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skippy11
08-26-2007, 19:44
My friends are PADI certified and I am currently going through a YMCA open water cert. class. Is there much difference between the two? Since my certification is different, is it known/recognized globally too?

Just wondering. Thanks

porsche060
08-26-2007, 19:50
YMCA is usually a multi-week class.

Padi can be as easy as watching a video and getting your cert in 2 days or multi-week as well. There are alot of resorts which basically hand you the cert. It's bigger so the quality vary.

NAUI in contrast is smaller, but tends to be look at in a better light cause the class and knowledge required "is usually" more than PADI. However it's the instructor who makes the difference

My advice is go with the instructor you feel most comfortable with.

WV Diver
08-26-2007, 19:52
Most agencies have similar cert requirements. As far a being recognized globally, it should be as far as getting tanks and booking charters. Keep in mind that if you decide to go on to Divemaster or Instructor you may have an easier time traveling around and finding jobs with a PADI cert.

Oh look, I'm a grouper. :smiley20::smiley32::smiley2:

skippy11
08-26-2007, 20:00
Thanks! So, far my class has been awesome!! You are right, it is a multi week course. We have 4 class sessions, 3 pool sessions, and our check out dives are over the course of two days.

As far as the instructor, he has been awesome. Our class is small, but has developed a cohesivness that has made learning fun.

I just wanted to make sure that my certification would be okay. When I have told people YMCA, they sometimes look at me funny; like what is that.

somewhereinla
08-26-2007, 20:00
It really depends what you are looking for. If you want an easy and quick certification, Padi is a good choice. Actually Padi even offers an online course.
If you want better training and be a safer diver then Naui, YMCA, SSi would be better choices.

in_cavediver
08-26-2007, 20:13
It really depends what you are looking for. If you want an easy and quick certification, Padi is a good choice. Actually Padi even offers an online course.
If you want better training and be a safer diver then Naui, YMCA, SSi would be better choices.

I disagree. With few exceptions (LA county), all of the major agencies have roughly the same requirements. Its possible to get an excellent PADI class and a poor PADI class. Its equally possible to do the same with any other agency. Its the instructor that makes the difference here, not the agency.

Now, wanting to compare bare minimums on standards, well most everybody has issues I'd like to see corrected. (missing stuff etc). PADI, since its very structured in how and what is taught, has the most issues. That said, ALL of the standards I have read have issues so its not a bash PADI post.

Jaymeany
08-26-2007, 20:39
PADI has treated me well and I believe I am a very safe diver. I really don't like the PADI bashing (not quoting anyone specific so no need for anyone to get defensive) My instructor is great and I feel that when you Bash PADI you are bashing him. Just my opinion.

WV Diver
08-26-2007, 20:43
I have certs with IDEA, YMCA, PADI, and DAN and to echo what has been said already, the instructor makes the class regardless of the agency.

thesmoothdome
08-26-2007, 20:56
I was PADI trained and instructed for them for a few years as well. I'm not too fond of some of the training, such as budy breathing, being removed, but I know that I was trained well and I trained others well. PADI, as a whole, is a good agency. As others have said, it's the instructor that makes the course, not the agency.

Back to the OP's question, there is nothing wrong with a YMCA certification. They've been certifying divers for over 40 years and are affliated with CMAS as well. Enjoy your class.

Phestr
08-26-2007, 21:25
The one thing nobody ever mentions is that while the agency matters little, and the instructors drive the training, the student has no little on whether they receive adequate training. Is it possible to get a good education with crappy teachers? Absolutely! If you are dedicated, and have access to good resources (ST Forum, seasoned divers that may not be instructors), then you can overcome shortfalls in any curriculum.

Rascal1933
08-26-2007, 21:32
O.K. I am in Total agreement with the points members have already made

(1) It's the instructor that makes the course, not the agency!

(2) My advice is go with the instructor you feel most comfortable with.

There was a post on another Board,about even going as far as Interviewing your Instructior before taking a class.

Sounds kinda awkward to do,but maybe not a bad idea at all.

porsche060
08-26-2007, 23:10
Agree with Padi remark in most cases, however it depends on the instructor


It really depends what you are looking for. If you want an easy and quick certification, Padi is a good choice. Actually Padi even offers an online course.
If you want better training and be a safer diver then Naui, YMCA, SSi would be better choices.

Zenagirl
08-27-2007, 07:51
I agree 100%....IT'S ALL ABOUT THE INSTRUCTOR.

I'm a teacher and in the high school I used to work at we had 3 teachers teaching US History. They all taught the same curriculum with the same standards. One teacher brought history alive and his students consistently scored very high on standard tests and loved history. Another teacher was all about reading the book and doing worksheets and his students consistently scored poorly on tests (they also compared him to Ben Stein!). The third teacher was somewhere in between and had mixed results in testing, but was more like the first teacher than the second.

Same agency standards, same curriculum, same subject.......different instructors who had different levels of PERSONAL standards.

Kingpatzer
08-27-2007, 09:43
If you want better training and be a safer diver then Naui, YMCA, SSi would be better choices.

Newly certified OW from any agency is is not "safe."

At best they're "not dangerous," and even that is pushing it sometimes. And it doesn't matter what agency they use.

I'm no expert diver, I have plenty I don't know and am getting better at. But I've seen NAUI and SSI certified divers floundering along with totally crappy boyuancy too. But since PADI certifies more divers, you see more PADI divers doing it. That doesn't mean PADI courses are always worse.

Frankly, from what I've seen, it seems to me the real divider is not agency, but geography.

If a diver got their OW on a warm coast or island, they probably aren't half the diver someone who learned in a mud puddle in the mid-west is or someone who learned in cold ocean water is. Cold and zero vis means the instructors there can't tolerate as much BS from students as instructors from warm water sites can.

Also, of course, there's the resort factor. Warm water sites have a business model that requires they pass people to get more money. Cold water sites have a business model that requires they not kill people to get more money.

georoc01
08-27-2007, 10:51
Getting certified I compare to getting a learner's permit to drive a vehicle. You know the basics to get started, gone through a quick checkout and lets go! I know I am a better diver after 30 dives than I was after my 4, and still have a ways to go.

A warm water diver may be better just because they get more opportunities to dive. I know I have made an effort to get wet every month since I took my first class in December and now with the winter months coming, I will probably end up cutting back.

skippy11
08-27-2007, 11:33
I appreciate the inlightenment. I wasn't out to bash any of the agencies, just wanted to make sure the path I had choosen was okay.

I was a little apprehensive about taking a Resort Course b/c it goes so fast, I was afraid I wouldn't retain the knowledge. So, I waited until we were back in the states and called a local instructor.

The class time and pool time is over the course of 4 weeks, then check out dives are held in Terrell, Tx. It seems like a long time, but it has actually passed very quickly.

My instructor has been very patient and thorough. He is egar to ensure the safety of the new divers through indepth exercieses in the pool, as well as, reinforcing information in the classroom.

I would highly recommend this instructor, but for the sake of the question at hand. I just wanted clarification for myself on the certifications. I had heard of PADI and NAUI, but not so much on YMCA. SO when I was asked about Certifying Agency and recieved a few odd looks...I wanted to ask You All. Thanks for the info.

greyzen
08-27-2007, 11:40
I was extremely fortunate in having an instructor not straight out of PADI (or america for that matter).

He would explain what PADI answers were, and then let us know that some of the other clubs he was a certified master in looked at it differently.

He was certified oversea's in Europe and was also a qualified military diver (for Britain) so his knowledge, in my opinion, was pretty well covered.

According to him... PADI/SSI(I think it's SSI?)/NAUI/etc. are all the same system just with different expert opinions.

somewhereinla
08-27-2007, 11:48
Sorry, I actually somewhat disagree. Of course the instructor is important and eventhough I have little respect for PADI I do know a few excelent PADI instructors. Howerver PADI is a business, for their OW they require the student to read the book, 1 pool session and 4 open water dives. Usually each dive are about 1/2 hour long. So that's about 3-5 hours instruction. How much can you learn in that amount of time, even if you are with the best instructor.
I would also say that diving students are at fault as well, since most of it want the C card as quickly as possible. Most of the time they call an LDS, the first question they ask is how long will it take. The typical OW and AOW is a weekend long. I actually even know some PADI instructors that have cross over to other agencies such as NAUI because they get fedup with PADI...
don't forget, if an instructors takes more time or require astudent more dives, then the LDS start loosing money.

greyzen
08-27-2007, 11:59
Sorry, I actually somewhat disagree. Of course the instructor is important and eventhough I have little respect for PADI I do know a few excelent PADI instructors. Howerver PADI is a business, for their OW they require the student to read the book, 1 pool session and 4 open water dives. Usually each dive are about 1/2 hour long. So that's about 3-5 hours instruction. How much can you learn in that amount of time, even if you are with the best instructor.
I would also say that diving students are at fault as well, since most of it want the C card as quickly as possible. Most of the time they call an LDS, the first question they ask is how long will it take. The typical OW and AOW is a weekend long. I actually even know some PADI instructors that have cross over to other agencies such as NAUI because they get fedup with PADI...
don't forget, if an instructors takes more time or require astudent more dives, then the LDS start loosing money.
Of course PADI is a business... NAUI just happens to be a business too. Business doesn't always equate to evil.

Now, I will grant PADI does have a higher churn rate, but in a lot of cases it goes back to the target market.

My wife is a highly educated, dangerous job holding young lady. As such she wants vacations in places that offer relaxation/etc. Diving seems to fit the bill for that. She wants to dive in places that offer relaxation, pretty fishes and colors. She has little interest in doing more than advanced snorkeling. For her, the PADI OpenWater course was perfect as it got her familiarized with the equipment and gave her a good taste for what lies below. Would I suggest the PADI OpenWater course for someone who is looking into becoming a professional diver or someone who wants to move to Hollywood as a stunt diver? Hell no.

While I don't doubt at all that certain dives are more dangerous than others, your instruction is not the only tool used for dealing with those situations. Someone fresh out of NAUI school is not going to be better or more equipped at dealing with a situation than a PADI diver with 100+ dives under their belt. Experience and exposure, in my opinion, matter a lot more than what color or words are on your little plastic card.

Jaymeany
08-27-2007, 12:09
Wow 1 pool dive? What about the 5 that are listed on PADI's requirements? Yes I did get more then one done in a night but I'd say it'd be tough to get them all done in one day. Also that 3-5hours of instruction, what about the classroom time? I spent another 5 hours in a classroom for lectures and going over the book. Than watching the required videos also.
PADI is a business and whats so bad about that? are tHe other certs 503b non for profit organizations? are they free? if not they are businesses too.
PADI does have a lot of cards but you know what I'm happy to get them because it's more training. I'm happy with PADI, I think it is a well run organization. I disagree with the e-learning but thats just something that I feel needs to be delt with by the shops and instructors that have the final say. You are not a card carrier as soon as you are done with the computer. I hope I didn't offend anyone I have much respect for all certifications because they all have the same love for the sport and are there for education of new divers. I am done since everytime I come into this post it feels like some people are trying to tell me I made to wrong choice. I am going to go dive with my inadequate card. Peace!


1. Knowledge Development – This develops your familiarity with basic principles and procedures. You learn things like how pressure affects your body, how to choose the best gear and what to consider when planning dives.

You complete Knowledge Development on your own, reading each of five sections of the PADI Open Water Diver Manual and watching the corresponding section of the PADI Open Water Diver Video (which also previews skills you’ll learn). If you like learning with a personal computer, you can also get the Open Water Diver Manual and Video together as a CD-ROM. You briefly review what you studied in each section with your instructor and take a short quiz to be sure you’re getting it. At the end of the course, you take an exam that makes sure you’ve got all the key concepts and ideas down.
2. Confined Water Dives – This is what it’s all about – diving. You develop basic scuba skills in a pool or in a body of water with pool-like conditions. Here you’ll learn everything from setting up your gear to how to easily get water out of your mask without surfacing. You’ll also practice some emergency skills, like sharing air – just in case. Plus, you may play some games, make new friends and have a great time.

There are five confined water dives, with each building upon the previous. Over the course of these five dives, you attain the skills you need to dive in open water.

3. Open Water Dives – After your confined water dives, you and the new friends you’ve made continue learning during four open water dives with your PADI Instructor at a dive site. This is where you have fun putting it all together and fully experience the underwater adventure – at the beginner level, of course. You may make these dives near where you live or at a more exotic destination on holiday.

willardj
08-27-2007, 12:33
I can speak of NAUI and PADI classes. I have an adv. from them both and have to say that the NAUI was a lot more indepth.. The Padi class was 5 dives the Naui class was 6 dives.. You probley can blame it on the Instructor but both of the instructor's were good.. Padi just seems to be more about the money.

greyzen
08-27-2007, 12:57
I can speak of NAUI and PADI classes. I have an adv. from them both and have to say that the NAUI was a lot more indepth.. The Padi class was 5 dives the Naui class was 6 dives.. You probley can blame it on the Instructor but both of the instructor's were good.. Padi just seems to be more about the money.

I would never argue that at all....

My only concern is when people just up and dismiss an entire school of thought because it does not gel with their specific desire or line of thinking.

Example:
I have a friend who is a Navy SEAL trained diver. He received his first certification in PADI when he was 17. The diving he did in PADI was certainly different than the stuff he did in the SEAL program. I would assume, that as a Navy SEAL he is probably slightly more qualified than someone from PADI or NAUI or SSI or any of the others on underwater munitions and explosions. SEAL training gave him what he needed for military.

PADI trains divers to get into diving, yes they offer 'advanced' courses, and yes they break training up a lot more than NAUI does and yes they are more 'easy mode' than some of the other programs. They have a much higher turn over rate from 'failed' divers as well.
A lot of that is because of their market. Looking at their literature for five minutes will give you an idea of who they are targeting.

They want people like my wife...she is their bread and butter. She wants to go to cozumel and get underwater and see some pretty stuff. She doesn't want to spend 4+ hrs at 200ft, she doesn't want to explore underwater caves while taking breathtaking photo's.

True PADI offers those courses, but they also have much sterner requirements for taking those courses. The bar and the learning curve is raises quite a bit once you get out of what everyone wants (OW, AOW).

Flatliner
08-27-2007, 14:40
The one thing nobody ever mentions is that while the agency matters little, and the instructors drive the training, the student has no little on whether they receive adequate training. Is it possible to get a good education with crappy teachers? Absolutely! If you are dedicated, and have access to good resources (ST Forum, seasoned divers that may not be instructors), then you can overcome shortfalls in any curriculum.

GREAT POINT. My son was certified by the same shop I was. Since I knew in advance that the classroom session was little more than a sales presentation, he an I went over everything in detail prior to class. I also utilized ST table tutor program that I recommend without reservation to anybody. Believe it or not his class only worked ONE multi dive problem just prior to the section on why everyone should buy a computer from us...

porsche060
08-27-2007, 17:51
You dont say, they seem to be about Pay Another Dollar Inc?



I can speak of NAUI and PADI classes. I have an adv. from them both and have to say that the NAUI was a lot more indepth.. The Padi class was 5 dives the Naui class was 6 dives.. You probley can blame it on the Instructor but both of the instructor's were good.. Padi just seems to be more about the money.

I would never argue that at all....

My only concern is when people just up and dismiss an entire school of thought because it does not gel with their specific desire or line of thinking.

Example:
I have a friend who is a Navy SEAL trained diver. He received his first certification in PADI when he was 17. The diving he did in PADI was certainly different than the stuff he did in the SEAL program. I would assume, that as a Navy SEAL he is probably slightly more qualified than someone from PADI or NAUI or SSI or any of the others on underwater munitions and explosions. SEAL training gave him what he needed for military.

PADI trains divers to get into diving, yes they offer 'advanced' courses, and yes they break training up a lot more than NAUI does and yes they are more 'easy mode' than some of the other programs. They have a much higher turn over rate from 'failed' divers as well.
A lot of that is because of their market. Looking at their literature for five minutes will give you an idea of who they are targeting.

They want people like my wife...she is their bread and butter. She wants to go to cozumel and get underwater and see some pretty stuff. She doesn't want to spend 4+ hrs at 200ft, she doesn't want to explore underwater caves while taking breathtaking photo's.

True PADI offers those courses, but they also have much sterner requirements for taking those courses. The bar and the learning curve is raises quite a bit once you get out of what everyone wants (OW, AOW).

somewhereinla
08-27-2007, 19:58
Of course PADI is a business... NAUI just happens to be a business too. Business doesn't always equate to evil.

Actually NAUI is a Not For Business Association.


Now, I will grant PADI does have a higher churn rate, but in a lot of cases it goes back to the target market.

Not sure what you mean, I think other certification agencies targets the occasional resort diver as well.


My wife is a highly educated, dangerous job holding young lady. As such she wants vacations in places that offer relaxation/etc. Diving seems to fit the bill for that. She wants to dive in places that offer relaxation, pretty fishes and colors. She has little interest in doing more than advanced snorkeling. For her, the PADI OpenWater course was perfect as it got her familiarized with the equipment and gave her a good taste for what lies below. Would I suggest the PADI OpenWater course for someone who is looking into becoming a professional diver or someone who wants to move to Hollywood as a stunt diver? Hell no.

All agencies offer OW classes. To me teaching good safety skills is the most important thing, it is important for your own safety but also your buddy's safety. I don't think the Padi OW achieve that. I think NAUI stresses safety a little more, that's all.


While I don't doubt at all that certain dives are more dangerous than others, your instruction is not the only tool used for dealing with those situations. Someone fresh out of NAUI school is not going to be better or more equipped at dealing with a situation than a PADI diver with 100+ dives under their belt. Experience and exposure, in my opinion, matter a lot more than what color or words are on your little plastic card.

I couldn't agree more, experience is key... but solid foundations are important as well. I did start with PADI (OW and AOW) as well so I do know what you learn and don't learn first hand.

cheers.

willardj
08-27-2007, 20:19
When I finnaly did my rescue I went with Naui. They had and put more into to the class than the Padi program. I did the Dart Program it was 50 hour's in 5 day's. It was the hardest class I ever taken. After that class I felt like a real diver. I really filled in a lot of the holes left open from the other class'es.

thesmoothdome
08-27-2007, 20:24
Sorry, I actually somewhat disagree. Of course the instructor is important and eventhough I have little respect for PADI I do know a few excelent PADI instructors. Howerver PADI is a business, for their OW they require the student to read the book, 1 pool session and 4 open water dives. Usually each dive are about 1/2 hour long. So that's about 3-5 hours instruction. How much can you learn in that amount of time, even if you are with the best instructor.
I would also say that diving students are at fault as well, since most of it want the C card as quickly as possible. Most of the time they call an LDS, the first question they ask is how long will it take. The typical OW and AOW is a weekend long. I actually even know some PADI instructors that have cross over to other agencies such as NAUI because they get fedup with PADI...
don't forget, if an instructors takes more time or require astudent more dives, then the LDS start loosing money.


I can't ever remember doing 1 pool session with any of my students. Usually, during a 4 week course, we would do 4 clasroom sessions (2-3 hours per night), 4 pool sessions (2-3 hours per night) and the 4 OW dives over the last 2 weekends, which averaged about 40 minutes each, but each day was about 4-5 hours of training per day. All told, on the low end, we spent 24 hours of instruction to certify our students, usually more. If it was a 2 week course, it just meant that there was less absorption time between each lesson, not that we cut time off the training.

greyzen
08-27-2007, 20:36
Of course PADI is a business... NAUI just happens to be a business too. Business doesn't always equate to evil.
Actually NAUI is a Not For Business Association.


Being classified somewhere in a tax form does not make you
innocent of business practices.

I'm sure that
http://www.naui.com/corp_alliances.php

Have some very financially minded individuals who have worked with some very like minded individuals at NAUIs not-for-profit corporate offices to develop some very cost-effective and market centric advertisement.

NAUI hooked up with Disney...if that doesn't scream marketing and business know-how I don't know what does.

Everyone would like to believe their organization is the best.. but honestly I still believe that instruction is only as strong as the teacher not the core material.

in_cavediver
08-27-2007, 21:36
Of course PADI is a business... NAUI just happens to be a business too. Business doesn't always equate to evil.
Actually NAUI is a Not For Business Association.


Being classified somewhere in a tax form does not make you
innocent of business practices.

I'm sure that
http://www.naui.com/corp_alliances.php

Have some very financially minded individuals who have worked with some very like minded individuals at NAUIs not-for-profit corporate offices to develop some very cost-effective and market centric advertisement.

NAUI hooked up with Disney...if that doesn't scream marketing and business know-how I don't know what does.

Everyone would like to believe their organization is the best.. but honestly I still believe that instruction is only as strong as the teacher not the core material.

I've been around a bit, DM'd for PADI for a couple years, taken numerous IANTD classes and NACD classes as well as auditing the standards of many agencies for the day I finally decide to do the instructor thing.

From what I have seen, I like the YMCA standards the best, followed by NAUI then IANTD. They are fairly open and flexible in structure/order to allow the instructor to teach a good class. (they still have performance requirements and skills that must be completed, they just don't say when). They have holes (like everyone else) in material that ought to be filled but it seems easy to do a good class in those standards.

I take issue with PADI's extremely structured class. I disagree with order of skills presented and mandates of books etc. (look up PADI Holograms for that one). I also take issue with the minimums. Its entirely possible for a diver to do 4 OW dives for cert with a total BT of 80-90 minutes. This is quite common in my neck of the woods. Now, how much can you learn in 20 minutes on the bottom, where 10-15 of it is sitting doing skills.

Now what does this mean, well, ultimately, you will learn from an instructor not an agency so you have to choose one you can relate to. You also need a solid set of materials to learn from and refer to as well. Remember, when you finish the class, all you have is the books, your notes and memory to go on. As I said earlier, I just don't care for the PADI materials. Not enough meat between the fluff. (though they do have perty pictures)

Again though, a good/excellent instuctor can teach a good class despite what agency they are affiliated with. And a diver who wants to learn, can learn within any agencies framework.

somewhereinla
08-27-2007, 21:42
I can't ever remember doing 1 pool session with any of my students. Usually, during a 4 week course, we would do 4 clasroom sessions (2-3 hours per night), 4 pool sessions (2-3 hours per night) and the 4 OW dives over the last 2 weekends, which averaged about 40 minutes each, but each day was about 4-5 hours of training per day. All told, on the low end, we spent 24 hours of instruction to certify our students, usually more. If it was a 2 week course, it just meant that there was less absorption time between each lesson, not that we cut time off the training.

I wish I had you as my instructor for my PADI OW. That's certainly the right way to do it.

willardj
08-28-2007, 08:37
NAUI hooked up with Disney...if that doesn't scream marketing and business know-how I don't know what does.

.[/quote]
Don't forget that NAUI also does all of NASA.

TAH 73
08-28-2007, 08:56
What I wish the agencies did was put out a CLEAR curriculum to the instructors/dive shops that would be available to all students/potential students, and then at the end you get almost a "report card". That way the consumer has an expectation of what they will learn, they get a checklist to make sure all the activities they were supposed to get were covered, and they get a little more feedback as to what areas they need to work on to improve their knowledge.
In the area of ski instruction we have little "report cards" that take less than 2 minutes to do up, have an area to check of skills that were covered, and a small area to write personal comments on what they did well, and what they needed to concentrate on for improvement.
I know in the O/W course I went through on a re-cert things were missed, UW navigation was not covered at all, we never even saw a compass during the course at all. I am sure most of the people went away thinking they got all they were supposed to. Not once in the course did we get any individual feedback, areas for improvement, nor what we did well. Diving instruction is all about continuing their education, yet the agency does little to promote the quality of education, just to push you on to the next course.

willardj
08-28-2007, 09:04
That would be nice. When my wife took her's the instructor didn't do a lot of stuff I did in my class. I have to say that her instr. was not the best. When she got done we went diving and I showed her most of the things she was supposed to have learned in class. Needless to say she want be going back to that instructor any more.

Charlotte Smith
08-28-2007, 09:09
Just make sure you understand EVERYTHING in the books and that you can perform EASILY all of the tasks that you should be able to at the end of the course or start asking questions!

georoc01
08-28-2007, 09:30
Sorry, I actually somewhat disagree. Of course the instructor is important and eventhough I have little respect for PADI I do know a few excelent PADI instructors. Howerver PADI is a business, for their OW they require the student to read the book, 1 pool session and 4 open water dives. Usually each dive are about 1/2 hour long. So that's about 3-5 hours instruction. How much can you learn in that amount of time, even if you are with the best instructor.
I would also say that diving students are at fault as well, since most of it want the C card as quickly as possible. Most of the time they call an LDS, the first question they ask is how long will it take. The typical OW and AOW is a weekend long. I actually even know some PADI instructors that have cross over to other agencies such as NAUI because they get fedup with PADI...
don't forget, if an instructors takes more time or require astudent more dives, then the LDS start loosing money.


I can't ever remember doing 1 pool session with any of my students. Usually, during a 4 week course, we would do 4 clasroom sessions (2-3 hours per night), 4 pool sessions (2-3 hours per night) and the 4 OW dives over the last 2 weekends, which averaged about 40 minutes each, but each day was about 4-5 hours of training per day. All told, on the low end, we spent 24 hours of instruction to certify our students, usually more. If it was a 2 week course, it just meant that there was less absorption time between each lesson, not that we cut time off the training.

I find the same thing with my PADI LDS. I did the two weekend version and it was about the same breakdown.

They do a 1 weekend version and its a marathon. Five hours friday night followed by 8 hours Saturday and Sunday. 1/2 in the classroom, 1/2 in the pool.

I don't see any corners being cut in the 1 weekend version, but the problem is that people don't have a chance to really process what they are learning in such a compressed timeframe. In the longer timeframe, you have a chance to catch up those that have problems in between when frustrations and fears kick in. No chance in the shorter timeframe.

I don't see how you could get through all of the required confined pool skills in PADI in one pool session. Its hard enough during a review session where the students are supposed to know this stuff already.

willardj
08-28-2007, 09:57
My OW class was a total of 3 weeks. 2 day during week for class and pool( lots of pool time) check out on weekends total of 6 OW dive's(4 beach 2 boat). We did all of our skill's on the first 4 dives the last 2 was to show us what diving was all about.

greyzen
08-28-2007, 10:12
See, I was fortunate in the instruction...
Looking at the advanced book I laughed as I realized my instructor basically covered the whole u/w nav portion of the lesson while waiting for some late-comers at the lake.

I feel confident in the lake environment and while I don't think I'll be trying to port hole borrow from the titanic anytime soon, I'm ready for more advanced than OW can offer.

in_cavediver
08-28-2007, 11:43
What I wish the agencies did was put out a CLEAR curriculum to the instructors/dive shops that would be available to all students/potential students, and then at the end you get almost a "report card". That way the consumer has an expectation of what they will learn, they get a checklist to make sure all the activities they were supposed to get were covered, and they get a little more feedback as to what areas they need to work on to improve their knowledge.
In the area of ski instruction we have little "report cards" that take less than 2 minutes to do up, have an area to check of skills that were covered, and a small area to write personal comments on what they did well, and what they needed to concentrate on for improvement.
I know in the O/W course I went through on a re-cert things were missed, UW navigation was not covered at all, we never even saw a compass during the course at all. I am sure most of the people went away thinking they got all they were supposed to. Not once in the course did we get any individual feedback, areas for improvement, nor what we did well. Diving instruction is all about continuing their education, yet the agency does little to promote the quality of education, just to push you on to the next course.

This is an excellent point. A couple agencies already have thier standards out for all to see (IANTD/GUE). PADI/NAUI charge for them as part of the insturctor packs.

scubasamurai
08-28-2007, 15:39
i just go with the instructor that is actually good. make syou feel comfortable and of course get along with them. i went with padi because the instructor and owner operator of the nearest dive shop uses them, not because who there were. it was the closet shop and she is a very good teacher. she also held naui and another cert because she has been doing it forever. so go with who you are comfortable with. a bad/ unsafer diver is a dead diver( sooner or later) not matter what agency taught them.