PDA

View Full Version : Suunto Cobra depth and time wrong



Skred
04-30-2009, 14:25
On a recent dive, my wife's Suunto Cobra wigged out and forced us to abort. When we surfaced, the computer read that she had been at 6 feet for 5 minutes...obviously wrong since the max depth on the dive was 75ft.

She employed backup measures for a subsequent dive but took the Cobra down again just to see if it would behave. Not only was it wrong again, but it continuously rebooted at depth.

We sent the computer off to Suunto and I have my fingers crossed that it won't cost more than it's worth to repair. Has anyone had a similar experience? If so, can you relate your experience so I might get an idea on repairability?

Thanks.

CC1020
05-01-2009, 11:08
I was diving in Bahamas on Blackbeard's boat, and had mine reading 0 feet when I was at about 12 feet. There does seem to be a bad batch of depth sensors, and mine had to be sent back to the factory for repair. It worked fine for the rest of the trip, which was lucky for me. Good luck :)

DMWiz
05-01-2009, 12:18
On a recent dive, my wife's Suunto Cobra wigged out and forced us to abort. When we surfaced, the computer read that she had been at 6 feet for 5 minutes...obviously wrong since the max depth on the dive was 75ft.

She employed backup measures for a subsequent dive but took the Cobra down again just to see if it would behave. Not only was it wrong again, but it continuously rebooted at depth.

We sent the computer off to Suunto and I have my fingers crossed that it won't cost more than it's worth to repair. Has anyone had a similar experience? If so, can you relate your experience so I might get an idea on repairability?

Thanks.

I've seen this happen before, but those repairs have always been covered under warranty.

How old is your Cobra?

Skred
05-01-2009, 12:20
It's about 5 years old and this is the first issue I've had with it. Before I sent it to Suunto, I checked the contacts on the depth sensor to make sure they weren't corroded and that there was no salt buildup on them. They looked pretty good so I'm guessing that the sensor itself may be bad.

Mtrewyn
05-02-2009, 16:39
That sounds like a warranty issue to me! 5 years or 2 days I think that should be covered, that does not sound like something that they could pass off as "user error" or "abuse"

CPTOZZY
05-02-2009, 18:44
On a recent dive, my wife's Suunto Cobra wigged out and forced us to abort. When we surfaced, the computer read that she had been at 6 feet for 5 minutes...obviously wrong since the max depth on the dive was 75ft.

She employed backup measures for a subsequent dive but took the Cobra down again just to see if it would behave. Not only was it wrong again, but it continuously rebooted at depth.

We sent the computer off to Suunto and I have my fingers crossed that it won't cost more than it's worth to repair. Has anyone had a similar experience? If so, can you relate your experience so I might get an idea on repairability?

Thanks.

Was that when we were in the Keys ??

Skred
05-03-2009, 07:07
Was that when we were in the Keys ??

Yes, it was. The computer went out on a dive on Conch Wall the 2nd day we were there and she dove the rest of that week with a backup unit.

nuibe
09-01-2009, 21:55
The first Cobra failed after 56 dives. I sent it off to Suunto for repair, outside the warranty. They verified it was bad and pro-rated the cost of repair. I had to pay $350. While the first Cobra was at Suunto, I purchased another Cobra so I could continue diving. It took Suunto 4 weeks to put another Cobra in my hand. 53 dives later and the replacement failed (reading 30ft off. At 65 ft, it was reading 35 ft)! So far it appears my Second Cobra is still working with 30 dives on it. I must say I've been pretty underwhelmed with Suunto customer service and even more frustrated with the Cobra. I love it when it functions but hate it when it aborts my dive. BTW, I baby my dive gear. No film, grit, scale or anything on my gear after cleaning.

Not a battery problem. I replaced the battery even though the Cobra read 4 bars. Same depth error.

So all in all, I'm on my 3rd Cobra and will purchase a different computer as a back up.

Hope nobody has the same bad luck as me.

mitsuguy
09-02-2009, 00:44
this is actually somewhat of a common issue with some Suunto computers...

just had a friend in the shop that was doing a deco dive, using his D9 as a backup to his bottom timer - one glance showed 189 feet on both, next glance showed 189 feet on the bottom timer, 265 feet on the Suunto... next dive 189 on the bottom timer, 320 feet on the Suunto... He aborted the dive just to be safe, but even on the surface, there was clearly a depth issue with his computer...

Not saying any other manufacturer is better though - dive computers are great little devices until you have to actually take them diving a lot...

kroorda
12-21-2009, 20:34
You are describing a very common problem. Any computer that has 'common' problems is not a computer that I would use to insure my safety. There are too many GOOD computers available, so there is no reason to continue to use a Suunto. Perhaps a person can't afford a good replacement computer. But, one would be cheap compared to a stay in a medical facility, a possible medivac, and a decompression chamber. It amazes me at how many people keep using their Suunto's despite all the reported problems so many others have had. Many people feel that "It won't happen to me". Are you really willing to be your life, your safety, or, at the very least, your dive trip on a computer that is known and documented to have problems? Get one of ANY other brand.

mitsuguy
12-21-2009, 23:20
You are describing a very common problem. Any computer that has 'common' problems is not a computer that I would use to insure my safety. There are too many GOOD computers available, so there is no reason to continue to use a Suunto. Perhaps a person can't afford a good replacement computer. But, one would be cheap compared to a stay in a medical facility, a possible medivac, and a decompression chamber. It amazes me at how many people keep using their Suunto's despite all the reported problems so many others have had. Many people feel that "It won't happen to me". Are you really willing to be your life, your safety, or, at the very least, your dive trip on a computer that is known and documented to have problems? Get one of ANY other brand.

but at the same time, you shouldn't HAVE to HAVE a computer...

we should all know the tables and where we are in the course of a dive so that if something went awry, we could continue using tables, or ascend and know how relatively safe we should be...

Even those that don't have a backup depth gauge should always be with their buddy, and hopefully they don't have a computer / gauge failure as well...


Now, all that being said, it is crazy how many reports of the depth gauge issue I've heard with the Suunto's...

Skred
12-22-2009, 08:04
We did in fact replace the wife's Suunto with an Oceanic Geo. Soon after that, I retired my Cobra and switched to a Geo as well and we are both very pleased with our decision to switch.

As for the Suuntos, they were very good reliable computers for many years and a couple a hundred dives. No regrets there.

The primary reason for the change boiled down to $$$. It was just more cost effective to go with something other than another Suunto. I also wanted to take the opportunity to go to a less conservative algorithm.

kroorda, I've got 1 functional, semi-retired Cobra that I might be willing to part with...I'm guessing you're not interested? :smiley36:

RogerAg
12-22-2009, 10:21
I have over 500 dives on my cobra 1 with no problems. 2 years ago I bought my wife a cobra 2 and have had so many problems with it that my wife took my cobra:smiley21: and gave me hers:smiley11:

The Cobra 2 has been in the shop twice and each time they say that there is nothing wrong with it.

One problem with it is; sometimes it will not show psi. Suunto said that showing psi is not important, I say it is.

TJDiver
12-22-2009, 10:45
I have over 500 dives on my cobra 1 with no problems. 2 years ago I bought my wife a cobra 2 and have had so many problems with it that my wife took my cobra:smiley21: and gave me hers:smiley11:

The Cobra 2 has been in the shop twice and each time they say that there is nothing wrong with it.

One problem with it is; sometimes it will not show psi. Suunto said that showing psi is not important, I say it is.

Kinda makes ya wonder if the folks at Suunto actually dive doesn't it. :smiley29:

dkh6070
12-22-2009, 13:56
One problem with it is; sometimes it will not show psi. Suunto said that showing psi is not important, I say it is.

Breathing is not important? nice:smiley29:. I have a suunto, although not Air intergrated. I've heard very good things about the geeko for a starter computer, so I purchased one. Only have about 35 dives on it so far. Does well but have nothing to compare it too.

RogerAg
12-22-2009, 14:19
I forgot to add this thread so that you can read all my posts of the Suunto Cobra 2. As you read it you will notice that the consensus of everyone but me was; knowing what my psi was not as important as knowing O2.
I might also note that the Cobra 1 was purchased 2nd hand for $300. And since then I have put over 500 dives on it with only replacing batteries and Display Shields.
The Cobra 2 has less then 50 dives and I bought new for about $700. and has been in the shop 2 times.

Go to:
Suunto Cobra 2 in Nitrox Mode

http://forum.scubatoys.com/computers-gauges/24600-suunto-cobra-2-nitrox-mode.html

Mtrewyn
12-22-2009, 19:15
I have heard that the Cobra 2 is a pos, I've used my cobra1 for around 100-150 dives and it is fine, the ones that I have seen with problems are ones that students drop, kick, put tanks on, or otherwise abuse.

I am sure that they go bad even with normal use, I just have not seen one go out that way, yet, but I'm sure they do.

It makes me wonder about other computers??? Surely they go bad too, Its electronic gear in water, the two sound like an oxymoron to me.

dkh6070
12-23-2009, 07:35
It makes me wonder about other computers??? Surely they go bad too, Its electronic gear in water, the two sound like an oxymoron to me.

I said the same thing when I first started diving. Bad idea putting a electronic device in water. Sure enough, on my first dives after a $300 computer, it flooded. Turns out the battery cover was not on correctly but my LDS took the the blame and replaced it. When they demo the unit they said it was fool proof and ready to go. The guy even qouted himself when I took it back.

I love it when people own up to their mistakes. Easy to accept problems as a natural part of life when you can respect the people you are dealing with.

thesmoothdome
12-23-2009, 11:45
I understand Roger's frustration with the Cobra 2, but after looking at all the facts as presented by Roger, the frustration was because of misuse, not because of a faulty computer. As for incorrect readings on the original Cobra, I'm sure there have been plenty of cases. I'm also sure that there's not a computer brand out there that hasn't had failures. I've seen an Orca Edge (when new and cutting edge) die mid dive, a US Diver crack and flood when the thermocline dropped the water temp from 49-42 degrees and the Oceanic DataMax sport lock up in decompression situations. I don't think you can condemn Suunto for having a small percentage of failures. That's why we're supposed to carry backups and have procedures in place for failures.

RogerAg
12-23-2009, 15:43
I understand Roger's frustration with the Cobra 2, but after looking at all the facts as presented by Roger, the frustration was because of misuse, not because of a faulty computer.

You are correct it was not a faulty computer! It was faulty information from Suunto.

Nowhere in the manual does it say While in Mix 2, 02 will flash and psi will not show!.

I spent hours with tech support and at no time did they say: While in Mix 2, 02 will flash and psi will not show!.

The dive shop that sold me the Cobra 2 called their tech support and at no time did they say: While in Mix 2, 02 will flash and psi will not show!.

The dive shop near where I live called tech support and was told that I had violate my PO, they did not say: While in Mix 2, 02 will flash and psi will not show!.

The Cobra 2 was sent in for repairs along with a note explaining what was happening, each time it was returned as nothing wrong, but at no time did the repair person say; While in Mix 2, 02 will flash and psi will not show!.

Only after the Cobra 2 was sent back to my dive shop the 2nd time with the note that nothing was wrong, the dive shop owner took the cobra 2 into his pool to check it out. He then called his tech support again, he finally got the answer that explains the whole problem. While in Mix 2, 02 will flash and psi will not show!.

All this caused a lot of
Frustration, (dealing with a problem with no answer)
Time, (I was on the phone quite often, I calculate Hrs.)
Money. (Suunto charged each time I sent the Cobra 2 in for repairs, also shipping.

thesmoothdome
12-23-2009, 16:15
Roger, I know that you're unhappy with Suunto, but as we discussed in the other thread, the computer acted correctly. There is absolutely no reason to show PSI in Mix 2 since Mix 2 would be a seperate bottle that isn't attached to the pressure gauge. The computer continues to do its job, which is to calculate nitrogen absorption based on the numbers you provide. It could be potential fatal if you continued to view the PSI to a tank you're no longer breathing from and believed it was showing information from the 2nd tank. As I mentioned in the other thread, the manual explains that you have the ability to scroll through the information and see the remaining tank pressure, but since you're no longer breathing from that tank, it is no longer vital information.

IMHO, while the Suunto manual might not be perfectly clear, it does provide the information you needed. I have to question why the shop owner doesn't understand how to use the gear he is selling. I worked in the industry when I first started instructing and knew every piece of gear my shop sold intimately. It's just good business practice.

As for the frustration, if I could discern the information from the user's manual, I would certainly hope that Suunto customer service or your dive shop could understand it as well. Time? See above. Money? The computer operated correctly. Either you didn't explain the issue to your dive shop clearly or they didn't have a clue. In either case, I'd discuss the situation with your dive shop owner. It's not Suunto's fault the computer was misused or it's functions misunderstood. I'm sorry. I know you're extremely unhappy with the computer and I've done my best to break down how it works for you. I hope that you learn to enjoy the computer or find another that meets your needs.

I have no ties whatsoever to Suunto. I've just been a satisfied user of their computers for the last 15 years or so.

Mtrewyn
12-23-2009, 17:20
I love it when people own up to their mistakes. Easy to accept problems as a natural part of life when you can respect the people you are dealing with.

I wish more people would do this!! The Respect level would go through the roof, If people would just own up mistakes when they happen!

RogerAg
12-24-2009, 11:53
New thread:
What if Suunto made Cars!

This is a luxury 4 door family sedan that is really sleek looking and looks like a snake so it is called the Cobra. It is loaded will bells and whistles. Even the seats are different, bucket seats in front and back, but when I press one of 3 backseat buttons one of the seats turn into a “baby carrier seat” my 3 month old rides in the carseat. Button 2 changes another bucket seat to a jumper seat that my 9 year old son sits in. In fact this car is state of the art and has every feature under the sun.

One feature I never saw before is it has two gas tanks, the idea behind this is I can put gas with 2 different Octain amounts, one for city driving and one for the open road.
I get ready for a long road trip so I fill up Tank 1, 87 Octain and Tank 2, 100 Octain! Before leaving the station the Cobra even asks me to type in the Octain levels in each tank.
Off we go and before long we are on the open road on cruse control, Tank 2 is forgotten. After some time we come to a rest stop, we talk about the trip, have a snack, every thing is going along grate, this is a really grate car! Just before we leave the rest stop I remember Tank 2!
So I flip the switch from Tank 1 to Tank 2 and the GAS GAGE shows FULL. Off we go on cruse control and everything is really smooth until my wife saids :fam0209: “What is that flashing light on the dash?" I look down and where the GAS GAGE should be instead there is a flashing light, it is flashing off and on “OC 100”! So we pull over and I get out to check things out. I used to know a lot about cars (I even rebuilt a 1952 Coaster, for those that don’t know what Coaster is, its short for International Harvester. I look under the hood and I don’t recognize anything, Its so foreign that there is a large sticker that saids that only a authorized repair man past this point. I then walk around the car and kick all the tires, somewhat frustrated I get back in the car dumfounded knowing that we are in the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE! I start the car and it fires up I then notice that the flashing has stopped and the GAS GAGE reads 1/2 Tank. So off we go but in a short time I then notice that the GAS GAGE goes away and it starts reading “OC 100”! All during the trip all I notice is that flashing off and on “OC 100”!
We did notice that if we had to slow down to 10 miles a hour the flashing would stop and I could then see the GAS GAGE, but when we speeded up again the GAS GAGE would go away and the flashing “OC 100” would start again. During the trip my wife started to change the radio station and suddenly the flashing stopped and we now saw that we had 1/4 Tank of gas. But the flashing started 2 seconds later. Each time we pressed the Radio button we could then see how much Gas was in the tank.
When we got home I called the dealership where We bought the car and they said:
SILLY ME! :idea: Its designed that way, You don’t need to see how much gas you have in the tank! Its far more important to know what Octain you put in the tank! After all you might FORGET!

thesmoothdome
12-24-2009, 12:24
Roger, simply put, if you didn't want/need that feature, you shouldn't have bought the model that came with it. This is a matter of you buying something and not understanding what its use is for. I'm sorry you can't let it go. Everything you have related to us comes down to operator error and an inability to accept that. Every time I've bothered to explain it, you rationalize your misunderstandings with the tired argument "It's flawed and its someone else's fault." It's not. Your basic misunderstanding of the use of the Mix2 feature has lead you down this road. The manual is not at fault. I showed you down to the page where to find the information. I and other have explained what the Mix2 feature does and provided rationalization for not continuously showing PSI while utilizing that feature. Nothing seems to help you get over your frustration because the computer doesn't do what you want it to. In a nut shell, Suunto has to protect you from you. Already, you're utilizing a piece of equipment that you don't understand in the wrong way and you're creating a dangerous and potentially fatal situation for yourself. They have taken steps to protect people from making erroneous assumptions. Unfortunately, they can't limit who they sell their products to and it up the buyer to learn to operate their computer within the boundaries the manufactuer has established.

Again, I'm sorry you're frustrated. I'm sorry you misunderstood the use of the computer and I'm sorry you continue to vent that frustration regardless of how much assistance the folks here have attempted to provide.

RogerAg
12-24-2009, 16:28
[QUOTE=thesmoothdome;354155]Roger, simply put, if you didn't want/need that feature, you shouldn't have bought the model that came with it. This is a matter of you buying something and not understanding what its use is for. I'm sorry you can't let it go. Everything you have related to us comes down to operator error and an inability to accept that. Every time I've bothered to explain it, you rationalize your misunderstandings with the tired argument "It's flawed and its someone else's fault." It's not. Your basic misunderstanding of the use of the Mix2 feature has lead you down this road. The manual is not at fault. I showed you down to the page where to find the information. I and other have explained what the Mix2 feature does and provided rationalization for not continuously showing PSI while utilizing that feature. Nothing seems to help you get over your frustration because the computer doesn't do what you want it to. In a nut shell, Suunto has to protect you from you. Already, you're utilizing a piece of equipment that you don't understand in the wrong way and you're creating a dangerous and potentially fatal situation for yourself. They have taken steps to protect people from making erroneous assumptions. Unfortunately, they can't limit who they sell their products to and it up the buyer to learn to operate their computer within the boundaries the manufactuer has established.

Again, I'm sorry you're frustrated. I'm sorry you misunderstood the use of the computer and I'm sorry you continue to vent that frustration regardless of how much assistance the folks here have attempted to provide.[/QUOT
E]


All I can say is you must be a dealer for Suunto!

In both threads you have defended some Idiot that decided not to show psi in mix 2.
In the other thread you first stated that someone could get killed
in a other quote you stated
I don't think you can condemn Suunto for having a small percentage of failures.

You might be right!
They just did a recall of baby car seats, they should not have worried after all only 2 or 3 babies died.
They just had a recall of a car where the accelerator stuck. First they said it was the fault of the user, using the wrong floor mats. But now we know the real problem. Its under the hood, but why worry, with thousands of that car sold only a few died.

You are forgetting in the first thread
Suunto Cobra 2 in Nitrox Mode

That is was John Henry that asked the question about not showing psi.
And until I spoke up with the answer no one else knew why.


Roger, simply put, if you didn't want/need that feature, you shouldn't have bought the model that came with it.
Ok maybe your right, I don't use BAR, I don't use Meters, I don't use 24 hr. time. Sell me a dive computer that does not have those features. I can't hear so sell me a computer that does not have a alarm or tones.
I understand in the real world that there will be features that I don't want or need. If your sitting at a computer right now, Is there features you don't use or want or need?


This is a matter of you buying something and not understanding what its use is
Up until this time I have had 3 dive computers, the latest one is the Cobra 1. I did not want another dive computer BUT,
I forgot my Wife's Wedding Anniversary! We were in Kona Hawaii at the time and she bought me a real nice Hawaiian necktie.
It was heartbreaking to see the look on my brides face when I was empty handed. So the first thing I did was make reservations at our favorite restaurant for later that night ($120.00 a plate.) Then I took her shopping, (any were she wanted to go.) She said that she wanted a new dive computer, so to the dive shop we went. The Dive shop had 6 different dive computers under glass including a Cobra 1 and a Cobra 2. If I was buying for myself I would have looked at the one that had a sending unit on the first stage and the computer was on the wrist. But it was not for me. I explained why she should get the Cobra 1, Because I had one I could always help her if there was something that she did not understand. But she wanted the Cobra 2 because it had a electronic compass. That’s a whole other problem. As it turns out she can't activate the electronic compass because she has arthritics in her fingers and she simply isn’t strong enough to press and hold the button.

To make her happy she now uses the Cobra 1 and I have a Cobra 2.

You are correct when you You stated
r basic misunderstanding of the use of the Mix2 feature has lead you down this road
But the term that has always been used in these threads is "2 gas mixing or 2 gas switching" That term is not in any of my dive manuals and it is not in the Cobra 2 manual. I have looked in my open water manual, my advanced manual and in no dive computer manual, how was I to know what that meant. To me "2 gas switching" is on the surface, and to you, "2 gas switching" is done only underwater.

There is NO GOOD REASON NOT TO SHOW PSI ON THE DISPLAY WHILE IN MIX 2.

When we hook up the computer to a PC the breathing rate is displayed even though I was in Mix 2. That means that the Cobra 2 keeps track of psi no mater which mix we are in, so why not display it!

So what real good was the Cobra 2 designed not to show psi on the screen, while in mix 2?
What real good was the Cobra 2 designed to show 02 constantly in a flashing mode while in mix 2?

Was it because it was a IDIOT that designed it!

Smashee
12-24-2009, 16:48
<snipped>

Mate, relax. This sort of thing can't be doing your health any good.
Chill, go for a dive and let your rage levels drop, eh?

thesmoothdome
12-24-2009, 17:28
Roger, get rid of the computer and get off the soapbox. No idiot designed it. Suunto's been making computers in various areas for a very long time. You used it improperly and still refuse to look at yourself for an answer. I'm pretty much done trying to explain things in a quiet rational manner when you're busy screaming back. You used it wrong. You don't understand it. You don't like it. Get rid of it. Most of all, stop complaining about it! The computer works the way it was designed, and as near as I can figure, the way it should. Your inability to accept personal responsibility scares me a bit, but as long as we're not sharing a dive, I can live with it. Can you?

RogerAg
12-24-2009, 17:36
<snipped>

Mate, relax. This sort of thing can't be doing your health any good.
Chill, go for a dive and let your rage levels drop, eh?:comfort:

Ya I know Sorry about that. :sick:
I tried to exchange the Cobra 2 for a Cobra 1 straight across I would eat the extra cost but the dive shop said that my cobra 2 was now used.

I asked Suunto the same thing, it would not cost Suunto much, for some unknown reason Suunto said NO!
Now all they get from me is bad press. :smilie_fluester:

mitsuguy
12-24-2009, 20:24
Um, while I understand the rationale for showing the mix when on your second gas, I don't understand the rationale for not showing pressure as a primary or even all the time...

If I was doing a two gas dive, I would want to be able to switch from gas one to gas two and it show me different pressures related to how much gas is left in that cylinder... If I was then unsure which mix I had told the computer I was breathing, I could then press a button to ensure that it was on the correct setting.

I want to see very few things on the primary display of my computer, but it should always show dive time remaining (based on NDL's), elapsed dive time and current depth. For those computers with integrated air pressure, I believe air pressure is a quick glance type measurement that I want to see 100% of the time as well, no matter how important something else it thinks I want to see is...

thesmoothdome
12-24-2009, 20:45
Um, while I understand the rationale for showing the mix when on your second gas, I don't understand the rationale for not showing pressure as a primary or even all the time...

If I was doing a two gas dive, I would want to be able to switch from gas one to gas two and it show me different pressures related to how much gas is left in that cylinder... If I was then unsure which mix I had told the computer I was breathing, I could then press a button to ensure that it was on the correct setting.

I want to see very few things on the primary display of my computer, but it should always show dive time remaining (based on NDL's), elapsed dive time and current depth. For those computers with integrated air pressure, I believe air pressure is a quick glance type measurement that I want to see 100% of the time as well, no matter how important something else it thinks I want to see is...

The Cobra 2 does not show air pressure on Mix 2 because it does not read the PSI on Mix 2. You need a seperate SPG to do that. Because of that, it defaults to PO2 so divers don't misread the PSI on the tank they are breathing from. It does allow you to scroll back to see remaining PSI in the tank it's connected to though. If anything, it's done to prevent mistakes, not to take away vital information.

mitsuguy
12-25-2009, 03:12
The Cobra 2 does not show air pressure on Mix 2 because it does not read the PSI on Mix 2. You need a seperate SPG to do that. Because of that, it defaults to PO2 so divers don't misread the PSI on the tank they are breathing from. It does allow you to scroll back to see remaining PSI in the tank it's connected to though. If anything, it's done to prevent mistakes, not to take away vital information.

ahhhhh, making sense now... for some reason I had thought hoseless wireless AI, not hosed AI...

RogerAg
12-25-2009, 15:53
The Cobra 2 does not show air pressure on Mix 2 because it does not read the PSI on Mix 2. You need a seperate SPG to do that. Because of that, it defaults to PO2 so divers don't misread the PSI on the tank they are breathing from. It does allow you to scroll back to see remaining PSI in the tank it's connected to though. If anything, it's done to prevent mistakes, not to take away vital information.

Wrong, Wrong How could you be so Wrong?

The Cobra 2 Clearly states on page 6: "WARNING, NOT FOR PROFESSIONAL USE! Suunto dive computers are intended for recreational use only."

Switching gases on the surface is part of recreational diving. In fact if we want to be tactical "every diver on every dive switches gases between dives.
But,
If you are switching gases underwater then maybe it is YOU that is misusing the Cobra 2.

The Cobra 2 Clearly states on page 7: "WARNING, DIVES THAT REQUIRE DECOMPRESSION STOPS ARE NOT RECOMMENDENDED"

If you are doing decompression dives then maybe it is YOU that is misusing the Cobra 2.


The Cobra 2 does not show air pressure on Mix 2 because it does not read the PSI on Mix 2.
Wrong again, The Cobra does show air pressure on Mix 2 you just have to press the down button. However if you are not breathing from the same tank that the Cobra 2 is attached then the "Suunto Dive Manager will not accurately record your breathing rate.


it defaults to PO2 so divers don't misread the PSI on the tank they are breathing from
So what you are saying is: Divers that have the extra training that is above recreational diving are too DUMB to see that they are breathing off a second tank? Maybe if they reached that senility its time to stop diving.

Same quote
it defaults to PO2 so divers don't misread the PSI on the tank they are breathing from
Not remembering O2 is valid. And I understand that I am not the brightest penny in the roll, so this is what I do.
When I rent NITROX, I test the tank and then ask the dive shop for a NITROX sticker, I have found that most shops don't have one. So I put two pieces of masking tape on the back of the tank where it can be seen while diving. The top piece of masking tape will have my name on it. And the other piece of masking tape will have the O2 and Maximum Depth I plan NOT to exceed. When I’m diving my dive partner can clearly see my planed maximum depth and if I forget then he or she can tap me on the shoulder to remind me that I am too deep.

I recommend to the divers that have the extra training that is above recreational diving that are too DUMB to see what tank they are breathing off to do the same. First of all they will see their name, maybe that way they will remember. And they will see their O2! Granted because the O2 is printed on a piece of masking tape it will not flash off and on.


The computer works the way it was designed, and as near as I can figure, the way it should. Your inability to accept personal responsibility scares me a bit, but as long as we're not sharing a dive,
I'm sorry that you feel that way, But what scares me, is a diver that does not know what tank he is breathing on and what O2 is in the tank he is breathing on, and if he does not know what his psi is then that might ruin the dive for everyone.

I am also sorry that I said "a IDIOT designed it!" I should listen to my wife, She said that it was designed by a Man!

thesmoothdome
12-25-2009, 16:17
Roger, you're going back and rehashing the same arguments and it's again full of faulty logic. I'm sorry. I can't continue to beat my head against a rock here. Have you noticed that you have not been able to persuade your dive shop or Suunto to accept your line of thinking either?

Please be safe out there.

RogerAg
12-25-2009, 18:25
Roger, you're going back and rehashing the same arguments and it's again full of faulty logic. I'm sorry. I can't continue to beat my head against a rock here. Have you noticed that you have not been able to persuade your dive shop or Suunto to accept your line of thinking either?

Please be safe out there.

No I have NOT persuaded my dive shops because I have not tried. I have also NOT tried to persuaded Suunto that to accept my line of thinking.

You should remember from all the threads that my complaint was with Suunto not so much the Cobra 2.

When I first found out there was a problem I did what I thought a prudent person would do.
I contacted Suunto Phone Support. They had many suggestions NO answer.
While in Hawaii while diving I would try a suggestion that Suunto Phone Support would make. I would then call again saying that, that did not work. I always told them that "the problem was while I was in mix 2. One suggestion Suunto Phone Support made was "Change mix 1 to 32% and mix 2 to 21%. The next day I called back to say "No psi in mix 2.

I came home from Hawaii and Pointed out during a dive club meeting that I was having problems with the Cobra 2. One of our members is a dive shop owner, She told me to bring the Cobra to her. I did and after explaining again what was wrong she asked her inhouse repair guy and he said that they should send it in for repairs. When it came back there was a note stating that there was nothing wrong!

The next time I went to use the Cobra 2 the same thing was happening so I called my home dive shop and she told me to write it all down and she will sent the my note along with the cobra back for repairs. I wrote a 2 page letter explaining all the problems I was happening and what suggestions Suunto Phone Support had made.

When the Cobra 2 came back from Suunto Authorized Repair, The shop called me and said it was back and again nothing was wrong. The Dive shop has a indoor pool so I came to the shop prepared to see.

After jumping in the water the problem started just as I reach the bottom (about 10 feet). When I told the shop owner she called Suunto Phone Support and could not get a answer. About that time the other owner of the shop came in and asked us what the problem was, so we told him. He then took the Cobra 2 into the pool.
When He got out of the pool he called Suunto Phone Support, (however He had a different number then I did) Only after some time did it come out that "the Cobra 2 was not designed to show psi while in mix 2.

Now what is a person to do? When I did not fully understand something that was happening with Cobra 2 I called the experts at Suunto. If the Suunto Phone Support had been competent in the first place, I would not have been beating my head against rocks! When that did not help we sent the Cobra 2 to the experts at Suunto. The experts let me down. And so did the MAN that designed it.


Added statement

Before someone saids that I didn’t fully explain my problem with Suunto Phone Support Persons, let me explain something.
First of all this happened over a period of 1 1/2 years. That’s right I have been beating my head against rocks for 1 1/2 years.
Second is I know how to ask questions to Phone Support Persons Because I have and I still am a Phone Support Person. I answer Landlord Tenant Questions pertaining to Washington State Landlord Tenant Laws. I just looked over my contract and it started June 1998.

The service is free and if anyone needs help they can phone 360-693-2272.

RogerAg
12-26-2009, 08:59
Two-Gas Switching

In the Suunto Cobra 2 User's Guide it states as was pointed out to me:

6.2.4. Gas change and multiple breathing gas mixes
The Suunto Cobra2 allows gas changes to enabled gas mixes during the dive. Gas changes
are made by following the procedure below:


CHANGING GAS MIX. SCROLL
THROUGH ENABLED MIXES BY
PRESSING THE UP OR DOWN
BUTTONS. SELECT NEW MIX BY
PRESSING THE SELECT BUTTON.
NOTE
Mix number, O2%, and PO2 for the mixes are shown when scrolling.
If the set PO2 limit is exceeded , it will be shown with the PO2 value
blinking. The dive computer does not allow you to change to a gas
whose set PO2 is exceeded. In such a case, the mix is shown but
cannot be selected.

NOTE
If no button is pressed in 15 seconds, the dive computer will go back
to the dive display without changing the gas mix. Upon ascent, the
computer prompts you to change gas when the PO2 level you have
set for the next mix allows a gas change. The prompt is an audible 3

beeps and the current O2 mix starts to blink.

So where is the term "Two Gas Switching"? I found it in the Suunto's website describing the Cobra 2 and Cobra 3. I could not find that term in any of my manuals, however I decided to do some searching on the internet. What I found is described below with the following link.

DIR-diver.com - Gas switching procedure (http://dir-diver.com/en/knowledge/gas_switching.html)

Gas switching procedure

Breathing the wrong gas at the wrong depth will kill you.

This is a simple procedure yet it can cause big problems for those trying to do it fast and mess it up. Remember, slow and deliberate is always fast. Also keep in mind that all deco and stage bottles are turned off when not in use. That prevents us from loosing gas without knowing it and is also an additional safety step preventing us from breathing the wrong gas.

Common mistakes

These are the most common mistakes for those relatively new to this:

It's easy to float up or down while changing regs. The solution is to check the depth between each step of the procedure.
It's easy to get the hoses wrong. Make sure you have a clear mental picture of where everything goes and what is behind or crosses when you switch.
Switch to stage or deco bottle

1. Wait until you reach the switching depth.

2. Hang up you primary light (turned on, pointing down).

3. Choose the proper bottle by looking at the MOD label and show it to your buddy who verifies it with an OK (depth and gas is correct).

4. Grab the second stage with your right hand and route the hose around your neck.

5. Open the valve and purge the second stage.

6. Remove the longhose (with left hand) and put the stage/deco reg in your mouth and breath.

7. Clip of the longhose on the right chest D-ring.

8. Unclip your light and signal you buddy that you are ready with an OK.

Switch back to the longhose.

1. Hang up you primary light (turned on, pointing down).

2. Unclip the longhose and hold it in your right hand.

3. Remove the reg from your mouth with your left and pull the hose over your head.

4. Put the longhose in your mouth and start breathing.

5. Close the valve on the bottle you where breathing.

6. Lift the innertube with your left hand (thumb) and push the hose in there.

7. Pull on the hose and make sure the second stage is secure under the innertube.

8. Unclip your light.

Switching between multiple bottles

If you need to switch from one stage to another, from a deco bottle to another or any combination, you go to the long hose first. Like this:

1. Switch back to the longhose and stow the bottle you are breathing.

2. Move bottles around if it makes things smoother.

3. Switch to the new stage or deco bottle.

And you can have the light clipped off until you have completed the whole process.

If you are switching deco gases, let's say from 50% to Oxygen, you switch to backgas (longhose) at 9m/30ft for the last couple of minutes. That gives you time to stow the 50% and move things around. Then ascend to 6m/20ft and deploy the oxygen. This is the cleanest and safest way to do it.

Gas breaks

When doing more than 20 minutes on oxygen you have to do a gas break to keep the gas exchange effective. When you go to breath the longhose you can stow the reg on the oxygen bottle just by clipping the second stage to one of the boltsnaps or the handle. Anyway you chose to stow it, you NEVER let regs hang around your neck. Why? Because when something happens you will not know what you are breathing or even if it is turned on.

Team switching

When you switch deco gases it's best to do it one at a time, especially if you're not very experienced. The chance of something going wrong is always bigger at the gas switches so it's a good idea to supervise each other. I have stopped people from breathing oxygen at the wrong depth or choosen the wrong bottle several times. Also it's easy to get something into the second stage, like small sticks, sand, clay and if you breath that you may need some help to recover. That's by the way why you need to purge the second stage before breathing it. But we all make mistakes, right?

Stage diving

When you are using stages in the ocean you often suck them dry or almost dry. Then you switch to the backgas (unless you have several stages which is uncommon). If you want to you can signal you buddies, show them the switch sign and everybody can do the switch. Nice if you have similar gas consumption since everybodies stages should be getting close to empty. If you are experienced you can switch on the fly though.

Have fun!

Peter

Is that Recreational and or No Decompression Diving?

dkh6070
12-28-2009, 08:24
Roger, Sounds like you are taking this a little too personal. I can understand your frustrations with them of being misrepresented about their products.

I am looking into computers and asked my LDS “your” scenario regarding the Cobra 2. I was told that the Cobra 2 has the ability to perform gas switching underwater and that is what that is for but it is not marketed that way for liability concerns which is also why they do not explain it in the manual as you stated. I used the scenario that I would do one dive on air and the second on 32% should I switch to the second gas profile. I was told that the algorithm would work the same but the correct thing to do is to adjust the o2 on the first profile and not use the gas switching feature because it assumes you are switching bottles, as in underwater, in the middle of a dive profile for deco scenarios. Any time they sell a product in their LDS, it must be based on basic recreational diving to the least common denominator. The way it was explained to me is the same as what “Smooth Dome” had explained. I agree that the way you want to use the computer would serve some benefit to you in tracking your dives but it appears that is not what is designed to do.

I agree that the tech support should be knowledgeable about their product and they are at fault for not being able to explain. If you would like to get to the point of severing your own head and throwing it at them, call Sprint mobile phone tech support.

Sorry for your frustration for them misrepresenting their product but it does sound like it works the way it was designed as “my LDS” explained it to me. Again I agree with your frustration but it sounds like a support/ instruction issue and not a product performance issue. Good luck.

RogerAg
12-30-2009, 10:44
I agree with your frustration but it sounds like a support/ instruction issue and not a product performance issue.

I said it all along that it was not in the Manual.
In fact maybe I should not criticize phone support because just maybe they were using the Manual, and we all know that it is not in the Manual.
Maybe I cant blame the dive shops because all they have to go by is the Manual. And the repair people may not have understood because as we all know its not in the Manual. Its interesting to note that when the Cobra 2 was sent back to me they also sent me a new Manual with the statement to read it.
However we all know that it is not in the Manual.
On page 32 of the Manual 6.2.4 "Gas change and multiple breathing gas mixes".
There should have been:
NOTE: psi will not show while in Mix 2.
NOTE: psi will show for 1 second in Mix 2 by pressing the down button.

Before Anyone saids that they can't put everything in the Manual, I say yes they can. In fact the vary next page has only 1/3 print on it. The rest is blank.

But now lets talk about the Manual. The Manual looks about the same size as the Manual for the Cobra 1. But:
Cobra 1, 70 pages + the cover 74 pages.
Cobra 2, 53 pages including on inside cover for a total of 56 pages.
How did they do that. Simple they cheapened the manual by making the print smaller.

In the Cobra 1 Manual back inside cover there is a really helpful chart that explains navigating through all the buttons. They also included that chart on a waterproof card that can be brought on a dive boat or even underwater.
The Cobra 2 Manual did not include that chart.
I am beginning to understand that the only thing Suunto did not cheapen on the Cobra 2 is the price.

RogerAg
12-30-2009, 12:02
There are also other problems with the Cobra 2, that maybe someone can help.

The Cobra 2 was purchased for my wife because she liked the idea of a digital compass. But she can't use the compass, so that is another reason that I am diving with the Cobra 2 and she is diving with my Cobra 1.

The problem with the Compass is my wife has arthritis and can't press and hold the "Select" Button while underwater. She can press and hold it on the surface, but not in cold water. It is interesting to NOTE that she can press and hold all the other buttons on the Cobra 2 just not the "Select" Button.

On the surface I have noticed that the "Select" button is a little stiffer then the other buttons.

smartdog126
01-03-2010, 00:23
do any of you own the suunto cobra 3? has anyone had this problem? because im about to purchase one well not about to but this is the computer im prob getting

RogerAg
01-03-2010, 12:25
do any of you own the suunto cobra 3? has anyone had this problem? because im about to purchase one well not about to but this is the computer im prob getting

I looked at the Manual for the Cobra 3 and it is essentially the same as the Cobra 2 except that it will connect to USB and of course the COST.

smartdog126
01-03-2010, 12:56
it also has the ability to tilt the compass 45 degress and still work efficiently