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alyons05
07-25-2009, 11:36
What is everyones takes on Air Integrated computers? The good? The bad? Reliability? Battery Life? Durability? And last which brands are good?

DMWiz
07-25-2009, 12:47
I like air integration, specially wireless. But it's not a necessity. Wireless links may loose signal underwater sometimes, but from my experience with them this seldom happens as long as you provide basic maintenance. (Change your batteries as required etc.)

The console AI computers are as reliable as any other console computer with a smaller footprint for most.

I like my Suunto Cobra although I hardly use it anymore (I'm actually selling it) I also like the others suunto and oceanic/aeris wrist units with wireless links.

The only thing I would add is to either keep a regular spg in your kit incase the transmitter or the whole computer fails as a back up.

Diver Kat
07-25-2009, 14:49
Switched to a Oceanic Atom (air integrated wireless wrist model) just over a year ago, and love it. Haven't had any problems with it. It's nice to have all my info on my wrist, one less hose to deal with and the ability to easily donmload all my dives to my computer. Hubby & I both got them, and he's as happy as I am. An added bonus is it has a buddy feature, so we can check eack other's air without having to ask.

CompuDude
07-25-2009, 15:12
It's convenient, but very expensive. I have a plain SPG as a backup, because wireless can fail.

If you're a newer diver, you'd be much better served with a less expensive computer and put the extra money towards more training and/or more diving.

navyhmc
07-25-2009, 15:17
I have an Oceanic Pro Plus II Even though it's not wireless, I do like it all in one spot.

rongoodman
07-25-2009, 15:35
I don't see much point in them. You'll get used to how much air you're using pretty quickly and have a good idea how long the dive will last before you get in the water. I don't see how you could trust any kind of "time remaining" figure, since that would depend on you SAC, your buddies SAC, how much both would rise in a stressed situation, the type of dive, etc.

rawalker
07-25-2009, 19:43
First off some are better than others both hosed and wireless.
I like wireless and have been very happy with 3 different model Oceanic wireless models. I have a VT3, an Atom 1.0 and an Atom 2.0 all fine, functional and reliable products. (IMHO)
I've taken the time to investigate the Suunto options and decided I didn't like how the transmitter/reciever sync works on their models and having used a computer with a RGBM model I find them too conservative.
Virtually all the presently available hose connected models function well.
Battery life is a major issue with all computers and I've never found a model that reliably reports it's battery condition so a regular replacement schedule based on use and time is probably your best bet.

namabiru
07-26-2009, 01:50
I've been enjoying mine-- I just got an Aeris Epic. The thing, though, is I probably don't need all the capabilities this computer gives-- can check pressure on 3 cylinders, switch between 3 gas mixtures... however, I do like the idea that I can grow into this computer if I do start down this road.

I've not tried the downloading feature yet, but I can see where it would be good if I can also document my dive. With being the global mobile expat I am, not having paper logs helps out.

If you're thinking about it, may I suggest Ebay? That's where I got mine, and I paid about half price for something brand new from the box. Granted, the Aeris Epic isn't a top of the line, but what I paid for it and the transmitter didn't cost much more than a regular high-end computer.

I will still carry my regular computer on holiday, though, in case the Epic breaks, as it would be easy enough to borrow an SPG from the shop.

divingchef
07-26-2009, 02:15
I don't see much point in them. You'll get used to how much air you're using pretty quickly and have a good idea how long the dive will last before you get in the water. I don't see how you could trust any kind of "time remaining" figure, since that would depend on you SAC, your buddies SAC, how much both would rise in a stressed situation, the type of dive, etc.


I kind of disagree....every dive is different, new....things change in every dive...you burn 4 tanks in a day and your SAC on dive 1 is different than dive 4......depends on fatigue, what you had for lunch, plans for dinner, ambient temp in surface interval....etc....even the exact same dive 4 times in a day, your body "consumes" air differently.

I do not dive an air integrated compu. I would like to however. I think its just one more cool UW option to have....kind of like an IPOD jack in your new car.....

HOWEVER.....if I had an AI compu, I would still have a "hard" pressure gauge as a backup....

snagel
07-26-2009, 07:36
I started with the Genesis Resource Pro (not AI). It's a nice entry computer, but my big hang up is 1) It does not log the date. Trying to go back to to look at a specific dive was confusing; and 2) As I'm getting older it got a little harder to see. I recently purchased the Wisdom II. I like this very much. It is AI (not wireless). It has big numbers so I can see it better.

I have to say, I don't really pay attention to the "Dive time remaining" option. I know what I want to dive and keep an eye on my pressure. If I get low on air I end the dive.

Snagel

Zeagle Eagle
07-26-2009, 10:32
Air integrated dive computers are like power windows, power door locks and cell phones. If you never had them you don't see what all the fuss is about. Once you have them you can't live without them.

navyhmc
07-26-2009, 10:43
Can't fully agree zeagel eagle...I can live without the power stuff and I can dive without an AI, I just like the AI better.

In truth, I still dive with both an AI (PPII) and a wrist (Geo) so I have a back up. Both have their pros and concs. Luckily I have the best of both so I'm covered.

CompuDude
07-26-2009, 16:17
I don't see much point in them. You'll get used to how much air you're using pretty quickly and have a good idea how long the dive will last before you get in the water. I don't see how you could trust any kind of "time remaining" figure, since that would depend on you SAC, your buddies SAC, how much both would rise in a stressed situation, the type of dive, etc.


I kind of disagree....every dive is different, new....things change in every dive...you burn 4 tanks in a day and your SAC on dive 1 is different than dive 4......depends on fatigue, what you had for lunch, plans for dinner, ambient temp in surface interval....etc....even the exact same dive 4 times in a day, your body "consumes" air differently.

I do not dive an air integrated compu. I would like to however. I think its just one more cool UW option to have....kind of like an IPOD jack in your new car.....

HOWEVER.....if I had an AI compu, I would still have a "hard" pressure gauge as a backup....

The "time remaining" feature of AI computer is based on how fast you're breathing (i.e., how fast the pressure is dropping towards zero, since that's all it can actually measure) at that moment. Start breathing hard for a minute, and you'll watch that time remaining number drop in half. Slow down to a slow breathing rate, and you'll see the time remaining start to climb (gas supply and NDL permitting). The computer doesn't know what your "SAC rate" is, nor does it have any history of how you tend to breathe from one dive to next... it's calculated on the fly simply by measuring the rate the pressure is headed towards zero (or another pre-defined pressure, like 500psi), averaging the last couple of minutes of pressure drop rate to arrive at an estimated time before you hit that pressure. Combine that with the actual NDL function, and you have time remaining. (i.e., even if your pressure is dropping so slowly you could stay put for an hour, if you're at 100' you'll hit the NDL limit before that, so the time remaining is adjusted accordingly) Some computers also calculate in the time spent on a safety stop, etc... these sorts of subtle feaures vary by manufacturer, however.

The problem is, the "time remaining" is a guess based on nothing changing in the consumption rate. As long as you continue to breath at the exact same rate, and nothing happens to make you nervous, driving that breathing rate up, then the time remaining figure will be fairly accurate.

However, if something DOES change: A current picks up, and now you have to swim back to the anchor line against a heavy current, or perhaps you get stuck on something and freak out for a few minutes, causing your breathing rate to spike, that number (let's say 15 minutes remaining) could very well drop rapidly (let's say, down to 5 minutes remaining, all within 2 minutes instead of 10), or perhaps your buddy has a gear malfunction (or a brain malfunction) and goes OOA, and how you're both stressed and breathing hard. The computer just has no way of knowing what could change, if anything will change, or if you'll be sharing air in the next 5 minutes or not. It's only based on YOU and how YOU'RE breathing right NOW. 10 minutes remaining, 10 minutes to get back to the anchor line is great until your buddy goes OOA and now you have two stressed divers who will suck the tank dry in 5 minutes (probably less since now both will be stressed and breathing harder).

People who just look at the computer's time remaining function, and carefully think through the various ramifications of various potential scenarios that the computer can't predict, and pad the time appropriately, can do just fine with AI computers. The problem is, people, especially newer divers who having had time to build up the innate sense of how things tend to go underwater yet, simply because they don't have the experience, often turn off their brain when looking at numbers on a screen that tell them they have lots of time left. I've seen plenty of divers with AI computers go OOA because something (anything) different happened and the readout no longer accurately reflected the reality of the situation.

THAT is my biggest issue with AI computers. There's nothing wrong with them if they're used properly. The potential and temptation for turning off your brain, however, is a serious issue for some divers, and the newer they are, the worse it likely is.

DMWiz
07-26-2009, 22:05
I will still carry my regular computer on holiday, though, in case the Epic breaks, as it would be easy enough to borrow an SPG from the shop.

Take the spare with you any time you go out, it's hard to borrow from the shop when you're in a boat =)

Zenagirl
07-27-2009, 08:38
I have to agree that air integrated isn't necessary, but it is sure nice to have. We dive AI and really like having all of our information in one place. We started with AI hosed computers and went hoseless last year. We're thrilled being hoseless and can't see going back.

I like the car accessory analogy, though I'd say having an AI computer is like having a car with heated seats...you definitely don't need them, but once you have them you sure love them! Personally, I'll always have an AI computer and cars with heated seats! ;)

thor
07-27-2009, 17:56
I have been using an air integrated wireless wrist computer since my check out and I love it. Being able to glance at my wrist and find my depth and air, without having to find a hose or console is easier for me. At first I used the air time remaining (ATR) feature exclusivley to judge how much time I had left on a dive, but now I mostly just glance at that and pay more attention to actual tank pressure and the depth (as well as the nitrogen and o2 bars) to figure out approx how much time I have left. It's nice having everything on one wrist, and getting rid of a hose, although my tech instructor thinks otherwise.

navyhmc
07-27-2009, 20:27
Now that you mention it Thor, the air time remaining is the one feature of the PP2 that I really don't use... I usually look more at the PSI and TBT than anything else.

Vegas
07-27-2009, 20:28
. . . . It's nice having everything on one wrist, and getting rid of a hose, although my tech instructor thinks otherwise.

:smiley9:
Yup, I was trying to decide whether or not to add my 2 cents. .... lol!
I think Compudude covered it for recreational diving...

and Thor's instructor clearly shares my thoughts on AI computers in relation to tech diving.
....So there's both my cents!
nothing really more to add.

Zeagle Eagle
07-27-2009, 22:26
Can't fully agree zeagel eagle...I can live without the power stuff and I can dive without an AI, I just like the AI better.

In truth, I still dive with both an AI (PPII) and a wrist (Geo) so I have a back up. Both have their pros and concs. Luckily I have the best of both so I'm covered.

Actually,I think we agree. I dive with both, an air integrated Oceanic Datamax Pro Plus II and an Oceanic hockey puck on my wrist most of the time. However on some dives I just do an SPG and use the tables. When I dive in Lake Conroe I don't like to put my good stuff in the water. The visibility in Lake Conroe today was fantastic. I could actually see my fins, usually I can only see my knees.

Armymutt25A
07-28-2009, 13:37
My wife and I both have Oceanic Pro Plus 2s. I can't speak for her, but I usually look at the pressure remaining, the dive time, depth, and the saturation graph. The bottom time remaining graph is so small and it's on the bottom of the display - rarely notice it. One nice feature that it has is the safety stop timer. As soon as I get to the correct depth, it starts counting down. I don't mind the hose part. The computer is clipped to my BC on a bungie, so it's always easy to find.

chilly willy
07-28-2009, 16:14
I have an Aeris Elite and use it mostly for the SPG and depth while diving, having one less hose is nice but I still dive with a hosed SPG on occasion. The download feature is a cool addition being that I'm basically too lazy to write things down in a log book.

navyhmc
07-28-2009, 23:30
Can't fully agree zeagel eagle...I can live without the power stuff and I can dive without an AI, I just like the AI better.

In truth, I still dive with both an AI (PPII) and a wrist (Geo) so I have a back up. Both have their pros and concs. Luckily I have the best of both so I'm covered.

Actually,I think we agree. I dive with both, an air integrated Oceanic Datamax Pro Plus II and an Oceanic hockey puck on my wrist most of the time. However on some dives I just do an SPG and use the tables. When I dive in Lake Conroe I don't like to put my good stuff in the water. The visibility in Lake Conroe today was fantastic. I could actually see my fins, usually I can only see my knees.

Did we dive the same place at the same time and not bump? Sounds like a number of my dives...:smiley20: :smiley36:

Zeagle Eagle
07-29-2009, 10:30
I have to agree that air integrated isn't necessary, but it is sure nice to have. We dive AI and really like having all of our information in one place. We started with AI hosed computers and went hoseless last year. We're thrilled being hoseless and can't see going back.

I like the car accessory analogy, though I'd say having an AI computer is like having a car with heated seats...you definitely don't need them, but once you have them you sure love them! Personally, I'll always have an AI computer and cars with heated seats! ;)
In Texas we don't have heated seats. We have air conditioned seats. I have a friend who has air conditioning on his Honda Motorcycle.

bigarron
07-29-2009, 15:58
My barbecue grill go knocked off my boat at the Walden Marina. I need to find someone who can retrieve it for me. The water is 22' deep at my slip.

Thanks
Arron
bigarron@yahoo.com

Zeagle Eagle
07-30-2009, 23:19
My barbecue grill go knocked off my boat at the Walden Marina. I need to find someone who can retrieve it for me. The water is 22' deep at my slip.

Thanks
Arron
bigarron@yahoo.com
Have you gone to West Marine and tried out one of their huge magnets. It will lift the BBQ grill. I keep one one my tool chest works great. If you haven't found it by next week I will come over with a tank and take a shot at finding it for you. Click on the West Marine URL below to see what I am talking about.

West Marine: West Marine Search Tool (http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearchView?catalogId=10001&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&keyword=magnet&Ntt=magnet&N=377+710&y=0&x=0&storeId=10001&Ntk=Primary+Search&ddkey=SiteSearch)