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Vercingetorix
08-26-2007, 00:50
Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the United States on a world map.
Here's the reason (http://www.maniacworld.com/what-is-she-talking-about.html)

dmdoss
08-26-2007, 01:44
Holy crap. Thats all I can say.

divechaplain-sara
08-26-2007, 01:56
I guess that makes sense--logically anyway. If 20% of Americans don't have world maps, they can't find the US on one because they don't have one.
Of course her logic fell apart when she got to the education system in the US needing to be designed to help people in Iraq and South Africa--she forgot to mention that the most important thing was world peace. Someone needs to get that girl in a Toastmasters group.

the gooch
08-26-2007, 03:20
wow, what a babbling idiot.

Jaymeany
08-26-2007, 05:33
Graduating from Clemson University (SC) I am glad to say uh in South Africa they uh, um.... Maps? What are maps? I like shiny things...hehe

Yep I taught high school in SC, sometimes its that bad! but we have some all-stars up here too.

JugglingMonkeys
08-26-2007, 06:22
She forgot to mention that the most important thing was world peace.

:smilie39:

That's great!

hey, how about asking why few anglo americans can speak a second language? the answer might be even worse...

Phestr
08-26-2007, 06:59
I think I just forgot my own name...but I have a map here somewhere...what was the question?

DivingsInMyBlood
08-26-2007, 07:35
:smilie39: oh my the lord have mercy on blondes.

PlatypusMan
08-26-2007, 07:39
Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the United States on a world map.
Here's the reason (http://www.maniacworld.com/what-is-she-talking-about.html)

Okay, everyone altogether -- in your best Frasier Crane voice:

Oh -- My -- God!!

Of course, it should be noted that this was Miss Teen America and the target demographic is male teenagers-- who, when looking at the screen only notice that there's a pretty girl on it and totally ignore the dialogue. Most fortunate for Miss Teen America South Carolina in this instance.

dallasdivergirl
08-26-2007, 08:15
my first name is a state, Georgia.

do you really want to know how many people can't spell my name much less pronounce it? it's pretty sad.

one kid was struggling so hard I finally asked him if he flunked geography & he said "yes". I felt bad.

DivingsInMyBlood
08-26-2007, 08:17
poor guy, no disrespect to alot of the americans here but i find that alot more people in europe and only living here a few years in canada seem to know alot more about the world and where places are. Is the school system really that bad in the states?

tonka97
08-26-2007, 08:25
We live in an era, where you don't need to carry a lot of data in your head.:smiley29:

If the question had been:

Can you find a map of the United States on the internet?

The results would be different.:smiley20:


I do believe that foreign language instruction should begin in pre-school, kindergarten, and primary school. The U.S. educational system provides language training WAY too late to be effective.

gtjason2000
08-26-2007, 08:31
I hate when these reports come out because I am sure there are lots of students like myself who are very smart and good at geography. Divers should definitely know their geography. But it is sorry when we glorify people like miss teen sc, but in this case I think even the young male teens can make the right choice.

gtjason2000
08-26-2007, 08:36
poor guy, no disrespect to alot of the americans here but i find that alot more people in europe and only living here a few years in canada seem to know alot more about the world and where places are. Is the school system really that bad in the states?

I am a result of the us public school system and would go toe to toe with any foreign student, but unfortunately I don't know if I could say the same for the 'average' american. I don't think the schools are necessarily to blame but possibly peoples parents and the culture that does not emphasize intelligence as a good thing. I will relay something my wife's professors said. The international students are good at the first part of her phd program because it involves memorization to pass a huge qualifying test but the american's do better in the second half where they have to do original and creative research. In college we were usually allowed notes, formula sheets, or the books on tests because we were being taught not to memorize a formula but where to find it and how to use it.

JahJahwarrior
08-26-2007, 09:32
I agree that whlie the education system could do more, that it is really the responsibility of the person and their parents to learn. For example, is it the governments fault when my car breaks down? No, it's mine: I need to take charge and get it serviced, etc. So why is it the governments fault when my kid is stupid? It's my fault: I didn't force him to learn, I didn't teach him at home.

That girl obviously lacks public speaking skills and cannot think very well on her feet. If I was up there, I wuld have said something like "It's becuase parents have neglected to teach their children the basics of world geography, and because the children haven't cared enough to learn themselves. America's apathy about education is appalling and needs to be corrected, or else the kids in China will be eating our lunches one day. As for me, I can find America on a map, and I can find my home state in America, and I can find my town in my state, and that's because my parents showed me maps and taught me how to use them when I was little, and because I recognized the importance of information and strived to understand it."

But I'm not cute. (then again neither was she...)

ReefHound
08-26-2007, 10:42
She should be very thankful she has good looks... she's going to need them.

As to the topic, I see these kinds of polls but I certainly can't find all these people who are so ignorant. Maybe I'm insulated from the uneducated.

I don't know if the Europeans have a better education system or not, but it doesn't seem to translate into real-world advantage. We continue to eat their lunch economically.

TxHockeyGuy
08-26-2007, 11:17
We live in the era of google. While I can most certainly find the US and most states on the map, when it comes to most foreign countries or even some of the US states I'll be good to get you within a general area. Why is that? Because I can so easily look up the information when needed I feel no reason to memorize it. I'm by no means a moron, I do systems administration for a living and anyone who is familiar with that knows you can't be an idiot, have to know quite a bit, know where to look up the rest, and be able to react quickly to problems.

As far as the education system goes I think there are parts of it that are broken and while certainly some fault still lies with the parent I'm not letting our government off the hook on this one quite so easily. Each year they add more and more to the curriculum trying to jam more information into the same learning time. Did I learn my geography as well as my parents? Of course I didn't, but I'll bet they didn't have to learn as much science, humanities, and certainly computer courses as I have in school. If we're going to force students to learn all this then we have to prioritize, and figuring out where Kenya is on the map just doesn't rate real high up on my list of priorities. I apologize to any Kenyans reading this but knowing where your home country is doesn't really help me in any way. Another problem I see is there are so many standardized tests now that the teachers are forced to teach the test, so whatever is on that test is what they have to be certain to convey so you can graduate. I don't recall geography being on that test when I took it. Just a few points to think about.

Vercingetorix
08-26-2007, 11:22
We live in the era of google. While I can most certainly find the US and most states on the map,... Just a few points to think about.Next time we nav dive together, I'm keeping the compass.:smiley2:

TxHockeyGuy
08-26-2007, 11:27
We live in the era of google. While I can most certainly find the US and most states on the map,... Just a few points to think about.Next time we nav dive together, I'm keeping the compass.:smiley2:

So Mr Air Force thinks he can nav better than me, huh? :smilie39:

So long as you aren't asking me to find the coffin out at CSSP, or any of the attractions at the far south end (as I never go down there), I should be able to find it. I can probably even find the coffin now as the last time Timeliner took me there I popped up to take some compass headings. While I forgot one of them, I did remember the other! If I forget that one, well I posted it over on ScubaBoard and I'm sure google can find it for me again! :smilie40:

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 11:27
I personally think that the problem is a general one that has no true origin. It definitely starts at home with the parents and really has no end. The parents in America are not allowed to be parents anymore because of the government. I was raised in a spare the rod spoil the child era...now days you can't spank or even scold a child without fear of punishment from the government. In the same respect someone has got to raise the children of todays parents because the young parents of today feel that it is the responsibility of every other taxpaying citizen of the United States to pay for their children and that they should receive a handout for having children without working to pay for them. As for the school system, they are to concerned with how political correct they are that they don't have time to teach them anything. The immigration laws have made it more important to teach a second language than to teach geography in our schools. I believe that if you come to live in the United States learn to speak English. Children are learning to speak foreign languages for places they can't find on a map. As for world peace, it can't be achieved as long as the problems of the United States exist, as the old saying goes we must clean up our own back yard before stepping into someone else's. The attack on World Trade Center made us strong for awhile, then we forgot again. It is a shame that it takes an act like that to make us strong and patriotic at least for awhile. We need to step back and look at the real problems that are right in front of us. Teach our children to stand for what is right and fight to change what is wrong. Who cares if they know how to read a world map if they are not going to be here to get there?

chewyjr15
08-26-2007, 11:30
what a babiling moron

Jaymeany
08-26-2007, 11:33
Another problem I see is there are so many standardized tests now that the teachers are forced to teach the test, so whatever is on that test is what they have to be certain to convey so you can graduate. I don't recall geography being on that test when I took it. Just a few points to think about.

Being a teacher I agree. However the upside to the tests is to make sure that students are responsible for a certain amount of information to move on. It somewhat takes out teachers who lack content in there classes. This kind of works, but it makes it so that if one class is really interested in one topic you can't indulge them. I mean if my class is interested in something I want to spend a week on that topic so that they can see the joy in learning. The tests along with no child left behind has ruined that. oh well I will do my best to teach and change the system where i can.

Vercingetorix
08-26-2007, 11:34
Scuba Widow,

Your discussion is reasoned, well thought-out, concise, and makes sense.

I'm sorry, you don't fit in here.:smiley36:

The fact that I agree is irrelevant.

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 11:34
what a babiling moron

I think I would have learned to spell babbling before I called someone babbling.

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 11:47
Scuba Widow,

Your discussion is reasoned, well thought-out, concise, and makes sense.

I'm sorry, you don't fit in here.:smiley36:

The fact that I agree is irrelevant.

Why don't I fit in? We are all looking for answers to Americans are not as educated as we should be. Everything that I stated in my response is very relevant to the post. I'm sorry if I offended anybody with my beliefs. I just happen to feel that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink and he can't drink if the water is not offered and school systems of America are not offering the education that children need. The responsibility of education should not be left totally on the shoulders of the parents, they have enough to teach the children already.

Jaymeany
08-26-2007, 11:54
I think that was a compliment. as in you don't fit in here because
" Your discussion is reasoned, well thought-out, concise, and makes sense."

Vercingetorix
08-26-2007, 11:56
Why don't I fit in? We are all looking for answers to Americans are not as educated as we should be. Everything that I stated in my response is very relevant to the post. I'm sorry if I offended anybody with my beliefs. I just happen to feel that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink and he can't drink if the water is not offered and school systems of America are not offering the education that children need. The responsibility of education should not be left totally on the shoulders of the parents, they have enough to teach the children already.Scuba Widow,

I was joking that you don't fit in. Hence the little :smiley36: guy.

I do mean when I said your discussion "is reasoned, well thought-out, concise, and makes sense", and that I agreed with you.

Offense? Heck no. I've read many of your postings throughout the forums. You're one of the most active given the short time you've been around. Now, if we can just get you diving so that you are a widow no more...:smiley2:

Darthwader
08-26-2007, 12:01
She forgot to mention that the most important thing was world peace.

:smilie39:

That's great!

hey, how about asking why few anglo americans can speak a second language? the answer might be even worse...

Wasn't she? Certainly sounded like an ESL speaker to me:smilie39:

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 12:06
Why don't I fit in? We are all looking for answers to Americans are not as educated as we should be. Everything that I stated in my response is very relevant to the post. I'm sorry if I offended anybody with my beliefs. I just happen to feel that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink and he can't drink if the water is not offered and school systems of America are not offering the education that children need. The responsibility of education should not be left totally on the shoulders of the parents, they have enough to teach the children already.Scuba Widow,

I was joking that you don't fit in. Hence the little :smiley36: guy.

I do mean when I said your discussion "is reasoned, well thought-out, concise, and makes sense", and that I agreed with you.

Offense? Heck no. I've read many of your postings throughout the forums. You're one of the most active given the short time you've been around. Now, if we can just get you diving so that you are a widow no more...:smiley2:

Sorry!!!!Please forgive me!!!! We are working on the diving thing,but gotta learn to swim first!!! Can you believe grewup in Florida and can't swim, oh well....at least, I get to hear all the stories from finflippers like tonight when he gets home from todays dive trip.

namabiru
08-26-2007, 12:13
Wow... surely this was a joke.

Unfortunately, I know it isn't.

It's not so much the idea that people do, or do not, know the exact location of a country. Having an idea of where to look, though, is what's important. Not knowing exactly where Kenya is (its bordering countries, etc.) isn't a crime. However, at least knowing Kenya is an African country, and knowing where to find Africa to look for Kenya, is important. Or if you don't know this much, at least knowing how to use an index to locate the 'Kenya' page and 'Kenya' map markings is better than nothing.

I think there is a two-pronged problem being examined here:

1. You must have the desire to say "I'm not sure where (country) is, but I want to know. I'm going to get the atlas out and look it up."

2. Some Americans I encounter do not know where (country) is, and worse yet do not care that they don't know or lack the desire to learn.

What bothers me is that if you held a gun to a person's head who believed in #2 and asked them to find Kenya and remember which continent it was on for 1 minute, some wouldn't even care enough to do so at that time.

No, knowing the location of Kenya is not going to determine if you get a job or not. However, I'd rather hire the employee who has the desire to learn about things they don't know about rather than dismissing them passively. To me, this is initiative.

Jaymeany
08-26-2007, 12:19
Now I know who not to fight (Scuba Widow)! :smiley14:

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 12:21
Now I know who not to fight (Scuba Widow)! :smiley14:

lol...don't worry all of my angry is reserved for finflippers.

quarrydiver
08-26-2007, 12:22
We need to find a way to reward and attract good teachers. Teaching is an art, you have to not only know your subject well enough to guide learning, you have to be able to transfer that knowledge to others. You have to be a master in the behaviors of students and how to control those behaviors. Sounds easy but try it for a couple weeks and you'll understand.

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 12:25
Teachers are only half of the battle. The systems are the other half.

Jaymeany
08-26-2007, 12:31
They need to do certification differently if you want to get good teachers. Also, I don't want to raise someones child for them. Someone needs to teach them manners, respect, and general life skills at home. I hear kids talking to their parents on their cell phone ( this year I'm sure they will have the iphone) and yelling at them. I heard one girl in the halls say "I'm not talking to my parents right now because they sad I could go to Hawaii over Christmas and now they say we can't go. I'm pissed at them." I'm sure her parents were so happy that they can't go and you're the only one unhappy. Yes they did it just to spite you! oh yeah I teach at a private school and tuition is 8 grand. how bout you go to the school with metal detectors and then the whole family can go to hawaii without a problem!!!!
you have to be kidding me!

quarrydiver
08-26-2007, 12:34
I agree. There's a lot of pressure to have kids perform well on tests that don't really measure individual improvement or understanding.

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 12:34
That is exactly what I am talking. Spare the rod and spoil the child.

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 12:36
My problem with testing is this there are children out there that just don't test well, which makes the testing unfair to them.

namabiru
08-26-2007, 12:42
Speaking of the education system...

Here's another unrelated thought. I lived in Japan for 3 years, and last August returned to the area where I grew up. In that time, I've seen two Social Studies teachers who work at the local school. Both teach geography, one at the high elementary level, one at the high school level.

You would not believe the questions I was asked. From Social Studies teachers--people you would *expect* to have some basic knowledge, especially as they are educating the next generation.

Here goes--questions from a brief conversation with one Social Studies teacher: (and I swear I am not making these up)

1. What language do they speak in Japan?

2. Why don't they speak English?

3. Is Japan still a part of China? (that one really stopped me)

4. Why do Japanese people still use Japanese?

5. Why don't they write in English like everyone else in the world (I personally wasn't aware every other person in the world wrote in English... apparantly all those other non-Roman character languages such as Russian, and Greek, and Chinese, and Thai have magically become extinct)
5a was "well, why haven't other countries switched to English only?", and my response was "Why don't we switch to Chinese, since statistally more people in the world speak a form of Chinese plus Mandarin?", and her response was "Because we can't learn it." I said, "And you're still a school teacher? How can you make a sweeping generalization about a large population when you've not done the proper study?" Silence. Perhaps she didn't know the meaning of "generalization".

6. Now, Japanese and Chinese are the same, right?

7. Do they have electricity in rural Japan (my god... the electronics capital of the world... hmmm...)

8. Do people have cars (my god... from the land of Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi, etc.)?

At that point, I had to fake a phone call, as I was just getting a bit frustrated.

Japan is the second-largest economy in the world. Call me uppity, but I guess I just *assumed* a social studies teacher would

From the second social studies teacher, regarding my move to Qatar:
1. Where is Qatar (I get that one a lot)

Me: It's next to Saudi Arabia, with Bahrain sort of to the north, and the Emirates to the south.

2. What is Bahrain?

3. What are the Emirates?

4. Where is the Persian Gulf?
(I tell him all of this, becoming a bit bewildered)

Him: Oh, so there's a war in Qatar?
Me: No, the war is happening in Iraq.
Him: Well, isn't there war in all the Persian Gulf countries?
Me: No, not on the West gulf.
Him: And what's on the west gulf (after I had just crudely explained the Persian Gulf geography)
Him: And there's really no war in Qatar?
Me: No, I was just in Doha, and there's no war.
Him: And where is Doha?

Him: Well, don't get blown up (after I had just told him there is no war in Qatar).

You just kind of wonder if people are on autopilot. I tell people I'm a librarian, and I've got a job in Qatar, and the follow-up is inevitably oh, to do what? I feel like telling them I'm going to blow up embassies or something.

Not that I haven't gotten some well-thought-out, intelligent questions about my travels, and as a result I've enjoyed speaking with these people about my travels. And not that ALL Americans are ignorant--I enjoy speaking with people from #1, who don't know but want to learn. But good lord...

ETA--I don't mean to be uppity. Really, I don't. And I, by far, am not a know-it-all. I do not know everything about every single country. But you just wonder if people are completely sheltered, and don't even bother to read a newspaper, or listen to world news, or read CNN once in a while. I would find it impossible to know nothing about the world I live in.

quarrydiver
08-26-2007, 12:46
Some kids don't respect teachers because their parents don't respect them. I don't know how many times I've heard the "those who can't do, teach" quote. Teaching is hard and teachers that do it well inspire kids to achieve things we haven't yet imagined.

We're lucky not to have to put up with metal detectors at my kid's schools. Yet.

dallasdivergirl
08-26-2007, 12:50
I come from a family with three librarians so I have an idea of questions you might get but I am blown away that two teachers were asking you this.

the why does Japan speak Japanese question frighten me.




Speaking of the education system...

Here's another unrelated thought. I lived in Japan for 3 years, and last August returned to the area where I grew up. In that time, I've seen two Social Studies teachers who work at the local school. Both teach geography, one at the high elementary level, one at the high school level.

You would not believe the questions I was asked. From Social Studies teachers--people you would *expect* to have some basic knowledge, especially as they are educating the next generation.

Here goes--questions from a brief conversation with one Social Studies teacher: (and I swear I am not making these up)

1. What language do they speak in Japan?

2. Why don't they speak English?

3. Is Japan still a part of China? (that one really stopped me)

4. Why do Japanese people still use Japanese?

5. Why don't they write in English like everyone else in the world (I personally wasn't aware every other person in the world wrote in English... apparantly all those other non-Roman character languages such as Russian, and Greek, and Chinese, and Thai have magically become extinct)
5a was "well, why haven't other countries switched to English only?", and my response was "Why don't we switch to Chinese, since statistally more people in the world speak a form of Chinese plus Mandarin?", and her response was "Because we can't learn it." I said, "And you're still a school teacher? How can you make a sweeping generalization about a large population when you've not done the proper study?" Silence. Perhaps she didn't know the meaning of "generalization".

6. Now, Japanese and Chinese are the same, right?

7. Do they have electricity in rural Japan (my god... the electronics capital of the world... hmmm...)

8. Do people have cars (my god... from the land of Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi, etc.)?

At that point, I had to fake a phone call, as I was just getting a bit frustrated.

Japan is the second-largest economy in the world. Call me uppity, but I guess I just *assumed* a social studies teacher would

From the second social studies teacher, regarding my move to Qatar:
1. Where is Qatar (I get that one a lot)

Me: It's next to Saudi Arabia, with Bahrain sort of to the north, and the Emirates to the south.

2. What is Bahrain?

3. What are the Emirates?

4. Where is the Persian Gulf?
(I tell him all of this, becoming a bit bewildered)

Him: Oh, so there's a war in Qatar?
Me: No, the war is happening in Iraq.
Him: Well, isn't there war in all the Persian Gulf countries?
Me: No, not on the West gulf.
Him: And what's on the west gulf (after I had just crudely explained the Persian Gulf geography)
Him: And there's really no war in Qatar?
Me: No, I was just in Doha, and there's no war.
Him: And where is Doha?

Him: Well, don't get blown up (after I had just told him there is no war in Qatar).

You just kind of wonder if people are on autopilot. I tell people I'm a librarian, and I've got a job in Qatar, and the follow-up is inevitably oh, to do what? I feel like telling them I'm going to blow up embassies or something.

Not that I haven't gotten some well-thought-out, intelligent questions about my travels, and as a result I've enjoyed speaking with these people about my travels. And not that ALL Americans are ignorant--I enjoy speaking with people from #1, who don't know but want to learn. But good lord...

ETA--I don't mean to be uppity. Really, I don't. And I, by far, am not a know-it-all. I do not know everything about every single country. But you just wonder if people are completely sheltered, and don't even bother to read a newspaper, or listen to world news, or read CNN once in a while. I would find it impossible to know nothing about the world I live in.

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 12:55
Some kids don't respect teachers because their parents don't respect them. I don't know how many times I've heard the "those who can't do, teach" quote. Teaching is hard and teachers that do it well inspire kids to achieve things we haven't yet imagined.

We're lucky not to have to put up with metal detectors at my kid's schools. Yet.

I grewup in an area in Florida that now has metal detectors in the schools and it is not a very good feeling to walk into those schools, they make you feel very unsafe. Parents need to know respect and be able to teach it before the children know and give respect. We have a 20 year old daughter and I don't know how many times we heard you don't respect me from her while she was growing up. Even though she was taught to respect she didn't always give it. She was always told to get respect you have to give respect.

quarrydiver
08-26-2007, 12:57
Everyone has had that blond moment, maybe this was theirs. They also may have been asking because there are sometimes different dialects. Could also be that they were genuine dimwits.

quarrydiver
08-26-2007, 12:59
I know a college graduate that can't spell "Wednesday"

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 13:02
Everyone has had that blond moment, maybe this was theirs. They also may have been asking because there are sometimes different dialects. Could also be that they were genuine dimwits.

I can definitely agree with the dimwits statement. I work with a 21 year old woman who is going to school to be a teacher and can't spell at all... to be honest with you that scares the hell out of me. Especially since one night when me daughter was in high school we were watching the movie JFK and she ask me who that was?

quarrydiver
08-26-2007, 13:06
Some kids don't respect teachers because their parents don't respect them. I don't know how many times I've heard the "those who can't do, teach" quote. Teaching is hard and teachers that do it well inspire kids to achieve things we haven't yet imagined.

We're lucky not to have to put up with metal detectors at my kid's schools. Yet.

I grewup in an area in Florida that now has metal detectors in the schools and it is not a very good feeling to walk into those schools, they make you feel very unsafe. Parents need to know respect and be able to teach it before the children know and give respect. We have a 20 year old daughter and I don't know how many times we heard you don't respect me from her while she was growing up. Even though she was taught to respect she didn't always give it. She was always told to get respect you have to give respect.

You sound like a good parent. Teachers appreciate parents like you that support them (of course not all teachers deserve respect either). It's horrible that kids have to go to schools that are like prisons.

Jaymeany
08-26-2007, 13:08
Spelling is tough for the spellcheck auto correct generation. First there was spellcheck where you typed whatever was close then looked up what you wanted. at least you saw the correct word and had to select it. Now you either right click then scroll to what looks like the word you tried to type (without actually looking at the word) or autocorrect just fixes the most common errors without even telling you. No way to learn if it is always done for you. Thats why our instructor showed us how to set up our gear once. but then only checked it from then on out. You were shown once then you have to get it on your own.

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 13:08
Thank you...we have tried to teach her right from wrong, but of coarse once they grow up and are on their own...what can you do?

quarrydiver
08-26-2007, 13:12
yeah, that's true. I used to know phone numbers (still remember the high school girlfriend's 20 years later) but now after using cell phone directories, I don't know numbers of people I call all the time.

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 13:14
yeah, that's true. I used to know phone numbers (still remember the high school girlfriend's 20 years later) but now after using cell phone directories, I don't know numbers of people I call all the time.

finflippers will tell you in a heartbeat my cell phone number is speed dial #2....lol

quarrydiver
08-26-2007, 13:17
Thank you...we have tried to teach her right from wrong, but of coarse once they grow up and are on their own...what can you do?

Just keep giving that good example, it'll absorb someday. Wait till they have kids. You'll probably hear them acting the same way you do and then they'll realize you knew what you were talking about.

scuba Widow
08-26-2007, 13:32
She has already had a baby and she expects everybody else to pay for him...and so far my mother in law has done so.

JugglingMonkeys
08-26-2007, 14:20
1. What language do they speak in Japan?

2. Why don't they speak English?

3. Is Japan still a part of China? (that one really stopped me)


people in the US have asked me similar questions about australia.

1. Where did you learn English? You speak it so well!

2. Do they have indoor plumbing in australia?

etc. etc.
:smiley5:

frankc420
08-26-2007, 14:47
I find it ironic that most everyone in this thread thinks this girl is stupid or ignorant. Maybe she is under a lot of pressure, she is in front of millions of people you know!

I've been on TV before and was put on the spot.. it's not fun! I still have teeth marks on my ankle from where that damned dog bit me and my wrists still hurt from where the hand cuffs were way too tight! When they realized I was the wrong guy, they let me go... then they had the balls to ask me to sign a release form for the footage... screw you COPS.

DivingsInMyBlood
08-26-2007, 15:05
1. What language do they speak in Japan?

2. Why don't they speak English?

3. Is Japan still a part of China? (that one really stopped me)


people in the US have asked me similar questions about australia.

1. Where did you learn English? You speak it so well!

2. Do they have indoor plumbing in australia?

etc. etc.
:smiley5:


:smilie39: before i moved to canada everybody i knew in englanf thought there was always snow on the ground here and people living in igloo's

DirtyWaterIL
08-26-2007, 15:10
if one fifth cant locate the US on a map, I bet there were 4 other contestants looking at her shaking their heads.

gtjason2000
08-26-2007, 16:22
well do they have indoor plumbing in australia?

greyzen
08-26-2007, 16:33
1. What language do they speak in Japan?

2. Why don't they speak English?

3. Is Japan still a part of China? (that one really stopped me)


people in the US have asked me similar questions about australia.

1. Where did you learn English? You speak it so well!

2. Do they have indoor plumbing in australia?

etc. etc.
:smiley5:



Don't feel bad.. I've had people in american not understand why non-america could really care less about "4th of July" (also known as "America's Independence day"). People look at me incredulous and when I ask them why they honestly believe it is "common knowledge". So I ask them for what date Australia was founded... normally they get the point :D

namabiru
08-26-2007, 17:55
Naw, and I really do know I should be patient. After all, I had to consciously make a decision to learn more about the "outside world".

It's just that you really wonder how others perceive the world sometimes.

But it's not just the United States that does this either. When I worked in the school in Japan, I was often asked to make sweeping generalized statements regarding "American" customs. At first I went along with this, but then I started realizing that it's a bit of a disservice to pretend that all 300 million Americans do and think the same thing, because it's not true, and stopped doing so.

Ha ha--yeah, I have an Aussie friend, and she got complimented on her English ability one day. This was in Japan too. So definitely not just an "American" thing. Then again, there, there have been incidents of British people, or Irish people, or even Aussies or Kiwis being told their English isn't very good because they do not sound like Americans, or that they should learn how to speak English with an American accent because it is easier for their students. Wish I were kidding. Here are these teachers being recruited from native English-speaking countries to bring cultural and linguistic authenticity to the classroom, and then being told they should speak like Americans.

dludwig
08-26-2007, 19:27
And we wonder why "Johnny can't read" :smiley21:

Liv7301
08-26-2007, 21:17
This reminds me of what I get all the time from my students. They find out that I was originally from NYS and they assume that I am from the city, and that the entire state is just like NYC. I actually had a student (5th grader) try and argue with that with me when I said that I was from Western NY which is mostly dairy farms and vinyards.

Jaymeany
08-26-2007, 21:25
Spent 6 years in NC and SC, I eventually gave up on that question. My family is from the city so I could answer their questions. I think it is the infatuation with the big city. southern girls were interested in it too. :smiley2::smiley2:

porsche060
08-26-2007, 23:06
Without looking I think the question is a bit misleading. Americans could be all people from the Americas (North/South).



Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the United States on a world map.
Here's the reason (http://www.maniacworld.com/what-is-she-talking-about.html)

porsche060
08-26-2007, 23:08
Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the United States on a world map.
Here's the reason (http://www.maniacworld.com/what-is-she-talking-about.html)


Wonder how many "government" teachers can locate the US on a world map

cgvmer
08-26-2007, 23:13
Arghh!

the gooch
08-26-2007, 23:33
Sorry, hate to bash on our natives but down here in Miami I wonder how most of these @$$ munches even find their way home. It completely disgusts me to see an 18 year old driving a $150k Bentley coupe with his hat cocked sideways throwing gang signs up. This whole town is corrupt and it makes me sick. The only reason I am stuck in this hell hole is because my wife has an obligation for her residency at the inner city hospital here. ------don't even get me started on them....

Osprey
08-27-2007, 00:19
It baffles me that I'm younger than she is and sending money and writing the governments of places like Darfur and she can't even speak a full coherent sentence.

I'm not saying that to brag, I'm just really SAD this kind of stupid is on TV...

3rdEye
08-27-2007, 00:38
What....the....hell....

Vercingetorix
08-27-2007, 08:27
Without looking I think the question is a bit misleading. Americans could be all people from the Americas (North/South). Uh...you REALLY need to view the video before posting. Otherwise...

reservecops
08-27-2007, 08:27
Hey, look at the duck!

gtjason2000
08-27-2007, 08:34
I've always wondered how many people Jay Leno has to interview to get the stupid replies he needs for Jaywalking. I was hoping it was a lot but the way things are he probably has no problem finding ignorant people.

tedtim
08-27-2007, 09:19
.... As for the school system, they are to concerned with how political correct they are that they don't have time to teach them anything. The immigration laws have made it more important to teach a second language than to teach geography in our schools.There should be ample time in the curriculum to teach both.
I believe that if you come to live in the United States learn to speak English. Children are learning to speak foreign languages for places they can't find on a map. I have no argument with that stance, but there is still no reason for not learning world geography. The more informed you are about the world, the better you will understand what is happening even in your own back yard.
As for world peace, it can't be achieved as long as the problems of the United States exist, as the old saying goes we must clean up our own back yard before stepping into someone else's. The attack on World Trade Center made us strong for awhile, then we forgot again. It is a shame that it takes an act like that to make us strong and patriotic at least for awhile. We need to step back and look at the real problems that are right in front of us. Teach our children to stand for what is right and fight to change what is wrong.I suggest that "aware" would be a better word than "strong."
Who cares if they know how to read a world map if they are not going to be here to get there?Well, here are two short stories.

I was attending the USAF Staff College in 1994/95 when the political troubles were happening in Haiti. The US Airborne was set to go into Haiti, so this was a discussion point on the course. One of the USAF officers said she did not understand the problem and that the US could just surround the island. I told her I thought that one of the big problems was the sieve of a border they have. She looked at me without any understanding whatsoever. We pulled out an atlas and I showed her that the island she was referring to contains both Haiti and the Dominican Republic. BTW, this was a person with a graduate degree.

During the same year we had a group that was travelling to Atlanta to see an NFL game. One of our group had vehicle troubles and pulled into a service station on the side of the interstate. He related part of the conversation that he had with the owner. The owner could tell from his license plate that he was not from the local area, so he asked him what he was doing in that part of the country. My friend told him he was with the USAF and taking a course. The owner asked him where he was stationed before. It was Honolulu. The owner looked at my friend and asked him if that was in the United States.

I don't believe that this lack of knowledge of geography is in any way related to the internet.

tedtim
08-27-2007, 09:28
what a babiling moron

I think I would have learned to spell babbling before I called someone babbling.
Of course you would have (among other things).

Thank you...we have tried to teach her right from wrong, but of coarse once they grow up and are on their own...what can you do?

yankeefan21
08-27-2007, 15:55
During the same year we had a group that was travelling to Atlanta to see an NFL game. One of our group had vehicle troubles and pulled into a service station on the side of the interstate. He related part of the conversation that he had with the owner. The owner could tell from his license plate that he was not from the local area, so he asked him what he was doing in that part of the country. My friend told him he was with the USAF and taking a course. The owner asked him where he was stationed before. It was Honolulu. The owner looked at my friend and asked him if that was in the United States.

I don't believe that this lack of knowledge of geography is in any way related to the internet.
In fairness, Honolulu isn't a state and it would be really tough to drive from Honolulu to Atlanta...

Seriously, I don't think that is indicative of an educational crisis as much as it is a commentary on how important Hawaii is to some guy working in a service station in Georgia. I think a lot of learning happens through necessity. I wouldn’t have been able to point out Somalia on a map prior to 1993, for example, but I could nail it blindfolded now and break down several major areas and cities as well as the three countries that border it by land! Then again, why would I have cared to add the geography of Somalia to my memory banks? I was too busy trying to fumble my way through calculus – which in retrospect was probably a mistake because that stuff didn’t take! :smilie39:

Anyway, I really feel bad for Miss South Carolina because she went up there with an agenda and was thrown off by the question. All of a sudden, she is just talking and throwing out pertinent buzz words that had SOMETHING to do with the question [like Iraq and South Africa and education…] that she was trained to use then came up blank. Coming up with an intelligent answer on the spot in front of a huge audience is even less fun than a lot of people may think.

Try bombing in improve some time and let me know how that works out for you… :smiley20:

porsche060
08-27-2007, 16:31
Once again the answer is private or home school if you can afford it..

Alot of the people in my college with the lowest GPAs became teachers... I know alot of smart people that are teachers as well. However all it takes is 1-2 years with a bad teacher to set you back.

My 4th grader science teacher was like that. Only 4 kids out of the whole grade passed a state test. They couldn't fire him but re-assigned him to 2nd grade!

SilentEcho13
08-27-2007, 16:37
Haha what a BS answer (From south carolina)

scuba Widow
08-27-2007, 21:25
.... As for the school system, they are to concerned with how political correct they are that they don't have time to teach them anything. The immigration laws have made it more important to teach a second language than to teach geography in our schools.There should be ample time in the curriculum to teach both.
I believe that if you come to live in the United States learn to speak English. Children are learning to speak foreign languages for places they can't find on a map. I have no argument with that stance, but there is still no reason for not learning world geography. The more informed you are about the world, the better you will understand what is happening even in your own back yard.
As for world peace, it can't be achieved as long as the problems of the United States exist, as the old saying goes we must clean up our own back yard before stepping into someone else's. The attack on World Trade Center made us strong for awhile, then we forgot again. It is a shame that it takes an act like that to make us strong and patriotic at least for awhile. We need to step back and look at the real problems that are right in front of us. Teach our children to stand for what is right and fight to change what is wrong.I suggest that "aware" would be a better word than "strong."
Who cares if they know how to read a world map if they are not going to be here to get there?Well, here are two short stories.

I was attending the USAF Staff College in 1994/95 when the political troubles were happening in Haiti. The US Airborne was set to go into Haiti, so this was a discussion point on the course. One of the USAF officers said she did not understand the problem and that the US could just surround the island. I told her I thought that one of the big problems was the sieve of a border they have. She looked at me without any understanding whatsoever. We pulled out an atlas and I showed her that the island she was referring to contains both Haiti and the Dominican Republic. BTW, this was a person with a graduate degree.

During the same year we had a group that was travelling to Atlanta to see an NFL game. One of our group had vehicle troubles and pulled into a service station on the side of the interstate. He related part of the conversation that he had with the owner. The owner could tell from his license plate that he was not from the local area, so he asked him what he was doing in that part of the country. My friend told him he was with the USAF and taking a course. The owner asked him where he was stationed before. It was Honolulu. The owner looked at my friend and asked him if that was in the United States.

I don't believe that this lack of knowledge of geography is in any way related to the internet.

It seems that I have ruffled the feathers of Tedtim with my post and I guess I should say I’m sorry, but I’m not at all sorry. He chose to take some of my words and see what he wanted to see in their meaning. I never one time said that it was not important to teach geography.


I stated that we need to pay more attention to the important subjects, such as geography, reading, writing and math and less time to being political correct and foreign languages.



Do not misunderstand me there is a place in schools for learning other languages than English but it should only be done as an elective not as a requirement to graduate. I do feel that there are somethings that are really wrong with the school systems of America but there are somethings that are really right.


I don’t believe that schools are the place to teach morals and racism as is being done in most of our schools today.



You felt it was your duty to try to tell me what my feelings are in the fact that the word aware was better suited for my statement than the word strong. When in fact if we had been aware of the situation of the terrorists plot the attack wouldn't have happen to make us strong in the first place.



Now as for the two short stories that you decided to use to answer

my question about who cares, well, let me answer that question for you in my own words: You equated hospitality to the lack of knowledge. Did you know the gas station owner’s background or just figure he is from Georgia ? Did you ever stop to think that he may have had a reason not to know the information, such as not having the opportunity to go to school and learn because of family or military obligations?

My mother as always told me to walk a mile in somebody else's shoes before judging and I think you should do the same.

texarkandy
08-27-2007, 21:49
I agree. There's a lot of pressure to have kids perform well on tests that don't really measure individual improvement or understanding.

A little off topic, but since the topics seem to have gone over to "education" I'll add a little here

Living here in Texas - the "mecca" of the new testing/school accountability ideas - I used to be a big fan of school testing/accountability - now I'm not so sure.

How proud I was as my smart kid scored really high year after year on the TAKS test by which they rate schools here. (and the school rating is a "really big deal!!" to the administrators) Her school was really proud of her too.

Until I realized after a few years that her teachers had come to rely upon her to be a high-TAKS scoring student without having to work with her or push her at all, & started ignoring her & not challenging her because the teachers are all pushed by the administration to devote almost ALL of their time (esp. later in the year) to the (shall we say) "not-so-high-achieving" students to pull up their TAKS scores to make the school look good.

So the final result is all education gets dumbed down to whatever is on the TAKS test for each particular subject, & if a kid already has that down they're not going to get presented with anything more (at school anyway)

I recently read an article about how much money is getting pulled away from the GT/AP programs to devote to programs for the (shall we say) "not-so-high-achieving" students so schools can bring up their test scores/school ratings.

It seems one of the result of all of this new testing/school accountability stuff is that the system is geared to ignore the best & brightest.

(I've heard our school gets P.O.'d when you pull your high-scoring kid out & send them to the other District cause they're counting on those kids' TAKS scores to make themselves look good)

gtjason2000
08-27-2007, 21:56
I think the standardized tests are rediculous in texas. The one you have to take so you can graduate covered things I learned in 5th grade. Thats why I feel so bad when I found that some of my 'peers' had failed.

namabiru
08-27-2007, 23:03
Do not misunderstand me there is a place in schools for learning other languages than English but it should only be done as an elective not as a requirement to graduate. I do feel that there are somethings that are really wrong with the school systems of America but there are somethings that are really right.



Mmm... I have to respectfully disagree with you.

The average American is too sadly and hopelessly monolingual. To study another language is to learn cultural and social values of another society or ethnic group. Why is this important? Well, it hopefully begins to debunk the myth that America is the only worthwhile country out there, and that people in other countries do not spend their time wishing they were American instead of being French, or Spanish, or German, or Thai.

There is this underlying attitude, or I find anyway, that different = bad, or uncivilized, or not as good as America. And that's just wrong.

That's where a lot of fighting comes from. Cultures which do not understand one another, or do not have the patience to try to learn. This is a universal transgression, though-- not just an American one. However, why should Americans wait for others to change? The first step to change is to change yourself.

namabiru
08-27-2007, 23:17
I don’t believe that schools are the place to teach morals and racism as is being done in most of our schools today.


I will, however, agree with you on this part.

It's interesting how there is a lot of indirect, and perhaps not-so-useful, moral education/socialization taking place in schools. Some of this is courtesy of the government. Flag worshipping for one.

It wouldn't be so bad to teach morals and good manners, such as greeting others, holding doors for older people, giving up your seat for someone older on the bus, saying 'excuse me', or 'thank you', or 'please', or 'I'm sorry'. Words, I'm quite sad to report, which have disappeared from society. When is the last time you've been to a shop and heard a 'hello' from the cashier, or a 'thank you' after the transaction? These words are still quite commonly-used in Montana, even at busy times; however, I'm afraid Tucson residents who work in shops do not know how to use them. And, yes, my Montana socialization combined with Japanese socialization caused me to cringe every time these common courtesies were overlooked.

You can argue that mainstream people don't do any of these things in American society anymore, so why bother worrying about it?

You're right.

It's hard to ask for these things to be taught in the school when the teachers don't do them either. The old 'do as I say, not as I do' argument. If a first-grader sees their teacher take food from the lunch lady without saying 'thank you', why would the first-grader then use 'thank you' either, unless the first-grader had parents who was teaching these morals at home.

Change, though, is a slow thing.

divechaplain-sara
08-27-2007, 23:25
While Miss Teen SC, may not have been able to give a good answer to why 20% of American's can't find home on a world map, and while she stumbled around trying to say politically correct things, I would be willing to bet serious money that the morals namabiru reffered to (or just common courtesy as most Southerners would call it) are second nature to her.

namabiru
08-27-2007, 23:30
How proud I was as my smart kid scored really high year after year on the TAKS test by which they rate schools here. (and the school rating is a "really big deal!!" to the administrators) Her school was really proud of her too.

Until I realized after a few years that her teachers had come to rely upon her to be a high-TAKS scoring student without having to work with her or push her at all, & started ignoring her & not challenging her because the teachers are all pushed by the administration to devote almost ALL of their time (esp. later in the year) to the (shall we say) "not-so-high-achieving" students to pull up their TAKS scores to make the school look good.

So the final result is all education gets dumbed down to whatever is on the TAKS test for each particular subject, & if a kid already has that down they're not going to get presented with anything more (at school anyway)
It seems one of the result of all of this new testing/school accountability stuff is that the system is geared to ignore the best & brightest.



Yep. I was one of those who didn't really get challenged at school either. I got into trouble a lot, probably out of boredom. Then I got to college. Thank god I went to a small college, where the professors saw a lot of students like me, and were able to help me get to college-level thinking and then excel in courses. I'm still grateful, though, to two high-school teachers who said to hell with the mold, and challenged me.

We don't really have standardized testing like this in Montana, but it really is a similar scenario. Big schools have money to offer students more activities and classes. Some even have AP courses. I remember asking, more than once, if I could please go to school in Missoula rather than my podunk school of 83 students.

Here's a different take on it though.

There's no money to fund AP courses. There's no money to buy nice science equipment, or updated calculators for the math department, or to repair the saxophone which got dented on accident. The English department begs funds to publish its yearbook, and shop kids often furnish their own supplies, including nails.

However, the football team got new uniforms, and their poor academic performance is overlooked since they've won 3 state championships. Community folk who, 5 years ago, could have given a rip less about football are suddenly on the bandwagon, ranting and raving about how wonderful it all is, happily shelling out $5 for tickets.

The new expensive gym got a nice expensive wax job, but regular PE classes are banished to the old gym, which is a fire trap and accident waiting to happen.

The three-year-old basketballs weren't good enough for the boys' team to use, even though it will take more than new basketballs to turn them into NBA champions.

Now you tell me where an average school's priorities are, and where the money goes.

It's like the Simpsons episode "Lisa on Ice", where Marge tells Lisa that not being good in sports is okay. Then Homer troops in, chanting "Sports sports sports sports... Bart gets to sit in front because he's good at sports."

gtjason2000
08-28-2007, 08:21
She will get a second chance to answer the question on the Today show today. Apparently she is a varsity athlete with a 3.5 gpa. Now my high school the gpa went up to 6.0 for a 100 in ap classes and 5.0 for level classes so my gpa was something like 4.9. Hopefully she has a 3.5 on a 4.0 scale.

mike_s
08-28-2007, 08:32
She was interviewed by Matt Lauer on the TODAY SHOW this morning. She was clueless.

They showed her answer before they talked to her. Ironically she said it was the first time she'd seen the video of it.


now... we all know she's clueless, but watch and she'll get some major deal out of all the publicity.

Harshal
08-28-2007, 10:41
I think question was a stupid and in appropriate one for the event.
Why the heck should she know that why students are not able to find US, and even if she would have answer to it, how was she supposed to explain it to the judge how our education system is messed up in 2 min.
If the problem was so small it would had been resolved long time back.

Any thoughts comments………

Vercingetorix
08-28-2007, 10:52
Harshal,

I agree with you. Unless she's an Education major and has studied this topic, she wouldn't be able to answer it. Under pressure, the question is even more challenging. Unfortunately, it made national television ad the internet.

mike_s
08-28-2007, 11:34
I think question was a stupid and in appropriate one for the event.
Why the heck should she know that why students are not able to find US, and even if she would have answer to it, how was she supposed to explain it to the judge how our education system is messed up in 2 min.
If the problem was so small it would had been resolved long time back.

Any thoughts comments………



I think most of the questions they ask are stupid for the event. Most of those events are stupid.... it goes hand in hand.

they all try to answer with the most politically correct answer they can. The answer usually just compliments the question. It's just a big ass-kissing cermemony.

JugglingMonkeys
08-28-2007, 11:41
I feel very sorry for this poor lady.
The video is all over the web and even the news.

thesmoothdome
08-28-2007, 11:49
I feel very sorry for this poor lady.
The video is all over the web and even the news.

She wanted to be famous...now she is :).

yankeefan21
08-28-2007, 11:51
I have a fundamental problem with the question itself; the question is based on a conclusion that you may or may not agree with. What if you don't think the survey was correct? How can you validate the findings of the survey? How was the survey conducted? Who were the respondents to the survey? Where was the survey conducted?

If this survey was given to a 4th grade class in Miami, Florida that consisted almost entirely of Cuban and Haitian refugees, maybe a 20% “failure” rate isn’t that bad?

Granted, she should have been able to show more poise and thoughtfulness under pressure, but let’s give her a break.

greyzen
08-28-2007, 11:55
I have a fundamental problem with the question itself; the question is based on a conclusion that you may or may not agree with. What if you don't think the survey was correct? How can you validate the findings of the survey? How was the survey conducted? Who were the respondents to the survey? Where was the survey conducted?

If this survey was given to a 4th grade class in Miami, Florida that consisted almost entirely of Cuban and Haitian refugees, maybe a 20% “failure” rate isn’t that bad?

Granted, she should have been able to show more poise and thoughtfulness under pressure, but let’s give her a break.


And what sucks is if she had asked those questions, she would have been penalized for being mean or dodging the question.

yankeefan21
08-28-2007, 11:57
And what sucks is if she had asked those questions, she would have been penalized for being mean or dodging the question.
Exactly.

texarkandy
08-28-2007, 12:07
......... Seriously, I don't think that is indicative of an educational crisis as much as it is a commentary on how important Hawaii is to some guy working in a service station in Georgia. ........


Unless of course he were a diver or a surfer! :smilie39:

yankeefan21
08-28-2007, 12:10
......... Seriously, I don't think that is indicative of an educational crisis as much as it is a commentary on how important Hawaii is to some guy working in a service station in Georgia. ........


Unless of course he were a diver or a surfer! :smilie39:
I'll drink to that! :smiley20:

mike_s
08-28-2007, 12:11
I feel very sorry for this poor lady.
The video is all over the web and even the news.


I don't. this was self inflicted.


However she looks like she's taking lemons and making lemonaid. She's on several morning talk shows and interviews now.

This will only promote her "career". go figure.


(ya know... if she was fat, ugly, disabled, etc, the media splatz about this would have been much less. Another "go figure").

yankeefan21
08-28-2007, 12:14
I feel very sorry for this poor lady.
The video is all over the web and even the news.
(ya know... if she was fat, ugly, disabled, etc, the media splatz about this would have been much less. Another "go figure").
She also wouldn't have been in that position to begin with because... well... she was fat, ugly, disabled, etc.

But you make a good point.

Charlotte Smith
08-28-2007, 12:29
At the very least this was a different news item as compared to what we usually have to watch.....I wasn't even aware of her "question", much less her inability to answer it because I have gotten so fed up with the "news" channels these days .......I don't even watch...I just go diving!

Harshal
08-28-2007, 12:50
I think question was a stupid and in appropriate one for the event.
Why the heck should she know that why students are not able to find US, and even if she would have answer to it, how was she supposed to explain it to the judge how our education system is messed up in 2 min.
If the problem was so small it would had been resolved long time back.

Any thoughts comments………



I think most of the questions they ask are stupid for the event. Most of those events are stupid.... it goes hand in hand.

they all try to answer with the most politically correct answer they can. The answer usually just compliments the question. It's just a big ass-kissing cermemony.

I totally agree with you, but most of the time you know they ask something like a contestant's opinion or what they would do or what they think.

I think the person who asked this question is more stupid then this 18yr old.

Harshal
08-28-2007, 12:54
At the very least this was a different news item as compared to what we usually have to watch.....I wasn't even aware of her "question", much less her inability to answer it because I have gotten so fed up with the "news" channels these days .......I don't even watch...I just go diving!

I know, I was not even aware of it either until it started showing up in news media.
I was surprised though all reporters were making fun of her, but non of the reporter had guts to critize the judge who is asking such a stupid question. I don't think she was education minister that she would know why only 20% students can locate US on the world map.

Harshal
08-28-2007, 12:55
I feel very sorry for this poor lady.
The video is all over the web and even the news.
(ya know... if she was fat, ugly, disabled, etc, the media splatz about this would have been much less. Another "go figure").
She also wouldn't have been in that position to begin with because... well... she was fat, ugly, disabled, etc.

But you make a good point.

Yep true, this will give her more publicity then she would had won the contest. ( I am assuming she didn't win, I didn't watch it):smiley36:

quarrydiver
08-28-2007, 21:49
I agree. There's a lot of pressure to have kids perform well on tests that don't really measure individual improvement or understanding.

A little off topic, but since the topics seem to have gone over to "education" I'll add a little here

Living here in Texas - the "mecca" of the new testing/school accountability ideas - I used to be a big fan of school testing/accountability - now I'm not so sure.

How proud I was as my smart kid scored really high year after year on the TAKS test by which they rate schools here. (and the school rating is a "really big deal!!" to the administrators) Her school was really proud of her too.

Until I realized after a few years that her teachers had come to rely upon her to be a high-TAKS scoring student without having to work with her or push her at all, & started ignoring her & not challenging her because the teachers are all pushed by the administration to devote almost ALL of their time (esp. later in the year) to the (shall we say) "not-so-high-achieving" students to pull up their TAKS scores to make the school look good.

So the final result is all education gets dumbed down to whatever is on the TAKS test for each particular subject, & if a kid already has that down they're not going to get presented with anything more (at school anyway)

I recently read an article about how much money is getting pulled away from the GT/AP programs to devote to programs for the (shall we say) "not-so-high-achieving" students so schools can bring up their test scores/school ratings.

It seems one of the result of all of this new testing/school accountability stuff is that the system is geared to ignore the best & brightest.

(I've heard our school gets P.O.'d when you pull your high-scoring kid out & send them to the other District cause they're counting on those kids' TAKS scores to make themselves look good)

Exactly, teachers have no choice but to do this. Their jobs depend upon it. There has to be a better way to hold bad teachers accountable and give the good teachers more freedom.

scuba Widow
08-28-2007, 22:12
Do not misunderstand me there is a place in schools for learning other languages than English but it should only be done as an elective not as a requirement to graduate. I do feel that there are somethings that are really wrong with the school systems of America but there are somethings that are really right.



Mmm... I have to respectfully disagree with you.

The average American is too sadly and hopelessly monolingual. To study another language is to learn cultural and social values of another society or ethnic group. Why is this important? Well, it hopefully begins to debunk the myth that America is the only worthwhile country out there, and that people in other countries do not spend their time wishing they were American instead of being French, or Spanish, or German, or Thai.

There is this underlying attitude, or I find anyway, that different = bad, or uncivilized, or not as good as America. And that's just wrong.

That's where a lot of fighting comes from. Cultures which do not understand one another, or do not have the patience to try to learn. This is a universal transgression, though-- not just an American one. However, why should Americans wait for others to change? The first step to change is to change yourself.

I wanted to Thank You for the respectful way you responded to my post. I do understand what you are saying, however I do feel that schools are making learning a foreign language more important here in the United States, than children learning to speak English. The fact is that if you live in the United States you should speak English. There are alot of American jobs being lost by very deserving Americans because we as a whole have to be bilingual and that is unfair. I am not saying don't teach the foreign languages, just make the native language of the region that you live in more important, that goes for anywhere in the world.

texarkandy
08-29-2007, 06:50
I heard they polled the other contestants as to the response & 4 out of 5 thought it was a good answer and "like totally!!" understood what she said

tedtim
08-29-2007, 07:49
It seems that I have ruffled the feathers of Tedtim with my post and I guess I should say I’m sorry, but I’m not at all sorry. He chose to take some of my words and see what he wanted to see in their meaning. I never one time said that it was not important to teach geography.Interesting how strong the written word is.
I stated that we need to pay more attention to the important subjects, such as geography, reading, writing and math and less time to being political correct and foreign languages.I refer to your last statment regarding walking a mile in someone else's shoes. One of the reasons for studying politics and foreign languages is to get a better understanding of other cultures. If you study the language simply to learn to speak, then the context of what you say may be taken differently.
Do not misunderstand me there is a place in schools for learning other languages than English but it should only be done as an elective not as a requirement to graduate. I do feel that there are somethings that are really wrong with the school systems of America but there are somethings that are really right.Note that I did not say anywhere that a second language should be a requirement to graduate.
I don’t believe that schools are the place to teach morals and racism as is being done in most of our schools today.I won't make any comment on that.

You felt it was your duty to try to tell me what my feelings are in the fact that the word aware was better suited for my statement than the word strong. When in fact if we had been aware of the situation of the terrorists plot the attack wouldn't have happen to make us strong in the first place.The is ample evidence in the open source media that indicates that there was sufficient warning of an impending attack on the United States. I was not trying to tell you what your feelings are. So, now you are interpreting my words in the way you want.
Now as for the two short stories that you decided to use to answer

my question about who cares, well, let me answer that question for you in my own words: You equated hospitality to the lack of knowledge. Did you know the gas station owner’s background or just figure he is from Georgia ? Did you ever stop to think that he may have had a reason not to know the information, such as not having the opportunity to go to school and learn because of family or military obligations?

My mother as always told me to walk a mile in somebody else's shoes before judging and I think you should do the same.:smilie39: I did not equate hospitality to the lack of knowledge. I just illustrated a situation where there was a clear lack of knowledge. "not having the opportunity to go to school" Does this mean never having gone to school. Sorry, but where I went to school learning the state and provincial capitals was something done very early on.

You have no idea of my past, where I was born, where I was raised, or my family situation. How do you know that I do not have a point of reference.

drdiver
08-29-2007, 07:58
Having recently remarried and am now bringing up a 13 year old, it is interesting to see what they know as compared to my first two who are now 26 and 23. There is a definite reduction in hard core knowledge given at school. I've never been a big fan of the TAKS testing here in Texas and I'm definitely not a fan of "education" course ideas about education. They just don't seem to do enough rote learning these days. IMHO.

georoc01
08-29-2007, 08:34
I feel very sorry for this poor lady.
The video is all over the web and even the news.
(ya know... if she was fat, ugly, disabled, etc, the media splatz about this would have been much less. Another "go figure").
She also wouldn't have been in that position to begin with because... well... she was fat, ugly, disabled, etc.

But you make a good point.

Yep true, this will give her more publicity then she would had won the contest. ( I am assuming she didn't win, I didn't watch it):smiley36:

No she didn't. Miss Colorado did. But like you said, its not like anyone will remember that.

greyzen
08-29-2007, 10:31
Having recently remarried and am now bringing up a 13 year old, it is interesting to see what they know as compared to my first two who are now 26 and 23. There is a definite reduction in hard core knowledge given at school. I've never been a big fan of the TAKS testing here in Texas and I'm definitely not a fan of "education" course ideas about education. They just don't seem to do enough rote learning these days. IMHO.


I'm only 29, and I see the decline.

My mother remarried when I was 11, and I have two siblings (one started college a few days ago, the other started highschool).

They are both good and studious kids. My mother and step-father were both very involved with their education and you can tell. My sister (the college kid) graduated highschool with all honors and was like number 6 or 8 in her class.

The level of education both of them received was not as complete as mine, though I was in their situation only a few years ago. The school district blames it on the growth of the city they live in. I went to Dallas schools, they go to country schools...

I blame it on the decline of American culture. They lower the bar to improve their image (passing/failing, overall GPA, etc.) and the students learn less so they have to lower the bar more. My sister took her education somewhat seriously, but who is to say some of the kids that graduated with her took it as seriously.

I'm reminded of a joke.

Q: "What do you call the student who graduates in last place in medical school?"

A: "Doctor"

scuba Widow
08-30-2007, 00:24
It seems that I have ruffled the feathers of Tedtim with my post and I guess I should say I’m sorry, but I’m not at all sorry. He chose to take some of my words and see what he wanted to see in their meaning. I never one time said that it was not important to teach geography.Interesting how strong the written word is.
I stated that we need to pay more attention to the important subjects, such as geography, reading, writing and math and less time to being political correct and foreign languages.I refer to your last statment regarding walking a mile in someone else's shoes. One of the reasons for studying politics and foreign languages is to get a better understanding of other cultures. If you study the language simply to learn to speak, then the context of what you say may be taken differently.
Do not misunderstand me there is a place in schools for learning other languages than English but it should only be done as an elective not as a requirement to graduate. I do feel that there are somethings that are really wrong with the school systems of America but there are somethings that are really right.Note that I did not say anywhere that a second language should be a requirement to graduate.
I don’t believe that schools are the place to teach morals and racism as is being done in most of our schools today.I won't make any comment on that.

You felt it was your duty to try to tell me what my feelings are in the fact that the word aware was better suited for my statement than the word strong. When in fact if we had been aware of the situation of the terrorists plot the attack wouldn't have happen to make us strong in the first place.The is ample evidence in the open source media that indicates that there was sufficient warning of an impending attack on the United States. I was not trying to tell you what your feelings are. So, now you are interpreting my words in the way you want.
Now as for the two short stories that you decided to use to answer

my question about who cares, well, let me answer that question for you in my own words: You equated hospitality to the lack of knowledge. Did you know the gas station owner’s background or just figure he is from Georgia ? Did you ever stop to think that he may have had a reason not to know the information, such as not having the opportunity to go to school and learn because of family or military obligations?

My mother as always told me to walk a mile in somebody else's shoes before judging and I think you should do the same.:smilie39: I did not equate hospitality to the lack of knowledge. I just illustrated a situation where there was a clear lack of knowledge. "not having the opportunity to go to school" Does this mean never having gone to school. Sorry, but where I went to school learning the state and provincial capitals was something done very early on.

You have no idea of my past, where I was born, where I was raised, or my family situation. How do you know that I do not have a point of reference.

You know I thought about coming in here and trying to reason with you, but seeing your " clear lack of knowledge" all I am going to say is my mother taught me not to argue with a fool because an innocent bystander may not know the difference....therefore, this will be my last response to you on this subject.

Xspect
08-30-2007, 06:32
that is just sad

texarkandy
08-30-2007, 06:37
Am I on ScubaBoard?


Soooooo. Anybody diving this weekend? I need to find a good underwater map of CS Scuba Park in Terrell, TX.

tedtim
08-30-2007, 08:57
You know I thought about coming in here and trying to reason with you, but seeing your " clear lack of knowledge" all I am going to say is my mother taught me not to argue with a fool because an innocent bystander may not know the difference....therefore, this will be my last response to you on this subject.So, when you have a disagreement on a point of view with someone it appears you believe they are a fool.


I am going diving.

yankeefan21
08-30-2007, 10:04
I wonder if each passing generation feels as though the current generation has a reduction in learning standards.

I will say that my friends who ARE teachers are very frustrated by the no child left behind initiative. They feel as though it forces them to teach to the weakest student at the detriment of the smartest student. I don't know, though, because I live in an area rich with highly rated school districts and I see students with educational opportunities I could have only DREAMED about. Each month, for example, our University hosts a number of Juniors and Seniors from local high schools to participate in different science experiments. The exposure they get is amazing. I am also constantly surprised by how technically savvy each incoming freshman class is. These kids know things about computers and networking that I was just learning about in college.

So, are students less intelligent or just learning about different things? I think probably the latter.

yankeefan21
08-30-2007, 10:13
By the way, if you REALLY think that our educational system is falling a part, go watch a few episodes of "Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader." I think you will find it to be a humbling experience!

drdiver
08-30-2007, 10:23
So, are students less intelligent or just learning about different things? I think probably the latter.

I think they are learning different things, but they are not learning things that are core values for our civilization. I don't think they are less intelligent although I'm not sure of the effect of all those video games.:smiley23:

yankeefan21
08-30-2007, 10:41
I don't think they are less intelligent although I'm not sure of the effect of all those video games.:smiley23:
It's rotting their brain just like TV rotted mine and radio rotted my father's... :smiley2:


"Gamers did spend less time reading and doing homework. But they didn't spend less time interacting with their parents or their friends, nor did they spend less time in sports or active leisure activities," said Hope Cummings of the University of Michigan, whose study appears in the Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine.

They also said the findings indicate that video game play can be a distraction from school-related activities, but that may not hurt grades.
"Although gamers spend less time reading and doing homework, there have been some studies that show that high academic achievers spend less time doing homework," Cummings said.

"Gamers may actually be more effective in completing homework assignments, and as a result, they spend less time doing homework. We need to look deeper into what is going on," she said.



Some who've studied the subject say, surprisingly, video games, played in moderation, can actually help young people develop mental skills that will serve them well in adult life.

"It's not the button pushing that's important," says Mitch Wade, an information consultant for firms like Google and Rand Corp., who co-wrote a recent book called “Got Game.” "It's the problem-solving. And we saw that when we surveyed professionals who grew up playing video games. What's a surprise is that they're better at things you need in business — like team play and careful risk-taking."

greyzen
08-30-2007, 11:04
I'm well out of school and I still don't see the value of overloading each student with homework.

The teachers seem to tends towards outdoing one another on the homework front. All the kids are bringing home tons of "do it on your own" work due to the lack of overall teacher presence in the school per student.

You can't hope to teach 50 children with the same level of effectiveness as you can teach 20... so they lump on the homework and make the parents do it. As someone who watched his mother go through elementary school and junior high twice after me, I can tell you it isn't as effective.

Kids no longer fear the system, they manipulate the system. Kids don't learn half as much as they did even 10 years ago. I'm not someone who graduated in the 70s...

The kids and the system have changed. but unfortunately neither side is owning up to it. Sites like wikipedia/google/yahoo make most term papers obsolete and teachers use 'tried and true' methods to teach kids that no longer come from the same backgrounds those methods worked to manipulate.

yankeefan21
08-30-2007, 11:47
Sites like wikipedia/google/yahoo make most term papers obsolete and teachers use 'tried and true' methods to teach kids that no longer come from the same backgrounds those methods worked to manipulate.
This is a very good point. Teaching methods certainly need to evolve beyond their current state in order to CATCH UP [not keep up] with existing technology.

Then again, I could argue that wikipedia/google/yahoo make it HARDER on a student when it comes to research papers. With so much information out there, you are now EXPECTED to have tons of information in your paper which allows the focus of the grading to shift back towards determining if the student understands key concepts rather than their ability to "fact find." Ultimately, learning research and writing concepts is far more important than the subject they are writing about, agreed?

Harshal
08-30-2007, 11:52
By the way, if you REALLY think that our educational system is falling a part, go watch a few episodes of "Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader." I think you will find it to be a humbling experience!

Its a good show, but I really don't know if that could be used as a benchmark. Is that show made up or is it real is the big question.
I enjoy watching the show and laughing my butt off, personally I have not gone thru primary education in US, my later college education was in US.

I can tell from my experience, I feel schools here in US focus more on other activities like arts and sports, which is not the case in other countries.
I have seen my most American counterparts struggling in class where they have to deal with Math / Science( specially Chem), but they are very good at writing a creative English Paper or doing a presentation.

So there is both good and bad and like you cannot make everyone happy, there cannot be a perfect education system either.

greyzen
08-30-2007, 11:59
This is a very good point. Teaching methods certainly need to evolve beyond their current state in order to CATCH UP [not keep up] with existing technology.

100% agree, it is the same as having a 100 yr old women try to explain something to a teenager, relating across that gap is very difficult.



Then again, I could argue that wikipedia/google/yahoo make it HARDER on a student when it comes to research papers. With so much information out there, you are now EXPECTED to have tons of information in your paper which allows the focus of the grading to shift back towards determining if the student understands key concepts rather than their ability to "fact find." Ultimately, learning research and writing concepts is far more important than the subject they are writing about, agreed?

I believe that the papers are obsolete do to the sheer volume of information out there. How hard is it par down 500,000 doctoral thesis on the migration patterns of the African Swallow to provide a four page paper using your own words. The poor kids don't stand a chance, and since that is their perception they struggle needlessly.

The 'power' of the internet has really changed the mood of classrooms. For years teachers did not have to really be experts in the field they taught, they only need to know slightly more than the student. Now, if they aren't 100% exposed to their subject kids can easily catch them and as such... the controlling member of the meeting (classroom) has changed.

But, like with most things, the older adults know more than the younger generations so instead of embracing the change and trying to figure out a way to harness it, they fight against it and the students suffer (which causes a spiral)

greyzen
08-30-2007, 12:04
By the way, if you REALLY think that our educational system is falling a part, go watch a few episodes of "Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader." I think you will find it to be a humbling experience!

Snopes has a good article on that mirroring what I believe to be the actual
primer for that show:
http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp


To summarize:
If you don't use a skill everyday you will of course loose it. 5th graders are using stuff that is asked on the show daily. We use it when we are on the show.


Also, it is highly unlikely that they allow just anyone on the show. The screener's are probably putting specific personalities on the show...most likely people who have ironic or coincidental professions and school backgrounds who test poorly.

gtjason2000
08-30-2007, 12:08
I did not find the show to be particularly humbling and actually quite boring, never watched it again. The questions were so easy well a 5th grader could answer them.

yankeefan21
08-30-2007, 13:48
Snopes has a good article on that mirroring what I believe to be the actual
primer for that show:
http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp


To summarize:
If you don't use a skill everyday you will of course loose it. 5th graders are using stuff that is asked on the show daily. We use it when we are on the show.
Excellent link. I agree wholeheartedly. I am also of the opinion that education has to evolve with the times. Why should I learn to use a slide rule when I have much faster/better tools at my disposal? Also, a student may no longer know how many feet there are in a rod but they could tell you how many MB there are in a GB - which illustrates application of the exact same principal being taught here.

Capt Hook
08-30-2007, 15:18
Hey, gentle now, she may be a future Senator!
Or worse yet President!

Harshal
08-30-2007, 15:52
Hey, gentle now, she may be a future Senator!
Or worse yet President!
lol nice one..........:smilie39:

gtjason2000
08-30-2007, 16:55
women can't be presidents:smiley2:

Vercingetorix
08-30-2007, 17:03
women can't be presidents:smiley2:Damned right!

Here in Texas, we've got a saying:

Texas...where the men are MEN...and the women are Governors, Senators, and Mayors.

:smilie39:

bullshark
08-30-2007, 17:32
By the way, if you REALLY think that our educational system is falling a part, go watch a few episodes of "Are You Smarter than a 5th Grader." I think you will find it to be a humbling experience!


Well I can say hat I've met kids in middle school that think George Washington is still the president today

yankeefan21
08-31-2007, 13:07
Well I can say hat I've met kids in middle school that think George Washington is still the president today
You need to get out of PG County. :smilie39:

Charlotte Smith
08-31-2007, 14:07
At the very least this was a different news item as compared to what we usually have to watch.....I wasn't even aware of her "question", much less her inability to answer it because I have gotten so fed up with the "news" channels these days .......I don't even watch...I just go diving!

I know, I was not even aware of it either until it started showing up in news media.
I was surprised though all reporters were making fun of her, but non of the reporter had guts to critize the judge who is asking such a stupid question. I don't think she was education minister that she would know why only 20% students can locate US on the world map.


They are just giving someone else a break.....

bullshark
08-31-2007, 18:16
Well I can say hat I've met kids in middle school that think George Washington is still the president today
You need to get out of PG County. :smilie39:



Actually I don't live to far outside Baltimore City

scubasamurai
08-31-2007, 19:51
all in all, it is pretty sad we can find our way underwater in foreign waters, but can't find our own states damm i shouldn't have moved to mexico

Suther2136
08-31-2007, 21:13
This comes from a well known syndrome that starts when someone named Amy spells her name Aimee! Notice how the blondness traveled instantly from the questioner to the contestant. Science is still looking for a cure, the military is trying to exploit this method of communication to flush blonde terrorists from hiding.