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MxDiver
08-28-2007, 21:19
For those of you familiar with both courses which one would you recommend and why?

IANTD Advance Nitrox or
DSAT Tec Deep Diver

I like to keep the discussion centered on the courses, rather than generalizations of the agencies. Also consider the instructors equally competent to teach the courses.

in_cavediver
08-28-2007, 21:28
For those of you familiar with both courses which one would you recommend and why?

IANTD Advance Nitrox or
DSAT Tec Deep Diver

I like to keep the discussion centered on the courses, rather than generalizations of the agencies. Also consider the instructors equally competent to teach the courses.

First, the classes aren't equivalent. Advanced nitrox teached the basics of staged deco using 2 gases (max 50/50 withing rec limits (or 140', can't recall). The Tec Deep is closer the IANTD's tec nitrox class where you do full staged deco dives to 165'ish using O2 for deco.

Now, for which to do. A few questions:

How many dives in doubles do you have?
Do you own your doubles and tec rig?
Have you ever done a valve drill?
Have you ever used a reel underwater?
Have you ever used a lift bag underwater?
Any other advanced training - DM/OWSI or Cave?
Do you dive dry? (and own a drysuit)

The idea is to gauge your relative expierence. If it a lot of no's, I think you'll get more from Advanced Nitrox. If you've done most of this before, you might be ready for DSAT Tec.

My path was Advanced Nitrox - Normoxic Trimix from IANTD and I didn't have to go below 130 on air. (did it on trimix)

There is one other point to look at. Read some of the materials and start looking at the philosophy of the training. Technical Diving is a lot more mental than physical (though the physical stuff seems to beat you up more). Team concepts and indivual responsibility is highly stressed. Make sure you agree with some of the guiding philosophies. This is a purely personal decision you will have to make and it will evolve as you move forward into technical diving.

MxDiver
08-28-2007, 23:05
First, the classes aren't equivalent. Advanced nitrox teached the basics of staged deco using 2 gases (max 50/50 withing rec limits (or 140', can't recall). The Tec Deep is closer the IANTD's tec nitrox class where you do full staged deco dives to 165'ish using O2 for deco.
I did not find any reference to an IANTDís tec nitrox class, I tried to match the two as evenly as I could, if you have a link to this course it will be greatly appreciated.


Now, for which to do. A few questions:
How many dives in doubles do you have?
None


Do you own your doubles and tec rig?
Yes, twin steel 72s, and a Zeagle Ranger with a Manta wing


Have you ever done a valve drill?
Not on doubles, but I have switched over from my main tank to a pony opening and closing the valves, does that count?


Have you ever used a reel underwater?
Yes


Have you ever used a lift bag underwater?
Yes


Any other advanced training - DM/OWSI or Cave?
Yes, see this thread (http://forum.scubatoys.com/showthread.php?p=38768#post38768")


Do you dive dry? (and own a drysuit)
No and no, but I own a shorty 3/2, full 3/2, and a 5mil, I live in Mexico, all of my diving takes place in tropical waters so I never had the need for a dry suit at any depth


The idea is to gauge your relative expierence. If it a lot of no's, I think you'll get more from Advanced Nitrox. If you've done most of this before, you might be ready for DSAT Tec.
I do not plan to take either course for the next 10 months, Iíll use this time to practice and develop my skills, including diving in doubles. Iím just doing my homework in advance, IANTD and PADI are the two choices I have to continue with my education thus Iím asking for opinions from more experienced folks.


My path was Advanced Nitrox - Normoxic Trimix from IANTD and I didn't have to go below 130 on air. (did it on trimix)
I am considering trimix after Tec deep/ nitrox, but I donít want to get ahead of myself.


There is one other point to look at. Read some of the materials and start looking at the philosophy of the training. Technical Diving is a lot more mental than physical (though the physical stuff seems to beat you up more). Team concepts and indivual responsibility is highly stressed. Make sure you agree with some of the guiding philosophies. This is a purely personal decision you will have to make and it will evolve as you move forward into technical diving.
I have the Tec Deep manuals on the way; I have yet to find the IANTD literature.
I have also interviewed couple of instructors to see whom I feel most comfortable with and ask for tips as to prepare better for the class.

texdiveguy
08-29-2007, 00:16
For those of you familiar with both courses which one would you recommend and why?

IANTD Advance Nitrox or
DSAT Tec Deep Diver

I like to keep the discussion centered on the courses, rather than generalizations of the agencies. Also consider the instructors equally competent to teach the courses.

IMO.....I am not overly familiar with the full IANTD programs....I do know about the DSAT ones though....they are good. I persl. found that the TDI programing was better suited for me.....it was broken out in stages of progression....DSAT from start to finish is 3 core courses which I find a bit much to cram into a technical class. With TDI you can if you want take an Intro Tech class....then proceed to Adv. Nitrox,,Deco Proc.,,Extended Range,,Trimix,,Adv. Trimix....and of course Adv. Wreck-Cave-Rebreather programs. I would highly recommend if you have not already done so complete a rec. Rescue course.

http://www.tdisdi.com/index.php?site=2

MxDiver
08-29-2007, 00:50
I'm not taking the course locally, I will be taking a week off to do it, and so I want to take it all at once. I just followed the link and found out TDI offers the courses I'm looking for in Coz, which is where I'm going. I guess I can add them to the list of options. Thanks.

in_cavediver
08-29-2007, 05:27
First, the classes aren't equivalent. Advanced nitrox teached the basics of staged deco using 2 gases (max 50/50 withing rec limits (or 140', can't recall). The Tec Deep is closer the IANTD's tec nitrox class where you do full staged deco dives to 165'ish using O2 for deco.
I did not find any reference to an IANTDís tec nitrox class, I tried to match the two as evenly as I could, if you have a link to this course it will be greatly appreciated.


I just looked at IANTD's current site and its now just technical diver.

Lastly, with the drysuit. Technical divers sometimes use large, heavy steel tanks where the drysuit is used as much for redundant buoyancy as it is for thermal protection.

Any way you go, make sure you are comfortable with your instructor. Its like everything else, its the actual instructor who teaches you the skills.

MxDiver
08-29-2007, 09:11
I really can’t see spending $1000.00+ on a dry suit to use it as redundant buoyancy. Instead I will invest in a wing with two independent bladders.
As for the instructor I definitely want to be confident on his abilities and philosophy. I already ruled one place out because I saw them filling thanks identified as nitrox with regular air, when I questioned this they just said “Oh we don’t use these for nitrox anymore”, then I asked how come the stickers weren’t removed, they said they would do it later, for me that is lack of discipline, something that in my book doesn’t mix with tech diving.

RECDiver
09-07-2007, 18:18
I am IANTD Advanced Nitrox. You might also consider the NAUI Advanced Nitrox course. Both are good courses.

CompuDude
09-07-2007, 19:40
If you're doing technical diving in a wetsuit, I would consider doubling up some Al.80s rather than trying to do steel tanks without a drysuit, double wing or not.

Master Diver is a nice rating, but it's not the same as DM/OWSI or Cave, which is what in_cavediver asked about.

I could consider moving over to a bp/w rig. The Ranger is almost there, and you could probably add the Zeagle backplate and use the rest of your existing gear.

You need to do a bunch of dives in doubles, and learn doubles valve drills. I would do this before going further. Intro to Tech might be a good way to get exposure to the skills you're going to want to have dialed in, before continuing on to the Advanced Nitrox or deco classes.

texdiveguy
09-07-2007, 23:10
If you're doing technical diving in a wetsuit, I would consider doubling up some Al.80s rather than trying to do steel tanks without a drysuit, double wing or not.



Technical diving with steel tanks in the appropriate 'mil' wet suit with either a dual bladder wing or redundant stacked wing as I prefer is perfectly safe and very common. I never have understood the logic in those whom warn against it.....I have persl. with other technical divers executed a number of st. cylinder/wet suit dives fully protected as much as one can in a redundant inflation system.

ianr33
09-08-2007, 09:48
For those of you familiar with both courses which one would you recommend and why?

IANTD Advance Nitrox or
DSAT Tec Deep Diver


What % O2 do these courses certify you for?

The main reason I chose TDI Advanced Nitrox/Deco over IANTD was that with TDI I got a card for 100% O2. With IANTD it was only 80% which seemed kind of stupid.May have changed in the last few years?

The course and instructor were the same,just a different (better) card

MxDiver
09-08-2007, 10:21
For those of you familiar with both courses which one would you recommend and why?

IANTD Advance Nitrox or
DSAT Tec Deep Diver


What % O2 do these courses certify you for?

The main reason I chose TDI Advanced Nitrox/Deco over IANTD was that with TDI I got a card for 100% O2. With IANTD it was only 80% which seemed kind of stupid.May have changed in the last few years?

The course and instructor were the same,just a different (better) card

DSAT Tec Deep 100%
IANTD Advanced nitrox 50%
But in cavediver mentioned earlier Advanced nitrox is not the direct equivalent of the DSAT Tec Deep.

MxDiver
09-08-2007, 15:13
If you're doing technical diving in a wetsuit, I would consider doubling up some Al.80s rather than trying to do steel tanks without a drysuit, double wing or not.



Technical diving with steel tanks in the appropriate 'mil' wet suit with either a dual bladder wing or redundant stacked wing as I prefer is perfectly safe and very common. I never have understood the logic in those whom warn against it.....I have persl. with other technical divers executed a number of st. cylinder/wet suit dives fully protected as much as one can in a redundant inflation system.

Never considered stacking two wings, interesting approach.

woody
09-09-2007, 05:11
If your choices are only between IANTD and DSAT (PADI), I would go with IANTD. They are one of the original Tech Agencies out there and their Instructor requirements are among the toughest. That being said their materials are very comprehensive as well. I think that you would get an all around better education out of this program vs. the other. Before you decide on what gear to buy, please contact your instructor to be and find out if they have any special gear requirements or configurations. Will you be diving steel's or Al's. You might want to practice in what ever you will be tested in. Will your instructor allow you to dive in a double wing? You might want to ask before you buy. I have an instructor in Cozumel if you need. PM me and I'll forward his info.

MxDiver
09-09-2007, 14:28
Those are not the only choices, in this thread someone recommended TDI which also offers courses in Coz. I'm still weighting my options, Thanks for the offer on the instructor
PM sent
Regards

ianr33
09-09-2007, 15:05
One of the things I like about TDI is that the course progressions are simple and seem to make sense. Do Advanced Nitrox/Deco,get a card good for 150 feet and pure O2 for deco. Go dive a lot ,then do Trimix.

TDI manuals are pretty feeble,we read the IANTD ones as well!

texdiveguy
09-09-2007, 19:45
One of the things I like about TDI is that the course progressions are simple and seem to make sense. Do Advanced Nitrox/Deco,get a card good for 150 feet and pure O2 for deco. Go dive a lot ,then do Trimix.

TDI manuals are pretty feeble,we read the IANTD ones as well!

I am with Ian on the TDI programs....plus reading other agencies tech manuals....everything helps.

CompuDude
09-10-2007, 12:56
If you're doing technical diving in a wetsuit, I would consider doubling up some Al.80s rather than trying to do steel tanks without a drysuit, double wing or not.



Technical diving with steel tanks in the appropriate 'mil' wet suit with either a dual bladder wing or redundant stacked wing as I prefer is perfectly safe and very common. I never have understood the logic in those whom warn against it.....I have persl. with other technical divers executed a number of st. cylinder/wet suit dives fully protected as much as one can in a redundant inflation system.

"No steel with a wetsuit" is a general rule of thumb... a simplification. The biggest concern is being able to swim up your rig with a total wing failure. As long as you can do that, steel or aluminum doesn't make a difference, whether you're diving wet or dry.

I'm not a fan of double wings, however, although they have their fans.