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DJBadfish
04-06-2009, 09:26
Has anybody heard any updates on potential dates when they plan on sinking the USS Vandenberg? I had read that it was in Key West now and that several of the dive charters were already booking people for the first couple days but no firm dates have been announced.

Jason

TommyB
04-06-2009, 09:37
Has anybody heard any updates on potential dates when they plan on sinking the USS Vandenberg? I had read that it was in Key West now and that several of the dive charters were already booking people for the first couple days but no firm dates have been announced.

Jason

April 4th it was still sitting in Norfolk


Sink the Vandenberg (http://bigshipwrecks.com/)

mike_s
04-06-2009, 11:21
Has anybody heard any updates on potential dates when they plan on sinking the USS Vandenberg? I had read that it was in Key West now and that several of the dive charters were already booking people for the first couple days but no firm dates have been announced.

Jason


I wouldn't send any money for reserving a dive charter, hotel, or airline reservation until that thing is sitting in the sand at the bottom of the ocean.


the Vandenberg has issued many "proposed dates" over the past 6+ years of when they intended to sink it, and they have missed EVERY DATE.


I understand dive shops wanting to cash in on the ship coming and make reservations early, but with the economy the way it is, dive shops are going out of business more and more. So don't send any money to ANY of them for diving this boat until it's sunk. Otherwise you could be left with a reservation worth nothing if the shop goes under before it's sunk.

clararhb
04-06-2009, 11:36
It seems to be one of those ships that just doesn't want to sink. The last date that I saw has long come and gone.
Still kinda funny that shops are taking reservation for it. Let me use your money till they sink it or you give up hope. If you forget that you gave me money then I get to keep it.

mike_s
04-06-2009, 11:58
It seems to be one of those ships that just doesn't want to sink. The last date that I saw has long come and gone.
Still kinda funny that shops are taking reservation for it. Let me use your money till they sink it or you give up hope. If you forget that you gave me money then I get to keep it.


well if they ever get it sunk, then you'll see pretty much all the boats headed only to that spot. They won't hardly go to other dive sites anymore.

Just like what a lot of the operators do now in Pensacola now that the Oriskany is down.

they'll do two tank dives on it and never have to move.



BTW... expect to see a price increase in dive trips once the Vandenberg is sunk. No telling what they will blame it on. (cost of gas, etc), but I'm wondering if all the operators will get together and have a "set price" like they did on the Oriskany. :smilie40:

scubadiver888
04-06-2009, 13:17
The last thing posted to USS Vandenberg (http://ussvandenberg.com/) was March 1, 2009. They indicated the current goal is to sink the thing mid-April so they can avoid hurricane season.

However Sink the Vandenberg (http://www.bigshipwrecks.com/) indicates it is still in Norfolk, VA and work is on going.

Getting it prepped, towed down to the Keys, rigged with explosives, etc. is not feasible in one week. I think at this point it becomes a question of whether or not they are going to try to beat hurricane season or will it get put off until next Spring.

clararhb
04-07-2009, 00:39
Thanks for the info scubadiver888. Looks like she will be sitting for another year.

DJBadfish
04-07-2009, 08:58
Dang... that sucks... My buddies and I were going to get down there this summer to dive it. Oh well, we will still go and dive some of the reefs there. I can think of far worse things then being on a tropical reef diving every day :smiley2:

BL1
04-07-2009, 09:52
Dang... that sucks... My buddies and I were going to get down there this summer to dive it. Oh well, we will still go and dive some of the reefs there. I can think of far worse things then being on a tropical reef diving every day :smiley2:

Don't give up yet....but don't get your hopes too high yet either....

I am currently in Key West on extended vacation. I spoke with the owner of Southpoint Divers yesterday and he had spoken with Joe Weatherby the project manager over the weekend. (The namesake of Joe's tug)

There are 60 people working on the ship up in Norfolk. They are planning on leaving Norfolk by the middle of April. They expect it to be a 10-14 day tow to Key West. EPA inspections have been going on and are going as planned.

The ship will be placed at the Navy Pier. While at the Navy Pier they will place the explosives and cut the pass-through diver holes in the side of the ship.

The hard deadline is June 1st. There is a major insurance issue on June 1st due to the start of hurricane season.

So...they need to be on their way by mid-April or they will have to wait out hurricane season. Dock costs are expensive so that would be a major budget buster.

Once they are in Key West there will be tremendous pressure to get it on the bottom by June 1st. It cannot stay at the pier during hurricane season.

They plan to sink it near Joe's tug in about 140 feet of water. The goal is for the satellite dishes to be at about 30 feet.

Let's hope they make it this time. It sounds like they are getting closer, but I like many others will be waiting for the event before making firm plans to dive it.

clararhb
04-07-2009, 11:31
And if it ends up on its side then the dish will be at 100. :) I really hope that she sits upright when they do sink her.

mike_s
04-07-2009, 12:19
Dang... that sucks... My buddies and I were going to get down there this summer to dive it. Oh well, we will still go and dive some of the reefs there. I can think of far worse things then being on a tropical reef diving every day :smiley2:

Don't give up yet....but don't get your hopes too high yet either....

I am currently in Key West on extended vacation. I spoke with the owner of Southpoint Divers yesterday and he had spoken with Joe Weatherby the project manager over the weekend. (The namesake of Joe's tug)

There are 60 people working on the ship up in Norfolk. They are planning on leaving Norfolk by the middle of April. They expect it to be a 10-14 day tow to Key West. EPA inspections have been going on and are going as planned.

The ship will be placed at the Navy Pier. While at the Navy Pier they will place the explosives and cut the pass-through diver holes in the side of the ship.

The hard deadline is June 1st. There is a major insurance issue on June 1st due to the start of hurricane season.

So...they need to be on their way by mid-April or they will have to wait out hurricane season. Dock costs are expensive so that would be a major budget buster.

Once they are in Key West there will be tremendous pressure to get it on the bottom by June 1st. It cannot stay at the pier during hurricane season.

They plan to sink it near Joe's tug in about 140 feet of water. The goal is for the satellite dishes to be at about 30 feet.

Let's hope they make it this time. It sounds like they are getting closer, but I like many others will be waiting for the event before making firm plans to dive it.


Thanks for the update.

you're right that it can't stay at dock during hurricane season if they got it to Key West and didn't imediately sink it in time...

they would have to tow it back to a Hurricane mooring for the Hurricane season. They had to do this to the Orriskany and it cost major bucks. like the tow was $800k for each way.

cgvmer
04-07-2009, 18:18
And if it ends up on its side then the dish will be at 100. :) I really hope that she sits upright when they do sink her.

Or just wait for the next hurricane to spin it around

clararhb
04-07-2009, 22:47
And if it ends up on its side then the dish will be at 100. :) I really hope that she sits upright when they do sink her.

Or just wait for the next hurricane to spin it around

LOL...how true.

CFDAlden
04-08-2009, 02:22
There were 4 large anchors delivered to the site today. Picked this up from another forum.

Sink the Vandenberg (http://www.bigshipwrecks.com/)

mike_s
04-08-2009, 11:09
There were 4 large anchors delivered to the site today. Picked this up from another forum.

Sink the Vandenberg (http://www.bigshipwrecks.com/)


damn I despise web sites that automatically play music when you go to them...... :smiley21:

clararhb
04-09-2009, 20:43
Looks like there is still hope. I searched a bit and found a web site reporting May 15th as the target.

RoyN
04-13-2009, 01:50
Looks like they're sinking her pretty soon! :D

scubadiver888
04-13-2009, 08:52
Someone posted in a separate thread that it was on the move.

mike_s
04-13-2009, 12:10
520-foot 'Vandenberg' en route to Key West for scuttling

Posted - Sunday, April 12, 2009 03:15 PM EDT

The USS Vandenberg is finally headed to Key West and the last steps in a 13-year process to create the newest artificial reef in the Florida Keys.
Sunday, tugboats eased the 520-foot retired Air Force missile tracking ship down the Elizabeth River into Chesapeake Bay. From there, a single 90-foot tugboat, the Elsbeth III, led the 66-year-old vessel on its final Atlantic coastal voyage, from a Virginia shipyard to the Keys.

The 1,100-mile voyage to Key West, undertaken at about 6 mph, should take eight days, according to Capt. Latham Smith, owner of Smith Towing.

Following the Vandenberg's arrival in Key West, at least a month will be required to complete necessary work before the ship can be sunk six miles south of the island in about 140 feet of water.

Project organizers anticipate the scuttling should take place between May 20 and June 1.

The $8.6 million project was fraught with significant funding delays and increases, but local, state and federal agencies committed money and First State Bank of the Florida Keys rescued the venture last December.
It bid $1.35 million to purchase the ship after it was put up for auction on the steps of the federal courthouse in Norfolk, Va., after Reefmakers, director of the project, couldn't pay its bills for cleaning and storage to a Norfolk shipyard. The bank subsequently transferred the ship's title to the city of Key West.

The ship was in Virginia so pollutants such as asbestos could be removed.



Tugboats ease the former Air Force missile tracking ship 'Vandenberg' through a railroad bridge in Norfolk, Va., on Sunday on its way to Key West.

http://media.keysnet.com/smedia/2009/04/13/09/595-vandyapril12A.standalone.prod_affiliate.143.jpg

RoyN
04-13-2009, 13:11
Is it going to be somewhere near the aircraft carrier?

Rainer
04-13-2009, 13:16
Is it going to be somewhere near the aircraft carrier?

If you consider all FL waters "near" each other, sure. Otherwise, no. Pensacola and Key West aren't exactly neighbors.

mike_s
04-13-2009, 13:35
Is it going to be somewhere near the aircraft carrier?

It might be still in Florida, but it'll still be a 20 hour drive.


Oriskany is in P'cola in the northern part of the state.


Vandenberg will go off Key West.... at the FAR end of the keys.

UCFKnightDiver
04-13-2009, 14:18
no If it is indeed sunk, and I will wait to see that happen before I make any plans to dive it, it will be sunk in Key West the farthest south in FL and pretty far east, the Oriskany sits off of Pensacola, and is the farthest North West in FL its the difference in oh say an approx 12 hour drive between the two of them

UCFKnightDiver
04-13-2009, 14:20
Is it going to be somewhere near the aircraft carrier?

It might be still in Florida, but it'll still be a 20 hour drive.


Oriskany is in P'cola in the northern part of the state.


Vandenberg will go off Key West.... at the FAR end of the keys.

20 hours? umm you sure you didnt mean 10? lol I just map quested it, and it says approximately 13hrs and 13min

DJBadfish
04-13-2009, 14:23
I'm just glad to see some progress going on getting it sunk... just in time for my dive trip it looks like!

RoyN
04-13-2009, 15:51
Personally, I love to dive the Vandenberg for some strange reason.

fire diver
04-13-2009, 16:16
If this thing goes down fast enough I may get to dive this November when I go through KW. Hopefully it won't be a couple hours of boat ride away

mike_s
04-13-2009, 16:26
20 hours? umm you sure you didnt mean 10? lol I just map quested it, and it says approximately 13hrs and 13min


I drive like an old lady... so 20 hours!


actually I just guessed 20. I thought about putting it in Google maps directions for an accurate time but that wasn't working last time I tried it.

we'll go with your 13+ hours :smiley20:


Still not something he'll likely do on the same trip. (unless he wants to do a LOT of driving).

clararhb
04-14-2009, 15:19
Thanks for the post Mike. It gives me chills to see the picture of her moving. Now there will be one more reason to go to KW.

mike_s
04-14-2009, 17:33
Thanks for the post Mike. It gives me chills to see the picture of her moving. Now there will be one more reason to go to KW.


heh... about the only reason to go to KW... :smilie39:

RoyN
04-14-2009, 21:54
Not only that, if I go there, hope I see Mike_s, photohigh, live4shark, and denisegg there! That would be so awesome!

clararhb
04-14-2009, 22:16
Thanks for the post Mike. It gives me chills to see the picture of her moving. Now there will be one more reason to go to KW.


heh... about the only reason to go to KW... :smilie39:

Just about the only reason. Warm temps and plenty of rum are two more.

mrm777
05-26-2009, 11:27
"KEY WEST, Fla. — Crews are preparing for the sinking of a massive World War II ship off Key West.
The Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg will be sunk Wednesday about seven miles off Key West to form one of the world's biggest man-made reefs.
Explosives attached to the ship's hull will be detonated to open it for flooding, which should quickly send it to the sea floor.
The 17,000 ton, 523-foot-long ship will be sunk on a sandy bottom in about 140 feet of clear water.
The Vandenberg will become the world's second largest intentionally sunk artificial reef, behind the USS Oriskany, which was sunk three years ago off the coast of Pensacola Beach in the Florida Panhandle."

Massive WW II Ship Sunk Off Key West to Make Artificial Reef - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521885,00.html?test=latestnews)

BubblesMcCoy
05-26-2009, 12:10
There is a pretty interesting article on seaduction.com that discusses the procedure that they are going to use to sink and then survey the Van.

navyhmc
05-26-2009, 15:56
Still hoping she goes down a planned.

Scuba Pete
05-26-2009, 17:08
The website says the window opens tomorrow at 10AM and they will have a live feed of the sinking.

Sink The Vandenberg: Artificial Reefs of the Keys Official Site! (http://www.sinkthevandenberg.com/)

Will be kinda fun to watch it live.

navyhmc
05-26-2009, 17:49
Thanks for the post, I'm looking forward to viewing! Go Vandy, Go!

mike_s
05-26-2009, 23:11
Still hoping she goes down a planned.

FYI, i read on SB that someone from FWC said it would be delayed 1 day.

I have no verification if this is true, but FYI in case you are watching and wondering why it's not sinking....

navyhmc
05-26-2009, 23:24
Still hoping she goes down a planned.

FYI, i read on SB that someone from FWC said it would be delayed 1 day.

I have no verification if this is true, but FYI in case you are watching and wondering why it's not sinking....

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. :smiley20:

I could just see it if they do delay; There I am looking at an open ocean thinking "WTH!!! They already sunk it?! Why didn't they wait for me?" :smiley36: That or "Sink dammit! Sink!" :smiley36: :smiley36:

K9Pig
05-27-2009, 00:44
On the website that Scuba Pete provided...has a count down clock on the main page.... Still showing today...:smiley20:

9:59.22 and counting...

K9Pig
05-27-2009, 00:47
Wow..post(thread) clock is way off..

navyhmc
05-27-2009, 01:18
Wow..post(thread) clock is way off..

Scuba Toys time is a little laid back from Central Daylight Time.:smiley36:

DJBadfish
05-27-2009, 09:41
Dang...the internet nazis at work are blocking my viewing of the video feed... :smiley21:
Any updates?

Scuba Pete
05-27-2009, 09:42
Dang...the internet nazis at work are blocking my viewing of the video feed... :smiley21:
Any updates?

I cant get in either. That is rather disappointing.

*edit

I just got in. It looks like we still have 50 min to the sinking.

BSea
05-27-2009, 10:08
Just watched it on Fox news. It went down in about a minute. It listed slightly, but it looked to me like it should be upright.

CompuDude
05-27-2009, 11:17
WWII-era ship becomes sunken reef off Key West - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_sinking_the_vandenberg)

On the front page of Yahoo...

ReefHound
05-27-2009, 11:32
Keys News says divers have confirmed it is upright and keel in the sand.

Wormzer
05-27-2009, 19:24
In one video I have seen, it appears that the large satellite dish detaches from the ship and floats on the surface for a few seconds.

Wormzer
05-27-2009, 19:28
Video here.

U.S.S. Vandenberg goes down off Florida, becomes artificial reef | Outposts | Los Angeles Times (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outposts/2009/05/uss-vandenberg-goes-down-off-florida-becomes-artificial-reef.html)

chinacat46
05-27-2009, 19:49
Well this is great news. Just another excuse to go visit my Uncle in FL and get a few dives in too!

navyhmc
05-27-2009, 22:04
Great news! Now to try to book a trip.

mike_s
05-28-2009, 10:15
Great news! Now to try to book a trip.


check around before you book.

some dive operators are really jacking up their prices extra just to dive the Vandenberg.

For exmaple, Dive Key West charged something like $69 or $79 to dive a reef the same distance out, but they now charge $125 to dive the Vandenberg. Vote with your wallet on this type operators.

This is clearly a case of a dive operator price gouging on a ship/reef that was sunk with taxpayer money.

Chilkie
05-28-2009, 15:05
Great...here I was all excited about diving the Oriskany next month and now I have to start working toward a Vandenberg dive. I'll never be satisfied.

For goodness sakes...I was in Key West a month ago.....couldn't they have done this a bit earlier to work with my schedule!!! :smiley36:

mike_s
05-28-2009, 16:09
Great...here I was all excited about diving the Oriskany next month and now I have to start working toward a Vandenberg dive. I'll never be satisfied.

For goodness sakes...I was in Key West a month ago.....couldn't they have done this a bit earlier to work with my schedule!!! :smiley36:


heh..

I've been in Key West about 5 times since this was supposed to have been sunk years ago. I'm glad I didn't plan a trip around it. (I made that mistake after booking a trip to Key Largo for the week after the Grove was sunk. I got to see it, flipped upside down with it's hull sticking out of the water).

they started working on this project YEARS ago, long before the Speigel Gove and the Orriskany..... It's been delayed so many times that I would have bet money against it going down this time.

CFDAlden
05-29-2009, 02:18
From the Vandenberg's Facebook:

The Vandenberg remains closed to visitors Thursday evening. The unexpected delay in the artificial reef's opening is being caused by two unstable satellite dishes on the ship's superstructure. They became dislodged during Wednesday's sinking. A Key West dive charter was criminally charged for taking divers to the site before it officially opened.

So make sure it's open to divers as well! :)

navyhmc
05-29-2009, 06:39
What could they charge the charter with? Just wondering.

UCFKnightDiver
05-29-2009, 09:20
wrecklace endangerment :)

ReefHound
05-29-2009, 09:51
What could they charge the charter with? Just wondering.

I'm sure there are federal statutes regarding violation of a restricted area. Trespassing, essentially.

unclepooty
05-29-2009, 10:43
:smiley36::smiley36::smiley36:
wrecklace endangerment :)

BubblesMcCoy
05-29-2009, 12:33
Great news! Now to try to book a trip.


check around before you book.

some dive operators are really jacking up their prices extra just to dive the Vandenberg.

For exmaple, Dive Key West charged something like $69 or $79 to dive a reef the same distance out, but they now charge $125 to dive the Vandenberg.

I'm not defending these guys at all, but is it possible that dive ops who offer wreck trips will have increased liability insurance premiums because of the increased dangers offering wreck dives (whether real or imagined)?

Just a thought.

BubblesMcCoy
05-29-2009, 12:35
What could they charge the charter with? Just wondering.

I would imagine that there is at least one statute that makes the violation of any order issued by the Coast Guard or other authority a criminal offense. Every state makes it a crime to disregard a street sign or other public safety information device be it a stop sign or a street closure sign.

mike_s
05-29-2009, 12:44
From the Vandenberg's Facebook:

The Vandenberg remains closed to visitors Thursday evening. The unexpected delay in the artificial reef's opening is being caused by two unstable satellite dishes on the ship's superstructure. They became dislodged during Wednesday's sinking. A Key West dive charter was criminally charged for taking divers to the site before it officially opened.So make sure it's open to divers as well! :)


What could they charge the charter with? Just wondering.

FWC charged them with a misdemeanor.

FWC defined it as a restricted area.


here's the catch, the Vandenberg is sunk outside of "State waters", so in reality FWC has no enforcement rights outside state waters (in the straits of Florida).

so I bet this charge will get thrown out as the US Coast Guard (federal) set up no restrictions since the state was doing it.
(so basically it slipped through the cracks).



wrecklace endangerment :)

:smilie39:






Great news! Now to try to book a trip.


check around before you book.

some dive operators are really jacking up their prices extra just to dive the Vandenberg.

For exmaple, Dive Key West charged something like $69 or $79 to dive a reef the same distance out, but they now charge $125 to dive the Vandenberg.

I'm not defending these guys at all, but is it possible that dive ops who offer wreck trips will have increased liability insurance premiums because of the increased dangers offering wreck dives (whether real or imagined)?

Just a thought.


I'm sure that is some bogus reason that some of the LDS's will give you but they have been offering trips to other wrecks in that area for years.

They will also prob say that the Vandenberg is an "entanglement hazzard", but remember they removed all those lose cables before she sank. Other wrecks in that area like the Cayman Salvager are just as dangerous (below decks) for entanglement, or more and dive ops have been running to these wrecks for years.

this is just simple profiterring . :smiley21:

UCFKnightDiver
05-29-2009, 15:10
doubt it, they all to my knowledge do different wrecks already, it looks like they are just trying to make a nice profit and do the whole oriskany price like thing, even though theres a reason the price to dive the oriskany is increased.

mulefeathers
05-30-2009, 10:30
Well here is my DA question of the week. If the wreck is only 6 miles out why charter IF you have access to a boat large enough to haul 3 or 4 divers? I know not every one has this option by I would think that would put a damper on charters charging more to dive the Vandenberg. I have a 19' CC and have carried it 15 - 20 miles out before. I thinking 6 would not be that big of a deal.

Nemrod
05-30-2009, 16:34
Well here is my DA question of the week. If the wreck is only 6 miles out why charter IF you have access to a boat large enough to haul 3 or 4 divers? I know not every one has this option by I would think that would put a damper on charters charging more to dive the Vandenberg. I have a 19' CC and have carried it 15 - 20 miles out before. I thinking 6 would not be that big of a deal.

As long as you adhere to anchoring regs I see no reason, I have gone that far and much further in my 19 foot BW.

However, I am on my way to the Vandenberg via Jeep in two weeks. Jeep is locked and loaded, departing one week.

N

blue37
05-30-2009, 20:35
Any idea when they may open it for diving????

CFDAlden
06-01-2009, 02:44
It's open now, according to their Facebook.

UCFKnightDiver
06-01-2009, 08:53
Well here is my DA question of the week. If the wreck is only 6 miles out why charter IF you have access to a boat large enough to haul 3 or 4 divers? I know not every one has this option by I would think that would put a damper on charters charging more to dive the Vandenberg. I have a 19' CC and have carried it 15 - 20 miles out before. I thinking 6 would not be that big of a deal.

the only thing I would think of is having a decent ladder, now this isnt critical I suppose but its a damn nice feature.

georoc01
06-01-2009, 09:55
I was thinking of doing this dive over Thanksgiving week. Given that I am coming from Colorado, I am looking at potential charters for this trip. I'll be taking the ferry down from Naples, as my parents are snowbirds, spending winters in SW Florida.

mulefeathers
06-01-2009, 10:00
Well here is my DA question of the week. If the wreck is only 6 miles out why charter IF you have access to a boat large enough to haul 3 or 4 divers? I know not every one has this option by I would think that would put a damper on charters charging more to dive the Vandenberg. I have a 19' CC and have carried it 15 - 20 miles out before. I thinking 6 would not be that big of a deal.

the only thing I would think of is having a decent ladder, now this isnt critical I suppose but its a damn nice feature.

This is one true fact. A nice ladder is a must. The first dive I made out of my boat was with out a ladder. THe next week there was one installed on back of the boat.

BubblesMcCoy
06-01-2009, 10:32
FWC charged them with a misdemeanor.

FWC defined it as a restricted area.


here's the catch, the Vandenberg is sunk outside of "State waters", so in reality FWC has no enforcement rights outside state waters (in the straits of Florida).

so I bet this charge will get thrown out as the US Coast Guard (federal) set up no restrictions since the state was doing it.
(so basically it slipped through the cracks).




This is possible, but the feds can delegate enforcement authority to the states. One example is the EPA, has licensing/enforcement agreements with a number of states by which the states do the dirty work and EPA stays out.

Even if the charges are bogus in the end, what a pita. I'm not sure I'd screw with it either way. Sometimes I find that you just have to let the underpaid, and often undereducated, bureaucrats feel like they've won sometimes to avoid having them become a total nuissance. IMHO.

mike_s
06-01-2009, 12:39
doubt it, they all to my knowledge do different wrecks already, it looks like they are just trying to make a nice profit and do the whole oriskany price like thing, even though theres a reason the price to dive the oriskany is increased.


I can understand the Orriskany trips going up some over regular "4 hour trips" as it's 22 miles out from the pass/inlet.

But the Vandenberg is only 6 miles out. It's the same distance to wrecks/reefs they are already running for regular rates.

jacking up the price for the Vandenberg and it being about the same distance out is just they screwing the paying diver out of more money.... :smiley21:


I was thinking of doing this dive over Thanksgiving week. Given that I am coming from Colorado, I am looking at potential charters for this trip. I'll be taking the ferry down from Naples, as my parents are snowbirds, spending winters in SW Florida.


that ferry still running?

Mike Ange
06-17-2009, 14:46
FWC charged them with a misdemeanor.

FWC defined it as a restricted area.


here's the catch, the Vandenberg is sunk outside of "State waters", so in reality FWC has no enforcement rights outside state waters (in the straits of Florida).

so I bet this charge will get thrown out as the US Coast Guard (federal) set up no restrictions since the state was doing it.
(so basically it slipped through the cracks).




This is possible, but the feds can delegate enforcement authority to the states. One example is the EPA, has licensing/enforcement agreements with a number of states by which the states do the dirty work and EPA stays out.

Even if the charges are bogus in the end, what a pita. I'm not sure I'd screw with it either way. Sometimes I find that you just have to let the underpaid, and often undereducated, bureaucrats feel like they've won sometimes to avoid having them become a total nuissance. IMHO.


Actually the situation with the Vandenberg is a bit more complicated or simplified depending on where you sit. The Vandy is actually in the city of Key West. The piece of bottom where it sits is in the NOAA Marine Sanctuary and NOAA has leased the site of the sinking to the city of Key West on a long term lease. This technically makes the site city propery and in fact the local police do have jurisdiction over the wreck site. It seems apparent that this would also extend jurisdiction to all state authorities and to Monroe County as well.

I know this because I was in charge of the technical dive teams clearing the wreck before it could be open. We actually used the city police to provide site security for us while we were re-securing the dish antenae to make the site safe the 2 days after the sinking. (see details on the sinking surveys and the dive site at Seaduction.com)

Safe Diving,

bsktcase93
07-06-2009, 21:30
whats the going price for a dive trip to the Vandenberg

mike_s
07-07-2009, 12:28
Actually the situation with the Vandenberg is a bit more complicated or simplified depending on where you sit. The Vandy is actually in the city of Key West. The piece of bottom where it sits is in the NOAA Marine Sanctuary and NOAA has leased the site of the sinking to the city of Key West on a long term lease. This technically makes the site city propery and in fact the local police do have jurisdiction over the wreck site. It seems apparent that this would also extend jurisdiction to all state authorities and to Monroe County as well.

I know this because I was in charge of the technical dive teams clearing the wreck before it could be open. We actually used the city police to provide site security for us while we were re-securing the dish antenae to make the site safe the 2 days after the sinking. (see details on the sinking surveys and the dive site at Seaduction.com)

Safe Diving,


Hmm... that's the first I've heard that.

why would Key West have to lease the site?

I mean none of the other wreck sites are "leased" from the government or NOAA?

just because the KW police boats were there doesn't mean they have jurisdiction to write a ticket. Site security is just that.... security. heck they could have "mall cops" out there in a boat that said "SECURITY" on the side of it and it would have been a security presence.

However, I wasn't there, and as you stated that you were in charge of the dive teams clearing the wreck, so I'll have to respectfully yield to your expertise on the site and what you saw there.






whats the going price for a dive trip to the Vandenberg


depends on the shop. some are "price gouging" for the Vandy site over other wreck sites that are equal distance out. some aren't. do your homework and you'll see.

Mike Ange
01-03-2010, 23:09
,[/quote]


Hmm... that's the first I've heard that.

why would Key West have to lease the site?

I mean none of the other wreck sites are "leased" from the government or NOAA?

just because the KW police boats were there doesn't mean they have jurisdiction to write a ticket. Site security is just that.... security. heck they could have "mall cops" out there in a boat that said "SECURITY" on the side of it and it would have been a security presence.

However, I wasn't there, and as you stated that you were in charge of the dive teams clearing the wreck, so I'll have to respectfully yield to your expertise on the site and what you saw there.



[quote]

Sorry so long to respond to this - but I have not been on the site in a while. I can assure you there were no mall cops in the detailed law enforcement and security briefings conducted by FWC, Coast Guard and the dozens of other enforcement agencies involved in the sinking. I am also quite sure that the Special Operations teams they had in place for site security and to take charge of any unexploded ordinance we recovered were not from your corner mall. The site was populated with 44 high explosive charges and Homeland security was a concern that was being met in a very professional and overt manner by a number of state, federal and local agencies.

Additionally - I have no idea what the provisions were for other sites. However, as a project supporter on the inside of this project for over 10 years, a part of the public safety teams operating in the 45 days pre-sinking, the day of sinking and for 2 days post sinking I am intimately aware of the jurisdictional protocols for operational security on this project. As you might guess by virtue of the fact that I was selected to lead this team - I also have an extensive background that makes me intimately aware of the intricacies of both operational procedures and the legalities of jurisdictional/venue issues.

Safe Diving,

TwIsTeD
11-12-2010, 09:46
I was able to dive the Vandy on Oct 28Th, 2010. This was my second wreck dive. I did no real penetration as that is beyond my certification level. I really enjoyed these dives. Kind of makes me want to get a wreck cert. so I can go inside.....

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31461212&id=1541437682

BSea
11-12-2010, 09:59
I was able to dive the Vandy on Oct 28Th, 2010. This was my second wreck dive. I did no real penetration as that is beyond my certification level. I really enjoyed these dives. Kind of makes me want to get a wreck cert. so I can go inside.....

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31461212&id=1541437682Just a little FYI. A wreck certification doesn't certify you for penetrating a wreck. On the other hand, the Vandy like the Spiegle Grove aren't true wrecks, but artificial reefs. I know on the SG, they have a permanent line in the upper deck with all the hatches off. You are never more than about 5 or 6 feet from natural light. But before I get a lecture, I'm not approving or disapproving of people that go through those areas. Just pointing out some features.

TwIsTeD
11-12-2010, 10:57
Well I guess that was a bad assumption on my part. I have never even read about what a wreck cert. was good for.

I have never been to the SG. I do know that the day I was at the Vandy, I would not want to go inside as it was very overcast and vis was only about 30'. I did look in every opening I came to. I was surprised at the amount of silt already present. The vandy is huge and it is my opinion that you could get lost easily if inside. The main levels seem to be about 100' deep, so that makes for a pretty short dive for rec divers like myself. Having said that it was a cool dive. Something different than the two hundred angelfish I've seen.