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Queen
07-12-2007, 12:50
I was chatting with some diving friends recently and we were discussing OW requirements. I was under the impression that PADI no longer requires an emergency swimming ascent during the check out dives, my friends said they thought it was still being done. Since I took my OW in'79 I'm not really up on what they're teaching new divers...anyone more current care to settle our discussion??

Vercingetorix
07-12-2007, 13:09
At NAUI OW at ST, we did a simulated emergency swimming ascent. We swam laterally for a distance while exhaling, not vertically.
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<DIV>EDIT: Lateral swim was in pool. I think we did a vertical in open water, but with reg in mouth.</DIV>

Queen
07-12-2007, 13:15
At NAUI OW at ST, we did a simulated emergency swimming ascent. We swam laterally for a distance while exhaling, not vertically.
I think I heard a newer PADI diver saying they did something like that in the pool sessions called "seesa"?

I'm guessing the spit-out-your-reg-at-30 feet-and-swim-up drill has become a thing of the past?

Blindref757
07-12-2007, 13:19
seesa = CESA = Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent

I did PADI a couple of years ago...and we did it in the pool from one end to the other. Instructor was outside the pool walking to check for constant stream of bubbles.

CompuDude
07-12-2007, 14:01
PADI no longer has students do REAL CESA drills like they did when I was certified in '87. Instead they simulate it, swimming horizontally or diagonally in a pool.

I think it's a shame, because doing a real CESA from 60' in my OW class really gives one the confidence to see how it can work in practice. And feeling the air expanding in your lungs as you rise is kinda neat. :) (not that it's something you should ever do outside of an emergency or initial training!)

Queen
07-12-2007, 14:06
Thanks for the replies everyone, I'll have to show my friends this thread (I was right! hee hee smileys/smiley17.gif).

texdiveguy
07-12-2007, 14:33
As late as 04' PADI would have you do a skill set in the pool/CESA....then we would do an actual one in the lake check outs. Now when I was originally certed in 1971 we did only 'manly' skills to pass the course!

woody
07-12-2007, 14:40
I'll have to check my PADI book, but I do believe that it is still required in their OW curriculum. Laterally in the pool for practice and vertically in open water from a minimum depth of 13' to 15'. No taking out the reg though. That part is a bad idea you are suppose to leave the reg in for a couple of reasons. <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Woody

Queen
07-12-2007, 14:43
I'll have to check my PADI book, but I do believe that it is still required in their OW curriculum. Laterally in the pool for practice and vertically in open water from a minimum depth of 13' to 15'. No taking out the reg though. That part is a bad idea you are suppose to leave the reg in for a couple of reasons. </span>
Woody</span>
Guess I'll hold off on showing my friends this thread until you check your book. smileys/smiley9.gif

Vercingetorix
07-12-2007, 14:49
Thanks for the replies everyone, I'll have to show my friends this thread (I was right! hee hee
<DIV>Queen, as a Pastafarian and true believer in the powers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, we are all your friends here. Given your FSM-ness, are you, by chance, also a Farker/Farkette? </DIV>

awmurray
07-12-2007, 14:51
Guess I'll hold off on showing my friends this thread until you check your book. smileys/smiley9.gif


I just finished OW certification through PADI this past Sunday and they do require a CESA (with reg in mouth) from about 20'.

Queen
07-12-2007, 16:43
<div>Queen, as a Pastafarian and true believer in the powers of the
Flying Spaghetti Monster, we are all your friends here. Given your
FSM-ness, are you, by chance, also a Farker/Farkette? </div>

Vercingetorix,


Sorry but nope, not a Farkette.



Yours in sauce,



Queen











I just finished OW certification through PADI this past Sunday and they do require a CESA (with reg in mouth) from about 20'.

Excellent, thanks for the VERY current info! smileys/smiley20.gif

awmurray
07-12-2007, 16:52
I just finished OW certification through PADI this past Sunday and they do require a CESA (with reg in mouth) from about 20'.

Excellent, thanks for the VERY current info! smileys/smiley20.gif


So how "safe" is CESA, anyway?

What I mean is, they tell you to always blow bubbles (to make sure you keep your airway open). So how much is "enough" air to let out?

I assume that if you are not letting enough air out based on your rate of ascent that the air would force its way out, right? The air taking the path of least resistance (out of your mouth) instead of rupturing something important (like a lung).

Or is it better (or necessary?) to blow a lot of air out and risk running out of air before you reach the surface?

CompuDude
07-12-2007, 17:03
So how "safe" is CESA, anyway?

What I mean is, they tell you to always blow bubbles (to make sure you keep your airway open). So how much is "enough" air to let out?

I assume that if you are not letting enough air out based on your rate of ascent that the air would force its way out, right? The air taking the path of least resistance (out of your mouth) instead of rupturing something important (like a lung).

Or is it better (or necessary?) to blow a lot of air out and risk running out of air before you reach the surface?
Your first assumption is correct. As long as your airway is open, expanding air will leave through the path of least resistance: Your mouth.

The dangerous part of a CESA comes from ascending too fast and risking the bends. But it's better to be on the surface, breathing, but bent, than drowned underwater, but not bent. One of those has a shot at survival.

woody
07-12-2007, 17:20
<DIV>


I just finished OW certification through PADI this past Sunday and they do require a CESA (with reg in mouth) from about 20'.
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I would go with that as the answer then.


So how "safe" is CESA, anyway?

In reality, well it #4 on the list of ascents and lets face it, better than drowning. But you have made a couple of mistakes before you got to the point of having to do it. Not monitored your air or your buddy.



What I mean is, they tell you to always blow bubbles (to make sure you keep your airway open). So how much is "enough" air to let out?

I go with a good hummmm. Not to soft and not to loud. All the way up.



Or is it better (or necessary?) to blow a lot of air out and risk running out of air before you reach the surface?


Part of why you are exhaling is for your body to expire the co2 build up. That build up is what make you want to breath, if you keep it low you will not have the desire to breath.
Ideally you would like to maintain as close to a 30' per minute as possible.
<DIV>Just my thoughts,</DIV>
<DIV>Woody</DIV>
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texarkandy
07-12-2007, 21:07
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CompuDude
07-12-2007, 21:41
Now when I was originally certed in 1971 we did only 'manly' skills to pass the course!
<div>1979... blow and go from 60 ft. "arg arg arg "</div>
<div>We were notas litigiousa society then.
Yup. It was "ahhhhhhhhh" from 60' for me in 1987, too.
</div>

ScubaToys Larry
07-12-2007, 22:40
<div>
<div>No matter, my daughter &amp; I are practicing the "buddy breathing" skill as well as the "alternate air source" in our home pool. I just think it's a skill she should know &amp; be practiced at, even if it's not taught in PADI OW class anymore.</div>
</div>

I'd actually like to talk you out of that. Keep in mind that buddy breathing was taught back in the day when we did not have octo's... that is why we did it. And there is a weird quirk about education, the things that are hardest, we worry about and work on the most - and remember better.

I've gone up to many students in my life, and spit out a reg, screaming underwater and asking for air. If they had ever learned buddy breathing - they have a tendency of handing me the reg out of their mouth. If not - they hand me an octo.

And in real emergencies - people don't give regs back - so then the fight is on.

And I know of at least one very tragic end that occurred when a father tried to teach buddy breathing to their off spring.

So I'd say work on alt air drills that she already learned, and just make sure she never dives without an octo.

For what it's worth....

MEL-DC Diver
07-12-2007, 23:03
Or you could just hang your octo on a bungee around your neck and when they grab your primary out of your mouth you can just plop the octo right on in.

awmurray
07-13-2007, 09:50
And in real emergencies - people don't give regs back - so then the fight is on.


Is this what the knife is for? smileys/smiley2.gif

frankc420
07-13-2007, 10:08
I was certified in June 06' and I wasn't required to do one. It may be based on who your instructor is?

texarkandy
07-13-2007, 13:04

awmurray
07-13-2007, 14:34
It is "another" method (as is sharing the primary instead of the Octo) and I'll note it is still in the PADI OW manual.



It is mentioned, but they also list CESA as preferred over sharing one primary.

And they don't actually practice doing it.

I guess the theory is you do what you train to do when the crap hits the fan. By practicing handing over the octo over-and-over that is what is drilled in. When panic hits, thinking tends to take a back seat and that's when the training/practice should kick in. I guess an actual emergency isn't the best time to be debating 'octo or buddy breathe?'.

And, of course, like Larry said if you hand over your primary to an "insta-buddy", you may not get it back. Again, that's what the knife is for, right?

CompuDude
07-13-2007, 14:46
Many instructors don't teach it anymore. It is still a fully viable option, and PADI-sanctioned. It's considered optional for teaching in class. We had to learn the skill to demonstration quality in my recent DiveMaster class.

I consider it essential knowledge, and that it should be practiced along with all your other emergency-management skills.

Paradicio
07-13-2007, 15:12
Finished my OW at the end of April, we covered both CESA and BB. I didn't realize BB was optional, but I'm glad we covered it.

texarkandy
07-13-2007, 15:32
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texarkandy
07-13-2007, 15:48
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TAH 73
07-19-2007, 19:23
It is mentioned, but they also list CESA as preferred over sharing one primary.



I would think sharing a primary would be preferred over a CESA at a significant depth - say 80 or 90ft? - if for some reason there were no "octo" available - or how about say, a malfunctioning Air2?

(that's a depth of coursewhich we have no intention of being at for quite some time - not intentionally anyway, but things can happen)</DIV>

I believe the CESA is promoted as being a viable option at 30ft or less.</DIV>

tc_rain
07-19-2007, 21:15
We did the CESA from 25' with the reg in the mouth, exhaling while swimming to the surface. The instructor held the B/C all the way up and watched to make sure you were exhaling.

cshel
09-09-2007, 20:59
My boyfriend just did this today in his final checkout dive! We are both YMCA certified by the same instructor (me 2 years ago). He did the CESA from 20' with the reg in the mouth, exhaling while swimming to the surface. The instructor followed him up and watched to make sure he was exhaling. We also had to do buddy breathing both with primary and with an alternate air source.

I was diving with 3 people who I met at the quarry. Two guys and another girl. We girls pared up but these guys ALWAYS do an out of air drill EVERY time they dive so when we were about 8 ft down, my buddy signaled me that she was out of air and I passed her my primary and I took my alternate. We took a few breaths and then she returned my reg. Then I signaled and she handed me her primary and took her secondary. The boys did the same exercise. I felt very safe diving with them even though I had never met them before. We had a great time!

DivingsInMyBlood
09-09-2007, 21:11
I took a padi ow cert. we did a Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent in the pool session, 1 in open water at 15 feet and another in open water dive 3 at 30 feet.

jwdizney
09-09-2007, 21:13
Guess I'll hold off on showing my friends this thread until you check your book. smileys/smiley9.gif


I just finished OW certification through PADI this past Sunday and they do require a CESA (with reg in mouth) from about 20'.

yep... i've been preparing for the OW class, and just finished watching my wife go through hers last month... there's a horzontal ascent in the pool and a vertical (cesa) in the big pond...

rktman26
09-09-2007, 21:19
We did the CESA from 25' with the reg in the mouth, exhaling while swimming to the surface. The instructor held the B/C all the way up and watched to make sure you were exhaling.

We did it exactly the same, except from 30'. We ascended on a bouy line (there was mild current), and the instuctor held onto our BC to ensure we didn't rocket to the surface, and look for bubbles.

The purpose of keeping the reg in the mouth is that as you ascend, you may be able to get another breath out of your tank because the surrounding pressure is less. Or so I've been told. In my limited experience, I haven't made THAT mistake.

Charlotte Smith
09-09-2007, 21:19
Frankie Meeks was our Padi Instructor last year and we did the seesa.....but then he did everything over the top ....we told him we wanted to be SURE we learned EVERYTHING.....although I think he would have taught us this way anyway...he is a good instructor.

Bring the Payne
09-10-2007, 20:50
In NAUI OW we didnt a simulated lateral swim for 30ft while exhaling and again in the OW checkout dive. Both times you kept the regulator in your mouth but had to exhale the entire time.