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Beefcake
10-07-2009, 00:55
Some agencies require a certain number of dives for upgraded certifications. Do they really care if the dives are signed off by your dive buddy? I started out using the logbook / binder that came with my shiny new C-card last year, but I ran out of pages. Insead of buying refills, I bought a new log book that suits me better, and I'm sitting down tonight to clear the recent dives out of my computer. The funny thing is that the new logbook doesn't have a line for "Instructor / DM / Buddy" signature, which is fine with me since I don't really want to harass my dive buddies for signatures every day. Will this cause me any problems in the future getting upgraded certs? Obviously, anyone could forge a logbook anyway, and my LDS said he can tell who is lying by their skills so he doesn't require signatures; I just want to make sure this won't bite me later.

CompuDude
10-07-2009, 01:37
The only dives that should (technically) be signed off by an instructor or DM are certification dives (like OW, AOW, Rescue). All other dives just need to be logged in some way. And that's only for people who count dives.

navyhmc
10-07-2009, 04:31
Your log serves two distinct purposes IMHO:

1. To show that you have completed your training dives-in some cases, a DM/instructos signature may be desired.

2. To record your dives as you see fit. Your log is 90% for you. It let's you recall dives and helps you improve your diving in those aspects that you want to record. Personally, I use a paper logbook as well as a computer log that I download my dive computer to and then annotate it with the information I want to track: The where, when, how, who and sometimes why, PSI/cu ft used, depth, temps, conditions and most important to me what gear I used, what the plan was and what to change next time.

I did go a good number of years w/o logging dives, but these days, any charter you go on wants to know you've done some diving recently for their safety-another reason to log dives. Also, some specialties require a specific number of dives and the instructor for those specialties may want to see the log.

For the most part, the log is your's keep it as you want.

WaScubaDude
10-07-2009, 11:22
Your LDS is pretty savvy, as the best way to asses a divers ability is to watch them dive. Many dive ops in the tropics will take divers new to them on an easy first dive to see how good a diver they really are. Often you wont even know this process is taking place.

I have dove with divers who supposedly were instructors but their dive skills were lacking, so the show-me policy seems like a good one.

Lastly, Being a really good diver, ie; Arriving early with all your gear in order, setting up quickly, helping others as needed, listening well to dive briefs, exhibiting excellent buoyancy and dive skills, being able to shoot your own SMB, being really good on air etc, brings privileges. You may likely get to dive your own profile and wont have the dm baby sitting you on your dives.

Beefcake
10-07-2009, 14:03
Thanks for re-affirming what I was told. I wrote down who I was with on each dive, but I don't plan on getting signatures for every stinkin' dive unless its mandatory. Maybe I'll just have each of them autograph the front of my book once for posterity?

fire diver
10-07-2009, 14:59
I log dives for my own reference. I have had instructors and dive ops ask me how many dives I have made, but none have ever asked to see my log book.

navyhmc
10-07-2009, 15:05
I've had a few ask to see my log. When I had stopped logging for those many years, I would just show them my AOW card (1984) and tell the truth: I stopped logging dives years ago. Never had a problem.

rayaa3
10-07-2009, 16:28
I recently had to buy a new book because I filled my old one...

My wife is my buddy for 90% of my diving, and I never have her sign.

For the record, I have only seen one outfit ask to see log books. It was an outfit in Puerto Vallarta, who wanted to see you had 50 logged dives before they took you on a trip that was considered advanced (I can't remember the name of the dive site).

At any rate...I have no idea if they would get prissy about no signatures, but I can't imagine it.

Tekdivr
10-07-2009, 17:44
My wife and I actually had Sandals Grand Bahamas ask to see our log books. After viewing the last entry and our certification level we were able to bypass their little pool skills test. I kept telling her if they made us get in the pool before diving I was going to pretend to melt down during a mask removal drill just to see their reaction. Lucky for her that didn't happen. I stopped logging dives once I was in the 300's. Maybe I should at least continue jotting down the dive number and locale, just in case.

CompuDude
10-07-2009, 18:09
Thanks for re-affirming what I was told. I wrote down who I was with on each dive, but I don't plan on getting signatures for every stinkin' dive unless its mandatory. Maybe I'll just have each of them autograph the front of my book once for posterity?

Logging your dives is a very good thing. I keep a very detailed log and I'm very glad I do. I reference it frequently. Last time I dove a site, depth, what I saw there, who I was with, what exposure protection, how much weight, SAC tracking... all of these things are handy to have. For ME. Not for someone else.

I haven't been asked to see my logs in a long time, but I HAVE been asked to see it before.

My log is all electronic, however (outside of my first 50 dives or so where I kept paper logs). No signatures. No problem. This includes my dive number verification for DiveMaster and pro-level courses.

Get them signed if it's convenient and if it tickles your fancy. There's absolutely no requirement to have them signed, though, so it's not worth worrying about. I highly recommend keeping a log, however, signed or not.

Aquatrax
10-07-2009, 18:28
Thanks for re-affirming what I was told. I wrote down who I was with on each dive, but I don't plan on getting signatures for every stinkin' dive unless its mandatory. Maybe I'll just have each of them autograph the front of my book once for posterity?

Logging your dives is a very good thing. I keep a very detailed log and I'm very glad I do. I reference it frequently. Last time I dove a site, depth, what I saw there, who I was with, what exposure protection, how much weight, SAC tracking... all of these things are handy to have. For ME. Not for someone else.

I haven't been asked to see my logs in a long time, but I HAVE been asked to see it before.

My log is all electronic, however (outside of my first 50 dives or so where I kept paper logs). No signatures. No problem. This includes my dive number verification for DiveMaster and pro-level courses.

Get them signed if it's convenient and if it tickles your fancy. There's absolutely no requirement to have them signed, though, so it's not worth worrying about. I highly recommend keeping a log, however, signed or not.

I'm with CD on this one, having the dive information regarding exposure protection, weighting SAC etc.. comes in handy later. Also since my computer is downloadable, the effort is minimal.

clavicl3
10-07-2009, 19:19
My dive instructor led me to believe that logging is mostly for personal reference. I bet an instructor can get a better idea about your diving experience just talking to you than looking on the dive log anyways.

comet24
10-07-2009, 19:53
I never had an instructor ask to see my log book even through tec. classes but then a good discussion with the instructor can usually show more then a log. I have been asked to see my logbook for a charter but even that's been awhile.

Log what you want. Never had a buddy sign my logbook but I will note my buddies if I log the dive. I still log most dive but some I will sometime put a days worth of dive on one page. Some dives will have lots of info some just time, depth and location.

Okc_diver
10-07-2009, 20:51
I was wondering that same question. Back in Aug. I didn't fill my log out there at the lake I did it later. I called and he told me his number

Tassie Diver
10-07-2009, 21:01
If an instructor know you and the way you dive, they may not need to see your log before letting you do a course. However, if you turned up cold to an instructor to do an advanced course with a prerequisite for a certain number of dives, they may want to see your log. If it's not signed, I can't see it being an issue.

mitsuguy
10-07-2009, 21:49
we don't care if its signed or not... as an instructor myself, the only time I look at a logbook is when I need to know if a student has the prerequisite number of dives, or if they are doing a specialty with us that was already done on an Advanced course... the only ones that matter for PADI are rescue diver - minimum of 20 dives, only if PADI wasn't the agency used for OW/AOW, and then 20 minimum dives to start divemaster, 60 to complete, then, 100 for instructor...

I stopped logging once I hit 250 dives, which is the minimum for course director, which is a silly minimum anyways, there is almost no way possible to do all the other prerequisites for course director without doing closer to 500, maybe even 1000 dives... (for instance, all courses require at least 2 dives, and most require 4 or more - you have to have a minimum of 150 certifications, and even at 2 dives per cert, thats 300 dives AFTER you became an instructor - even if you only did the last dive of every certification you ever gave out ~instructor on the last dive of the course is the certifying instructor~, then you would still have 150 dives plus the 100 before instructor)

anyways, I digress...

I lost track sometime around 300ish, probably around 600ish right now...

clavicl3
10-08-2009, 00:00
You need 150 certifications for instructor? I didn't even know there were that many

mitsuguy
10-08-2009, 00:22
You need 150 certifications for instructor? I didn't even know there were that many

to become an open water instructor, you just need 100 dives or more... then, once you become an instructor, they really don't care about dives anymore and the focus switched to how many people you have trained... 25 certifications issued for master scuba diver trainer, then staff instructor (no more needed for staff), then master instructor is 150 certifications, then course director is none additional on top of master instructor...

Beefcake
10-08-2009, 01:55
Good discussion. I caught my log up last night, and I decided to do it my way. Some of my entries show gas usage; several discuss weighting (still working on optimum bouyancy); my recent ones discuss gear config and my new adventures learning to spearfish. Basically, I'm writing what is relevent to me and just noting who I dove with.

clavicl3
10-08-2009, 02:18
You need 150 certifications for instructor? I didn't even know there were that many

to become an open water instructor, you just need 100 dives or more... then, once you become an instructor, they really don't care about dives anymore and the focus switched to how many people you have trained... 25 certifications issued for master scuba diver trainer, then staff instructor (no more needed for staff), then master instructor is 150 certifications, then course director is none additional on top of master instructor...

Ahh, I see. you dive as you go up the ranks and the number of certifications is the number given out. I thought the instructor him/herself had to have 150 certifications before becoming an instructor.

jbanks27
10-08-2009, 15:20
There are certifications that require a minimum number of dives to certain depths and conditions. If you don't log your dives, you don't have any way of proving you meet the qualifications. There have been cases where dive operations want to see your log book to see when was the last time you were in the water. Some people only dive when they are on their vacation once a year.

I know that there is one certification that requires a minimum amount of bottom time. Not just dives.

rednose83
10-20-2009, 18:32
I asked my instructor and he said they don't have to be signed to take the next course- just logged. The dives also don't have to be instructor led. This is for SSI though.

theduckguru
10-20-2009, 20:01
One of the better dive operations I have been on provided a simple computer printed document with the DM's computer info.

It contained operator's letter head, date, depth, location, bottom time, water temperature and name of the DM.

Wish they all did this.

ThunderAce
01-01-2010, 15:10
Several reasons to keep your log book up-to-date & signed by your buddy:

#1 - You want to go-pro? To even enter the IDC you need to be able to prove you have done the required number of dives. I had my instructor and the Course Director both go thru my log book.
#2 - Okay, now you are an Instructor. Want to certify yourself so you can teach specialties? To self-certify, you need to be able to show PADI that you have completed the required number of dives (10) in that specialty. For example Night Dive Specialty Instructor. If you haven't recorded your time in & time out, how can you prove you have done ANY night dives?
For example, I recently went thru my dive logs and came up with:
10 Night Dives
47 Deep Dives
49 Boat Dives...
I haven't started counting my Dry-Suit dives yet but probably like 200 or so....
Keeping my log will make it very easy to become self-certified in those specialties. Without a log??? Might be tough.

Bottom line? Keep a good logbook. Get it signed by your buddies, they will be happy to sign it. Keep track of the details, not just bottom time and depth.

p.s. I just finished dive #224, New Years Eve day.

mitsuguy
01-01-2010, 16:50
One of the better dive operations I have been on provided a simple computer printed document with the DM's computer info.

It contained operator's letter head, date, depth, location, bottom time, water temperature and name of the DM.

Wish they all did this.

Um, well, problem with that is that it isn't accurate to what you did. If I were to do this with my customers, every one of them would show over an hour of dive time, when in reality most have 45-55 minute dive times. We provide, for those who want it, location, DM name and boat captain name, as required per Coast Guard regulations. Depth is each individuals preference, as is bottom time. Temperature also varies 0-5 degrees per computer.


#1 - You want to go-pro? To even enter the IDC you need to be able to prove you have done the required number of dives. I had my instructor and the Course Director both go thru my log book.
#2 - Okay, now you are an Instructor. Want to certify yourself so you can teach specialties? To self-certify, you need to be able to show PADI that you have completed the required number of dives (10) in that specialty. For example Night Dive Specialty Instructor. If you haven't recorded your time in & time out, how can you prove you have done ANY night dives?
For example, I recently went thru my dive logs and came up with:
10 Night Dives
47 Deep Dives
49 Boat Dives...
I haven't started counting my Dry-Suit dives yet but probably like 200 or so....
Keeping my log will make it very easy to become self-certified in those specialties. Without a log??? Might be tough.

#1 - You do NOT have to have the minimum required 100 dives to start the IDC or take the IE. You DO have to have minimum 100 dives to be certified as an instructor

#2 - You don't have to prove dive numbers to PADI. I have never seen them actually ask for proof of any of the above, other than a signature and checkmark saying you have completed the dives required. Also, your numbers don't add up. Each dive can only be counted as one specific specialty area. So, if you have 200 dry suit dives, 47 deep dives and 49 boat dives, that means you would have to have in excess of 296 dives. Each dive can only be counted towards one or the other. So, for most of those, you get to choose deep or boat or dry suit, not a combination.

Also, to self certify, you have to prove 20 dives in that certification area. To certify through coursework, you are required to have 10 dives in that certification area.

Time in and out are irrelevant, even for night dives. Right now, when I log a dive (I haven't logged dives since I passed 500 or so), but if I were to log a dive with a start time of 6:00 PM, would that be considered a night dive? Here it is dark, but a different time of the year or area 6:00 may not even be dark at all.

Also, on the same note, how do you prove you did a drysuit dive? Or a search and recovery, or a navigation dive? You don't prove it. They trust that you, as a hopefully responsible instructor, actually have the experience that you claim to.

PADI basically knows that if someone wants to fake a log and get around the requirements, that they will. Even if a buddy's signature is required, it still doesn't matter. Same thing with the Coast Guard when applying for a captains license. They don't really research you, they just trust you and the boat owner that you have done the time required.

RogerAg
01-01-2010, 17:31
I print out my own dive logs on Exact Gloss Coated 80lb 8 1/2 X 11 paper.
It is somewhat water repellent.

I took the best from other dive logs that I saw and put it on a sheet of my own.
Each Dive log is 5 1/2 X 8 1/2 half sheet and the back has my name address phone number and certification numbers. The rest of the back is for Comments. For most of my dives I also print out a cartoon that resembles the dive. By doing this, it makes my logging dives fun

I have been doing this since I first started diving. The logs go into a 3 ring binder that zips and when full I transfer to other 3 ring binders that go into my library.

sea princess
01-21-2010, 00:27
I think your dive log is most useful for you. I log all my dives because i like to be able to see what equipment i used, what heading i went out at, info on the sites, who i dove with, how the conditions were at that time and how my air consumption was. It is more like a journal of my diving adventures. I have had to show it when i went wreck diving and for proving number of dives for certain classess.

TxFltMedic
12-04-2010, 15:15
We were asked to see our dive logs at Sandals - Whitehouse in Jamaica. We printed the electronic logs with no signatures and had no problems at all with it...

bfmorgan
12-04-2010, 18:45
There were a number of references to electronic dive logs during this thread....is everyone using the dive log software that came with your computer or do some of you use a generic software application for logging diving information?

rawalker
12-04-2010, 22:48
My Wife and I each use Oceanic wireless AI computers and the Oceanlog software for them. It makes logging a quick easy download and the addition of location and any other personal data we want to add to the log.
When we've needed a hardcopy it is easy to print either an individual dive or a running dive summary.
I also keep a full hardcopy just in case.
I have been asked for log proof for dive instruction that required it and at times by dive ops to check that we had dived recently.
When I travel I always bring the dive summary printout as proof for dive ops along with a copy of my medical release from my last physical.

Smashee
12-04-2010, 23:02
There were a number of references to electronic dive logs during this thread....is everyone using the dive log software that came with your computer or do some of you use a generic software application for logging diving information?

I've used Diving Log (http://divinglog.de/english/home/index.php) for a while. S'nice.

Davetowz
12-05-2010, 00:02
For me, my log is kinda like a diary. The numbers mattered I gues when I was on the C-card trail.Once I hit PADI Master, I kinda slouched a lil. Just noticed I had my last 4 dives on the computer but not the log, I added them, but forgot the lil details I usually add in my log. I enjoy re reading my past dives and remembering some of them and it does help with my weighting to reference what I used with a certain gear setup before.

bfmorgan
12-05-2010, 14:07
Thanks, I will check it out

I've used Diving Log (http://divinglog.de/english/home/index.php) for a while. S'nice.