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Vercingetorix
08-21-2007, 11:10
There it is. The one thought that no modern woman wants to consider.

And, I'm not referring to an OOA situation. I was recently watching Sex and the City and this was the theme. Granted that Carrie, Sam, Miranda, and Charlotte are "All Manhattan, All the Time", but I think the concept extends beyond their little island.

The modern female wants to think of herself as self-reliant, self-assured, and self-confident to take on any situation that might arise. This attitude applies to her professional, personal, or recreational lives. Yet, are we pre-programmed by nature to assume certain roles: man as the protector and woman as the protected? Or have we evolved beyond that?

As divers, we (men and women) are taught from our very first open water classroom session: when you're underwater, you are on your own. You look to your buddy in case of emergency, such as OOA. But, ultimately, you must take care of yourself. As divers, women must possess real self-assurance, not simple bravado. So, would a woman diver answer differently than her non-diving counterpart?

The intent here is not to start a flame war, but to simply ask the same complex question asked by Carrie Bradshaw:
Do women want to be rescued?

Foo2
08-21-2007, 11:29
The intent here is not to start a flame war, but to simply ask the same complex question asked by Carrie Bradshaw:
Do women want to be rescued?

I'm not even gonna get started on the fact that you watch and quote Sex and the City....mmmhhhhmmmm....man card please...:smilie39:

But to answer your question, personally...I'm a little old fashioned and I don't consider myself a feminist. That being said, I do like to feel like I can take care of myself if I need to. I might be small, but I'm pretty scrappy. At the same time, if someone is trying to hurt me and there is someone standing by and watching, whether they are a guy or a girl, I'd appreciate a little help.:smiley2: As far as everyday kind of stuff, once again I'm old fashioned, I don't have any problem having Fooman2 step in and rescue me. I don't have any problem saying that something is too heavy for me or that I'm too short to reach something. I don't feel that I have anything to prove. Not only that, (please don't take this wrong boys) our men like to feel needed. It kinda helps their egos. I know when Fooman2 has to "rescue" me from something, he feels all macho getting to help out the "little lady". I really feel like it's in our nature to want to be taken care of and in guy's nature to want to take care of us. I know that to some, I'm going to sound like a cave woman...and maybe I do, but I really think that it's instinctive. Just my $.02.

lucidblue
08-21-2007, 11:32
From a life perspective: I am independent and know I can survive on my own, both financially and emotionally. I have a good job, I own my home, have close friends and family, etc. Do I want to spend my life being completely independent... no. Having a man you can depend on is a great thing. When someone is trustworthy and truly cares about you, it is easier to let down that guard and "share" your life with someone. Is that being rescued, no I don't think so, it's just having that special person to experience your life with.

From a diving perspective: As in any sport, I know I am ultimately responsible for myself. Hopefully, my buddy is there to do the pre-dive checks and we stay together and look out for each other and can help in an emergency. My buddy is my SO and I trust him with my life. We both look out for each other underwater and while you're responsible for yourself, your actions can effect your buddy. Personally, I would only want to dive with someone I knew I could depend on and whose behavior wouldn't put my life at risk.

Vercingetorix
08-21-2007, 11:36
Carrie and I were not really referring to situations where one might be harmed. Rather, do women want to be taken care of in everyday life? Not the "kept woman", not "the princess", but just have a man there to take care of life when it's a bit stressful.

Regarding watching Sex and the City, Miss SmartyPants, how else am I to learn about this complex creature called Women?

Disneymom
08-21-2007, 12:01
I think that Foo2 put the whole thing very well.
We're all different - there are still plenty of women out there, I think, that would be perfectly happy to just get married and have someone do everything for them. (I am NOT suggesting that anyone here is like that, and I definitely don't think anyone is.) On the extreme other side, there are those who want no part of assistance, in any shape or form. Most of us probably fall in the middle - I know I do. I am capable of doing things, but I like having my significant other be there for me to assist if I need it, but I also enjoy having that person to share life with as well.
I think (honey, if you're reading this, chime in - and guys, you can probably vouch) men like to be chivalrous, it's just in their nature. I don't think that having "man help" is necessarily neandrethal - they (men) need to be needed, wanted, appreciated, and be able to step in and 'save' us if necessary. And, we like to be taken care of and pampered, too - you know?

cgvmer
08-21-2007, 12:28
If they don't want to be rescued can you ask the woman past the breakers to stop screaming 'HELP"....................geez

ertechsg
08-21-2007, 12:54
Rick, buddy do we need to go have a beer and talk?:smiley36: Sex and the City, really? As far as learning you are married and have already been trained so don't worry about learning anything new unless the wife wants you too..then she will teach you.(without you even knowing)

dallasdivergirl
08-21-2007, 12:56
Speaking from a woman who has going thru a very up & down year (3 moves, 3 jobs, divorce, a few dating encounters, lots of diving, new dog) there were times when I needed someone, anyone to step in & tell me to stop. I push too hard too often. My boss stepped in once, my parents have stepped in several times and so have my sisters. But I do know everything I do rests on my shoulders. I don't have a back up. I completely lost my friend support system.

Would I have loved to had a man around? Sure. But I did that for 4 years and it was worse than being alone.

To sum this all up, I want/need someone I can depend on but I do know that having some one in my life doesn't guarantee that.

If some one wants to rescue me, please do so. I will take cash donations.

ScubaJenn81
08-21-2007, 13:06
I like to ask questions and get opinions, and that may seem like I want to be rescued (sometime to my husband) but I ask who ever is around, man or woman. Plus I like to think of it as being informed, not just not going with my guy.

Vercingetorix
08-21-2007, 14:05
Rick, buddy do we need to go have a beer and talk?Sounds good to me. Be advised: as a REAL man,I brew my own beer from scratch (none of that wussy extract brewing for me, thanks)
Sex and the City, really? As far as learning you are married and have already been trained so don't worry about learning anything new unless the wife wants you too..then she will teach you.(without you even knowing)To quote the inimitable Red Green (a man among men) and my brothers at Possum Lodge:

I'm a man.
I can change.
If I have to.
I guess.

Quando omni flunctus moratati

Illini_Fan
08-21-2007, 14:14
Rick, buddy do we need to go have a beer and talk?Sounds good to me. Be advised: as a REAL man,I brew my own beer from scratch (none of that wussy extract brewing for me, thanks)
Sex and the City, really? As far as learning you are married and have already been trained so don't worry about learning anything new unless the wife wants you too..then she will teach you.(without you even knowing)To quote the inimitable Red Green (a man among men) and my brothers at Possum Lodge:

I'm a man.
I can change.
If I have to.
I guess.

Quando omni flunctus moratati

If Foo2, DisneyMom and DallasDiverGirl try to take your man card away for Sex and the City, I think the reference to the Red Green show is more than enough to earn it back

Funny stuff at the Possum Lodge :smilie40::smiley20:

Vercingetorix
08-21-2007, 14:20
If Foo2, DisneyMom and DallasDiverGirl try to take your man card away for Sex and the City, I think the reference to the Red Green show is more than enough to earn it back

Funny stuff at the Possum LodgeA fellow member? Excellent. Grab the duct tape and lets convert my Festiva into a two-man submarine and portable bar-b-q pit.

dallasdivergirl
08-21-2007, 15:17
Rick, buddy do we need to go have a beer and talk?Sounds good to me. Be advised: as a REAL man,I brew my own beer from scratch (none of that wussy extract brewing for me, thanks)
Sex and the City, really? As far as learning you are married and have already been trained so don't worry about learning anything new unless the wife wants you too..then she will teach you.(without you even knowing)To quote the inimitable Red Green (a man among men) and my brothers at Possum Lodge:

I'm a man.
I can change.
If I have to.
I guess.

Quando omni flunctus moratati

If Foo2, DisneyMom and DallasDiverGirl try to take your man card away for Sex and the City, I think the reference to the Red Green show is more than enough to earn it back

Funny stuff at the Possum Lodge :smilie40::smiley20:

Sorry Rick....

Quoting Red Green after all of the nail polish and shower and sally visits doesn't earn you your man card back.

The metro man card is still in the mail!

Illini_Fan
08-21-2007, 15:21
Sorry Rick....

Quoting Red Green after all of the nail polish and shower and sally visits doesn't earn you your man card back.

The metro man card is still in the mail!

I tried to save you Rick, but you managed to dig a fairly deep hole and it sounds like you might have dug it with a nail file purchased at Sally's

Vercingetorix
08-21-2007, 15:30
Sorry Rick....

Quoting Red Green after all of the nail polish and shower and sally visits doesn't earn you your man card back.

The metro man card is still in the mail!Scoff if you wish, little lady. Send me one card, send me a thousand. I am secure in my male-ness.:smiley36:

Besides, I have the respect and support of a fellow Possum Lodge member. United We Stand!! Together, we'll probably burn down the lodge.

Anyway, doesn't the fact that I brew my own beer secure my manhood in your eyes?

Oh, and one more little factoid, miss; I bake. My specialty? Chocolate. The following phrase does not exist in the English language: Too Much Chocolate. My Death By Chocolate features eight, that's right, eight different forms of chocolate. And, you ain' gettin' none of it. See...ya talked yourself, and your fellow travellers out of it.:smilie39:

ertechsg
08-21-2007, 15:40
should have stayed out of women issuses. It's not our place. Rick if you should continue you will be left on your own. Sorry man I know better. I to watch certain tv shows but would never broard cast then in public :smiley16: At least be a man and use your wifes name:smiley36:

dallasdivergirl
08-21-2007, 15:43
Sorry Rick....

Quoting Red Green after all of the nail polish and shower and sally visits doesn't earn you your man card back.

The metro man card is still in the mail!Scoff if you wish, little lady. Send me one card, send me a thousand. I am secure in my male-ness.:smiley36:

Besides, I have the respect and support of a fellow Possum Lodge member. United We Stand!! Together, we'll probably burn down the lodge.

Anyway, doesn't the fact that I brew my own beer secure my manhood in your eyes?

Oh, and one more little factoid, miss; I bake. My specialty? Chocolate. The following phrase does not exist in the English language: Too Much Chocolate. My Death By Chocolate features eight, that's right, eight different forms of chocolate. And, you ain' gettin' none of it. See...ya talked yourself, and your fellow travellers out of it.:smilie39:

I saw that your fellow lodge member threw you back out to the girls!

I do know there is no such thing as too much dark chocolate. That milk chocolate stuff is good for smores. I refer to the Godiva key lime dark chocolate truffles as a near sex experience. I will say that those folks across the pond have much better stuff. I had a chocolate confection in Paris 4 years that I can still remember the taste of. And don't get me started on chocolate crossiants.

Vercingetorix
08-21-2007, 15:51
I saw that your fellow lodge member threw you back out to the girls!

It's not our place. Rick if you should continue you will be left on your own. Sorry man I know better.Cowardice in the face of adversity...not a pretty sight.


I do know there is no such thing as too much dark chocolate.I think I'm in love.
That milk chocolate stuff is good for smores. I refer to the Godiva key lime dark chocolate truffles as a near sex experience.Now, I KNOW I'm in love.
I will say that those folks across the pond have much better stuff. I had a chocolate confection in Paris 4 years that I can still remember the taste of. And don't get me started on chocolate crossiants.Say it with me, sister:

Hello, my name is Sparky, and I'm a choco-holic.

Illini_Fan
08-21-2007, 16:00
I saw that your fellow lodge member threw you back out to the girls!



Yes Rick, I abandoned you pretty quickly. :smiley21: I'm not proud of it.

Vercingetorix
08-21-2007, 16:06
I saw that your fellow lodge member threw you back out to the girls!



Yes Rick, I abandoned you pretty quickly. :smiley21: I'm not proud of it.Man up, nancy boy.:smiley36:

Yes, DDG's avatar is cute and disarming. But, that's no excuse.

Besides, after all is said and done, I think she really wants to be rescued...
(oh man, I can't get outta here fast enough after that one).

Illini_Fan
08-21-2007, 16:21
I saw that your fellow lodge member threw you back out to the girls!



Yes Rick, I abandoned you pretty quickly. :smiley21: I'm not proud of it.Man up, nancy boy.:smiley36:

Yes, DDG's avatar is cute and disarming. But, that's no excuse.
.

Actually it is a damn good excuse in my book.

Disneymom
08-21-2007, 16:34
Oh, and one more little factoid, miss; I bake. My specialty? Chocolate. The following phrase does not exist in the English language: Too Much Chocolate. My Death By Chocolate features eight, that's right, eight different forms of chocolate. And, you ain' gettin' none of it. See...ya talked yourself, and your fellow travellers out of it.:smilie39:
foo2 stripped you of your man-card and now you admit to baking? Not BBQ, but baking??? What exactly were you cut down with your chainsaw yesterday, a cocoa tree?

Not that there's anything wrong with baking, mind you - and DDG is absolutely right about the dark chocolate. Milk chocolate is for sissies.

dallasdivergirl
08-21-2007, 16:42
I saw that your fellow lodge member threw you back out to the girls!



Yes Rick, I abandoned you pretty quickly. :smiley21: I'm not proud of it.Man up, nancy boy.:smiley36:

Yes, DDG's avatar is cute and disarming. But, that's no excuse.
.

Actually it is a damn good excuse in my book.

Don't let the sweet/innocent/cute avatar fool you.... click on it.

I swim with the sharks!!!


Thanks for shortening my name. Dallasdivergirl is PITA. DDG is much better.

Vercingetorix
08-21-2007, 16:44
foo2 stripped you of your man-card and now you admit to baking? Not BBQ, but baking???And the great chefs are...(drum roll)...men. To paraphrase the Soup Nazi: No Chocolate for You!.
Not that there's anything wrong with baking, mind you - and DDG is absolutely right about the dark chocolate. Milk chocolate is for sissies.Depends upon the use. Milk chocolate is a great counter-taste to a dark cabernet. Dark chocolate over-powers the tanins of the wine.

Vercingetorix
08-21-2007, 16:49
I swim with the sharks!!!Yet, they do not attack. I knew it: you have harnessed the dark forces to protect you. Or, they look at how small you are and figure, "why bother...she's just a light snack between meals".


Thanks for shortening my name. Dallasdivergirl is PITA. DDG is much better.Or, you can go with Sparky.

Disneymom
08-21-2007, 17:00
And the great chefs are...(drum roll)...men. To paraphrase the Soup Nazi: No Chocolate for You!.
Depends upon the use. Milk chocolate is a great counter-taste to a dark cabernet. Dark chocolate over-powers the tanins of the wine. ok you got me there - since I don't do cabernets. And yes, the great chefs.....
OK, tiptoeing quietly back out of the room now.

dallasdivergirl
08-21-2007, 17:05
I swim with the sharks!!!Yet, they do not attack. I knew it: you have harnessed the dark forces to protect you. Or, they look at how small you are and figure, "why bother...she's just a light snack between meals".


Thanks for shortening my name. Dallasdivergirl is PITA. DDG is much better.Or, you can go with Sparky.

There are a few people who call me that in person (any one who lives in Roatan). It's my diving nick-name. I have a long string of non-diving ones.

divechaplain-sara
08-21-2007, 19:00
As a single, never married, woman who is well into her adult life, I have learned to do many things that I never thought I would do. I can do minor plumbing, change a tire, change a car battery, change the oil, change the oil pan gasket, change out head lights, brake lights and blinkers, etc. etc. etc. I can even patch holes in a wall. Those are all things that my dad and or brothers would have taken care of when I was growing up. I am actually quite proud of the fact that I can do these things and take care of myself. However, back in July I had a head light go out on my car. I had bought a replacement light. I had gone to visit my dive buddy who was moving from Corpus Christi to Oregon--her parents were there to help with her move. I had already said bye and then I popped the hood of my car to change the light bulb. Her dad came over, changed the light bulb and checked all the fluids in my car. I could have and would have done all those things myself. However, it sure was nice to have someone take care of them for me. And it made me feel special in a way that is different from doing it for myself. So I think that we women (this one in partiuclar anyway) like knowing that we can do it ourselves, being able to do it ourselves if we need to, and then having someone else do it for us because they want to take care of us.

Queen
08-21-2007, 19:08
Maybe they should change the name of this sub forum from "Womans Issues" to "Men's Area To Ask Questions/Make Comments About Women". :anim_rolleyes:

ixrayu
08-21-2007, 21:46
I second Queen! But I am getting a kick out of everything. Do I want to be rescued? Sometimes it is nice. Do I need to be? Nope. Worked many third shifts only tech in the dept, now a office manager. I can handle just about whatever is thrown my way (which in my work life has been many things such as false teeth, shoes, etc. Verbal insults, etc). But I do LOVE my hubby.

Vercingetorix
08-21-2007, 22:26
Maybe they should change the name of this sub forum from "Womans Issues" to "Men's Area To Ask Questions/Make Comments About Women". :anim_rolleyes:Or, perhaps using the title of that song from Camelot, How to Handle A Woman. Yeah...I know showtunes. And who doesn't love showtunes???

lucidblue
08-21-2007, 22:30
As a single, never married, woman who is well into her adult life, I have learned to do many things that I never thought I would do. I can do minor plumbing, change a tire, change a car battery, change the oil, change the oil pan gasket, change out head lights, brake lights and blinkers, etc. etc. etc. I can even patch holes in a wall. Those are all things that my dad and or brothers would have taken care of when I was growing up. I am actually quite proud of the fact that I can do these things and take care of myself. However, back in July I had a head light go out on my car. I had bought a replacement light. I had gone to visit my dive buddy who was moving from Corpus Christi to Oregon--her parents were there to help with her move. I had already said bye and then I popped the hood of my car to change the light bulb. Her dad came over, changed the light bulb and checked all the fluids in my car. I could have and would have done all those things myself. However, it sure was nice to have someone take care of them for me. And it made me feel special in a way that is different from doing it for myself. So I think that we women (this one in partiuclar anyway) like knowing that we can do it ourselves, being able to do it ourselves if we need to, and then having someone else do it for us because they want to take care of us.

I agree, it is nice to be taken care of sometimes.

Liv7301
08-21-2007, 23:27
Sometimes women need to feel vulnerable and protected. And other times we feel the need to be more independant emotionally. Just two different sides of the many-faceted beings that we are. (Wasn't that all sweet and flowery like a "birds and bees" video?)

And Rick, you are just a fascinating mixed bag of tricks. As a woman who hates to cook on weeknights I appreciate your knowledge around the kitchen. Also being a music teacher who performs in community theatre I also appreciate your knowledge of showtunes. You can make me Death By Chocolate any time :)

Queen
08-22-2007, 05:43
Maybe they should change the name of this sub forum from "Womans Issues" to "Men's Area To Ask Questions/Make Comments About Women". :anim_rolleyes:Or, perhaps using the title of that song from Camelot, How to Handle A Woman. Yeah...I know showtunes. And who doesn't love showtunes???

Being condescending and masking it as humor is just a hoot too.

Krakenn
08-22-2007, 05:48
oops i got lost

Kraks

Queen
08-22-2007, 06:09
oops i got lost

Kraks

Mens room is third door down on the left. :thumb:

Charlotte Smith
08-22-2007, 06:15
Yes Yes and more Yes...I love to be rescued and my husband does his job very well......I love being taken care of and he knows wether or not I have things under control and that if I am handling it well I simply need back-up and not rescuing. Make sense?

Vercingetorix
08-22-2007, 06:48
And Rick, you are just a fascinating mixed bag of tricks. As a woman who hates to cook on weeknights I appreciate your knowledge around the kitchen. Also being a music teacher who performs in community theatre I also appreciate your knowledge of showtunes. You can make me Death By Chocolate any time :)Ahhh...a woman who appreciates that a man can do, or be, many things. One order of Death By Chocolate coming up.

Vercingetorix
08-22-2007, 06:50
Being condescending and masking it as humor is just a hoot too.Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!:smiley32:

We have a winner. When would you like your order of death By Chocolate delivered?

Disneymom
08-22-2007, 08:10
Or, perhaps using the title of that song from Camelot, How to Handle A Woman. Yeah...I know showtunes. And who doesn't love showtunes???:vb_hail:
showtunes rock. If it makes you feel better, my husband listens to showtunes, too.

Queen
08-22-2007, 08:13
Being condescending and masking it as humor is just a hoot too.Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!:smiley32:

We have a winner. When would you like your order of death By Chocolate delivered?

No thank you. What I'd like is to be able to contribute to this forum without the fellas needing to chime in on all of the topics (although some have positive contributions to make) or, in your case, start ones that are on the edge of being patronizing. Just post 'em in the general topics instead.

I don't want to get into a flame war with you, I just want you to know I find your threads to be unnecessary here. Others may disagree and since the powers that be haven't said they'd rather you stop then I imagine you'll continue on...I'll just post elsewhere and we can agree to leave one another alone. :thumb:

ScubaToys Larry
08-22-2007, 08:26
Yea... overall guys... If we can... leave this forum basically to the women. We put up your "Man Laws" forum and this is really a place for the women. Lets please try to leave it as a place for them to discuss things that are important to them - not an area for us to crack blond jokes and the like.

If this thread was in jokes, man laws, etc... perhaps it would not be a problem, but lets leave the women alone in here - you can meet up with them in other forums.

I did not want to have to make this an opt in forum by gender - so if you want to peek, or add insight because of your wife, girlfriend told you something, etc... or if someone asks for a male opinion... but otherwise...

Please head to another forum where you can leave the seat up.

Thanks!

YellowfinKunkfish
08-22-2007, 09:12
But if all the men stop posting here, who will we hassle??!! :smiley2:

It was all in good fun. They didn't mean any harm.

Personally, I was having a good time.:shrug03:

Rhonda

ScubaToys Larry
08-22-2007, 10:06
But if all the men stop posting here, who will we hassle??!! :smiley2:

It was all in good fun. They didn't mean any harm.

Personally, I was having a good time.:shrug03:

Rhonda

Well, it's kind of unfair having an intellectual argument with men. It's basically fighting an unarmed man! (Present company included.)

It will probably just take a bit for people to find the forums where things are appropriate - I just didn't want the Womens Issues forum to become a "pick on women" area... If I was out of line with my post - just let me know.

dallasdivergirl
08-22-2007, 10:14
But if all the men stop posting here, who will we hassle??!! :smiley2:

It was all in good fun. They didn't mean any harm.

Personally, I was having a good time.:shrug03:

Rhonda

Well, it's kind of unfair having an intellectual argument with men. It's basically fighting an unarmed man! (Present company included.)

It will probably just take a bit for people to find the forums where things are appropriate - I just didn't want the Womens Issues forum to become a "pick on women" area... If I was out of line with my post - just let me know.


Larry,

I agree that some of the post are in good fun & some of them are patronizing. I think it's great that you set up a Man Law area. That has been some of my best laughs in the last 24 hours.

Thanks for the visual of fighting an unarmed man. Can I bring my mace or will the handgun suffice?

YellowfinKunkfish
08-22-2007, 11:02
But if all the men stop posting here, who will we hassle??!! :smiley2:

It was all in good fun. They didn't mean any harm.

Personally, I was having a good time.:shrug03:

Rhonda

Well, it's kind of unfair having an intellectual argument with men. It's basically fighting an unarmed man! (Present company included.)

It will probably just take a bit for people to find the forums where things are appropriate - I just didn't want the Womens Issues forum to become a "pick on women" area... If I was out of line with my post - just let me know.


Larry,

I agree that some of the post are in good fun & some of them are patronizing. I think it's great that you set up a Man Law area. That has been some of my best laughs in the last 24 hours.

Thanks for the visual of fighting an unarmed man. Can I bring my mace or will the handgun suffice?

Larry: Not out of line at all, I just didn't want to hurt the poor men's feelings, or make them feel unwanted. It was all in good fun. I really didn't feel patronized or picked on though, just thought we were all having a good time.:smiley2:

I suppose though as the board grows larger, if certain ground rules aren't agreed upon now, there could always be some men that are patronizing, or rude. So, in that sense, I guess it's necessary.

I agree completely that the new Man Law area is a HOOT!!

I'm learning lots of new interesting things in there....:smiley36:

Rhonda

Vercingetorix
08-22-2007, 14:13
My posts were patronizing...towards men. DallasDiverGirl, Foo2, YellowfinKunkfish, and DisneyMom got the joke. They played along with it, and they appeared not to be offended. Had they been so, I would have anticipated a PM to that effect. Rather, their PMs to me were supportive and, even playful.

Didn't mean to get anybody's knickers in a twist.

C ya.

Brewer
08-22-2007, 19:44
Playboy helped the rest of us guys

scuba Widow
09-01-2007, 13:00
I don't like to be rescued...I can fight my own fight and would rather do so.