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View Full Version : Do you still need your Nitrox card if you are a DM?



scubadiver888
05-21-2009, 08:33
Right now I have a whack of dive cards (AOW, EANx, Wreck, etc.). I'm getting my DM now. Once I have my DM card, do I still need to carry my Nitrox card? Technically, does a dive shop need to see my Nitrox card to give me a fill? Can you be a DM without Nitrox?

TommyB
05-21-2009, 08:49
DM'ing has nothing to do with mixed gasses. You can be a DM without ever having Nitrox Card, so technically the shop would need to see your card.

chinacat46
05-21-2009, 09:16
Agree you need the nitrox card. They do allow you to get your nitrox cert added to your cert cards now so if you already have nitrox and then go for DM have them add the nitrox to your DM card when you apply for it then you only need show the DM card. This is for PADI not sure if other agencies do this as well.

No Misses
05-21-2009, 10:18
This is related to my pet peeve with cert cards. They should be like a drivers license. You get the basic cert and then add endorsements to it for higher clasifications.

Drivers license - you have the ability to legally drive a vehicle.
Endorsements
-- veh with GVW greater than X
-- Motorcycle
--Passengers in excess of 16
--hazmat
--etc.

scubadiver888
05-21-2009, 10:19
Agree you need the nitrox card. They do allow you to get your nitrox cert added to your cert cards now so if you already have nitrox and then go for DM have them add the nitrox to your DM card when you apply for it then you only need show the DM card. This is for PADI not sure if other agencies do this as well.

I'm training under PADI so this works for me. I'll have one card with EANx and DM on it. I should ask my instructor to show me her card. Mind you she is IDC Staff Instructor.

chinacat46
05-21-2009, 12:14
There are times you might not want to advertise you are a DM. If you are on a trip and just want to fun dive and don't want the responsibility of watching others, etc... it's nice to just be able to show another card. Shops and boats will sometimes stick a DM with newer divers so it takes some of the responsibility off of them.

navyhmc
05-21-2009, 15:20
As a DM working, I don't think you need to carry any cards-the boat/shop/group your with will know. Now when you're off diving on your own dime, I would bring probably two cards: AOW and Eanx-will get you most places you want to go. The boat knows you're a DM, you might have to pay to work.

cruzan
05-21-2009, 15:29
Agree you need the nitrox card. They do allow you to get your nitrox cert added to your cert cards now so if you already have nitrox and then go for DM have them add the nitrox to your DM card when you apply for it then you only need show the DM card. This is for PADI not sure if other agencies do this as well.

Did not know that it's good to know.

scubadiver888
05-21-2009, 16:05
There are times you might not want to advertise you are a DM. If you are on a trip and just want to fun dive and don't want the responsibility of watching others, etc... it's nice to just be able to show another card. Shops and boats will sometimes stick a DM with newer divers so it takes some of the responsibility off of them.

Good advice. If I'm diving at home I'll probably use my DM card as most the guys I dive with are OWSI or higher (as high as Course Director) and the boat operators all know these guys (even if they didn't bring their pro cards).

But when I go to the Caribbean I often have a lot of OW (not even AOW) on the boat with me.

CODMAN
05-22-2009, 12:02
There are times you might not want to advertise you are a DM. If you are on a trip and just want to fun dive and don't want the responsibility of watching others, etc... it's nice to just be able to show another card. Shops and boats will sometimes stick a DM with newer divers so it takes some of the responsibility off of them.

All too true...:smilie40:

Desert_Diver
05-23-2009, 10:39
/hijack alert

I was under the impression that unless you are working for the
dive op/LDS, then you are not diving in an official capacity. I did
get a discount when I was diving with a Phi Phi Island dive op in
Thailand because I was a DM (and now that I think of it, that puts
into a murky kind of clarity). But everybody on that dive was DM
except two other divers (all in our travel group).

Does anybody really know the legal status of an un-compensated
DM?

/terminate hijack

DMWiz
05-23-2009, 11:30
/hijack alert

I was under the impression that unless you are working for the
dive op/LDS, then you are not diving in an official capacity. I did
get a discount when I was diving with a Phi Phi Island dive op in
Thailand because I was a DM (and now that I think of it, that puts
into a murky kind of clarity). But everybody on that dive was DM
except two other divers (all in our travel group).

Does anybody really know the legal status of an un-compensated
DM?

/terminate hijack

I highly recommend you do 2 things:

1. Read The Law and The Diving Professional.
2. Carry your own Professional Liability Insurance.

They will provide you some piece of mind. :)

Regarding the whole getting stuck with divers issue. I hear this quite often, but have never actually seen it and I dive with instructors and other DMs. And they all same the same: If I'm in the boat for my shop, I'm always expected to help the paying customers. On other boats I'm a paying customer just like anyone else no matter what card I show. If you need me, pay me and comp my seat on the boat then we'll talk.

Also, I would be worried of any outfit that would trust their customer to someone just because they have a pro rating unless they knew them and if that's the case the card you're carrying is irrelevant. They know if you are a pro or not.

Desert_Diver
05-24-2009, 13:29
/hijack alert

I was under the impression that unless you are working for the
dive op/LDS, then you are not diving in an official capacity. I did
get a discount when I was diving with a Phi Phi Island dive op in
Thailand because I was a DM (and now that I think of it, that puts
into a murky kind of clarity). But everybody on that dive was DM
except two other divers (all in our travel group).

Does anybody really know the legal status of an un-compensated
DM?

/terminate hijack

I highly recommend you do 2 things:

1. Read The Law and The Diving Professional.
2. Carry your own Professional Liability Insurance.

They will provide you some piece of mind. :)

Regarding the whole getting stuck with divers issue. I hear this quite often, but have never actually seen it and I dive with instructors and other DMs. And they all same the same: If I'm in the boat for my shop, I'm always expected to help the paying customers. On other boats I'm a paying customer just like anyone else no matter what card I show. If you need me, pay me and comp my seat on the boat then we'll talk.

Also, I would be worried of any outfit that would trust their customer to someone just because they have a pro rating unless they knew them and if that's the case the card you're carrying is irrelevant. They know if you are a pro or not.

My insurance is up to date. But I would still hate to get involved in litigation just because I was on the scene. If I am not paid by the dive op or the customer, I'm just another Rescue Diver with no legal liability (at least from my perspective).

But then I guess these murkier areas of definition are why lawyers drive big fancy cars.:smiley36:


Art

chinacat46
05-24-2009, 14:48
/hijack alert

I was under the impression that unless you are working for the
dive op/LDS, then you are not diving in an official capacity. I did
get a discount when I was diving with a Phi Phi Island dive op in
Thailand because I was a DM (and now that I think of it, that puts
into a murky kind of clarity). But everybody on that dive was DM
except two other divers (all in our travel group).

Does anybody really know the legal status of an un-compensated
DM?

/terminate hijack

I highly recommend you do 2 things:

1. Read The Law and The Diving Professional.
2. Carry your own Professional Liability Insurance.

They will provide you some piece of mind. :)

Regarding the whole getting stuck with divers issue. I hear this quite often, but have never actually seen it and I dive with instructors and other DMs. And they all same the same: If I'm in the boat for my shop, I'm always expected to help the paying customers. On other boats I'm a paying customer just like anyone else no matter what card I show. If you need me, pay me and comp my seat on the boat then we'll talk.

Also, I would be worried of any outfit that would trust their customer to someone just because they have a pro rating unless they knew them and if that's the case the card you're carrying is irrelevant. They know if you are a pro or not.

My insurance is up to date. But I would still hate to get involved in litigation just because I was on the scene. If I am not paid by the dive op or the customer, I'm just another Rescue Diver with no legal liability (at least from my perspective).

But then I guess these murkier areas of definition are why lawyers drive big fancy cars.:smiley36:


Art

If you are at a professional level and an accident occurs while you are present don't think for one minute you have no legal liability because you are there diving recreationally and aren't being paid. That is one reason why you need to file an accident report with PADI if that is your agency. A lawyer will find out you are a professional and they will go after everybody and anybody they can.

DMWiz
05-24-2009, 14:53
/hijack alert

I was under the impression that unless you are working for the
dive op/LDS, then you are not diving in an official capacity. I did
get a discount when I was diving with a Phi Phi Island dive op in
Thailand because I was a DM (and now that I think of it, that puts
into a murky kind of clarity). But everybody on that dive was DM
except two other divers (all in our travel group).

Does anybody really know the legal status of an un-compensated
DM?

/terminate hijack

I highly recommend you do 2 things:

1. Read The Law and The Diving Professional.
2. Carry your own Professional Liability Insurance.

They will provide you some piece of mind. :)

Regarding the whole getting stuck with divers issue. I hear this quite often, but have never actually seen it and I dive with instructors and other DMs. And they all same the same: If I'm in the boat for my shop, I'm always expected to help the paying customers. On other boats I'm a paying customer just like anyone else no matter what card I show. If you need me, pay me and comp my seat on the boat then we'll talk.

Also, I would be worried of any outfit that would trust their customer to someone just because they have a pro rating unless they knew them and if that's the case the card you're carrying is irrelevant. They know if you are a pro or not.

My insurance is up to date. But I would still hate to get involved in litigation just because I was on the scene. If I am not paid by the dive op or the customer, I'm just another Rescue Diver with no legal liability (at least from my perspective).

But then I guess these murkier areas of definition are why lawyers drive big fancy cars.:smiley36:


Art

Being on the scene does not get you sued and even if you only presented your rescue card, whether your are involved or not, your professional rating would come to light during the discovery period in the law suit. So the fact that you didn't present your card means absolutely nothing.

Even diving for fun with a buddy exposes you to getting sued, the fact that you're not being paid by him does not limit your exposure.

namabiru
05-25-2009, 01:24
This is related to my pet peeve with cert cards. They should be like a drivers license. You get the basic cert and then add endorsements to it for higher clasifications.

Drivers license - you have the ability to legally drive a vehicle.
Endorsements
-- veh with GVW greater than X
-- Motorcycle
--Passengers in excess of 16
--hazmat
--etc.

Actually, I believe either NAUI or SSI does this. I totally agree- have one card with everything rather than accumulating. The thing that sucks, though, is if you were to misplace your card.

PADI *could* consider this as a selling option, though-- you choose whether to get a separate card or to have the endorsement added to your new certification. Let's say you hit Rescue Diver, but aren't a Master Scuba diver yet. So you then decide to get your Master. As you complete each specialty, you can choose the separate card. Then, when you hit Master the 5 specialties you've completed are added.

Better yet, if they could just add the endorsement to your existing card, it's just a case of sending it to PADI, they make the change, and send back.

scubadiver888
05-25-2009, 10:19
Talked with my instructor about this sort of stuff.

She presents her full card. She is IDC Staff Trainer and she lets it be known. Her thinking is, if you hide your level of certification some lawyers might find this worth going after. Additionally, once you hit the pro level, you cannot just walk away from an accident. Things do get a LOT murkier once you become a DM but part of what I'll learn from her (and the Police Officier/DM, EMS trainer/Instructor, Course Director, etc.) will be how to handle myself.

Finished Rescue Diver this weekend and they all had a chat with me about how I handled the 'reporter' who was digging for information while I directed a rescue. Basically, 80% if the staff have exposure to litigation (EMS, Police, Fireman, etc.) outside of diving and a lot of training on how to cover their own butt.

Didn't get into the insurance aspect of things but I suspect I will as I go through my DM training.

Little scary. Never liked dealing with Lawyers and litigation. We'll see how the DM training goes. I know I always have the option of not taking the final exam. Then I'll stay non-professional.

Desert_Diver
05-25-2009, 10:28
Talked with my instructor about this sort of stuff.

She presents her full card. She is IDC Staff Trainer and she lets it be known. Her thinking is, if you hide your level of certification some lawyers might find this worth going after. Additionally, once you hit the pro level, you cannot just walk away from an accident. Things do get a LOT murkier once you become a DM but part of what I'll learn from her (and the Police Officier/DM, EMS trainer/Instructor, Course Director, etc.) will be how to handle myself.

Finished Rescue Diver this weekend and they all had a chat with me about how I handled the 'reporter' who was digging for information while I directed a rescue. Basically, 80% if the staff have exposure to litigation (EMS, Police, Fireman, etc.) outside of diving and a lot of training on how to cover their own butt.

Didn't get into the insurance aspect of things but I suspect I will as I go through my DM training.

Little scary. Never liked dealing with Lawyers and litigation. We'll see how the DM training goes. I know I always have the option of not taking the final exam. Then I'll stay non-professional.

I took the DM course because it seemed to be the instruction that tied everything together. The more basic courses told you what to do, but the DM class explained (at least to me, anyway) why you did that thing. I have no ambition to become an instructor. I am taking training in the tec diving area now. I did get, and update, my DM insurance because I do help with basic open water classes as a DM (that is pronounced "slave labor"). Actually, it's fun because it keeps me in the water between trips.

I do recommend the training. Rescue was the most fun course I took, but DM was where I learned the most. But I am just a tad nervous about the liability thing.

Art