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bigman241
08-11-2009, 09:18
When i do my cert i plan on buying the gear to dive.
What are the pros and cons of a air intergrated handheld computer vs a intergrated wrist type computer. Which is better for a new diver.
Also what computer would you recommend to a new diver wanting to dive with nitrox down the road.

Scuba Pete
08-11-2009, 09:32
A new diver does not need a dive computer. I dont think that new divers should have dive computers. They create complacency, which is very dangerous. Having said that....

I vote for a non air integrated wrist mounted computer. You still have a brass and glass SPG. The more you dive the more you know your sir consumption and the SPG is really easy to clip on and off to look at your air supply. I have been diving with the Tusa IQ-700 which is the same thing as the zeagle n2ition, and the dive rite duo. I think that this computer is great. It does 2 gasses you can change underwater. Gas 1 is up to 40% o2 and gas 2 is up to 99%. It is sub 400. It will grow with you as you progress. I have seen other people use the uwatec sir intgrated computers and they are nice computers and easy to use. I just dont like the not haveing a SPG and relying on a computer for that information.

What ever you decide i would go with a wrist mounted computer for the ease of use and you dont have a dangly hanging off of you. It is much more streamlined and easier to use when going up a dive line. Make sure that it is on your right arm though.

rfreddo
08-11-2009, 12:28
Make sure that it is on your right arm though.

Why? I wear mine on my left wrist. The only time it really makes a difference, to me at least, is during ascent. I look up as I ascend, and my left wrist is right there in front of my face while I'm venting, so pretty convenient. Nothing wrong with right wrist placement, just curious why the note about having it on the right arm.

hoova-scuba
08-11-2009, 13:14
A new diver does not need a dive computer. I dont think that new divers should have dive computers. They create complacency, which is very dangerous. Having said that....


Just interested why you say this? Should new divers only dive by the tables in your opinion?

Lobster Hunter
08-11-2009, 13:22
I am a new diver and dive with a computer. I use a console because wrist mount would get in the way of reaching under the rocks for lobster...although I guess you don't see many lobsters in Indiana!

DivingCRNA
08-11-2009, 13:29
Your instructor and dive shop will probably say to buy an air integrated console because it has all kids of things you "need".

I agree that a new diver should be able to do it with tables. It teaches you what you are doing and keeps you from tending to "trust" other people and things.

But when I got my OW, computers were insanely expensive and not as reliable.

When you head to tec diving in the future, a console will be useless. So consider that. If you "Have" to have a computer, go wrist mount, so you do not drag it on the rocks as a newb with too many danglies.

Rileybri
08-11-2009, 13:41
I use a wrist mount Gekko. I find it much easer to to get my info by having my comp right there in front with out having to to grab my console. That said my gauges are all analog (no battery needed) and I have the tables I will be diving on a slate as a BU should my comp fail.

Jack Hammer
08-11-2009, 14:04
High cost aside, I personally think the "best" computer choice for many new divers would be something like the datamask. Only because they have pertinent info right there in their field of view all the time. With your depth, times, and pressure right there I think more newbies would look at it more often than what I've seen many do when they start diving. It's not an ideal or realistic choice for most due to cost and other factors.

Again, like most things asked, it comes down to how you'll be diving and personal preference. I started with a console mount and switched to wrist when I bought a camera. I prefer the wrist mounted computer by far. I find it much easier to quickly look at. I wear one on my left wrist and another on my right. Some people who wear two prefer them both on one arm, I don't. Again, personal preference.

Jack

Scuba Pete
08-11-2009, 14:23
A new diver does not need a dive computer. I dont think that new divers should have dive computers. They create complacency, which is very dangerous. Having said that....


Just interested why you say this? Should new divers only dive by the tables in your opinion?

Why do I have to know anything about my dive plan when a electrical thingy can tell me when to go up and when I am running low on air? When a new diver or any diver does not have to think about what they are doing I think that is very dangerous and bad things could happen. Now if a diver uses one of these and still creates a dive plan and throughly thinks out a dive before the dive, then dives their plan. I dont see a problem. The problem is when you have an option to become lazy and rely on a peice of equipment to tell you what you should already be planning on. What if the battery dies or the computer fails for some reason? You are left with no indication of the amount of air you have left, no time keeping device, no depth gauge, no dive table, you have no idea how long you have been down, no idea how deep you are. What would you do? How would you know where to stop for a safety stop? Would you do a safety stop? Did you run into your NDL? Are you in deco violation? How do you perform accidental deco? I appoligize if i sound to harsh, I am not meaning to sound that way at all.

navyhmc
08-11-2009, 14:42
I have both, the console mounted is an air integrated. I like them both - if I were to have to part with one, I would part with the AI console-nothing I can't live without, just put a SPG on and I'm good to go.

"back in the day", there were no computers so you had to be very aware of where you were and what your plan was. If you deviated a little on the wrong side of your plan ,you could have some problems. I do elieve that being able to plan your dive-even on a very OW scale is important. At the very least, you should be aware of your time and depth limits and try to stay well within your plan.

Don't get me wrong, a computer is a great tool, but the best computer to take with you is the one between your ears. But like any computer, that one has to be programmed to. Learning the basics: tables, is thebest way to start. Dving with a good groupd of seasoned, experienced divers is another.

ScubaToys Larry
08-11-2009, 17:30
Why do I have to know anything about my dive plan when a electrical thingy can tell me when to go up and when I am running low on air? When a new diver or any diver does not have to think about what they are doing I think that is very dangerous and bad things could happen. Now if a diver uses one of these and still creates a dive plan and throughly thinks out a dive before the dive, then dives their plan. I dont see a problem. The problem is when you have an option to become lazy and rely on a peice of equipment to tell you what you should already be planning on. What if the battery dies or the computer fails for some reason? You are left with no indication of the amount of air you have left, no time keeping device, no depth gauge, no dive table, you have no idea how long you have been down, no idea how deep you are. What would you do? How would you know where to stop for a safety stop? Would you do a safety stop? Did you run into your NDL? Are you in deco violation? How do you perform accidental deco? I appoligize if i sound to harsh, I am not meaning to sound that way at all.

Figured I'd chime in with a different point of view, and an answer to a few of your questions you have above... If a computer fails, you signal your buddy, you make a slow ascent with them up to 15 feet, you do a safety stop, then you exit the water. The same thing you would do if your watch stopped... or your gauge flooded and stopped working.

Scuba diving is supposed to be fun, and safe, and realistically, a computer helps with both those goals in my opinion. I wrote the computerized Table Tutor software that is on our site because we were a Naui shop, and I had to do a lot of cross overs. When teaching divemaster and instructor students and cross overs, it was amazing to me how many people would make a mistake on dive table problems.. and this was sitting in a class room. The odds of mistakes when diving, I must assume, would only be much higher....

We use a computer to book our trip, run our car to the airport, get us to the proper gate, taxi, take off and fly the plane, navigate, land, book our room, charge our credit card.... I feel fine using it to say I'm 62 feet down and my deco time is another 18 minutes.

But maybe that's just me... And to answer the question of this thread....

I really do like the data mask stuff... but if just a plain computer, I'd take a console over wrist. I have seen a lot of divers jump in the water without their computers on their wrists... I've seem people get them stuck on their arms when taking off wetsuits...

I like everything attached. If I put on my BC, and have a reg to breathe on, I know everything else is there... it didn't get confused with anyone elses, it's not in my room, on the camera table, under the bottom of the tank of the guy next to me, the strap did not break, and it's not lost... It's there attached, ready to dive when I am.

Again.. my opinion... and others may differ.

mitsuguy
08-11-2009, 18:11
I agree with Larry about the practicality of a computer...

We trust computers for everything - and in many situations, our lives are put in more peril than if a computer dies while we are diving...

That being said, I don't put 100% trust in my computer... For the most part, I know where I am in the water column, I know how much dive time remaining I have, and, I am real good at judging a safety stop without any reference at all, at least where I dive on a daily basis... So, if my computer failed, I'd be just fine...

As an instructor and a divemaster, I rarely ever truly plan a dive on paper... I do know how much time I can spend at each level and what the approximate dive time will be... For most easy recreational dives, I find that no more than that is needed... For my students, they are trained to plan everything so that they understand the need - as someone gains more experience, they tend to know what they can and can't do without having to actually plan it - in a recreational sense at least...

When I dive somewhere new or I know I will be pushing limits, then I plan a dive to the T...

Computers aren't the only gauge that can fail - depth gauges can fail, spg's can fail and even compasses can fail...

I, however, like a wrist mounted computer - much easier to look at than a console...

bigman241
08-11-2009, 22:44
thanks guys. ALot of good info. Even got larry in on this one. LIke the reg i am still have no idea which i want. Hopefully i can talk the lds in to letting me try both on our ow dives.

hoova-scuba
08-12-2009, 16:08
I'm glad Larry chimed in. I was starting to believe that if you used a computer, then you had to toss all your other gauges and solely rely on that. I think that if any of my equipment failed I should end the dive as safely as possible and chalk it up to bad luck.

oddbod
08-12-2009, 20:38
Agree with Larry on both the use of a computer and a preference to console AI, but have seen too many Noobs relying on their computers and not understanding the principles of tables and DCI's. The problem may stem from their instructor/courses, but after nearly 20 years of using an AI computer, I could still sit down and plan a days diving using tables. Computers definitely make the sport safer/easier, but correct knowledge makes it safer still :smiley20:.

scubaman450
08-13-2009, 10:48
A new diver does not need a dive computer. I dont think that new divers should have dive computers. They create complacency, which is very dangerous. Having said that....


Just interested why you say this? Should new divers only dive by the tables in your opinion?

Why do I have to know anything about my dive plan when a electrical thingy can tell me when to go up and when I am running low on air? When a new diver or any diver does not have to think about what they are doing I think that is very dangerous and bad things could happen. Now if a diver uses one of these and still creates a dive plan and throughly thinks out a dive before the dive, then dives their plan. I dont see a problem. The problem is when you have an option to become lazy and rely on a peice of equipment to tell you what you should already be planning on. What if the battery dies or the computer fails for some reason? You are left with no indication of the amount of air you have left, no time keeping device, no depth gauge, no dive table, you have no idea how long you have been down, no idea how deep you are. What would you do? How would you know where to stop for a safety stop? Would you do a safety stop? Did you run into your NDL? Are you in deco violation? How do you perform accidental deco? I appoligize if i sound to harsh, I am not meaning to sound that way at all.


Ok I feel the same way about this.....I was traind to use the Navy tables and I still make a note to self on my slate before the dive after looking up info from Navy planner.
Now I know this is just to much for most but I don't dive with most I dive for the most part solo. I don't like the fack that computers "give the diver more bottom time" well I love to dive as much as the next diver BUT I like to be here to keep diving. Dethp and bottom time, really it's not that hard. Or is it???? There would much less diving death if PADI and some others would make divers really pass a test insted of give a C-card to anyone that gave them the Money.

mwhities
08-13-2009, 10:57
I choice the wrist mount as I only have one-arm and I can bring my arm up and read my computer and still use my hand to hold my light or whatever I might be doing.

Michael

Splitlip
08-13-2009, 11:23
Wrist mount here as well.

Also one who sees a computer as a convenience, not a neccessity.

I have continued diving a number times when my computer crapped out because I had tables, gauge and timer. (My Aqualand watch)

it_mike
08-13-2009, 13:29
A computer is a great tool. I prefer AI, but with a backup spg. I also prefer retractable over console/wrist. If I can't get/build/mount a retractable unit, I go to the right wrist.

Mike

ianr33
08-13-2009, 16:19
Make sure that it is on your right arm though.

Why? I wear mine on my left wrist. The only time it really makes a difference, to me at least, is during ascent. I look up as I ascend, and my left wrist is right there in front of my face while I'm venting, so pretty convenient. Nothing wrong with right wrist placement, just curious why the note about having it on the right arm.

I wear mine on the right.

My inflator is short. When I have my left hand on that I would not be able to see a computer on my left wrist. Also means I can use the rear dump (on the left) and check depth at he same time.

For deco dives having it on the right is helpful as your left hand is busy with deco tanks.

navyhmc
08-13-2009, 20:16
Ok I feel the same way about this.....I was traind to use the Navy tables and I still make a note to self on my slate before the dive after looking up info from Navy planner.
Now I know this is just to much for most but I don't dive with most I dive for the most part solo. I don't like the fack that computers "give the diver more bottom time" well I love to dive as much as the next diver BUT I like to be here to keep diving. Dethp and bottom time, really it's not that hard. Or is it???? There would much less diving death if PADI and some others would make divers really pass a test insted of give a C-card to anyone that gave them the Money.


Actually, the advantage to the computer is that it gives you credit for going shallow. If you made a 10 minute dive to 90', by the navy tables you had 30 minutes NDL. Even if you then went up to 50' after that. If you follow Navy rules, even though you ascended, your NDL is still at the deeper 90' A computer (or padi wheel or eRDPml) gives you "Credit" for the nitrogen loading at depth then recalculates your remaining NDL at your now 50' so it gives you more bottom time, but it's still well within a safe dive.

I came into the computer age kicking and screaming-I too started on navy tables.... :smiley20:

TJDiver
08-28-2009, 10:02
I agree with the need to not become complacent, but that's up to the individual diver. I've seen divers get sloppy with, or without, computers. I recently re-certified with my 13-year old son, and altho we outfitted ourselves with a pair of Galileo Sols, I stressed to him the importance of knowing the tables and why the diff between what they allow, and what the computers allow. We still do dive planning with the tables to keep up our knowledge and skills, but the computer takes over once in the water. That being said, we still have a set of tables with us underwater. If I ever see a number on the computer that doesn't seem to jive with what I know of the tables, then it's time to find out why and possibly end the dive. It's like Larry said, it's all technology we depend on...SPG's, depth guages, and bottom timers can also fail, and if just one of those fail, you still end the dive.

rednose83
10-25-2009, 03:33
I have a console computer now and I think I'd rather have a watch style.

I am constantly looking to check my depth and air so I think it would be easier if it were right on my wrist. I've only done my OW dives so my preference might change as I get more experience.

mitsuguy
10-25-2009, 05:57
I have a console computer now and I think I'd rather have a watch style.

I am constantly looking to check my depth and air so I think it would be easier if it were right on my wrist. I've only done my OW dives so my preference might change as I get more experience.


As you get more experienced, you will probably be checking less, especially your air... Once you get better with your air consumption, you will get a better feeling for how much air versus time you are using, and you will then start checking your air not because you are not sure how much you have, but to be sure that what it reads is close to what you are expecting...

For this reason, a lot of divers have a simple SPG (pressure gauge) on their high pressure hose, and then a wrist computer, which takes care of time, depth, nitrogen loading and temperature...

I have seen too many failures of digital pressure gauges to completely trust them, whereas although I have seen failed mechanical SPG's, the difference is that usually the mechanical version is just a little off, and usually the digital one fails completely... Many divers who have a hoseless computer with tank pressure reading also have a pressure gauge on a hose as a backup...

Your choice though....

snagel
10-25-2009, 08:12
I think the recommendation for putting it on the right wrist is so you can watch it while performing your safety stop and use your left hand to add/dump air.

I've got both and actually prefer the console - it's just me. For some reason it just seemed very hard for me to see my computer on my wrist (must me my eyes). The console stays on my gear and the wrist style is just something more to keep track of during SI and put on before a dive.

I've got the Sherwood Wisdom II and love it for the console and have the Genesis ReactPro for the wrist mount.

Snagel

mitsuguy
10-25-2009, 08:17
I think the recommendation for putting it on the right wrist is so you can watch it while performing your safety stop and use your left hand to add/dump air.

I've got both and actually prefer the console - it's just me. For some reason it just seemed very hard for me to see my computer on my wrist (must me my eyes). The console stays on my gear and the wrist style is just something more to keep track of during SI and put on before a dive.

I've got the Sherwood Wisdom II and love it for the console and have the Genesis ReactPro for the wrist mount.

Snagel

See, I like my wrist computer for the opposite reason... As many dives as I have to do, if there was an equipment failure, I may/may not have time to switch a computer from reg to reg, so the wrist computer is always with me and I never have to worry about it...

Then again, I have a Geo, which is quite small though

rednose83
10-25-2009, 13:30
As you get more experienced, you will probably be checking less, especially your air... Once you get better with your air consumption, you will get a better feeling for how much air versus time you are using, and you will then start checking your air not because you are not sure how much you have, but to be sure that what it reads is close to what you are expecting...


That's what I was thinking might happen.

redsoxphan
10-25-2009, 18:00
I purchased a wrist computer vs. console solely to have some redundancy should the computer fail. With a wrist style, I still have my mechanical guages to rely on. If your console integrated computer fails, where's your backup? That was my thinking anyway. Like others have said...personal choice/preference.

CompuDude
10-25-2009, 20:18
Make sure that it is on your right arm though.

Why? I wear mine on my left wrist. The only time it really makes a difference, to me at least, is during ascent. I look up as I ascend, and my left wrist is right there in front of my face while I'm venting, so pretty convenient. Nothing wrong with right wrist placement, just curious why the note about having it on the right arm.

I wear mine on the right.

My inflator is short. When I have my left hand on that I would not be able to see a computer on my left wrist. Also means I can use the rear dump (on the left) and check depth at he same time.

For deco dives having it on the right is helpful as your left hand is busy with deco tanks.

Well put. In addition, when your canister light head is on your left hand, it makes it very easy to look at the computer using the light, rather than having to push buttons in the dark.

And lastly, I usually wear a watch that is also a backup depth gauge. I wear my watch on the left arm, as do most right handed people. So it's only natural to leave my watch on the left, and put the computer on the right. Otherwise I'd have too many gauges running up my left arm!