubaBoard for me - it helped me find ScubaToys!! :)

fire diver
09-05-2007, 08:00
For a group that is telling everyone how nice they are, and how great this place is, you sure seem very defensive, and certainly want to take a jab at me for posting my OPINION! :smiley36:

The very Subject of this thread is rather negative, as are many of the responses. RU all so sure you are so different?

Being a Mod on a board is not my JOB we are volunteers. However one gains experience when having to deal with so many different types of folks. Throw in a global community, and that adds some difficulty and challenges.

We all have different posting styles. Mine maybe more direct and less PC than others would like. You can ignore or deny what I have said, but the fact remains that as forums grow, the become more difficult to manage.

Debate and conflict is also human nature, and one thing that makes life interesting. If everyone is just sitting around patting each other on the back, well that gets tiresome after a time.

Ron, we try very hard here to keep this place comfortable and friendly. I don't know if the mood will change over time or not. But I do have to ask, why are YOU here? I see you making a lot of posts about how bad this forum will become. Are you here to be a constructive member willing to try to keep it the way it is, or are you just waiting in the wings for another jerk to start some fight so you can start screaming "I told you so!!!"?

divingmedic
09-05-2007, 08:44
I knew about this forum for a couple of months now, but finally decided to make the leap. And boy I am so glad I did.But I do have to give SB credit for helping me find this forum and a local forum. I have already found some really great people on the local one. I look forward to being a part of this one. Good to see you and meet you reefhound.

creggur
09-05-2007, 10:45
Ironically MOST of the people here I see are from SB. :smilie40:

I think I will like this forum better when folks are not racing to hit a 250 post mark. I see people here that have 100 posts on SB in 6 months, they've been here for a month, and have 300.... But quantity is NOT quality! :smiley2: Maybe this will develop into more of a chat forum. But having choices is never a bad thing, and the ST forum offers a new choice in Scuba online communities.

While SB is a great place to do a search for information, as a newbie that's about what you are limited to. If you post a question invariably you are "attacked" for not using the search function. I posted there for a short period of time, until posting some pics of my wife and I during one of our checkout dives. I was just excited about getting certified, and it turned into a 3 page blasting of our techniques, comfort in the water, and our instructors competence etc....Just from a couple of snapshots of us after just getting in the water and practicing some skills. Didn't even know the DM was taking pictures from behind our instructor at the time..Now I'm not thin-skinned but it really takes the fun out of the forum experience when that kind of thing happens.

As far as the quality of posts go, there are quite a few experienced divers here like smoothdome, deepdiver47,Kraken, Larry, Joe, etc... that are happy to share their experiences without condescension or elitism so newer divers aren't afraid to ask a question without it turning into a flame-fest..

I still visit the regional forums, and have met some nice folks from there. I would pop in and check the Zeagle forum as well to see if anything is new there, but that's not necessary anymore since Scott is over here now.

ScottZeagle
09-05-2007, 12:36
If you guys would all just get a backplate and wing setup, everything would be fine...

;)

Seriously though, is there such a thing as too many scuba forums?? I often see the same questions posted here as on ScubaBoard, so they are getting twice the amount of views and potential answers....even if they are sometimes by the same people.

Let's quote Rodney King here...."Can't we all just get along???"

AggieDad
09-05-2007, 12:52
Scott
Your a bad boy. You forgot to bow to the DIR god, The Seven Foot hose etc. :smiley19:



If you guys would all just get a backplate and wing setup, everything would be fine...

;)

Seriously though, is there such a thing as too many scuba forums?? I often see the same questions posted here as on ScubaBoard, so they are getting twice the amount of views and potential answers....even if they are sometimes by the same people.

Let's quote Rodney King here...."Can't we all just get along???"

thor
09-05-2007, 13:56
For a group that is telling everyone how nice they are, and how great this place is, you sure seem very defensive, and certainly want to take a jab at me for posting my OPINION! :smiley36:

The very Subject of this thread is rather negative, as are many of the responses. RU all so sure you are so different?

Being a Mod on a board is not my JOB we are volunteers. However one gains experience when having to deal with so many different types of folks. Throw in a global community, and that adds some difficulty and challenges.

We all have different posting styles. Mine maybe more direct and less PC than others would like. You can ignore or deny what I have said, but the fact remains that as forums grow, the become more difficult to manage.

Debate and conflict is also human nature, and one thing that makes life interesting. If everyone is just sitting around patting each other on the back, well that gets tiresome after a time.



OK. Let's take a time out. Ron, your points are well taken, and I think everyone here would agree that we are not trying to censure your opinions, and we certainly welcome other views.

Having said that, I agree with everything that Smoothdome and others are saying. It's not what your saying, but the tone of what you are saying. (Granted it is hard to tell tone from an e-mail). Many of us use both SB and ST; myself included. However, I think the main difference between the two boards, is that people have more respect for one another on this board. Just look at some of the same questions posted on both boards and you will see the difference in the quality of the responses. Of course this is a generalization. However, it does not matter what the posts are, or whom is posting them. It does not matter that some people choose to post 30 posts a day here versus, 10 on SB. It does not matter why people are motivated to post here.

What does matter is that this board seems to welcome people in a way that SB has forgotten. And we do welcome you and your opinions to the Board. However, it is always better to be respectful to your hosts, rather than to comment that their house is superficial. I too also resented how you seem to indicate that we are all just here to "chat" and things will change once we have the numbers that SB has. I disagree, and I hope that I am correct. This is indeed a forum, which is open to all ideas, however what I find is that more people are willing to exclude at SB Board, based on a diver's experience, and knowledge, than this board. Respect is what is paramount here. And that makes all of the difference.

I started this thread, because someone PM'ed me, basically telling me that I should never try to identify a fish again, and that I should leave such things to the experts. A personal attack over a fish? How ridiculous is that.

I also noticed that when I recently attempted to turn a hostile thread better (45yr old newbie's thread) , to see if there were any decent people left at SB, the thread was removed. Essentially people on SB were able to see and particpate in insulting someone for wanting to leave SB, but nobody was able to voice there outrage to the whole ordeal. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy SB, and a lot of the people, and I enjoy some of the ribbing that goes on over there; but not everyone does. And not all of the time. I enjoy participating in the ribbing sometimes, but I hope I know when it is becoming too personal. And when it does, I stop. Soemtimes, it is like blood and sharks over there. (I hope the fish experts don't see this analogy)

Let's all hope that this site retains its level of respect for one another. I'm sure your comments were meant to wish this site the best of luck rather than to hope that we befall the same pitfalls that has troubled SB.

Thor aka The Mighty Thor

greyzen
09-05-2007, 14:26
Well in regards to me going in and changing my profile, I have to laugh at you openly.

My wife goes to scubaboard instead of scubatoys and registers accidentally using the wrong email address.
I find out because I get the typical email validation thing asking me to complete my registration.
I email back and say "I don't WANT to register"
I'm insulted y the moderator asking me why I would register when I don't want to register.
I ask why I am unable to tell the site "Hey I don't want to register, it wasn't me who registered to your site".
I'm basically told "Tough, we have your email address now... it's your fault."

I stopped posting on your site because I would very much like to see your site close down. I only support things I agree with...padding numbers and insulting customers is not something I've ever really agreed with.

Bill22
09-05-2007, 14:45
I've been meaning to ask.... what is this "scubaboard" that everyone seems to know about (and have very strong opinions about ;-)) ????

greyzen
09-05-2007, 14:50
I've been meaning to ask.... what is this "scubaboard" that everyone seems to know about (and have very strong opinions about ;-)) ????

don't worry about it.. they are an old forum who have a tendency to pad their user counts for advertising pennies, and have quite a few long time posters who are a bit more hostile and elite than who you'll find here.

Bill22
09-05-2007, 15:21
I've been meaning to ask.... what is this "scubaboard" that everyone seems to know about (and have very strong opinions about ;-)) ????

don't worry about it.. they are an old forum who have a tendency to pad their user counts for advertising pennies, and have quite a few long time posters who are a bit more hostile and elite than who you'll find here.

ahh... well I probably won't spend much time posting there then... but I was just referred to a thread about a particular dive operation I'm thinking about diving with in the Philippines that is posted there. I'll just stick it in google and see what comes back :-) Thanks for answering my question!

thesmoothdome
09-05-2007, 15:41
Bill,

You can find some good info on SB. They've been around for a long time now and, as a result, have the depth of information that we haven't built yet. Nothing wrong with checking out what's there. If you post, be aware that there are some people who are less than friendly though and they are generally tolerated because it's easier than actually moderating a board.

RonFrank
09-05-2007, 15:59
I've been meaning to ask.... what is this "scubaboard" that everyone seems to know about (and have very strong opinions about ;-)) ????

don't worry about it.. they are an old forum who have a tendency to pad their user counts for advertising pennies, and have quite a few long time posters who are a bit more hostile and elite than who you'll find here.

Nice. Let's provide another perspective. It's the worlds largest diving community with over 80,000 members. I've learned more about diving, and made more dive friends from SB than any single source including the agencies that have instructed me.

I've dove with buddies from CA to Coz to FL, and have made friends in Australia, YAP, the Philippians, Hawaii, and around the world. I've honestly never used a BAD dive Op, or had a Bad buddy when I have hooked up with them using Scubaboard.

It's so useless that Larry and Joe currently advertised with them, and have for years. They both continue to participate in threads on that forum as do many if no most of the vendors manufacturing and selling dive gear.

I am not the poster boy for SB. However I find it rather annoying that people are so spineless that they feel the need to go onto a different forum to voice their negative opinions, and rants about another board.

Greyzen seems to have a large chip on his shoulder (as do a few posters on this thread) when it comes to SB. Take his statements with a grain of salt.

RonFrank
09-05-2007, 16:06
Bill,

You can find some good info on SB. They've been around for a long time now and, as a result, have the depth of information that we haven't built yet. Nothing wrong with checking out what's there. If you post, be aware that there are some people who are less than friendly though and they are generally tolerated because it's easier than actually moderating a board.

SmoothDome,

Read post #1 on this thread, and tell me what you would do to moderate THAT? Seriously, rather than taking shots, provide something constructive.

I also must wonder if Thor *reported* the post that insulted him? :smilie40:

Travelnsj
09-05-2007, 16:18
I have also have had postive experiences on SB....I met up with a group of SB'ers in FL in July including Pete the owner. They were all great people. I am sure there are threads where you come across...know it all asses.

I had that happen on Zen where this instructor could not understand how someone could break a Nixrox analyzer on a boat in Palau and why they did not have 5 backups on the boat...he flamed me for adjusting my nitrox setting to what the other tanks were and what was printed on the tank ....He was an instructor with 800 some dives 90% were with the dive op he worked for in FL and the Remote areas he had been too was Belize and Cozumel....let that speak for itself...I'm sure Ron thought I was an ass last week when I was correcting a member on SB who runs another board and dive trips.....and to most people I was an ass...but I had not posted some of the shoddy business practices she does....and I will when the opportunity presents itself....all forums and threads have different people, ideas and their asses....it generally is not indictive of the board.

BSea
09-05-2007, 16:38
WOW, I've kind of ignored this thread for awhile because I didn't really see what could be interesting about what goes on over there. But this has gotten kind of spicy:stiii:.

So, I'll give my 2 cents worth.:director:

As far as people posting more to get to the 250 mark. It has definetly happened. So what. It's not like every board out there has nothing but deep meaningful threads and post. The offer for the GF was a form of advertising, and last time I checked most companies (Including other scuba forums) do this too. Do I have more post than I do over at SB. Yes, but my post from 251 to the present came much faster than my post on other boards. I've gotten into the habit of posting, so I've continued. Plus I like what I read, and how people treat each other on this board.

As far as calling this a chat area. What is any forum if not just that? (BTW, I do like the built in chat feature).

As to the idea that this board will be like all the other boards out there, well time will tell. But there is a difference between just about everyboard regardless of size. I've seen small boards that are much more hostile than SB, so there doesn't seem to be a true correlation between number of users, and attitude of users.

fire diver
09-05-2007, 16:44
I am not the poster boy for SB. However I find it rather annoying that people are so spineless that they feel the need to go onto a different forum to voice their negative opinions, and rants about another board.

Greyzen seems to have a large chip on his shoulder (as do a few posters on this thread) when it comes to SB. Take his statements with a grain of salt.

If you are not the "poster boy", why do you act as it's spokeman? Why do you think we are here? Are we here because we PREFER SB, and like being there more? Or are we here because we like THIS board more?

We are free to express dissatisfaction with others. The fact remains that SB does nothing to control or remove trolls. Many of us have just gotten tired of the very vocal minority. I used to love SB. By the time ST started this forum I was getting burned out and very deffensive and fed-up when ever I posted onSB.

No one here has attacked you, so why do you persist in claiming this board doesn't have the caliber of members, and that we have chips on our shoulders?

I also noticed that you failed to reply to MY post. Are you here to be a constructive member?

FD

El Orans
09-05-2007, 17:09
Well in regards to me going in and changing my profile, I have to laugh at you openly.

My wife goes to scubaboard instead of scubatoys and registers accidentally using the wrong email address.
I find out because I get the typical email validation thing asking me to complete my registration.
I email back and say "I don't WANT to register"
I'm insulted y the moderator asking me why I would register when I don't want to register.
I ask why I am unable to tell the site "Hey I don't want to register, it wasn't me who registered to your site".
I'm basically told "Tough, we have your email address now... it's your fault."
The account (including your email address) you mention here was removed from our database on 08/25. We do not retain information about our former users.


I've been meaning to ask.... what is this "scubaboard" that everyone seems to know about (and have very strong opinions about ;-)) ????http://www.scubaboard.com/forums.php.
You're welcome to visit... :smiley1:

thor
09-05-2007, 17:12
I am not the poster boy for SB. However I find it rather annoying that people are so spineless that they feel the need to go onto a different forum to voice their negative opinions, and rants about another board.

Greyzen seems to have a large chip on his shoulder (as do a few posters on this thread) when it comes to SB. Take his statements with a grain of salt.




SmoothDome,

Read post #1 on this thread, and tell me what you would do to moderate THAT? Seriously, rather than taking shots, provide something constructive.

I also must wonder if Thor *reported* the post that insulted him? :smilie40:



Hostile. So Hostile. Why are you making a personal attack on Greyzen? Why are you now coming after me? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a moderator supposed to help a discussion stay productive. This is exactly what this post is talking about; unnecessary hostility.

What pot shots were made? I believe I started the thread by stating that SB is a great resource.

Moderate the thread/Report the insult? There was no need to moderate the thread b/c this had to do with the exchange of personal messages, which I responded to. There was nothing wrong with the thread. I communicated directly with this person. Mano a mano. They chose to PM me for a reason. I respected their wish to keep it private. I did not choose to embarass this person, but chose to vent on another board, to avoid humiliating a particular board member and to avoid unconstructive discussion. I'm sure that they were trying to do the same, by PMing me in the first place. What would a moderator have done? Nothing. Or would you rather I called this person out publicly. What would that have solved? Nothing.


Spineless? Well let's see. Let's get the facts straight. The first time I tried to report the behavior that went on at SB, one of your esteemed colleagues deleted the thread.

Then, I started a new thread:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=200297

I received this PM:



You are not crazy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, Thor I deleted the thread. It had served only to insight hard and negative comments. Only a few, like you were trying to take it in a new, positive direction. Thank you for that but it still needed to be closed.

Your friendly moderator,
Dave
__________________



RonFrank: Let's not talk about potshots or being spineless, at risk that we might come off as hypocritical. You yourself even responded to my thread on SB.

Are you posting on this board to defend yourself or are you posting to attack us? There is a difference. That difference is exactly the point that I was trying to make with post #1.

I think that people are just frustrated with some of the elitism and disrespect that is present at SB. Nobody is attackin you. In fact we welcome you, as long as you show us respect and courtesy. We are all a part of the same community. You, me, SB people, the new members who haven't even joined yet. Can't we all just get along.

awap
09-05-2007, 17:32
However I find it rather annoying that people are so spineless that they feel the need to go onto a different forum to voice their negative opinions, and rants about another board.


Postings of negative things about scubaboard on scubaboard are subject to be sent to scubaboards Guantanimo Bay (the back room). Any excuse will do although normally none is given as management controls all the evidence. What did haoppen to 45yearoldnewbie's thread? The couple of "asses" could easily have been censored. Like 90% of the posts on SB (and many other such boards - TDS being an exception) it was really not a major loss of useful information. But it also was not more objectional then much of what gets left after "MOD" reviews. The point is, I object to the diasppearance of posts and entire thread with absolutely no accounting to the customers (members) of the board. It is your board (owners/managers) and you can do what you want. But I'm not sure why you would want to unnecessarily create dissatisfied members.

texarkandy
09-05-2007, 18:32
As a noob who has been flamed before on ScubaBoard (I got over it, thank you, and have a couple folks on "ignore" already) & thought about this a little bit, I'd just like to throw in here for a sec if I may.

I think ST forum is (or should be) a little different "thing" altogether than SB.
I don't think it's purpose is to take the place of, or even compete with, ScubaBoard. ScubaBoard has it's own purposes & usefulness to us all and is much more of a public square.

ST forum is more to me a little more like "a particular" LDS' forum. Imagie yourself sitting in the (very crowded) shop there in Carrollton, TX. You'll note the only "paid" adverts associated with this forum are for ST, unlike ScubaBoard. ( I don't guess they'll be allowing LP to post paid adverts & a link on here anytime soon, much less inside their physical store ??!! :) )

I hope on here it's gonna be more like a bunch of folks sitting around in the (virtual) ScubaToys LDS just talkin' to each other about things scuba & otherwise. Larry, Joe, or staff might even drop into a thread to plug or point-to their latest deal on some particular thread where it might be relevant to the question/conversation - or just give their 2psi about something (just like an LDS owner might do in the shop, and that's appropriate)

I think Larry & Joe are also on much firmer ground to throw anybody out they want to for misbehavior/rudeness like they would in their shop as this is more kind of their turf, rather than the more public square of ScubaBoard. Heck, I suppose they'd even be within their rights to show your avatar the virtual door for passing them a bad check! :)

I also don't see ST forum is intended to be quite as oriented to technical argumentation, analysis, and debate like SB. That doesn't mean there can't be any, but if someone asks a question on here & someone else knows where that question has been analyzed, argued, & debated ad infinitum previously on ScubaBoard (or elsewhere), they just might reply to the poster with a short summary & link to that particular ScubaBoard thread.

Hopefully the current atmosphere of "a bunch of folks sittin' around the LDS just talkin bout this & that" can be maintained. Now this is just my personal perception, Joe & Larry might have slightly (or greatly?) different ideas.

I'll still post on ScubaBoard when I think it's of benefit to me or someone else, but probably spend a lot more time here since I don't have an LDS (other than ST)

drdiver
09-05-2007, 18:38
I find Scubaboard a good resource to look up opinions, but I don't find it a fun board--for all the reasons given above.

Zenagirl
09-05-2007, 18:38
I think most of us who have a history with SB will agree that it's a great resource and has some great people and great things on it. However, a lot of us also feel that there is a vocal minority there who makes it unpleasant to post our opinions or feelings about things, so we're happy to be here where that isn't happening. For me it's as simple as that.

thesmoothdome
09-05-2007, 19:01
Bill,

You can find some good info on SB. They've been around for a long time now and, as a result, have the depth of information that we haven't built yet. Nothing wrong with checking out what's there. If you post, be aware that there are some people who are less than friendly though and they are generally tolerated because it's easier than actually moderating a board.

SmoothDome,

Read post #1 on this thread, and tell me what you would do to moderate THAT? Seriously, rather than taking shots, provide something constructive.

I also must wonder if Thor *reported* the post that insulted him? :smilie40:

Ron,

Since the fish ID thing started as a PM, there's nothing to moderate. I haven't read the thread. Was the public response rude? I don't know. If it was, then a moderator should step in. If it's simply a "hey bro, you made a mistake. It was really a spineless jellyfish" then there would not be an issue.
I can't speak for Thor, but the feeling I got was that the rude tone of the PM is what sent him over the edge.

Rather than talk about that thread, why not discuss my personal favorite. The one where someone asks a simple question and gets barraged by a bunch of you're such a noob responses. Here's a few of the responses. You can figure out what thread I'm talking about. Each of the responses was from one of your respected, experienced posters.

"Get some coveralls and sew patches aLL over it. You will be stared at, not respected. I think they are called "ego jackets."

"Personally, I like for folks who are impressed by patches to wear them proudly where they are easy to see."

"You can meet PADI standards and be a horrible diver. You can be a horrible diver PADI instructor. That's just the truth. I know some instructors who just don't dive anywhere challenging. Point is that patches just don't mean much and truthfully - and I am not trying to be arrogant or mean - you might get some snickers on the dive boat."


Originally Posted by:
Ahhhh, yes.

Master Scuba diver, Experienced Diver. <200 dives in ten yrs.

Yea...I might chuckle.



"I find that the relationship between the number of certification/specialty patches of any agency displayed by a diver and the diving skill of that diver are usually inversely related. For example, I wear absolutely no patches (not even scopalomine) and look at me. Hmm, maybe I am an exception to this rule! Of course I dive solo so no one can really find that out."

Now, you have to remember, the question was simple: Where do you get the patches and where do you wear them? After only 2 pages of this sort of nonsense, the OP responded with:

Wow, I guess I started the equivalent of a "Yo Mama" round of jokes. So, what are you guys trying to say?
Seriously, I get it that the guy who yells the loudest doesn't always know the most. But...I'm in the military, and I collect....you guessed it, patches. Also, I figured if you did put Rescue, or Dive Master, or Instructor somewhere visible, it might give newbies a little more reassurance. But I guess not. Well, thanx for the responses.

The insults continued though as many people proudly exclaimed that only losers and horrible divers wear patches. Sure, nothing by itself was egregious, but I think as a mod, I would have jumped in and reminded people that there's no reason to be insulting and since the OP's question was answered already, and he definately found it offensive, I'd lock the thread.

In addition, if the same posters developed a reputation for consistent negative response, like at least one of the above posters definately has, there would be a PM or two before I asked them to find somewhere else to troll.

Yes, I know. It's all volunteer for the mods and since SB is so large, it might be difficult to catch, but isn't that why SB has mods? Let's also not forget, that while you are volunteering, ad space is being sold, so someone's making a little money, so it's a job for someone and they have chosen to allow the demeaning belittling that takes place there.

georoc01
09-05-2007, 19:20
Wow..this is quite the thread. And it parallels what I have seen in messageboards on the web over time in different areas as well.

Scubaboard is the age old veteran. They have posters who have been over there for years. New blood comes in, learns from them and takes over the posting. The people who have been answering the same questions time after time are frankly bored with it. You need that new blood to take over. Even though they are less experienced and appear as a know it all, the just do a search only lasts so long.

Scubatoys is the newbie on the block. This has been our club since it started and for us, its all new. Yeah, the same posts may have been answered 100 times over on the other board, but here its a new question.

What scubaboard has going for it is a more global set of regional sub forums outside of texas and has a larger community of locals. For us in the Rockies, the Rocky Mountain Oysters is a much better place for me to talk about local diving than posting something here, where when questioned why we are bundled with California, he gets a response wondering why you would live somewhere where the diving is the worst in the country.

And as travelsnj said, for travel info, its worldwide presence makes a big difference. You have Dive Operators like Christi in Cozumel that post over there. It provides better information in those cases.

This is a great board and I love Scubatoys, having bought quite a bit of my equipment there and will continue to do so. But I will support Scubaboard and other diving boards as well. Its good to get some variety.

ianr33
09-05-2007, 20:17
If I have a serious question I will ask it on TheDecoStop.

If I want to get into a fight for fun I go to Scubaboard.

Kind of sad really.Was not always that way.

Bill22
09-06-2007, 04:33
Thanks to everyone who responded... I did find Scuba Board and joined this morning. Made a few posts as I was researching my next Philippines trip as I was able to answer some questions based on my previous trip to the Philippines.

Did see one thread that caught my eye where the poster of the original question was brutally flamed, so I find there is a basis for some of the other comments I've seen here.

Also saw that there were a lot of nice people there and I found some really good information that will be helpful on my next trip.

Thanks again to EVERYONE..... Can we have a group hug now ;-)

Bill22
09-06-2007, 04:39
But...I'm in the military, and I collect....you guessed it, patches..

This is a common hobby in the military by the way. I have a ton of patches I'm intending to put on a jacket someday :-)

creggur
09-06-2007, 06:43
Thanks to everyone who responded... I did find Scuba Board and joined this morning. Made a few posts as I was researching my next Philippines trip as I was able to answer some questions based on my previous trip to the Philippines.

Did see one thread that caught my eye where the poster of the original question was brutally flamed, so I find there is a basis for some of the other comments I've seen here.

Also saw that there were a lot of nice people there and I found some really good information that will be helpful on my next trip.

Thanks again to EVERYONE..... Can we have a group hug now ;-)

Just be sure to post here after your trip to the Philippines so that our depth of information can grow here as well.:smiley20:

As others have said her SB is a great resource for information, and there are some great people over there..It's the overall tone of the board in the general posting areas that cause a lot of people to frequent other boards....

mwhities
09-06-2007, 06:49
I stopped this morning.... since it's down again....

Michael

Bill22
09-06-2007, 07:07
Thanks to everyone who responded... I did find Scuba Board and joined this morning. Made a few posts as I was researching my next Philippines trip as I was able to answer some questions based on my previous trip to the Philippines.

Did see one thread that caught my eye where the poster of the original question was brutally flamed, so I find there is a basis for some of the other comments I've seen here.

Also saw that there were a lot of nice people there and I found some really good information that will be helpful on my next trip.

Thanks again to EVERYONE..... Can we have a group hug now ;-)

Just be sure to post here after your trip to the Philippines so that our depth of information can grow here as well.:smiley20:

As others have said her SB is a great resource for information, and there are some great people over there..It's the overall tone of the board in the general posting areas that cause a lot of people to frequent other boards....

Absolutely! :-) ScubaToys is like home for me. I'm a member of three boards now, but this is where I hang out and this is where I do the most posting. I will post a complete trip report and photos when I get back :-)

greyzen
09-06-2007, 08:41
Greyzen seems to have a large chip on his shoulder (as do a few posters on this thread) when it comes to SB. Take his statements with a grain of salt.


I wouldn't have a chip on my shoulder if you and your "staff" would do what any non-padding forum/website would do. I ask you a simple request and you come back to me with attitude? Where do you get off insulting my wife and myself and forcing me to complete some registration with your organization just so *I* can change my information?

That is likened to a company mailing me a product and when I call up and inform them it was unsolicited and to please take it back, charging me for the item and the shipping to have it returned.

When I joined your scuba online community I did not know that I was getting into Columbia House record company. When I found out, I disassociated myself from your scam.

My approved membership, which posted to SB until I determined your level of authenticity, is sitting idle, but don't worry... you got what you needed out of me... I raised your usercount.

greyzen
09-06-2007, 08:43
Well in regards to me going in and changing my profile, I have to laugh at you openly.

My wife goes to scubaboard instead of scubatoys and registers accidentally using the wrong email address.
I find out because I get the typical email validation thing asking me to complete my registration.
I email back and say "I don't WANT to register"
I'm insulted y the moderator asking me why I would register when I don't want to register.
I ask why I am unable to tell the site "Hey I don't want to register, it wasn't me who registered to your site".
I'm basically told "Tough, we have your email address now... it's your fault."
The account (including your email address) you mention here was removed from our database on 08/25. We do not retain information about our former users.

Congratulations, now if only that had been done before you treated me like a fool for a simple mistake.

Way to do your job.

ScubaToys Larry
09-06-2007, 08:49
Hey guys... there is a fine line of talking about web sites, and companies, and then pointing at individuals. When the individuals are close to the companies, I realize the line is kind of thin, but if we can let this settle down - and not have people attacking one another... it would be great.

So please don't get this into a personal fight... I really have too much to do to go deleting posts today!

It's not an all or nothing, it's not an us or them... we're just scuba divers and some like cold water - some like warm. Some like BC's, some like plates, some like split fins, some like jet fins... some like one forum, some like another. There is no need to make it personal though... OK??

Thanks guys!

fire diver
09-06-2007, 08:50
Well in regards to me going in and changing my profile, I have to laugh at you openly.

My wife goes to scubaboard instead of scubatoys and registers accidentally using the wrong email address.
I find out because I get the typical email validation thing asking me to complete my registration.
I email back and say "I don't WANT to register"
I'm insulted y the moderator asking me why I would register when I don't want to register.
I ask why I am unable to tell the site "Hey I don't want to register, it wasn't me who registered to your site".
I'm basically told "Tough, we have your email address now... it's your fault."
The account (including your email address) you mention here was removed from our database on 08/25. We do not retain information about our former users.

Congratulations, now if only that had been done before you treated me like a fool for a simple mistake.

Way to do your job.

Lets not get too carried away here. I know you feel like you were treated wrong (I'm not you so I have to guess :smiley2:) but in the end the outcome was what you wanted. They did delete your account. Try not to shoot the messenger. "Breath in, breath out, move on."

FD

edit - Way to sneak in and steal my thunder Larry! J/K. Glad to see you taking time to read the forums still.

TxScubaBear
09-06-2007, 08:59
Larry- this thread seems to have turned into a "slam fest"- might wanna consider locking it down.....we see enough slamming on other ventures and DON'T need it here.....

just my 2 shekels sir

greyzen
09-06-2007, 09:02
k, I'm calm :)

But this simple has to be said...

Christopher Walken is awesome. (re - Foo vs. Doss)

ScubaToys Larry
09-06-2007, 09:02
Larry- this thread seems to have turned into a "slam fest"- might wanna consider locking it down.....we see enough slamming on other ventures and DON'T need it here.....

just my 2 shekels sir

Yes, I was seeing the same thing... thus the above post. Figured I'd give everyone a chance to calm down, have a big scuba hug, accept our difference and move on like adults... Otherwise, I'll just make it all go away like a bad dive dream. (Is there such a thing??)

TxScubaBear
09-06-2007, 09:06
"A bad day of diving beats a good day at work!!"

thor
09-06-2007, 09:11
Please DON'T shut this down. I think it is important to see the community self regulate the thread, which is what looks like is happening. We shouldn't delete threads just because everyone responding does not agree. However, I agree that we should all try to stay constructive and not make personal attacks on one another. So in an effort to chill this thread down, here is a summary of the thread:

SB good.
Some people on SB not good.
ST good
Some people on ST mad at some people on SB.
Some people on SB mad at ST for saying that they are mad.
Some people on ST get madder at SB

SB and ST take a deep breath, shake hands, and place nice together.
(Well the last part hasn't happened yet)

Dewie, Cheatum, & Howe
09-06-2007, 09:14
Well said Thor. You the man

awap
09-06-2007, 09:24
Hey guys... there is a fine line of talking about web sites, and companies, and then pointing at individuals. When the individuals are close to the companies, I realize the line is kind of thin, but if we can let this settle down - and not have people attacking one another... it would be great.

So please don't get this into a personal fight... I really have too much to do to go deleting posts today!

It's not an all or nothing, it's not an us or them... we're just scuba divers and some like cold water - some like warm. Some like BC's, some like plates, some like split fins, some like jet fins... some like one forum, some like another. There is no need to make it personal though... OK??

Thanks guys!

I realize it may take a little more time initially, but rather than deleting posts and threads or having mods edit unacceptable material; asking posters to change their post may be more effective in the long run. Folks who are stepping over the line get to take themselves back rather than be carried back and learn more from the incident. Folks who refuse to make the change may be candidates for exclusion. Otherwise, the differences between this board and less friendly boards are liable to fade.

Let folks take full responsibility for what they post.

awap
09-06-2007, 09:31
"A bad day of diving beats a good day at work!!"

There are exceptions. I've had a bad day of diving when one diver never returned. But with 20 years in the Army, I've had bad days at work also.

Back to your regular broadcast....

thor
09-06-2007, 09:37
"A bad day of diving beats a good day at work!!"

There are exceptions. I've had a bad day of diving when one diver never returned. But with 20 years in the Army, I've had bad days at work also.

Back to your regular broadcast....



I hope those stories aren't in your tooth fairy book. That would scare the bajesus outta my kid.

awap
09-06-2007, 09:42
"A bad day of diving beats a good day at work!!"

There are exceptions. I've had a bad day of diving when one diver never returned. But with 20 years in the Army, I've had bad days at work also.

Back to your regular broadcast....



I hope those stories aren't in your tooth fairy book. That would scare the bajesus outta my kid.

My daughter is the Toothfairy. I just do a little free advertising.

DiverBob
09-06-2007, 10:03
Hey guys... there is a fine line of talking about web sites, and companies, and then pointing at individuals. When the individuals are close to the companies, I realize the line is kind of thin, but if we can let this settle down - and not have people attacking one another... it would be great.

So please don't get this into a personal fight... I really have too much to do to go deleting posts today!

It's not an all or nothing, it's not an us or them... we're just scuba divers and some like cold water - some like warm. Some like BC's, some like plates, some like split fins, some like jet fins... some like one forum, some like another. There is no need to make it personal though... OK??

Thanks guys!

Amen Larry!! I am one of three moderators on a travel forum with +9000 users... Fortunately, we only have the need to lock threads occasionally.. to enforce what has been stated many times already in this thread... the more popular/bigger the board, the more diversity/opinions, the more characters that surface and clash.. Guess it comes with the territory.

Virtual ST "let's all get along" PAATTAAY!! http://www.diverbob.com/photoalbum/smileys/dancing1.gif

Who's bringing the beer? :smiley1:

TxScubaBear
09-06-2007, 10:06
PAATTAAY!! http://www.diverbob.com/photoalbum/smileys/dancing1.gif

Who's bringing the beer? :smiley1:

The names' Adams, Sam Adams, as in Boston lager....

awap
09-06-2007, 10:21
PAATTAAY!! http://www.diverbob.com/photoalbum/smileys/dancing1.gif

Who's bringing the beer? :smiley1:

The names' Adams, Sam Adams, as in Boston lager....

Step away from the yellow stuff. Try their Black Lager.

El Orans
09-06-2007, 12:26
I stopped this morning.... since it's down again....

MichaelIt was announced yesterday that we would have a few hours of down time today for some scheduled maintenance.

ScubaToys Larry
09-06-2007, 12:47
I stopped this morning.... since it's down again....

MichaelIt was announced yesterday that we would have a few hours of down time today for some scheduled maintenance.

Glad it was no major melt down then... I've already had a few hiccups and know how frustrating these things can be!

ScottZeagle
09-06-2007, 12:47
"A bad day of diving beats a good day at work!!"

There are exceptions. I've had a bad day of diving when one diver never returned. But with 20 years in the Army, I've had bad days at work also.

Back to your regular broadcast....



I hope those stories aren't in your tooth fairy book. That would scare the bajesus outta my kid.

My daughter is the Toothfairy. I just do a little free advertising.

Can you talk to her about those teeth prices???

My 13 year old used to get $1 per tooth...

My 8 year old expected upwards of $3 per tooth...

My 3 year old hasn't lost any teeth yet, but I fear that one is gonna cost me $5 per tooth!!!!!

Man, back when I was a boy.....

TxScubaBear
09-06-2007, 13:27
Aw c'mon Scott!
ya gotta allow for inflation!

And back when I was a kid, I was lucky if I got a dime!

greyzen
09-06-2007, 13:38
You people got PAID for loosing teeth?!

awap
09-06-2007, 15:24
Inflation, insurance, energy costs...

It's never too soon to start saving for that new regulator. 28 teeth @ only $5 each barely gets you an entry level 1st & 2nd. Loosen up.

ScottZeagle
09-06-2007, 15:26
Inflation, insurance, energy costs...

It's never too soon to start saving for that new regulator. 28 teeth @ only $5 each barely gets you an entry level 1st & 2nd. Loosen up.

Man, you think my kids pay for scuba gear???

They just go and grab what they want off the shelf!!!!

:(

Zenagirl
09-06-2007, 15:35
Okay, so if kids get $3 a tooth, how much does an old person get? Aren't their teeth worth more? ;)

torrey
09-06-2007, 15:38
You people got PAID for loosing teeth?!

Everybody does...you too! Unfortunately, the theft fairy hit your house shortly after the tooth fairy left.

JCAT
09-06-2007, 17:41
snip..

So please don't get this into a personal fight... I really have too much to do to go deleting posts today! snip..

Thanks guys!

Thats right, Larry and Joe have stuff to sell to me!! :smiley20:

Order is coming at you on Monday. Need custom 3mil possibly among other odds and ends..new gloves..new spool..ect.

skippy11
09-07-2007, 00:25
Wow! $3-5.oo per tooth. I will definately be broke before my kiddo looses all her teeth!! I remember thinking a quarter or 1 dollar was incredible. I was rich! At least I thought I was, when I was a kid.

greyzen
09-07-2007, 08:18
Skippy, I'll be honest with you...

If someone gave me a dollar for loosing something nowdays I'd still feel rich :D

Imagine that...

"Greyzen, what movie did we see last week?"
"Movie? Uhmm... we went to the movies?"
"Nevermind honey, here's a dollar."

I'd be a millionaire

coralcrazed
09-13-2007, 20:57
Don't get me wrong, I believe SB is a great resource for information, but do the people who use it have to be so snotty?

Recently a member of SB board posted some photos and asked for help on IDing them. I agreed with one of his ID's stating that I "thought" he was right. Then I get a PM from someone, whom I don't personally know entitled:

"A little more work on your IDs, Thor.+ " .. with a link to his post where he relpies that I was incorrect in my assumption. Now if I am wrong, fine, please point it out in a respectful way. The whole purpose of the forum is to voice one's opinion and let other's voice their's. ..

Do you really have to send me a private message telling me how wrong I was? Is that really necessary? I can read the post. Please don't let this kind of snobbery happen here.

and... the get on you if you dare start a thread that already exists. even if it does not answer your question.

divecop 234
09-20-2007, 21:46
thor you hit the proverbial nail on the head with this one.

RoadRacer1978
10-05-2007, 19:40
Yes. I still post on SB, b ut I do not like the overall tone on alot of the areas. If you disagree with the views of certain people, watch out. Those same people have no prblem calling out "NetDoc" on his own forum as well. Great place that has been taken over by some bullies. I have noticed that alot of the people here are some of the same "good" people from SB. Glad to see those people here.

Chocoholic
10-06-2007, 13:32
I got some great info RE: getting a new regulator. But I mostly just research stuff now on SB now, since most of the time you get the response..... here is how you do a search (you moron).... and god forbid you bring up a thread that is older than a month.