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View Full Version : Anyone make an SPG w/Alarm?



BobbyWombat
08-27-2007, 12:03
Just curious.

I wonder why SPG manufacturers dont integrate a simple digital alarm to the unit. Something that would alert you if you screw up and don't monitor your air and get down to 500 psi or something.

Seems like this would help avoid many OOA situations.

Yeah, I suppose it would be battery powered, and therefore could konk out w/o you knowing it.... I could see the arguement that you wouldn't want this to be a crutch that you DEPEND on.


Hmmmm....thoughts?

ianr33
08-27-2007, 12:07
I wonder why SPG manufacturers dont integrate a simple digital alarm to the unit.

Because it is completely uneccessary.

If you like gadgets just buy an air integrated computer

WaterRat
08-27-2007, 12:12
They have an intuitive alarm. When it gets hard to breath you should check to see how much air you have.

That was a joke :smiley36:

No diver should need this. If inexperienced you should be checking a lot. More experience you should know your SAC rate and can tell by time how much air you have. As well as checking the guage a few times throughout the dive.

Ron

MEL-DC Diver
08-27-2007, 12:41
To say nothing of the fact that unless you could program it to fit your dive profile for each dive, it would be completely useless. For me an alarm at 500 psi is not important information - I could still have plenty of diving remaining or it is too late to help me. Even in this case you would just be replacing looking with hearing - I don't know about you, but I trust my eyes on a dive more than I trust my ears.

subsur
08-27-2007, 12:49
i agree with above posts. AI computers can do it if you really want a sound alarm. lots of peole have their SPGs in a console with compass and depth gauge. you have to check the compass for navigation and depth gauge to stay in nd-limits so you might as well take a look at your spg while using other gauges that are next to spg. it's a very good habbit to check your gauges and relying just on a beep is a bit dangerous. depending on your depth 500 psi might be too low for a safe ascent anyway.

ScaredSilly
08-27-2007, 13:17
I have an AI computer and I hate the annoying pressure alarm. It is totally unnecessary but I can see why they have them for the less observant diver.

For instance, on many dives we end at 35'-15' of water. If it is a nice shallow reef and I an under the boat and feel comfortable with the conditions I might drain my cylinder well to below 500psi. in the mean time beep-beep beep-beep. You would think I am diving with the road runner.

The problem is that you can not selectively turn off the alarms - it is all or nothing. And you can not set the pressure alarm to zero.

NitroWill
08-27-2007, 13:28
There should be no need for a "low air alarm"..
As a new diver you should be checking your air frequently..
As you become more experienced you will know your air usage and remaining air pretty accurately - so there really is no need for this..

BobbyWombat
08-27-2007, 13:47
I agree with the "you shouldn't need this" mindset.....BUT.....there are still regular postings about people running out of air.

Just curious. Not something I think I would even want myself but my cynical says that this is one of those "bells and whistles" that you could convince people to buy, even if it is not needed.

-bw

NitroWill
08-27-2007, 13:58
Not even that, it would basically create people to be non-alert and irresponsibile for themselves..

And then when someone relies so much on it and the first time it fails to alert a diver and he dies/gets injured..they will sue the inventor and put them out of business...it just isnt necessary..check your gauges regularly - its that simple!

Xspect
08-27-2007, 16:49
I would also be worried about if you THOUGHT you set the alarm but didnt. You would be waiting for the alarm and then its too late.

No Misses
08-27-2007, 16:56
I have one. It is called an Air Integrated Computer ;-)

Splitlip
08-27-2007, 17:08
My first reg was a Scubapro Mk VII. It had an audio alarm that honked at 500 or 750 psi. It was most likely introduced to make up for the lack of the J valves' reserve feature when using K valves.
I found the audio feature to be useless and anoying because I also purchased a "Seaview" gauge (SPG) with my reg.

mike_s
08-27-2007, 17:31
I wonder why SPG manufacturers dont integrate a simple digital alarm to the unit.

Because it is completely uneccessary.






Not even that, it would basically create people to be non-alert and irresponsibile for themselves..

And then when someone relies so much on it and the first time it fails to alert a diver and he dies/gets injured..they will sue the inventor and put them out of business...it just isnt necessary..check your gauges regularly - its that simple!




Oh man. You both took the words right out of my mouth!

FyVe
08-27-2007, 18:32
that would simply incourage someone to be irresponsible.
depending on the depth, you need more than X amount to surface without panic.
if you can't set X then it's pretty much a disaster waiting to happen, and unless it is 100% bullet proof (very few things are) then it's not worth the risks involved.

rfreddo
10-17-2007, 13:41
Just ran accross this old thread and it got me thinking . . . and chuckling to myself. I was comparing this thread, which has as it's general theme "thou shalt be observant and never run out of air", and the mutitude of threads about octo/inflator combinations which run towards "thou shalt not use a combination as it would be inconvenient in an OOA situation."

So which is it? Am I supposed to (1) plan to never have to be a donor cause everyone is too smart to run out of air and thus use whatever setup I choose or (2) drag around an extra hose cause OOA divers are epidemic?

Oh well. I just love the passion on this board. Shall we talk about back inflate vs. jacket? . . .

webwidejosh
10-17-2007, 14:14
that would simply incourage someone to be irresponsible.
depending on the depth, you need more than X amount to surface without panic.
if you can't set X then it's pretty much a disaster waiting to happen, and unless it is 100% bullet proof (very few things are) then it's not worth the risks involved.

So, if its so horrible for an SPG to have an alarm, why is it so commonplace for an AIC to have an alarm?

JahJahwarrior
10-17-2007, 14:32
Air integrated computers are horrible, that's why. :)


Especially wireless ones--any diver that really cares about his life will dive with an SPG in addition to a wireless AIC, because we all know electronics fail fairly often. That is one of the reasons CCR divers have multiple oxygen sensors. Air integrated computers aren't as dangerous as a wireless one, but they are still more dangerous, in my opinion, at this time, than a standard SPG.

Even diving with a normal computer, it is a very good idea to have don eyour dive beforehand on tables so you know how long you can stay at your max depth before needing deco, and to carry a bottom timer in addition to your computer, so you can know how long you've been down if your computer bites the dust.

Never trust electronics. :)




disclaimer: AIC's aren't "horrible," but they aren't necessarily better than an old fashioned SPG.

ertechsg
10-17-2007, 15:12
If hoseless AI is so horrible why do they still make them? I have used a oceanic vt pro for somtime now and im still alive ..have never ran out of air... been to the chamber.. or had a compu fail underwater. so why is something with a spring and needle better No needle has ever stuck right and we are talking pure recreational diving not tech.

Splitlip
10-17-2007, 17:36
If hoseless AI is so horrible why do they still make them?
Because people keep buying them? :)

texdiveguy
10-17-2007, 18:17
I wonder why SPG manufacturers dont integrate a simple digital alarm to the unit.

Because it is completely uneccessary.



Just what he said!

ScubaToys Larry
10-17-2007, 18:28
Air integrated computers are horrible, that's why. :)


Especially wireless ones--any diver that really cares about his life will dive with an SPG in addition to a wireless AIC,...

I pretty much care about my life - and I use an air integrated computer with no backup analog gauge. Been doing it for about 12 years now... Probably, I'd guess, about 4 times longer than you've been diving????

And to answer the initial question before it got off into this arena... Oceanic used to have one. It was the 300G computer - and the gauge was tied to the dive computer, and had a built in alarm at 500 psi.

The reason they don't now - is the cost of the underwater peizo and the circuitry to do it - you may as well just spend a few more dollars and have a fully functioning air integrated computer.

And from a marketing standpoint - you can see from the responses in this thread - unless someone embraces dive computers - they probably would not embrace an alarmed gauge.

So for the rest of this thread guys... I know people have opinions - but keep in mind - you are not right. And neither am I. To come out here, sometimes with very limited experience and make bold claims that "This is stupid, This is wrong, Those are terrible... " Doesn't do anyone any good.

Remember - these are opinions - and if you don't like a product, whether it is an air integrated computer, a split fin, a bio filter, an underwater noise maker.. I don't care... If you don't like it, feel free to say that you prefer a different equipment configuration - but let's be civil shall we?!

No one gains anything from the "Jet fins are stupid - give you cramps" "Oh yea!! Split fins are stupid, can't do a helicopter turn.... "

So let's all relax - and try to be productive... shall we?

Thanks!

fire diver
10-17-2007, 18:43
Just ran accross this old thread and it got me thinking . . . and chuckling to myself. I was comparing this thread, which has as it's general theme "thou shalt be observant and never run out of air", and the mutitude of threads about octo/inflator combinations which run towards "thou shalt not use a combination as it would be inconvenient in an OOA situation."

So which is it? Am I supposed to (1) plan to never have to be a donor cause everyone is too smart to run out of air and thus use whatever setup I choose or (2) drag around an extra hose cause OOA divers are epidemic?

Oh well. I just love the passion on this board. Shall we talk about back inflate vs. jacket? . . .

Now see this? This is borderline trolling.

But I will ASSUME that you were asking an honest question here. Everyone should be too smart to breath thier tank down to nothing. But hoses and orings and regs do fail on occasion, demanding that divers be prepared for such an emergency.

FD

Aussie
10-18-2007, 09:22
Just ran accross this old thread and it got me thinking . . . and chuckling to myself. I was comparing this thread, which has as it's general theme "thou shalt be observant and never run out of air", and the mutitude of threads about octo/inflator combinations which run towards "thou shalt not use a combination as it would be inconvenient in an OOA situation."

So which is it? Am I supposed to (1) plan to never have to be a donor cause everyone is too smart to run out of air and thus use whatever setup I choose or (2) drag around an extra hose cause OOA divers are epidemic?

Oh well. I just love the passion on this board. Shall we talk about back inflate vs. jacket? . . .

Now see this? This is borderline trolling.

But I will ASSUME that you were asking an honest question here. Everyone should be too smart to breath thier tank down to nothing. But hoses and orings and regs do fail on occasion, demanding that divers be prepared for such an emergency.

FD

I have stated that combo's would be inconvenient in an OOA situation. As fire diver said there are other emergencies that can be classed as OOA. I personally have had a few OOA situations from panicking divers sucking a tank dry at depth to people that did not observe their SPG.

Personally I have AI computers and a SPG for backup. My computers do have low air audible alarms which can be user set (one fix setting of 50bar, one user choosen). Never really taken any notice of it as I monitor my air through out the dive.

Come to think of it maybe a SPG that gives you an electric shock if you go below 35bar. Sure way to train people that dont observe the most important. Or am I too harsh?????

Aussie

RoadRacer1978
10-18-2007, 09:48
[quote=fire diver;76357][quote=rfreddo;76176]Come to think of it maybe a SPG that gives you an electric shock if you go below 35bar. Sure way to train people that dont observe the most important. Or am I too harsh?????

Aussie

A little training by Pavlov. Electric shock if you allow you air to get too low and a treat if you return with a small reserve. :smilie39::smilie39:
Punishment for not watching your air and reward for watching it.

I feel sorry for the person who has a true emergency and blows an o-ring or a free flow. Your gona get fried buddy. :smilie39:

Aussie
10-18-2007, 09:54
[quote=fire diver;76357][quote=rfreddo;76176]Come to think of it maybe a SPG that gives you an electric shock if you go below 35bar. Sure way to train people that dont observe the most important. Or am I too harsh?????

Aussie

A little training by Pavlov. Electric shock if you allow you air to get too low and a treat if you return with a small reserve. :smilie39::smilie39:
Punishment for not watching your air and reward for watching it.

I feel sorry for the person who has a true emergency and blows an o-ring or a free flow. Your gona get fried buddy. :smilie39:

Conditioning..........They will check and double check all o-rings, regs, hoses, tank valves, etc etc.

If your too close to your buddy you get fried too.

Might be on something here:smiley2:

Aussie

CompuDude
10-18-2007, 11:55
Just ran accross this old thread and it got me thinking . . . and chuckling to myself. I was comparing this thread, which has as it's general theme "thou shalt be observant and never run out of air", and the mutitude of threads about octo/inflator combinations which run towards "thou shalt not use a combination as it would be inconvenient in an OOA situation."

So which is it? Am I supposed to (1) plan to never have to be a donor cause everyone is too smart to run out of air and thus use whatever setup I choose or (2) drag around an extra hose cause OOA divers are epidemic?

Oh well. I just love the passion on this board. Shall we talk about back inflate vs. jacket? . . .

Personal responsibility is a b****, ain't it?

Two reasons you need to carry redundant 2nd stages: First, sh** happens. Second, not everyone is as intelligent as they should be when diving.

Fortunately, assuming YOU were smart enough to plan properly, you would know what your rock bottom pressure is for any given dive: The amount of gas needed to bring TWO divers to the surface from the max depth (or max penetration point) of the dive. As long as YOU have been monitoring your gas and not gone below your rock bottom pressure for the dive, then you would know you don't need an alarm, and if someone else has a catastrophic gear malfunction (or is simply careless enough to go OOA), you have sufficient gas reserves available that you will not have any problems.

rfreddo
10-18-2007, 12:46
Guys, take a deep breath (from either of your 2nd stages). Personally, I don't care which way you have your setup configured. Do what you like, and what you're comfortable with, as will I. I was just making a point about how passionate people are about their techniques - not making a wrong/right determination. Let's put this one to rest, alright?

If you have something to tell me for my consideration, awesome, I'm new to this and I'm all ears. I have no patience for being cussed at.

Thanks.

CompuDude
10-18-2007, 12:58
Guys, take a deep breath (from either of your 2nd stages). Personally, I don't care which way you have your setup configured. Do what you like, and what you're comfortable with, as will I. I was just making a point about how passionate people are about their techniques - not making a wrong/right determination. Let's put this one to rest, alright?

If you have something to tell me for my consideration, awesome, I'm new to this and I'm all ears. I have no patience for being cussed at.

Thanks.

Sorry... not cussing at you. They're just expressions, and the first was more a general comment on those in the thread who don't want to have to monitor their own air, not you. Similarly, the "You" was generic. Sorry if you were feeling personally cussed at. :)

RoadRacer1978
10-18-2007, 13:06
Things can get fired up fast when we are passionate about something. I am sure CompuDude meant no harm and just posted this out of being passionate about everyones safety. It is easy to post something and not fully think through the exact wording and how someone might take it when you are passionate about a subject.