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fire diver
05-06-2009, 08:18
How much would a 15 year old, paint over galv, set of double PST HP 100's with 7/8th neck with bands and a sherwood isolation manifold be worth? The tanks also have a fresh hydro and vis. Which brings a second thought, aren't PSTs the tanks that have a lot of trouble passing hydro if the facility doesn't do the "stretching" run first?

Also any opinions on this tank? I have heard that they are heavy and will leave you head-heavy. I've been wanting a set of HP100's and slowly saving for a set of X7s but wondering if these would be worth the savings.

CompuDude
05-06-2009, 12:21
How much would a 15 year old, paint over galv, set of double PST HP 100's with 7/8th neck with bands and a sherwood isolation manifold be worth? The tanks also have a fresh hydro and vis. Which brings a second thought, aren't PSTs the tanks that have a lot of trouble passing hydro if the facility doesn't do the "stretching" run first?

Also any opinions on this tank? I have heard that they are heavy and will leave you head-heavy. I've been wanting a set of HP100's and slowly saving for a set of X7s but wondering if these would be worth the savings.

They're no worse than any other doubled HP100s... which is to say they're VERY good tanks. Double HP100s (as long as they're not those crazy heavy medium pressure Fabers) are very popular. There are some who get a little head heavy with them, but it's generally quite manageable.

That said, YES, these are the tanks that can have issues at hydro. Some of them go forever, as good steel tanks should, others seem to have problems. The fact that these are still around is probably a good sign.

I bought one of these PST hp100s once that was spotless inside, but it was only a year to hydro. It failed hydro, so I only got a year's use out of the tank. I only paid $125, so I was ... somewhat ... ok with that, but it was still disappointing.

But given that these have a fresh vis and just passed hydro, you're probably in good shape for the next 5 years, possibly much more.

So temper what you'll pay with this info. My personal opinion is I'd pay no more than $200 per tank, given their age, maybe as low as $150 if I could get away with it. Add in perhaps $100-125 for the manifold and bands, and there's your price, based on individual tank values and resale value of the doubles parts. (The bands, if they're in good shape, are still good for all current 7.25" tanks, but the manifold is old and only usable on tanks like these.... worth $50-75 max, IIRC. It's been a while since I looked at those used prices, tho.)

These are max prices. Naturally, from the buyer's perspective, you want the best deal possible, so if you can grab the whole kit for $250 go for it! :smiley20: The seller may feel otherwise, of course...

cummings66
05-10-2009, 15:04
The old PST's are better than the new ones, most pass the hydro. They had problems with some of the recent ones though.

IMO an old set of double HP100's would be worth maybe $400 at most. I'd probably try to get them for $350 myself.

fire diver
05-10-2009, 16:25
My biggest problem so far is that it would take at least $100 to get a set shipped, which makes it very hard to not pay more than they are worth. Also, since PST no longer exists, these tanks may become impossible to have hydro'ed or filled after the exemtion expires in 3 years.

cummings66
05-11-2009, 08:01
Last I heard PST exists as a Korean company still. Are you looking at those cylinders in the used stuff for sale category? I don't care for the valves on them, but other than that... Those valves don't match up with what I have on my same vintage HP100's and they don't look like it'd be easy to manipulate since it's just a small metal valve knob.

Plus, to be fair, you can ship doubles for less than $100. That's too much money for shipping IMO when it's really closer to $70 for double HP100's. That's assuming Florida to Central MO.

fire diver
05-11-2009, 08:07
There have been several sets for sale (or same set different names?) that I have been looking at. I agree that the valves are another down point against the older set. The if manifold fails, I have trouble replacing it. If one or more of thanks fail, I have an almost worthless manifold.

I haven't found any that I'm ready to drop cash on. The Worthington 100's would be great, but the guy refuses to ship, so I keep on looking.

CompuDude
05-11-2009, 14:50
Shipping generally kills any interest in used tanks for me. Just adds too much to the cost... especially in the case of doubles. Unless shipping is free (or really cheap), something you usually only get (sometimes) with new tanks, for used tanks, it's gotta be a local sale.

crpntr133
05-12-2009, 22:05
I took a VIC course last weekend and the instructor also has a hydro facility. He didn't sound like it looked to good for PST tanks after three years. I know this has been beaten to death.
7/8' thread would be a deal killer for me..but that is me.

cummings66
05-15-2009, 14:59
I agree it doesn't look like the new PST will ship anytime soon, but the exemption is still currently there.

If it goes away I'll just dive mine and fill my own without worrying about things until something else occurs. Once in a while when an exemption does disappear, it comes back. That happened to my Norris cylinders, but in the interim some cylinders did get scrapped.

Stay on top of it and don't send them off for hydro if the exemption expires.

neogeo
05-16-2009, 13:27
So what would you say about a set of PST lp104's? Fresh hydro... Are they worth buying?

UCFKnightDiver
05-16-2009, 17:41
If I remember correctly the LP tanks do not need the special exemption renewed every couple of years from DOT that HP tanks do so I think they should be fine.

CompuDude
05-16-2009, 23:35
If I remember correctly the LP tanks do not need the special exemption renewed every couple of years from DOT that HP tanks do so I think they should be fine.

Correct, LP tanks are not exemption tanks.

I don't care for the fact that they need a special hydro that few places can do, to restore the + certification, however.

in_cavediver
05-17-2009, 19:43
If I remember correctly the LP tanks do not need the special exemption renewed every couple of years from DOT that HP tanks do so I think they should be fine.

Correct, LP tanks are not exemption tanks.

I don't care for the fact that they need a special hydro that few places can do, to restore the + certification, however.

Compudude - The '+' rating is standard and any DOT hydro shop can do it. The process is a standard as is available on any 3AA steel tank. Most tanks don't get it because most places don't care about it or use it as an option. All you have to do is ask for it. The other fact which can't be discounted is the fill practices for most places. I have yet to find a single fill place who looked to see what the fill pressure really was on my tanks. Maybe places are more anal where you are at but most everywhere I have been, my tanks get a hot 2750-3000 in them when not cave filled.

Personally, I like the fact my LP tanks are the universal non-exemption tanks. I have friends with PST HP (3500psi) tanks and they are now dealing with what happens when a tank manufacturer goes under.

CompuDude
05-18-2009, 02:51
If I remember correctly the LP tanks do not need the special exemption renewed every couple of years from DOT that HP tanks do so I think they should be fine.

Correct, LP tanks are not exemption tanks.

I don't care for the fact that they need a special hydro that few places can do, to restore the + certification, however.

Compudude - The '+' rating is standard and any DOT hydro shop can do it. The process is a standard as is available on any 3AA steel tank. Most tanks don't get it because most places don't care about it or use it as an option. All you have to do is ask for it. The other fact which can't be discounted is the fill practices for most places. I have yet to find a single fill place who looked to see what the fill pressure really was on my tanks. Maybe places are more anal where you are at but most everywhere I have been, my tanks get a hot 2750-3000 in them when not cave filled.

Personally, I like the fact my LP tanks are the universal non-exemption tanks. I have friends with PST HP (3500psi) tanks and they are now dealing with what happens when a tank manufacturer goes under.

Feel free to shop around Southern California. I know a lot of people who drive their tanks to ARIZONA (TDL's hydro facility) because there are no local hydro shops that do the plus test.

Just because you haven't found the places in your state doesn't mean they don't exist.

And yes, the shops around here seem to be considerably more anal about checking fill pressure. Not to say there aren't exceptions, but that what they are. Not the rule.

Haven't we been over this before? I'm just not comfortable with advocating methods which depend on shops that are willing to break the rules, because this is (a) NOT universal and (b) well, my other objection is not tough to figure out.

BouzoukiJoe A.K.A. wrecker130 AKA Chuck Norris AKA joeforbroke (banned)
05-18-2009, 09:51
So what would you say about a set of PST lp104's? Fresh hydro... Are they worth buying?


They're worth buying. They're nice tanks. The real question is how much.

in_cavediver
05-18-2009, 16:51
If I remember correctly the LP tanks do not need the special exemption renewed every couple of years from DOT that HP tanks do so I think they should be fine.

Correct, LP tanks are not exemption tanks.

I don't care for the fact that they need a special hydro that few places can do, to restore the + certification, however.

Compudude - The '+' rating is standard and any DOT hydro shop can do it. The process is a standard as is available on any 3AA steel tank. Most tanks don't get it because most places don't care about it or use it as an option. All you have to do is ask for it. The other fact which can't be discounted is the fill practices for most places. I have yet to find a single fill place who looked to see what the fill pressure really was on my tanks. Maybe places are more anal where you are at but most everywhere I have been, my tanks get a hot 2750-3000 in them when not cave filled.

Personally, I like the fact my LP tanks are the universal non-exemption tanks. I have friends with PST HP (3500psi) tanks and they are now dealing with what happens when a tank manufacturer goes under.

Feel free to shop around Southern California. I know a lot of people who drive their tanks to ARIZONA (TDL's hydro facility) because there are no local hydro shops that do the plus test.

Just because you haven't found the places in your state doesn't mean they don't exist.

And yes, the shops around here seem to be considerably more anal about checking fill pressure. Not to say there aren't exceptions, but that what they are. Not the rule.

Haven't we been over this before? I'm just not comfortable with advocating methods which depend on shops that are willing to break the rules, because this is (a) NOT universal and (b) well, my other objection is not tough to figure out.

I can agree with the fill practices bit. To me, a hot 2750-3000 cools to around 2650 or so which is spec. It all depends on the operator and thier policies and process. I personally when at the FD fill to a hot 3000 and they cool to spec (or within gauge accuracy at least).

As for the hydro bit - I still can't figure it out. The only difference between a plus rated hydro and the regular hydro is the table used in the process. Its still lower pressure than an AL 80 gets so its not pressure related. Its also still part of the DOT procedure for 3AA tanks so it can't be knowledge or documentation related (they have to have it). Maybe those shops broke their '+' stamp.....

Even that - I don't mind the '2400psi' capacity for my tanks for most dives. (some still get the cave treatment though)

cummings66
05-20-2009, 07:22
I have friends with PST HP (3500psi) tanks and they are now dealing with what happens when a tank manufacturer goes under.

As far as I know, the exemption is still valid. They shouldn't be dealing with any issues at all. The expiration date for the current SP-E9791 exemption is May 31, 2011. If they're dealing with issues I don't know what they could be. That means, if you have them and have a hydro coming up it'd be best to get it done before that date. Shops might miss the exemption being expired, but you can bet a DOT hydro facility won't. You will lose it if you bring it in for hydro after that date, if the exemption doesn't get renewed.

in_cavediver
05-20-2009, 11:07
I have friends with PST HP (3500psi) tanks and they are now dealing with what happens when a tank manufacturer goes under.

As far as I know, the exemption is still valid. They shouldn't be dealing with any issues at all. The expiration date for the current SP-E9791 exemption is May 31, 2011. If they're dealing with issues I don't know what they could be. That means, if you have them and have a hydro coming up it'd be best to get it done before that date. Shops might miss the exemption being expired, but you can bet a DOT hydro facility won't. You will lose it if you bring it in for hydro after that date, if the exemption doesn't get renewed.

That was kinda my point - they are good for a few years then who knows given the status of the exemption paperwork (there was issues the last time it was renewed when PST was out of buisness). 2016 is a ways out (7 years) but I find myself suprised at how time flies.

My 3AA's are good forever so longs as they pass.

cummings66
05-20-2009, 12:42
Yeah, always the hassle with HP steel cylinders.

CompuDude
05-20-2009, 13:31
Yeah, always the hassle with HP steel cylinders.

Always? I think a major vendor going under is a somewhat unusual situation. Ignoring Norris, which was never a big player, PST's failure is the first time this has really been an issue, to my mind.

Faber is not likely to go away, ever, so their HP tanks (like the FX series) aren't likely to have this issue. I guess we'll see with Worthington. They're pretty big as well, though, in areas other than scuba, so as long as they don't go under I doubt it will be an issue either.

Personally, I find the whole + rating system of LP cylinders (ALL makes) to be way more absurd, compared to the unusual situation of a major vendor going out of business.

UCFKnightDiver
05-20-2009, 15:50
Yeah, always the hassle with HP steel cylinders.

Always? I think a major vendor going under is a somewhat unusual situation. Ignoring Norris, which was never a big player, PST's failure is the first time this has really been an issue, to my mind.

Faber is not likely to go away, ever, so their HP tanks (like the FX series) aren't likely to have this issue. I guess we'll see with Worthington. They're pretty big as well, though, in areas other than scuba, so as long as they don't go under I doubt it will be an issue either.

Personally, I find the whole + rating system of LP cylinders (ALL makes) to be way more absurd, compared to the unusual situation of a major vendor going out of business.

to be honest I dont know a dive shop that really pays attention to the + rating anyways so absurd or not does it really matter? From all the dive shops I go to its 2500 not 2400 or 2650

cummings66
05-20-2009, 17:19
Well, PST was a big player in steel cylinders and they went under. I don't for a second think any of the current names are immune. Even if they don't go under if they for some reason decide not to renew the exemption you're stuck.

Kaiser didn't renew their exemptions and now you have to pull their cylinders from service. Norris for a time was late, but came through and I hope keep it current. Hard to say. My point was the steel cylinders that have an exemption rely on the maker to keep the exemption current. It's quite different when it's not required.

fire diver
05-20-2009, 17:27
So what the chances that someone else will pickup the exemption for the PST HP cylinders?

Is there any cost to taking over the exemption?

Any liability?

cummings66
05-20-2009, 17:30
I'll tell you what my plans are. Early hydro and I'm not going to worry about it after that. Gives me 7 years from now for them. I doubt any dive shop would ever gig the exemption bit, most I doubt even know they're exempt cylinders.

Not to mention, a hydro is not necessary for personal usage, only commercial. So, I'm not stressed out. I'll fill my own if it happens.